on Wed 24 Oct 2007 05:15:33p
LMC Society <aegisigea@hotmail.com> posted
in news:1193271333.269837.219850@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
to an extent, maybe.
but, maybe that's not the reason.
maybe it's simply because US was, for over a century when the
crucial fundamentals were laid down, was mostly a protestant
nation. suppose US was 1/4 prostestant, 1/4 islam, 1/4 hindu,
and 1/4 buddhist/
shinto when it won independence. would the constitution
separating church and state have prevented religious/ethnic
wars?
today, would religious wars end in the middle east if there was
separation of church and state? there would be peace ONLY IF
people adhered to the principles of the separation. where there
is no clear majority group and every groups is deeply suspicious
of other groups, there is less chance of everyone following the
rules of the constitution.
in early america, most americans--protestants--accepted
separation of church and state because they knew that, even
without state sponsorship, their religion--protestantism would
prevail. but, if early american had been only 1/4 protestant and
rest something else, would the separation of church/state have
worked? would the founding fathers have favored it? would the
people have been willing to go along?
You're an idiot,
a deceitful propagandiser,
or maybe both.
First and foremost,
THERE IS NO CHRISTIAN GESTALT,
No One Christian Philosophy,
Under which this Nation Could Have Been Formed.
Your attempt to find a common denominator within
the schismatic spectrum that encompasses Christian Theory,
by narrowing it down to Protestant Sects,
fails at America's historic roots, to say nothing
of its callous disregard for the bit and pieces
of unique esoterica which comprise what the members of
many Protestant Sects believe to be the core proof
that their Personal Version (Per.Version)
is The Only Path To Salvation.
Firstly, one must consider what was Protestantism's nature
in Early America, and just a wee bit of study discovers
that it wasn't what passes for much of modern-day American
Protestantism. It was almost entirely Fundamentalist Anglican
(Puritans), Calvinists and Lutherans.
Quakers and even more so, The Anabaptists were considered to be
heretics. The Anabaptists were especially reviled for their
preaching that baptism could only be by immersion, and infant
baptisms were invalid, as a human had to freely choose for it to
stick. Roger Williams was threatened to be burned at the stake in
Massachusetts, and he was exiled, which is how he came upon
founding Providence, Rhode Island. Also of great note Regarding
Roger Williams was his adamant stand for religious liberty, which
was in no way predicated upon a Christian Civil Government:
"...It is the will and command of God,
that (since the comming of his Sonne the Lord Jesus)
a permission of the most Paganish, Jewish, Turkish,
or Antichristian consciences and worships, bee granted
to all men in all Nations and Countries: and they are
onely to bee fought against with that Sword which is
only (in Soule matters) able to conquer, to wit,
the Sword of Gods Spirit, the Word of God."
Roger williams, "The Bloody Tenent, Of Persecution
for Cause of Conscience", 1644
<http://tinyurl.com/287ubf>
"That ever I should speak or write a tittle,
that tends to such an infinite liberty of conscience,
is a mistake, and which I have ever disclaimed and abhorred.
To prevent such mistakes, I shall at present only propose
this case: There goes many a ship to sea, with many hundred
souls in one ship, whose weal and woe is common, and is a
true picture of a commonwealth, or a human combination or
society. It hath fallen out sometimes, that both papists and
protestants, Jews and Turks, may be embarked in one ship;
upon which supposal I affirm, that all the liberty of
conscience, that ever I pleaded for, turns upon these two
hinges--that none of the papists, protestants, Jews, or
Turks, be forced to come to the ship's prayers of worship,
nor compelled from their own particular prayers or worship,
if they practice any."
Roger Williams to the Town of Providence, Jan. 1655
<http://tinyurl.com/2hgcga>
Thomas Jefferson's "Wall of Separation between Church and State"
is found in his letter to The Danbury, Connecticut, Baptist
Association on 1 Jan. 1802, and was written after he had won the
presidency, in an effort to allay their fears of a coming state
religion. Jefferson cannot honestly be portrayed as the
originator of the concept though, as the idea can at least be
traced back over two hundred years before this, and into Europe,
as John Calvin was a proponent of the concept, as were many other
of the great thinkers during the American Colonial Period,
including Adam Smith, John Locke, and Montesquieu. Most of The
Founders understood why it was necessary to separate civil law
from religious canon too.
James Madison, often called The Father of The Constitution,
clearly
sated that American was not founded as a Christian nation,
and for a very good reason:
"It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment
on our liberties.... Who does not see that the same
authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion
of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease
any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion
of all other sects?"
James Madison, "Memorial and Remonstrance
against Religious Assessment” (1785)
/ -- / -- / -- / -- / -- / -- / -- / -- / -- /
Now, I will point out the darkness which lay at the very heart of
your argument. It is you own lack of faith in Christianity power,
which causes you to call for State sponsorship of it.
Are you honestly proposing the the legitimate Word of The Lord is
so weak and helpless that it will founder unless a corrupt Earthly
Government shores it up? It seems that you'd be well-advised to
leave politics aside, and concentrate on returning to the path
that you have obviously strayed from.
To help you on your way, I'll offer up some examples
of the abysmal differences in modern Protestant Theory
for you to excogitate over, and decide for yourself
which is The Truth.
**-----**-----**-----**-----**
**-----**-----**-----**-----**
Is There a Literal Hell That Exists Presently,
where Dead Sinners Now Suffer, or are Dead Sinners
dead and buried until Christ Returns to the Earth?
Can a True Christian Also be a Battlefield Soldier, willfully
seeking to kill humans, or should The Commandment "Thou Shalt Not
Kill", as well as the Words of Jesus In Matthew 5, Mark 10, and
Luke 18, plus the Writings of The Apostle Paul in Romans 13, be
understood as a literal prohibition?
Was Jesus' DNA as human manifest upon this Earth,
pure God seed, or did he inherit genetic material from Mary?
Is it a sin to Swear an Oath in the Name of Heaven or The Lord?
Matthew 5:34-37 - James 5:12
Will there be a millennium, and if so will it occur
before or after the 2nd Coming of Jesus?
Can Faith Alone be enough for one's salvation?
Are Faith and Actions necessary for Salvation?
Does True Faith compel Action?
Is there a justification for capitalism found in the Bible?
**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**
**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**-----**
These are but a few of the fundamental differences which can be
found within contemporary Protestantisms' multitude of sects.
There Is No Generalised Touchy Feel Good
One Way Christian Foundation of America.
It has never existed on Earth,
and it will never exist on Earth.
.
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