| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Stan de SD" |
| Date: |
19 Mar 2006 12:12:32 AM |
| Object: |
Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
"Steven L. Robinson" <srobin21@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wMmdnZKRsv2oeIHZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
French protesters give ultimatum to scrap job law
Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:57 PM EST
By Matthew Bigg and Kerstin Gehmlich
PARIS (Reuters) - Half a million protesters took to the streets across
France on Saturday to demand the scrapping of a new law they fear will
erode
job security, and trade union and student leaders gave the government 48
hours to comply.
For the good of the country, the government of France needs to tell these
groups to pound sand...
President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin would
"bear full responsibility for social tensions that might follow" if they
failed to meet the deadline, the leaders said.
Translation: Leftists will start throwing tantrums and breaking ***** while
blaming it on the government.
The marches were mostly festive and peaceful, but dozens of youths pelted
police with missiles, set a car ablaze and smashed a shop window at the
end
of the main protest in Paris. Police cleared them from Nation square with
many rounds of tear gas.
They should have clubbed them instead, and spared innocent bystanders from
being gassed.
She had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead, a reference to the "First
Job Contract" (CPE) the protesters oppose because it lets firms fire
workers
under 26 without explanation during their first two years on the job.
You mean employers wouldn't have to get government permission to fire
useless Froggies that they hired by mistake. Are the French students telling
us that they are so pathetic and worthless that they need government job
protection because they can't keep jobs once they get them?
.
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| User: "E A R T H L I N G" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 12:43:18 AM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
news:31da7$441cf605$45035f0b$4365@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Steven L. Robinson" <srobin21@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wMmdnZKRsv2oeIHZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
French protesters give ultimatum to scrap job law
Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:57 PM EST
By Matthew Bigg and Kerstin Gehmlich
PARIS (Reuters) - Half a million protesters took to the streets across
France on Saturday to demand the scrapping of a new law they fear will
erode
job security, and trade union and student leaders gave the government 48
hours to comply.
For the good of the country, the government of France needs to tell these
groups to pound sand...
President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin would
"bear full responsibility for social tensions that might follow" if they
failed to meet the deadline, the leaders said.
Translation: Leftists will start throwing tantrums and breaking ***** while
blaming it on the government.
The marches were mostly festive and peaceful, but dozens of youths pelted
police with missiles, set a car ablaze and smashed a shop window at the
end
of the main protest in Paris. Police cleared them from Nation square with
many rounds of tear gas.
They should have clubbed them instead, and spared innocent bystanders from
being gassed.
She had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead, a reference to the
"First
Job Contract" (CPE) the protesters oppose because it lets firms fire
workers
under 26 without explanation during their first two years on the job.
You mean employers wouldn't have to get government permission to fire
useless Froggies that they hired by mistake. Are the French students
telling
us that they are so pathetic and worthless that they need government job
protection because they can't keep jobs once they get them?
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
.
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
|
| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 02:51:19 AM |
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"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
news:31da7$441cf605$45035f0b$4365@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Steven L. Robinson" <srobin21@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wMmdnZKRsv2oeIHZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
French protesters give ultimatum to scrap job law
Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:57 PM EST
By Matthew Bigg and Kerstin Gehmlich
PARIS (Reuters) - Half a million protesters took to the streets across
France on Saturday to demand the scrapping of a new law they fear will
erode
job security, and trade union and student leaders gave the government
48
hours to comply.
For the good of the country, the government of France needs to tell
these
groups to pound sand...
President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin would
"bear full responsibility for social tensions that might follow" if
they
failed to meet the deadline, the leaders said.
Translation: Leftists will start throwing tantrums and breaking *****
while
blaming it on the government.
The marches were mostly festive and peaceful, but dozens of youths
pelted
police with missiles, set a car ablaze and smashed a shop window at the
end
of the main protest in Paris. Police cleared them from Nation square
with
many rounds of tear gas.
They should have clubbed them instead, and spared innocent bystanders
from
being gassed.
She had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead, a reference to the
"First
Job Contract" (CPE) the protesters oppose because it lets firms fire
workers
under 26 without explanation during their first two years on the job.
You mean employers wouldn't have to get government permission to fire
useless Froggies that they hired by mistake. Are the French students
telling
us that they are so pathetic and worthless that they need government job
protection because they can't keep jobs once they get them?
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the actual legislation
yourself, and tell us what's so wrong with it?
.
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| User: "E A R T H L I N G" |
|
| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 04:52:32 AM |
|
|
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
news:1f1ab$441d1b3b$45035f0b$7045@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
news:31da7$441cf605$45035f0b$4365@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Steven L. Robinson" <srobin21@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wMmdnZKRsv2oeIHZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
French protesters give ultimatum to scrap job law
Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:57 PM EST
By Matthew Bigg and Kerstin Gehmlich
PARIS (Reuters) - Half a million protesters took to the streets across
France on Saturday to demand the scrapping of a new law they fear will
erode
job security, and trade union and student leaders gave the government
48
hours to comply.
For the good of the country, the government of France needs to tell
these
groups to pound sand...
President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin
would
"bear full responsibility for social tensions that might follow" if
they
failed to meet the deadline, the leaders said.
Translation: Leftists will start throwing tantrums and breaking *****
while
blaming it on the government.
The marches were mostly festive and peaceful, but dozens of youths
pelted
police with missiles, set a car ablaze and smashed a shop window at
the
end
of the main protest in Paris. Police cleared them from Nation square
with
many rounds of tear gas.
They should have clubbed them instead, and spared innocent bystanders
from
being gassed.
She had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead, a reference to the
"First
Job Contract" (CPE) the protesters oppose because it lets firms fire
workers
under 26 without explanation during their first two years on the job.
You mean employers wouldn't have to get government permission to fire
useless Froggies that they hired by mistake. Are the French students
telling
us that they are so pathetic and worthless that they need government
job
protection because they can't keep jobs once they get them?
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the actual legislation
yourself, and tell us what's so wrong with it?
What did the French do to you?
.
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
|
| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 05:58:09 AM |
|
|
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in message
news:QJaTf.57693$Jd.15061@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
news:1f1ab$441d1b3b$45035f0b$7045@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in message
news:31da7$441cf605$45035f0b$4365@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
"Steven L. Robinson" <srobin21@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wMmdnZKRsv2oeIHZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
French protesters give ultimatum to scrap job law
Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:57 PM EST
By Matthew Bigg and Kerstin Gehmlich
PARIS (Reuters) - Half a million protesters took to the streets
across
France on Saturday to demand the scrapping of a new law they fear
will
erode
job security, and trade union and student leaders gave the
government
48
hours to comply.
For the good of the country, the government of France needs to tell
these
groups to pound sand...
President Jacques Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin
would
"bear full responsibility for social tensions that might follow" if
they
failed to meet the deadline, the leaders said.
Translation: Leftists will start throwing tantrums and breaking *****
while
blaming it on the government.
The marches were mostly festive and peaceful, but dozens of youths
pelted
police with missiles, set a car ablaze and smashed a shop window at
the
end
of the main protest in Paris. Police cleared them from Nation square
with
many rounds of tear gas.
They should have clubbed them instead, and spared innocent bystanders
from
being gassed.
She had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead, a reference to the
"First
Job Contract" (CPE) the protesters oppose because it lets firms fire
workers
under 26 without explanation during their first two years on the
job.
You mean employers wouldn't have to get government permission to fire
useless Froggies that they hired by mistake. Are the French students
telling
us that they are so pathetic and worthless that they need government
job
protection because they can't keep jobs once they get them?
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the actual
legislation
yourself, and tell us what's so wrong with it?
What did the French do to you?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the actual legislation
yourself, and tell us what's so wrong with it?
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 12:20:03 PM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote:
She had "No to the CPE" written on her forehead, a reference to the
"First
Job Contract" (CPE) the protesters oppose because it lets firms fire
workers
under 26 without explanation during their first two years on the
job.
You mean employers wouldn't have to get government permission to fire
useless Froggies that they hired by mistake. Are the French students
telling
us that they are so pathetic and worthless that they need government
job
protection because they can't keep jobs once they get them?
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the actual
legislation
yourself, and tell us what's so wrong with it?
What did the French do to you?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the actual legislation
yourself, and tell us what's so wrong with it?
Since no one seems willing to read a news story to find such things
out for themselves, I did:
http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/article_view.asp?menu=A11100&no=279060&rel_no=1&back_url=
<This law applies to those under 26 years of age who find a new job. It
< gives the employer the right to terminate the new hire's employment
< within two years without having to give any reason. Under French law,
< the employer has only a month to terminate the employment of a new
< employee who is 26 or older without having to provide a reason. After
< that, French labor law provides protection for the employee so that
< employment isn't ended without objective cause.
<
<...
<The new law, however, takes a very different approach to the high rate
< of youth unemployment. It is based on an initiative introduced by the
< French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin. It provides that those
< under 26 who work for companies with more than 20 employees can be
< dismissed from their employment in the first two years without any
< reason given for their termination. Students and others who oppose
< the law say that this treats them in a discriminatory way. Not only
< is it normally difficult to get a job, but under this new law, an
< employer will have an incentive to end their employment before the
< two years are up and hire another employee who is under 26. For those
< seeking jobs who are 26 or over, this new law provides an incentive
< for employers to give preference to younger workers who can be hired
< and then fired as a new form of temporary employment.
<
<Last August a similar law was put into effect by Executive Mandate
< that applied only to employers with less than 20 paid employees.
< Under this law, known as the CNE, (in French "Contrat Nouvelle
< Embauche") a small employer can hire and dismiss people before they
< have worked for the employer for two years without having to provide
< a reason for the dismissal. There are many instances of workers
< protesting they lost their jobs unfairly under this law. The very
< competitive pressures that leads employers to desire such flexibility
< to hire and fire at will, also is a pressure on the employer to
< terminate a new worker before the two years are up and to hire
< someone else who is not covered by the labor laws. The new labor law,
< the CPE, is modeled on the CNE, but applies to larger employers.
Thus, what appears to be "wrong with it" is that it discriminates on
the basis of age, treating those over 26 under different rules than it
treats those over 26. Of course one could argue that the prior law
also discriminated on the basis of age, since there were different
rules before the law was passed.
There also seems to be protests based on the way it was passed, using
a French constitutional provision that allowed the French Senate to
pass the law without significant public debate, thereby excluding the
students affected from involvement prior to the law being passed. We
thus see the French equivalent of "taxation without representation".
We also see that the law says NOTHING about an employer "having to get
permission from the government" to fire someone, or not having to do
so. The question is whether they can fire without stated cause, and
it is the age differential that makes the law especially
problematical, since it promotes the firing of someone with less than
2 years without cause so that they do not become covered by
protections available to those employed longer. But only if they are
under 26. Those over 26 are protected from day 1.
The regulation distorts the labor market in ways that may or may not
be positive, as stated above. It may reduce unemployment numbers, or
it may just cause shuffling of the employment deck. If Stan is
correct about his implications about the inherent weakness of the
French economy, then shuffling seems the more likely result, and thus
the students are justified in protesting.
There is no evidence in the article's description of the law that
"French students are so pathetic and worthless that they need
government job protection because they can't keep jobs once they get
them?" Instead, the law provides incentive for an employer to get rid
of even a competent and useful employee, provided that he is easily
replaceable (which is likely to be the case for almost all jobs held
by those under 26), because it provides flexibility to the employer to
do so.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 09:58:39 PM |
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"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
news:QJaTf.57693$Jd.15061@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in
message
news:1f1ab$441d1b3b$45035f0b$7045@msgid.meganewsservers.com.
..
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the
actual legislation yourself, and tell us what's so wrong
with it?
What did the French do to you?
It's the French Revolution, as far as I can tell. American
conservatives have never forgiven the French for it.
Secret Squirrel
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.
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
19 Mar 2006 10:04:46 PM |
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"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in message
news:89XQ2PSB38795.9164236111@anonymous.poster...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
news:QJaTf.57693$Jd.15061@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in
message
news:1f1ab$441d1b3b$45035f0b$7045@msgid.meganewsservers.com.
..
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the
actual legislation yourself, and tell us what's so wrong
with it?
What did the French do to you?
It's the French Revolution, as far as I can tell. American
conservatives have never forgiven the French for it.
The French Revolution resulted in massive bloodshed and tyranny - a good
reason not to admire it.
.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
20 Mar 2006 11:54:10 AM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in
news:ed91f$441e298e$45035f0b$5349@msgid.meganewsservers.com:
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in
message news:89XQ2PSB38795.9164236111@anonymous.poster...
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
news:QJaTf.57693$Jd.15061@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote
in message
news:1f1ab$441d1b3b$45035f0b$7045@msgid.meganewsservers.c
om. ..
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the
actual legislation yourself, and tell us what's so
wrong with it?
What did the French do to you?
It's the French Revolution, as far as I can tell. American
conservatives have never forgiven the French for it.
The French Revolution resulted in massive bloodshed and
tyranny - a good reason not to admire it.
"Massive bloodshed and tyranny?"-- you mean, like compared
to what? The Ancient Regime, year after year, decade after
decade?
(Aaaah, but those murders were just of mere *peasants*, not
nobles, eh? So they must not really count, right?)
Secret Squirrel
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
20 Mar 2006 06:35:19 PM |
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"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in message
news:B46Y5RC938796.4959490741@anonymous.poster...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in
news:ed91f$441e298e$45035f0b$5349@msgid.meganewsservers.com:
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in
message news:89XQ2PSB38795.9164236111@anonymous.poster...
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
news:QJaTf.57693$Jd.15061@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote
in message
news:1f1ab$441d1b3b$45035f0b$7045@msgid.meganewsservers.c
om. ..
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
message
news:a47Tf.54982$H71.39101@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Why are you so bitter? What did the French do?
Why must you lie, and why are you afraid to discuss the
actual legislation yourself, and tell us what's so
wrong with it?
What did the French do to you?
It's the French Revolution, as far as I can tell. American
conservatives have never forgiven the French for it.
The French Revolution resulted in massive bloodshed and
tyranny - a good reason not to admire it.
"Massive bloodshed and tyranny?"-- you mean, like compared
to what? The Ancient Regime, year after year, decade after
decade?
How the left justifies despotism - "well, somebody else did it in the past".
:O|
.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
21 Mar 2006 12:17:03 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in
news:5595b$441f49f4$45035f0b$16263@msgid.meganewsservers.com:
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in
message news:B46Y5RC938796.4959490741@anonymous.poster...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@covad.net> wrote in
news:ed91f$441e298e$45035f0b$5349@msgid.meganewsservers.com
:
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote
in message
news:89XQ2PSB38795.9164236111@anonymous.poster...
"E A R T H L I N G" <again-never@bush.net> wrote in
news:QJaTf.57693$Jd.15061@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
What did the French do to you?
It's the French Revolution, as far as I can tell.
American conservatives have never forgiven the French
for it.
The French Revolution resulted in massive bloodshed and
tyranny - a good reason not to admire it.
"Massive bloodshed and tyranny?"-- you mean, like compared
to what? The Ancient Regime, year after year, decade after
decade?
How the left justifies despotism - "well, somebody else did
it in the past".
:O|
Uh, Spam. You wanna talk history? You wanna talk history?
What regime exactly was it that preceeded the French
Revolution? What was the real alternative in its absence?
*And*, mind you, the original French Revolution was quite
conservative--the revolutionaries were content to set up a
constitutional monarchy, not unlike England's, with a
legislative assembly.
What turned the revolution violent and ugly was the fact
that Louis's royal pals elsewhere across Europe wouldn't
stand for that sort of thing, and decided--with Louis's
consent and encouragement, mind you--to send armies into
France to put him back on the throne as a absolute monarch.
That precipitated war, and in the tensions of war the more
violent and radical voices carry more weight. It was the
fact that *conservative* Europe forced war upon France
that turned what likely might have been a peaceful,
constitutional, revolution into a paranoid one, always
on the lookout for "enemies of the people". Also, France's
unexpected success in the war made heros out of military
leaders and gave them political clout (Napoleon, anyone?).
That makes you--and Edmund Burke too--wrong about this.
It was the conservative reaction that turned the French
revolution ugly; it wasn't so at the start.
But I'm glad to see one thing: your unabashed enthusiasm for
absolutist statism. Most conservatives try to hide that,
you know.
Secret Squirrel
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
20 Mar 2006 01:45:04 PM |
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Secret Squirrel wrote:
The French Revolution resulted in massive bloodshed and
tyranny - a good reason not to admire it.
"Massive bloodshed and tyranny?"-- you mean, like compared
to what? The Ancient Regime, year after year, decade after
decade?
(Aaaah, but those murders were just of mere *peasants*, not
nobles, eh? So they must not really count, right?)
I personally think Stain de STD has a problem with
reading about Napoleon in history textbooks so he
can't help but realize he isn't Napoleon.
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: French protesters give govt ultimatum |
20 Mar 2006 06:33:57 PM |
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<man_in_black529@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142883904.686792.221900@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Secret Squirrel wrote:
The French Revolution resulted in massive bloodshed and
tyranny - a good reason not to admire it.
"Massive bloodshed and tyranny?"-- you mean, like compared
to what? The Ancient Regime, year after year, decade after
decade?
(Aaaah, but those murders were just of mere *peasants*, not
nobles, eh? So they must not really count, right?)
I personally think Stain de STD has a problem with
reading about Napoleon in history textbooks so he
can't help but realize he isn't Napoleon.
I personally think you string along ramdom words into sentences, hoping they
will have meaning.
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