| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"The Fool" |
| Date: |
09 Dec 2005 11:10:22 PM |
| Object: |
narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
Narnia preaches from the movie screen...right? Well, no, actually,
there is no explicit religion on the screen.
Oh
Well, then, it must mention God a lot...right? Well, no, God is never
mentioned, directly or indirectly.
Oh
Well, surely, since it is being attacked as religious, it must be done
by a religious film company...right? Well, no, it is directed by the
director of Shrek, produced by the same company as Holes, Because of
Winn Dixie, and next year's Charlotte's Web. Finally, it is
distributed by Disney.
Oh
Then, how could it be seen as too religious? This film has a lion that
chooses personal sacrifice to save a guilty boy. So, one of the
following must be true...
1. Personal Sacrifice has become a religious concept only.
-if so, socialists have been preaching religion for years.
2. Anything done by a Christian author is automatically a Christian
product.
-if so, Lord of the Rings, X-Men, and many other stories are Christian.
or
3. Anything Christians suggest their members go to is too Christian.
-if so, every family friendly film that Christian reviewers approve is
Christian.
So, which is it? Or, is it just that this movie is revealing how deep
the anti-Christian spirit has already invaded and infected our culture.
Where was this anti-religious backlash when Ghandi, Shindler's List,
and Hidalgo came out?
Ken Clifton
christianjedi.com
christiancelebrity.com
somebodysaveme.com
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 01:32:34 AM |
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"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Narnia preaches from the movie screen...right? Well, no, actually,
there is no explicit religion on the screen.
You really are going for it with the whole Narnia thing at the moment,
aren't you?
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 03:26:55 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1134191422.413364.244180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Narnia preaches from the movie screen...right? Well, no,
actually, there is no explicit religion on the screen.
Oh
Well, then, it must mention God a lot...right? Well, no,
God is never mentioned, directly or indirectly.
Oh
Well, surely, since it is being attacked as religious, it
must be done by a religious film company...right? Well,
no, it is directed by the director of Shrek, produced by
the same company as Holes, Because of Winn Dixie, and next
year's Charlotte's Web. Finally, it is distributed by
Disney.
Oh
Then, how could it be seen as too religious? This film has
a lion that chooses personal sacrifice to save a guilty
boy. So, one of the following must be true...
1. Personal Sacrifice has become a religious concept only.
-if so, socialists have been preaching religion for years.
2. Anything done by a Christian author is automatically a
Christian product.
-if so, Lord of the Rings, X-Men, and many other stories
are Christian.
or
3. Anything Christians suggest their members go to is too
Christian. -if so, every family friendly film that
Christian reviewers approve is Christian.
So, which is it? Or, is it just that this movie is
revealing how deep the anti-Christian spirit has already
invaded and infected our culture.
Where was this anti-religious backlash when Ghandi,
Shindler's List,
and Hidalgo came out?
Who says that there's a backlash against Narnia? I've
not read of any, save for unspecified and unsubstantiated
charges from you.
And yes, there were critics of other fantasy movies like
LOTR. From what I've seen of it, it's awful. A friend who's
Tolkien-knowledgeable concurs with that assessment; the
director took Tolkien's story and butchered it, not only
omitting key elements, but, even more unforgivable, *adding*
elements to or even *changing altogether* elements of the
plot.
What's especially unforgiveable is that NPR did an excellent
radio play on LOTR in the 1980s that, while it had to omit
some things to fit the format, stayed quite true to both the
plot and the dialogue in the books. The NPR radio play could
have been used as the basis for the screenplay for the movie.
Secret Squirrel
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 09:19:08 PM |
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Secret Squirrel wrote:
And yes, there were critics of other fantasy movies like
LOTR. From what I've seen of it, it's awful. A friend who's
Tolkien-knowledgeable concurs with that assessment; the
director took Tolkien's story and butchered it, not only
omitting key elements, but, even more unforgivable, *adding*
elements to or even *changing altogether* elements of the
plot.
I'm a big Tolkien fan - have been since I was 12 - and I think the
movies were great.
A movie is not a book. There are certain things that work well in books
that don't in movies, and vice versa. A scene-for-scene recreation of a
book rarely makes for a good movie. You need to be creative - to try to
go back to the original impulses that drove the creation of the book,
and move forward to embody those impulses in cinematic form.
Yes, they made some changes when making TLoTR movies. But I didn't see
anything that violated the spirit of the original. I don't think any of
the changes were arbitrary, or pandering to a dumbed-down audience, and
I think they worked.
My only disappointment was that there were scenes from the book (such
as the Galadriel gift-giving scenes) that they had to leave out because
they simply didn't have time for them. Myself, I would have happily
watched six TLoTR movies made by Jackson - but probably that wouldn't
have been a commercial success.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
14 Dec 2005 05:46:45 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in
news:1134271148.842596.111240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
Secret Squirrel wrote:
And yes, there were critics of other fantasy movies like
LOTR. From what I've seen of it, it's awful. A friend
who's Tolkien-knowledgeable concurs with that assessment;
the director took Tolkien's story and butchered it, not
only omitting key elements, but, even more unforgivable,
*adding* elements to or even *changing altogether*
elements of the plot.
I'm a big Tolkien fan - have been since I was 12 - and I
think the movies were great.
A movie is not a book. There are certain things that work
well in books that don't in movies, and vice versa. A
scene-for-scene recreation of a book rarely makes for a
good movie. You need to be creative - to try to go back to
the original impulses that drove the creation of the book,
and move forward to embody those impulses in cinematic
form.
Yes, they made some changes when making TLoTR movies. But I
didn't see anything that violated the spirit of the
original. I don't think any of the changes were arbitrary,
or pandering to a dumbed-down audience, and I think they
worked.
My only disappointment was that there were scenes from the
book (such as the Galadriel gift-giving scenes) that they
had to leave out because they simply didn't have time for
them. Myself, I would have happily watched six TLoTR movies
made by Jackson - but probably that wouldn't have been a
commercial success.
Well, I disagree. Tolkien's forte is that he created a world
where the details intermeshed so well--gawd, he even invented
a language and writing for it--that *changing*, not just
omitting, the details of what happened can't help to do
violence to the plot. Nor do I buy the argument that "there
wasn't enough time" for all the key elements, as the movie
wasted LOTS of time in creating and developing scenes that
weren't in the book (Aragorn's near-demise with the Warg
Riders in the 2nd movie).
In fact, my acquaintance talked about that very event
involving Aragorn. You want to know *why* that scene was
really included? Well, he said that he saw an interview with
Peter Jackson, who mentioned that he thought that Warg Riders
were really cool-looking. So--if they're not included in the
story, we put them there. Jackson changed the plot because
Jackson thought Warg Riders are kewl.
The sad thing is--there *was* an exciting incident involving
Wargs in the book, one that easily could, and should have,
been included. That was just before the Fellowship was going
to the Mines of Moria, when the party was surrounded by Wargs
on a hilltop, and were beaten off largely by the efforts of
Gandalf. This is where the movie falls down, big-time. After
Gandalf falls in the Mines of Moria, if you didn't really
know the story, you might think that the biggest reason why
everyone's crying is because, well, everyone just loves the
lovable old coot. The book, and the NPR radio play as well,
shows that Gandalf was almost certainly the single most powerful
member of the party, and in not one but several instances likely
saving them all. Aragorn himself asked out loud "What hope do
we have without you?" This impression does NOT come out in the
movie.
And there are many other instances. So much of the plot involves
the battle of wits going on. In the movie, Aragorn loses the
battle for the palantir to Sauron, but continues on...well, just
because it's important. In the book, Aragorn *wins* and wrests
control of the palantir--and that's very important. By winning
this contest of wills, Aragorn convinces Sauron that he must be
the one who has the ring. This frightens Sauron into prematurely
launching his attack on Minas Tirith.
And let's not even go into the outright change of
characterizations. Why did Jackson do what he did to Faramir?
Faramir, unlike Boromir and Denethor, recognized the folly of
trying to use the ring. And he also significantly changed the
character of Elrond, I think, too; making him far more selfish
than the way he's portrayed in the book.
Are you familiar with the NPR radio series? Here's a link.
It was quite good, and quite faithful, which leads me to
conclude that all these alterations weren't necessary. In fact,
I ended up reading the books because of the radio series.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(1981_radio_s
eries)>
Secret Squirrel
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
14 Dec 2005 06:17:11 PM |
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Secret Squirrel wrote:
And let's not even go into the outright change of
characterizations. Why did Jackson do what he did to Faramir?
Faramir, unlike Boromir and Denethor, recognized the folly of
trying to use the ring. And he also significantly changed the
character of Elrond, I think, too; making him far more selfish
than the way he's portrayed in the book.
And now you see why the concept of canon evolved.
.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
15 Dec 2005 01:43:41 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
man_in_black529@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1134605831.679820.287440@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Secret Squirrel wrote:
And let's not even go into the outright change of
characterizations. Why did Jackson do what he did to
Faramir? Faramir, unlike Boromir and Denethor, recognized
the folly of trying to use the ring. And he also
significantly changed the character of Elrond, I think,
too; making him far more selfish than the way he's
portrayed in the book.
And now you see why the concept of canon evolved.
Very good observation, and very true!
Secret Squirrel
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 07:19:48 PM |
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Secret Squirrel wrote:
And yes, there were critics of other fantasy movies like
LOTR. From what I've seen of it, it's awful. A friend who's
Tolkien-knowledgeable concurs with that assessment; the
director took Tolkien's story and butchered it, not only
omitting key elements, but, even more unforgivable, *adding*
elements to or even *changing altogether* elements of the
plot.
Tolkien and Lewis both have this problem, namely that they
were against the very same crass consumerism Hollywood
markets.
.
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| User: "The Watch Dog" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 01:28:40 AM |
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Could you actually give us some references to these anti-Christian
critiques of the movie? Because you have previously informed us that
"liberals" would hate and be baffled by it. But, in fact, the
notoriously "liberal" San Francisco Chronicle, San Jose Mercury News,
and Santa Cruz newspapers, loved it.
Now, I KNOW that you will not take this as a reason to sit back, think,
and say, "Hmmm, maybe I was wrong. I couldn't predict what liberals
were going to say. Maybe I should apologize, and stop speaking for
liberals before they've even had a chance to speak for themselves.
Yeah...."
Because you don't do that. You ignore past errors, rather than learning
from them.
But your credibility about what other people - people different fom you
- is very low. And you tend to oversimplify. So can you please point us
to these critiques?
Of course, you can always find some guy on a blog somewhere to say
anything. But can you REALLY show us the overwhelming anti-Christian
sentiment out there - the one you can't even find in the SF Chronicle?
Frankly, the only so-called "Christian" thing about this movie that
bothers me is people like YOU, repeating over and over again, "See
that, liberals? It's a movie that's pro-Christian! Take that, secular
humanists! We WIN and you LOSE!"
I never knew that following the Prince of Peace led to gloating instead
of love. The motto is no longer "love thy neighbor," but "beat thy
neighbor" - at numbers, money, political power, and all the other
things that Jesus was so fond of.
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| User: "Dave Thompson" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 10:31:15 AM |
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"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1134199720.353985.66910@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Could you actually give us some references to these anti-Christian
critiques of the movie? Because you have previously informed us that
"liberals" would hate and be baffled by it. But, in fact, the
notoriously "liberal" San Francisco Chronicle, San Jose Mercury News,
and Santa Cruz newspapers, loved it.
Don't expect an answer anytime you ask for proof from this guy. Anyone with
any sense knows that when this guy makes some far fetched conspiracy claim
or some half assed premise based on an assumption that it's not true and he
doesn't have anything to support him.
I've gone round and round on many different subjects and he never provides
any actual support for his "facts" and always cuts and runs. It's gotten to
the point where he will never even bother answering my posts because I hold
him to the same questions each time. People here know he's a liar for
christ, and the ends justify the means no matter how low he has to go.
But the only way this guy will be held accountable is to keep piling on and
demonstrating to all the lurkers he is trying to proselytize to what a
ignorant untrustworthy fool he really is.
.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 09:18:26 AM |
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"The Watch Dog" <tirhuan@aol.com> wrote:
I never knew that following the Prince of Peace led to gloating instead
of love.
Then I'd say you're about 1,972 years behind.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: marna attacks reveals anti-Chrispin prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 02:52:47 AM |
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On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 01:28:40 -0600, The Watch Dog wrote:
Could you actually give us some references to these anti-Christian
critiques of the movie? Because you have previously informed us that
"liberals" would hate and be baffled by it. But, in fact, the
notoriously "liberal" San Francisco Chronicle, San Jose Mercury News,
and Santa Cruz newspapers, loved it.
Now, I KNOW that you will not take this as a reason to sit back, think,
and say, "Hmmm, maybe I was wrong. I couldn't predict what liberals
were going to say. Maybe I should apologize, and stop speaking for
liberals before they've even had a chance to speak for themselves.
Yeah...."
Because you don't do that. You ignore past errors, rather than learning
from them.
But your credibility about what other people - people different fom you
- is very low. And you tend to oversimplify. So can you please point us
to these critiques?
Of course, you can always find some guy on a blog somewhere to say
anything. But can you REALLY show us the overwhelming anti-Christian
sentiment out there - the one you can't even find in the SF Chronicle?
Frankly, the only so-called "Christian" thing about this movie that
bothers me is people like YOU, repeating over and over again, "See
that, liberals? It's a movie that's pro-Christian! Take that, secular
humanists! We WIN and you LOSE!"
I never knew that following the Prince of Peace led to gloating instead
of love. The motto is no longer "love thy neighbor," but "beat thy
neighbor" - at numbers, money, political power, and all the other
things that Jesus was so fond of.
And tax collectors.
Don't leave out the tax collectors.
Or sergeants.
Marvel at the Sergeant.
And as Jesus was saying to his wife,
Mary Magdalene [NLN], just the
other day, . . . .
And that's straight from the late Preacher Willie Martin who used
to quote (copy'n'paste) from _Holy Blood, Holy Grail_ which,
apparently, one of the strangest members of the Lunatic Fringe, a
guy named (well, actually, Fritz has enough names for a small city)
many, many names had liberated.
This is the same Fritz whose 3rd or 4th wife - named "Cisco"
(although I have no idea if that's a first name or last) is his
associate in mind control. She's very knowledgeable on
brain-washing because her father was one of the leading members of
the Illuminati or the Freemasons or the Baptists or one of those
and Dr Josef Mengele helped raise her.
Lest one thinks it's Friday night and Gray is known for having 2 or
8 gin and tonics (double lime [or "Lyme" - sigh]) on Friday nights,
take a look at this URL:
<
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2B%22Josef+Mengele%22+%2Bcisco
&btnG=Google+Search>
from that URL:
##########################
Web
Results 1 - 30 of about 761 English pages for +"Josef Mengele"
+cisco. (0.26 seconds)
Math Forum Discussions
Cisco claims that she was programmed by Nazi Doctor Josef Mengele
and her father, who was trained by Mengele in mind control
techniques. ...
mathforum.org/
Joseph Mengele
Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula by Fritz Springmeier &
Cisco Wheeler
.... Dr Josef Mengele is reputed by survivors of his experiments to
have ...
www.whale.to/b/mengele.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages -
Hence; the new master in the likeness of Josef Mengele. ...
Strangely, Ciscošs husband lived in another dwelling next to the
house, but did not seem to mind ...
www.whale.to/b/sp/au.html
Radio Interview with Cisco Wheeler, Former Illuminati Mind Control
.... Cisco Wheeler: Oh definitely. I am trying to think of where I
want to start. My primary programmer was Dr. Green, who was Dr.
Josef Mengele. ...
educate-yourself.org/mc/
Multiple Personality Disorder
Josef Mengele, himself an Illuminati with a long Satanic family
line, ... One of them is Cisco Wheeler, who is a co-writer of a
book which reveals the ...
educate-yourself.org/mc/multperdisorder28dec03.shtml
##########################
Of course, Willie Martin - who Scatboy Knight was bemoaning the
other day - is likely saving a place next to him in the 77th Circle
of Hell - Lucifer doesn't allow racist pigs, including "'Christian'
Identity" sickies, to get close to the bar where the Unitarians,
Ethical Culturists, Episcopalians, Primitive (but not "Southern")
Baptists and sorority girls from Ole Miss are drinking it up and
having a gay old time.
John "ScatBoy" Knight: sober for eternity. And "they" (and you know
how "they" are) are accused of not having sense of humor.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
Shockley's Exception to Godwin's
Law: When someone is quoting
hitler and/or "his" politics,
Godwin's Law is irrelevant.[b]
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
12 Dec 2005 11:12:40 AM |
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In article <1134191422.413364.244180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> "The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> writes:
Narnia preaches from the movie screen...right? Well, no, actually,
there is no explicit religion on the screen.
Oh
Well, then, it must mention God a lot...right? Well, no, God is never
mentioned, directly or indirectly.
Oh
Well, surely, since it is being attacked as religious, it must be done
by a religious film company...right? Well, no, it is directed by the
director of Shrek, produced by the same company as Holes, Because of
Winn Dixie, and next year's Charlotte's Web. Finally, it is
distributed by Disney.
Oh
Then, how could it be seen as too religious? This film has a lion that
chooses personal sacrifice to save a guilty boy. So, one of the
following must be true...
1. Personal Sacrifice has become a religious concept only.
-if so, socialists have been preaching religion for years.
2. Anything done by a Christian author is automatically a Christian
product.
-if so, Lord of the Rings, X-Men, and many other stories are Christian.
or
3. Anything Christians suggest their members go to is too Christian.
-if so, every family friendly film that Christian reviewers approve is
Christian.
So, which is it? Or, is it just that this movie is revealing how deep
the anti-Christian spirit has already invaded and infected our culture.
Where was this anti-religious backlash when Ghandi, Shindler's List,
and Hidalgo came out?
Who is attacking the movie?
-- cary
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| User: "*Peace of Christ*" |
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| Title: Re: narnia attacks reveals anti-Christian prejudice |
10 Dec 2005 10:25:19 AM |
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In article <1134191422.413364.244180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "The
Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
I have been caredully listening to and reading movie reviews, and I have
uet to hear anyone attacking Narnia because it is supposedly a Christian
movie.
Since you have been going on and on about this for days, perhaps you can
give is some URLs ti proce that your allegations are true.
--
*Peace of Christ*
http://grace.break.at
To send e-mail, remove "youhat" from address
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