| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"CB" |
| Date: |
31 Mar 2004 10:06:39 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
"RobertVB" <nospam@4me.com> wrote in message
news:c4f1da$b6n$2@216.39.173.68...
In article <c4epbe$d39$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>, CB
<CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
"Martin McPhillips" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ORdac.16314$DV6.15171@twister.nyc.rr.com...
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:1fph60p8qfuu4eslkgee5imb6jelcmkb1q@4ax.com...
"Martin McPhillips" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:0mbh60p29818jnd0d25jgcj7rrd42rnvr0@4ax.com...
Not really.... Our legal system is based on principals that
pre-date
the invention of Christianity. Further, many other religions
also
played a role in shaping western civilisation.
I didn't say anything about our legal system.
The United States is first and foremost a legal institution.
No it's not. The United States is first and foremost
an example of Western Civilization.
There is no such animal. It is a figment of ivory-tower
intellectuals.
The United States came into existence when it was recognized as a
legal entity for purposes of international law by France and the
Netherlands.
Bob lives in a postmodern hell concocted by ivory-tower
intellectuals and calls Western Civilization a concoction
of ivory-tower intellectuals. That's a pretty impressive
up is down effort for an ignorant rube, Bob.
That 'is' Liberalism in a nut (case) shell.
Homosexual behavior to Liberals has the same moral equivalence as
natural
(hetro) affections. Bob in a post above attempted to compare the sin of
the
homosexual to the sin of adultery and accused me of being a hypocrite
because I don't chastise them. It's the same argument that these people
used
in justifying lies told under oath of the Impeached One, "everyone does
it
so why hold anyone accountable for anything"? Pathetic.
Rambling CB.
Liberalism is so out of touch with 'right and wrong' because of the
insistence that everything be equal.
Actually liberals have a very good sense of 'right and wrong' it is the
conservatives that are in a brain-freeze over it. Oh, they THINK they
know right and wrong but only because they parrot what they are told to
parrot.
"You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I
suggest
there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down.
Up
to man's age-old dream-the maximum of individual freedom consistent with
order or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism.
Hmmm and who is trying to force others to live by their rules? The
neocons? Gosh so the right is really 'down.
The 10 Commandments are rules to live ones life by. As inherently sinners we
cannot possibly live up to the letter of any law but the constant fight to
do God's will should be every man's quest.
Regardless of their
sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom
for
security have embarked on this downward path."
HAHAHAHAHHA you just put up a quote that supports the left and
castigates the current right! ;)
Reagan knows with freedom comes responsibility. The downward path he's
speaking of is the ever increasing laws written to protect the law abiding
from those who take Liberty to mean the lack of moral restraint.
"He who is void of virtuous attachments in private life is, or very soon
will be, void of all regard for his country."
--Samuel Adams
....the very need for security is due to the few who cannot control their own
lust for power.
Reagan is correct. Security doesn't restrain the lawless, it restrains the
law abiding.
.
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
01 Apr 2004 10:08:42 AM |
|
|
In article <c4g4gd$1nb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<
<
<"RobertVB" <nospam@4me.com> wrote in message
<news:c4f1da$b6n$2Ž.39.173.68...
{...}
<>
<> HAHAHAHAHHA you just put up a quote that supports the left and
<> castigates the current right! ;)
<
<Reagan knows with freedom comes responsibility. The downward path he's
<speaking of is the ever increasing laws written to protect the law abiding
<from those who take Liberty to mean the lack of moral restraint.
According to the Bible, Reagan embarked on that very same downward
path twenty years ago, when as a divorcee he married Nancy. Jesus
tells us that this is adultery, and Paul tells us that and adulterer
like Reagan will no more go to heaven than will Reagan's gay son.
Of course this doesn't prevent CB from quoting the hell-bound Reagan
as a moral exemplar -- because CB appears to think Jesus got this
one wrong. Or else CB simply doesn't care -- Reagan's straight,
so his mortal sins "don't count" somehow.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
01 Apr 2004 11:56:53 AM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4heqa$e35$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <c4g4gd$1nb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
writes:
<
<
<"RobertVB" <nospam@4me.com> wrote in message
<news:c4f1da$b6n$2Z.39.173.68...
{...}
<>
<> HAHAHAHAHHA you just put up a quote that supports the left and
<> castigates the current right! ;)
<
<Reagan knows with freedom comes responsibility. The downward path he's
<speaking of is the ever increasing laws written to protect the law
abiding
<from those who take Liberty to mean the lack of moral restraint.
According to the Bible, Reagan embarked on that very same downward
path twenty years ago, when as a divorcee he married Nancy. Jesus
tells us that this is adultery, and Paul tells us that and adulterer
like Reagan will no more go to heaven than will Reagan's gay son.
Of course this doesn't prevent CB from quoting the hell-bound Reagan
as a moral exemplar -- because CB appears to think Jesus got this
one wrong. Or else CB simply doesn't care -- Reagan's straight,
so his mortal sins "don't count" somehow.
You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is brutal
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
01 Apr 2004 12:42:22 PM |
|
|
In article <c4hl55$smr$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4heqa$e35$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<>
<> In article <c4g4gd$1nb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
<writes:
<> <
<> <
<> <"RobertVB" <nospam@4me.com> wrote in message
<> <news:c4f1da$b6n$2Z.39.173.68...
<>
<> {...}
<>
<> <>
<> <> HAHAHAHAHHA you just put up a quote that supports the left and
<> <> castigates the current right! ;)
<> <
<> <Reagan knows with freedom comes responsibility. The downward path he's
<> <speaking of is the ever increasing laws written to protect the law
<abiding
<> <from those who take Liberty to mean the lack of moral restraint.
<>
<> According to the Bible, Reagan embarked on that very same downward
<> path twenty years ago, when as a divorcee he married Nancy. Jesus
<> tells us that this is adultery, and Paul tells us that and adulterer
<> like Reagan will no more go to heaven than will Reagan's gay son.
<>
<> Of course this doesn't prevent CB from quoting the hell-bound Reagan
<> as a moral exemplar -- because CB appears to think Jesus got this
<> one wrong. Or else CB simply doesn't care -- Reagan's straight,
<> so his mortal sins "don't count" somehow.
<
<You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is brutal
Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same fashion,
you're nobly protecting society from itself.
How is that the case?
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
01 Apr 2004 09:59:43 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <c4hl55$smr$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
writes:
<
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4heqa$e35$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<>
<> In article <c4g4gd$1nb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB"
<CB@prayforme.com>
<writes:
<> <
<> <
<> <"RobertVB" <nospam@4me.com> wrote in message
<> <news:c4f1da$b6n$2Z.39.173.68...
<>
<> {...}
<>
<> <>
<> <> HAHAHAHAHHA you just put up a quote that supports the left and
<> <> castigates the current right! ;)
<> <
<> <Reagan knows with freedom comes responsibility. The downward path he's
<> <speaking of is the ever increasing laws written to protect the law
<abiding
<> <from those who take Liberty to mean the lack of moral restraint.
<>
<> According to the Bible, Reagan embarked on that very same downward
<> path twenty years ago, when as a divorcee he married Nancy. Jesus
<> tells us that this is adultery, and Paul tells us that and adulterer
<> like Reagan will no more go to heaven than will Reagan's gay son.
<>
<> Of course this doesn't prevent CB from quoting the hell-bound Reagan
<> as a moral exemplar -- because CB appears to think Jesus got this
<> one wrong. Or else CB simply doesn't care -- Reagan's straight,
<> so his mortal sins "don't count" somehow.
<
<You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is brutal
Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
fashion,
you're nobly protecting society from itself.
How is that the case?
The time tested history of Humanity
.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
01 Apr 2004 10:00:33 PM |
|
|
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is brutal
Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
fashion,
you're nobly protecting society from itself.
How is that the case?
The time tested history of Humanity
....and it's moral authority
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bard Kesnit" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 05:07:03 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is brutal
Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
fashion,
you're nobly protecting society from itself.
How is that the case?
The time tested history of Humanity
...and it's moral authority
Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
church says gays are evil, fine.
We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
other words, the government.
Bard Kesnit
.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 10:54:26 AM |
|
|
"Bard Kesnit" <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
news:g7iq60dmef9jbjcr4af6gvtnphomre1e08@4ax.com...
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is
brutal
Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
fashion,
you're nobly protecting society from itself.
How is that the case?
The time tested history of Humanity
...and it's moral authority
Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
church says gays are evil, fine.
We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
other words, the government.
Bard Kesnit
You forget "we the people" are the government and as such have every right
to establish moral behavioral standards/laws.
Somehow the courts have become renegade to the Legislative mandates and
instead of executing the law as written have circumvented the law using
contemporary, political, lifestyle will.
One of the reasons Liberals have lost elections to Republicans for the last
few cycles 'is' because WE are sick of the courts imposing cultural changes
WE do not want!
"The Courts must declare the sense of the law; and if they should be
disposed to exercise will instead of judgment, the consequences would be
the substitution of their pleasure for that of the legislative body.
--The Federalist No. 78
CB
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fritz" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
05 Apr 2004 03:24:02 AM |
|
|
CB wrote:
"Bard Kesnit" <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
news:g7iq60dmef9jbjcr4af6gvtnphomre1e08@4ax.com...
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is
brutal
Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
fashion,
you're nobly protecting society from itself.
How is that the case?
The time tested history of Humanity
...and it's moral authority
Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
church says gays are evil, fine.
We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
other words, the government.
Bard Kesnit
You forget "we the people" are the government and as such have every right
to establish moral behavioral standards/laws.
And as much as you'd like to forget it, "we the people" includes
gays too.
Somehow the courts have become renegade to the Legislative mandates and
instead of executing the law as written have circumvented the law using
contemporary, political, lifestyle will.
What you're really saying is that the courts disagree with you.
That's the reason we have courts, for disagreements.
One of the reasons Liberals have lost elections to Republicans for the last
few cycles 'is' because WE are sick of the courts imposing cultural changes
WE do not want!
I thought it had to do with money.
"The Courts must declare the sense of the law; and if they should be
disposed to exercise will instead of judgment, the consequences would be
the substitution of their pleasure for that of the legislative body.
They don't disagree with you all the time, just when you're wrong.
--
Fritz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religion = tyranny.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 10:57:42 AM |
|
|
In article <c4k5s1$1qv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<
<
<"Bard Kesnit" <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
<news:g7iq60dmef9jbjcr4af6gvtnphomre1e08@4ax.com...
<> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
<>
<> >
<> >"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
<> >news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
<> >>
<> >> "Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<> >> news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> >
<> >> > <You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is
<brutal
<> >> >
<> >> >
<> >> > Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn someone
<> >> > for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
<> >> fashion,
<> >> > you're nobly protecting society from itself.
<> >> >
<> >> > How is that the case?
<> >>
<> >> The time tested history of Humanity
<> >
<> >...and it's moral authority
<> >
<>
<> Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
<> about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
<> church says gays are evil, fine.
<>
<> We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
<> other words, the government.
<>
<> Bard Kesnit
<
< You forget "we the people" are the government and as such have every right
< to establish moral behavioral standards/laws.
And you forget that "we the people" have often fucked the pooch in
attempting to do so -- witness laws supporting slavery, laws
forbidding inter-racial marriage, laws forbiding oral sex.
This amendment would be yet another example.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 11:30:30 AM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4k626$rpp$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <c4k5s1$1qv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
writes:
<
<
<"Bard Kesnit" <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
<news:g7iq60dmef9jbjcr4af6gvtnphomre1e08@4ax.com...
<> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
<>
<> >
<> >"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
<> >news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
<> >>
<> >> "Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<> >> news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> >
<> >> > <You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is
<brutal
<> >> >
<> >> >
<> >> > Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn
someone
<> >> > for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
<> >> fashion,
<> >> > you're nobly protecting society from itself.
<> >> >
<> >> > How is that the case?
<> >>
<> >> The time tested history of Humanity
<> >
<> >...and it's moral authority
<> >
<>
<> Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
<> about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
<> church says gays are evil, fine.
<>
<> We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
<> other words, the government.
<>
<> Bard Kesnit
<
< You forget "we the people" are the government and as such have every
right
< to establish moral behavioral standards/laws.
And you forget that "we the people" have often fucked the pooch in
attempting to do so -- witness laws supporting slavery, laws
forbidding inter-racial marriage, laws forbiding oral sex.
This amendment would be yet another example.
There is no moral equivalence
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 11:44:08 AM |
|
|
In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4k626$rpp$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> In article <c4k5s1$1qv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
<writes:
<> <
<> <
<> <"Bard Kesnit" <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
<> <news:g7iq60dmef9jbjcr4af6gvtnphomre1e08@4ax.com...
<> <> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
<> <>
<> <> >
<> <> >"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
<> <> >news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
<> <> >>
<> <> >> "Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<> <> >> news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> <> >
<> <> >> > <You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance is
<> <brutal
<> <> >> >
<> <> >> >
<> <> >> > Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn
<someone
<> <> >> > for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the same
<> <> >> fashion,
<> <> >> > you're nobly protecting society from itself.
<> <> >> >
<> <> >> > How is that the case?
<> <> >>
<> <> >> The time tested history of Humanity
<> <> >
<> <> >...and it's moral authority
<> <> >
<> <>
<> <> Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
<> <> about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
<> <> church says gays are evil, fine.
<> <>
<> <> We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
<> <> other words, the government.
<> <>
<> <> Bard Kesnit
<>
<> <
<> < You forget "we the people" are the government and as such have every
<right
<> < to establish moral behavioral standards/laws.
<>
<> And you forget that "we the people" have often fucked the pooch in
<> attempting to do so -- witness laws supporting slavery, laws
<> forbidding inter-racial marriage, laws forbiding oral sex.
<>
<> This amendment would be yet another example.
<
<There is no moral equivalence
<
<
Sure is. People who once wrote in tones quite similar to ours
told us how slavery was ordained by God (quoting Scripture all
the while), told us how integration would "destroy our way
of life", told us that blowjobs were "unnatural" -- in fact,
my very own state until just four years ago had a long-standing
statute that outlawed oral sex together with sodomy.
There's TONS of equivalence.
-- cary
.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 12:55:45 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4k8p8$t8k$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
writes:
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4k626$rpp$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> In article <c4k5s1$1qv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB"
<CB@prayforme.com>
<writes:
<> <
<> <
<> <"Bard Kesnit" <vtcheme@hotmail.nospam..com> wrote in message
<> <news:g7iq60dmef9jbjcr4af6gvtnphomre1e08@4ax.com...
<> <> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:00:33 -0500, "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
<> <>
<> <> >
<> <> >"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
<> <> >news:c4iofe$rbv$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
<> <> >>
<> <> >> "Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<> <> >> news:c4hnqe$ilc$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> <> >
<> <> >> > <You must be whipping your self when you sin, your intolerance
is
<> <brutal
<> <> >> >
<> <> >> >
<> <> >> > Goodness goodness goodness -- I'm "intolerant" when I condemn
<someone
<> <> >> > for flouting the Scriptures, but when you condemn gays in the
same
<> <> >> fashion,
<> <> >> > you're nobly protecting society from itself.
<> <> >> >
<> <> >> > How is that the case?
<> <> >>
<> <> >> The time tested history of Humanity
<> <> >
<> <> >...and it's moral authority
<> <> >
<> <>
<> <> Who cares what the Bible - or any other religious book - says
<> <> about gays? We aren't dealing with a religious issue here. If your
<> <> church says gays are evil, fine.
<> <>
<> <> We are discussing civil (read: non-religious) marriage. In
<> <> other words, the government.
<> <>
<> <> Bard Kesnit
<>
<> <
<> < You forget "we the people" are the government and as such have every
<right
<> < to establish moral behavioral standards/laws.
<>
<> And you forget that "we the people" have often fucked the pooch in
<> attempting to do so -- witness laws supporting slavery, laws
<> forbidding inter-racial marriage, laws forbiding oral sex.
<>
<> This amendment would be yet another example.
<
<There is no moral equivalence
<
<
Sure is. People who once wrote in tones quite similar to ours
told us how slavery was ordained by God (quoting Scripture all
the while), told us how integration would "destroy our way
of life", told us that blowjobs were "unnatural" -- in fact,
my very own state until just four years ago had a long-standing
statute that outlawed oral sex together with sodomy.
There's TONS of equivalence.
Where you see homosexual unions progressing into marriage based on civil
rights, I do not. I see the dysfunctional lifestyles of homosexual unions
seeking moral equivalence.
There is not moral equivalence comparing the plight of blacks (they're
offended by that analogy) and other civil rights struggles to unnatural
affection. It's a moral issue, not a civil rights issue.
Government have a compelling interest in protecting the institution of
marriage so to insure its culture is unmolested by those advocates of
dysfunctional relationships. As much as you may think homosexual behavior is
normal, it is not.
The license for marriage is not a right in which every couple qualifies. The
requirement is one man and one woman, period.
Debate that into minutia.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Peacenik" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 07:56:14 PM |
|
|
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
news:c4kcvh$a6c$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
Sure is. People who once wrote in tones quite similar to ours
told us how slavery was ordained by God (quoting Scripture all
the while), told us how integration would "destroy our way
of life", told us that blowjobs were "unnatural" -- in fact,
my very own state until just four years ago had a long-standing
statute that outlawed oral sex together with sodomy.
There's TONS of equivalence.
Where you see homosexual unions progressing into marriage based on civil
rights, I do not. I see the dysfunctional lifestyles of homosexual unions
seeking moral equivalence.
And because of that, you and people like you are correctly described as
"bigots".
There is not moral equivalence comparing the plight of blacks (they're
offended by that analogy)
I see. You speak for all blacks. How presumptuous.
and other civil rights struggles to unnatural
affection. It's a moral issue, not a civil rights issue.
It is both. Gays are denied equal rights - that makes it a civil rights
issue. The reason for this denial is the immorality known as bigotry: this
makes it a moral issue.
The denial of human rights is IMMORAL.
Government have a compelling interest in protecting the institution of
marriage so to insure its culture is unmolested by those advocates of
dysfunctional relationships.
Circular logic. ("Homosexuality is bad, therefore it is bad.")
And unsupported assertion. ("Homosexuality is bad, because...well, just
because.")
As much as you may think homosexual behavior is
normal, it is not.
The license for marriage is not a right in which every couple qualifies.
"Voting is not a right in which every person qualifies" (said by
anti-women-suffragists, segregationists and other bigots of the past)
The
requirement is one man and one woman, period.
That's every bit as bigoted as saying "The requirement is two people of the
same race, period".
You are a bigot. That's not name-calling; it's merely a statement of fact.
--
Peacenik
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 01:08:02 PM |
|
|
In article <c4kcvh$a6c$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message news:c4k8p8$t8k$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<> <
{...}
<>
<> Sure is. People who once wrote in tones quite similar to ours
<> told us how slavery was ordained by God (quoting Scripture all
<> the while), told us how integration would "destroy our way
<> of life", told us that blowjobs were "unnatural" -- in fact,
<> my very own state until just four years ago had a long-standing
<> statute that outlawed oral sex together with sodomy.
<>
<> There's TONS of equivalence.
<
< Where you see homosexual unions progressing into marriage based on civil
< rights,
Not me. I merely gave examples of past laws which were passed
on moral and religious grounds which today are seen more as
having been based on bigotry or squeemishness.
I made no claim that this was a civil rights issue. Unless
you think that blowjobs are a matter of civil right.
<I do not. I see the dysfunctional lifestyles of homosexual unions
<seeking moral equivalence.
But yet you refuse to tell us why they are "dysfunctional". Hard
to put much credence in your argument when you yourself cannot
explain it.
<
<There is not moral equivalence comparing the plight of blacks (they're
<offended by that analogy) and other civil rights struggles to unnatural
<affection. It's a moral issue, not a civil rights issue.
<
<Government have a compelling interest in protecting the institution of
<marriage so to insure its culture is unmolested by those advocates of
<dysfunctional relationships.
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more usual version?
You're telling me that if Ray and Steve get hitched, you'll start
cheating on your wife or something? I wouldn't -- my marriage
would mean to me what it previously meant to me. I'm puzzled why
this would change your attitude towards, or your committment to,
your own.
-- cary
.
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|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 03:04:04 PM |
|
|
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
In article <c4kcvh$a6c$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
writes:
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:c4k8p8$t8k$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB"
<CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<> <
{...}
<>
<> Sure is. People who once wrote in tones quite similar to ours
<> told us how slavery was ordained by God (quoting Scripture all
<> the while), told us how integration would "destroy our way
<> of life", told us that blowjobs were "unnatural" -- in fact,
<> my very own state until just four years ago had a long-standing
<> statute that outlawed oral sex together with sodomy.
<>
<> There's TONS of equivalence.
<
< Where you see homosexual unions progressing into marriage based on civil
< rights,
Not me. I merely gave examples of past laws which were passed
on moral and religious grounds which today are seen more as
having been based on bigotry or squeemishness.
I made no claim that this was a civil rights issue. Unless
you think that blowjobs are a matter of civil right.
<I do not. I see the dysfunctional lifestyles of homosexual unions
<seeking moral equivalence.
But yet you refuse to tell us why they are "dysfunctional".
dysfunctional: Abnormal or impaired functioning, especially of a bodily
system or social group
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dysfunctional
Hard
to put much credence in your argument when you yourself cannot
explain it.
<
<There is not moral equivalence comparing the plight of blacks (they're
<offended by that analogy) and other civil rights struggles to unnatural
<affection. It's a moral issue, not a civil rights issue.
<
<Government have a compelling interest in protecting the institution of
<marriage so to insure its culture is unmolested by those advocates of
<dysfunctional relationships.
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more usual version?
It would change the culture of America
You're telling me that if Ray and Steve get hitched, you'll start
cheating on your wife or something?
Where do you make that leap?
I wouldn't -- my marriage
would mean to me what it previously meant to me. I'm puzzled why
this would change your attitude towards, or your committment to,
your own.
No one has ever said it would.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 04:28:05 PM |
|
|
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
<Government have a compelling interest in protecting the institution of
<marriage so to insure its culture is unmolested by those advocates of
<dysfunctional relationships.
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more usual version?
It would change the culture of America
How? Gays are already living together with no need of sanction from
society. Sanctioning homosexual marriage merely raises long-term
commitments in such relationships to a more elevated status than
simply shacking up. Do you contend that it is better that gays have
short term relationships than long term ones?
I wouldn't -- my marriage
would mean to me what it previously meant to me. I'm puzzled why
this would change your attitude towards, or your committment to,
your own.
No one has ever said it would.
If gay marriage would not change your attitude towards marriage, then
how would culture change? Culture is after all the sum of people's
attitudes toward marriage. Or are you using a different definition?
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
03 Apr 2004 07:00:48 PM |
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in
message news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more
usual version?
It would change the culture of America
So? The culture of America is changing right now, and
there's not much that you--or I--can do to stop it.
Cultures simply change with time, especially when the
material circumstances underlying their existance changes,
which our does with astonishing speed all the time. In fact,
much of the reason behind the growing acceptance of
homosexuality is just one facet of the growth of the idea that
sex is for fun, not procreation, which is in turn a outgrowth
arising from a host of technological factors, from the ready
availablity of contraceptions and birth control to the
economic expense-vs-benefit ratio of raising kids. This isn't
a pro-natalist society any more.
I suggest you simply get used to the ride.
Secret Squirrel
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.
|
|
|
| User: "CB" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
05 Apr 2004 11:05:47 AM |
|
|
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in message
news:5AWQDHOD38081.1236226852@Gilgamesh-Frog.org...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in
message news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more
usual version?
It would change the culture of America
So? The culture of America is changing right now, and
there's not much that you--or I--can do to stop it.
Cultures simply change with time, especially when the
material circumstances underlying their existance changes,
which our does with astonishing speed all the time. In fact,
much of the reason behind the growing acceptance of
homosexuality is just one facet of the growth of the idea that
sex is for fun, not procreation, which is in turn a outgrowth
arising from a host of technological factors, from the ready
availablity of contraceptions and birth control to the
economic expense-vs-benefit ratio of raising kids. This isn't
a pro-natalist society any more.
I suggest you simply get used to the ride.
Secret Squirrel
Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look around, the homo push
has been stopped.
--
CB
"Neither philosophy, nor religion, nor morality, nor wisdom, nor
interest will ever govern nations or parties against their vanity,
their pride, their resentment or revenge, or their avarice or
ambition. Nothing but force and power and strength can restrain them."
--John Adams
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=vnFh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
.
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|
| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
06 Apr 2004 05:30:05 PM |
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4s04s$kdf$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in
message news:5AWQDHOD38081.1236226852@Gilgamesh-Frog.org...
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in
message news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the
more usual version?
It would change the culture of America
So? The culture of America is changing right now, and
there's not much that you--or I--can do to stop it.
Cultures simply change with time, especially when the
material circumstances underlying their existance changes,
which our does with astonishing speed all the time. In
fact, much of the reason behind the growing acceptance of
homosexuality is just one facet of the growth of the idea
that sex is for fun, not procreation, which is in turn a
outgrowth arising from a host of technological factors,
from the ready availablity of contraceptions and birth
control to the economic expense-vs-benefit ratio of
raising kids. This isn't a pro-natalist society any more.
I suggest you simply get used to the ride.
Secret Squirrel
Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look
around, the homo push has been stopped.
Communist "tools of deviance?" Funny, the one thing that many
have noted that both the KGB and the McCarthyites agreed upon
was that homosexuals were security risks and couldn't be
trusted.
The Soviet Union was *not* a gay-friendly state, not in the
least. Homosexual acts were a crime under Soviet law.
Secret Squirrel
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.
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|
|
| User: "Poster Boy" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
06 Apr 2004 05:45:00 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:30:05 +0000 (UTC),
(Secret Squirrel) wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4s04s$kdf$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Secret Squirrel" < > wrote in
message news:5AWQDHOD38081.1236226852@Gilgamesh-Frog.org...
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in
message news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the
more usual version?
It would change the culture of America
So? The culture of America is changing right now, and
there's not much that you--or I--can do to stop it.
Cultures simply change with time, especially when the
material circumstances underlying their existance changes,
which our does with astonishing speed all the time. In
fact, much of the reason behind the growing acceptance of
homosexuality is just one facet of the growth of the idea
that sex is for fun, not procreation, which is in turn a
outgrowth arising from a host of technological factors,
from the ready availablity of contraceptions and birth
control to the economic expense-vs-benefit ratio of
raising kids. This isn't a pro-natalist society any more.
I suggest you simply get used to the ride.
Secret Squirrel
Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look
around, the homo push has been stopped.
Communist "tools of deviance?" Funny, the one thing that many
have noted that both the KGB and the McCarthyites agreed upon
was that homosexuals were security risks and couldn't be
trusted.
The Soviet Union was *not* a gay-friendly state, not in the
least. Homosexual acts were a crime under Soviet law.
I always find this annoying. Homosexuals are a security risk because
we can be blackmailed. We are blackmail targets because if word gets
out that we are gay we will lose our jobs. The governments
discriminate against gay employees) because of a problem which is
caused by their discriminate against gay employees. Stop the
discrimination and the problem promptly vanishes.
Why is it that so much illogical circular reasoning arises whenever
the subject of gay rights comes up. I think it is because the Radical
Religious Right KKKultists get involved and, after all, their entire
philosophy is based on begging the question (to wit, the bible is true
because the bible says so.)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
06 Apr 2004 06:07:15 PM |
|
|
Communist "tools of deviance?" Funny, the one thing that many
have noted that both the KGB and the McCarthyites agreed upon
was that homosexuals were security risks and couldn't be
trusted.
The Soviet Union was *not* a gay-friendly state, not in the
least. Homosexual acts were a crime under Soviet law.
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0500, Poster Boy wrote:
I always find this annoying. Homosexuals are a security risk because
we can be blackmailed. We are blackmail targets because if word gets
out that we are gay we will lose our jobs. The governments
discriminate against gay employees) because of a problem which is
caused by their discriminate against gay employees. Stop the
discrimination and the problem promptly vanishes.
There was a lead article in the _Boston Globe_ in the middle 80's about
homosexuals in the military.
An unnamed major was quoted (this is very close to an exact quote) as saying,
"The Pentagon says a lot of things that are ignored out in the field".
If somone is "hitting on" someone, it doesn't matter if the abuser is het or
hom - s/he will be "repreimanded" at a very low-level.
Likewise, nobody gives a bloody damn what someone's "sexual orientation" is
if it doesn't intrude. It's considered, generally, to be the individual's
business and no one else's.
Why is it that so much illogical circular reasoning arises whenever
the subject of gay rights comes up. I think it is because the Radical
Religious Right KKKultists
You're kidding yourself if you think that racism is acceptable to any but an
extremely small (and not very bright) group of people who, generally, leave
the military with "less than an honorable discharge". If you're using racists
as the kingpins in sexuality, it is quite a stretch. (Especially since there
a lot of people who think that homosexuality is /extremely prevalent/ among
many of the racist groups.)
get involved and, after all, their entire
philosophy is based on begging the question (to wit, the bible is true
because the bible says so.)
And stuff and such/gray//
.
|
|
|
| User: "Poster Boy" |
|
| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
06 Apr 2004 06:38:20 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:15 -0500, Gray Shockley
<gray-87a@cybercoffee.org> wrote:
Communist "tools of deviance?" Funny, the one thing that many
have noted that both the KGB and the McCarthyites agreed upon
was that homosexuals were security risks and couldn't be
trusted.
The Soviet Union was *not* a gay-friendly state, not in the
least. Homosexual acts were a crime under Soviet law.
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0500, Poster Boy wrote:
I always find this annoying. Homosexuals are a security risk because
we can be blackmailed. We are blackmail targets because if word gets
out that we are gay we will lose our jobs. The governments
discriminate against gay employees) because of a problem which is
caused by their discriminate against gay employees. Stop the
discrimination and the problem promptly vanishes.
There was a lead article in the _Boston Globe_ in the middle 80's about
homosexuals in the military.
An unnamed major was quoted (this is very close to an exact quote) as saying,
"The Pentagon says a lot of things that are ignored out in the field".
If somone is "hitting on" someone, it doesn't matter if the abuser is het or
hom - s/he will be "repreimanded" at a very low-level.
Likewise, nobody gives a bloody damn what someone's "sexual orientation" is
if it doesn't intrude. It's considered, generally, to be the individual's
business and no one else's.
Why is it that so much illogical circular reasoning arises whenever
the subject of gay rights comes up. I think it is because the Radical
Religious Right KKKultists
You're kidding yourself if you think that racism is acceptable to any but an
extremely small (and not very bright) group of people who, generally, leave
the military with "less than an honorable discharge". If you're using racists
as the kingpins in sexuality, it is quite a stretch. (Especially since there
a lot of people who think that homosexuality is /extremely prevalent/ among
many of the racist groups.)
? What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about race or
racism, nor was I even addressing the military, but more the civil
service who are being tossed out (e.g., arabic translators.)
get involved and, after all, their entire
philosophy is based on begging the question (to wit, the bible is true
because the bible says so.)
And stuff and such/gray//
? What's your problem?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: Fey Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
06 Apr 2004 07:15:31 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:38:20 -0500, Poster Boy wrote
(in message <eef670p4mmsgncdhomrtr22dl7o2dk93s7@4ax.com>):
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:07:15 -0500, Gray Shockley
<gray-87a@cybercoffee.org> wrote:
Communist "tools of deviance?" Funny, the one thing that many
have noted that both the KGB and the McCarthyites agreed upon
was that homosexuals were security risks and couldn't be
trusted.
The Soviet Union was *not* a gay-friendly state, not in the
least. Homosexual acts were a crime under Soviet law.
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0500, Poster Boy wrote:
I always find this annoying. Homosexuals are a security risk because
we can be blackmailed. We are blackmail targets because if word gets
out that we are gay we will lose our jobs. The governments
discriminate against gay employees) because of a problem which is
caused by their discriminate against gay employees. Stop the
discrimination and the problem promptly vanishes.
There was a lead article in the _Boston Globe_ in the middle 80's about
homosexuals in the military.
An unnamed major was quoted (this is very close to an exact quote) as
saying,
"The Pentagon says a lot of things that are ignored out in the field".
If somone is "hitting on" someone, it doesn't matter if the abuser is het
or
hom - s/he will be "repreimanded" at a very low-level.
Likewise, nobody gives a bloody damn what someone's "sexual orientation"
is
if it doesn't intrude. It's considered, generally, to be the individual's
business and no one else's.
Why is it that so much illogical circular reasoning arises whenever
the subject of gay rights comes up. I think it is because the Radical
Religious Right KKKultists
You're kidding yourself if you think that racism is acceptable to any but
an
extremely small (and not very bright) group of people who, generally,
leave
the military with "less than an honorable discharge". If you're using
racists
as the kingpins in sexuality, it is quite a stretch. (Especially since
there
a lot of people who think that homosexuality is /extremely prevalent/
among
many of the racist groups.)
? What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about race or
racism,
Ya could've fooled me. Perhaps it's just the monomania of an old 60's guy who
worked civil rights but when I read, "Religious Right KKKultists", I tend to
think that race and racism is being mentioned. If you /don't/ think of the
KKKs, primarily, as racist organizations, there's a disconnect here.
nor was I even addressing the military, but more the civil
service who are being tossed out (e.g., arabic translators.)
And now I know you were speaking of civil service. I spent about ten years
working on the equipment that was used for Arabic, Korean, Czech, Russian
(and some others) linguists - probably the main source of civil service
translators (DLI) - and tend to think of the people with whom I worked rather
than the suit-and-tie folks.
get involved and, after all, their entire
philosophy is based on begging the question (to wit, the bible is true
because the bible says so.)
And stuff and such/gray//
? What's your problem?
Apparently not being a mind-reader.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier
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| User: "Fritz" |
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| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
05 Apr 2004 01:45:42 PM |
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CB wrote:
"Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in message
news:5AWQDHOD38081.1236226852@Gilgamesh-Frog.org...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in
message news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more
usual version?
It would change the culture of America
So? The culture of America is changing right now, and
there's not much that you--or I--can do to stop it.
Cultures simply change with time, especially when the
material circumstances underlying their existance changes,
which our does with astonishing speed all the time. In fact,
much of the reason behind the growing acceptance of
homosexuality is just one facet of the growth of the idea that
sex is for fun, not procreation, which is in turn a outgrowth
arising from a host of technological factors, from the ready
availablity of contraceptions and birth control to the
economic expense-vs-benefit ratio of raising kids. This isn't
a pro-natalist society any more.
I suggest you simply get used to the ride.
Secret Squirrel
Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look around, the homo push
has been stopped.
Oh yes, the last homo went back in the closet last nite, about 8:37,
I think.
--
Fritz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religion = tyranny.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
05 Apr 2004 01:59:11 PM |
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In article <4071A955.9B73CF8C@1sib2dw81ncnytpl.net> Fritz <fsmith@1sib2dw81ncnytpl.net> writes:
<CB wrote:
<
<> "Secret Squirrel" <ssquirrel@nottheremailer.net> wrote in message
<> news:5AWQDHOD38081.1236226852@Gilgamesh-Frog.org...
<> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
<> >
<> > "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
<> > news:c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
<> > >
<> > > "Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in
<> > > message news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> >
<> > >> So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more
<> > >> usual version?
<> > >
<> > > It would change the culture of America
<> >
<> > So? The culture of America is changing right now, and
<> > there's not much that you--or I--can do to stop it.
<> > Cultures simply change with time, especially when the
<> > material circumstances underlying their existance changes,
<> > which our does with astonishing speed all the time. In fact,
<> > much of the reason behind the growing acceptance of
<> > homosexuality is just one facet of the growth of the idea that
<> > sex is for fun, not procreation, which is in turn a outgrowth
<> > arising from a host of technological factors, from the ready
<> > availablity of contraceptions and birth control to the
<> > economic expense-vs-benefit ratio of raising kids. This isn't
<> > a pro-natalist society any more.
<> >
<> > I suggest you simply get used to the ride.
<> >
<> > Secret Squirrel
<>
<> Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look around, the homo push
<> has been stopped.
<
<Oh yes, the last homo went back in the closet last nite, about 8:37,
<I think.
Naw. Not only is that wrong, the communists who plotted in the the entire
American homosexual-rights movement are dancing in the streets of .... erm,
where were the communists who devised the whole thing from again?
-- cary
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Fey Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
05 Apr 2004 03:43:57 PM |
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On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:59:11 -0500, Cary Kittrell wrote
(in message <c4sa9v$99c$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>):
<> Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look around, the homo push
<> has been stopped.
<
<Oh yes, the last homo went back in the closet last nite, about 8:37,
<I think.
Naw. Not only is that wrong, the communists who plotted in the the entire
American homosexual-rights movement are dancing in the streets of .... erm,
where were the communists who devised the whole thing from again?
-- cary
The Last Day Profits have reduced, induced, deduced and figgered out that the
main areas in which Satan and His Communist Minions (including the Democratic
Party, Burger King, the Federal Communications Commission, Motel 666,
Shoney's, Domino's Pizza, the Presbyterian Church, Metro-Goldwyn Mayer, the
Bolshoi Ballet, Ayn Rand's romance novels, all eighth grade students in
private schools and the Collected Works of Wisdom and Humor of Richard
Milhous Nixon and its distributors) reside are in the 21st Century
equivalents of Sodom and Gomorrah, notably Birmingham and Montgomery although
Phenix City is certainly rich in the history of sin, mobsters, hoodlums,
organized crime and having many other fellow members of the religious
brotherhood (now referred to as the "religious brother-and-sisterhood" after
the passage of various and sundries civil rights legislation).
There has been an insurrection of these Last Day Profits as well as the
pay-triotic ploy of these exhibitionists of the religious miscreants who have
no choice but to have done graduate work in "what to kiss and when" in the
best tradition of leading from the rear and to have only - out of all that
schooling in arithmetic and mathematics - to have only learned the lowest
common denominators. But "they" (and you know how "they" are) have learned
well about appealing to only the lowest common denominators quite well.
From the antediluvian records found by researchers of both the academic
disciplines (such as people who can read and write) as well as the physical
disciplines (such as athletes, manual laborers and members of political
parties), it has been discovered that the ancient people of this area - known
as "The Retardos", the "wacko's", the "loons" and by the overall
label/decriptor of "Talabamians" - did not, as has often been surmised -
develop at a highly developed civilization which had declined but as no
civilization at all that has been maintained in the state (both definitions
apply).
Now: does that answer your question?
Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
Or do you need a verbose explanation?
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| User: "Fritz" |
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| Title: Re: Fey Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
07 Apr 2004 03:28:32 AM |
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Gray Shockley wrote:
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:59:11 -0500, Cary Kittrell wrote
(in message <c4sa9v$99c$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>):
<> Communism and its tools of devience hasn't won, look around, the homo push
<> has been stopped.
<
<Oh yes, the last homo went back in the closet last nite, about 8:37,
<I think.
Naw. Not only is that wrong, the communists who plotted in the the entire
American homosexual-rights movement are dancing in the streets of .... erm,
where were the communists who devised the whole thing from again?
-- cary
The Last Day Profits have reduced, induced, deduced and figgered out that the
main areas in which Satan and His Communist Minions (including the Democratic
Party, Burger King, the Federal Communications Commission, Motel 666,
Shoney's, Domino's Pizza, the Presbyterian Church, Metro-Goldwyn Mayer, the
Bolshoi Ballet, Ayn Rand's romance novels, all eighth grade students in
private schools and the Collected Works of Wisdom and Humor of Richard
Milhous Nixon and its distributors) reside are in the 21st Century
equivalents of Sodom and Gomorrah, notably Birmingham and Montgomery although
Phenix City is certainly rich in the history of sin, mobsters, hoodlums,
organized crime and having many other fellow members of the religious
brotherhood (now referred to as the "religious brother-and-sisterhood" after
the passage of various and sundries civil rights legislation).
There has been an insurrection of these Last Day Profits as well as the
pay-triotic ploy of these exhibitionists of the religious miscreants who have
no choice but to have done graduate work in "what to kiss and when" in the
best tradition of leading from the rear and to have only - out of all that
schooling in arithmetic and mathematics - to have only learned the lowest
common denominators. But "they" (and you know how "they" are) have learned
well about appealing to only the lowest common denominators quite well.
From the antediluvian records found by researchers of both the academic
disciplines (such as people who can read and write) as well as the physical
disciplines (such as athletes, manual laborers and members of political
parties), it has been discovered that the ancient people of this area - known
as "The Retardos", the "wacko's", the "loons" and by the overall
label/decriptor of "Talabamians" - did not, as has often been surmised -
develop at a highly developed civilization which had declined but as no
civilization at all that has been maintained in the state (both definitions
apply).
Now: does that answer your question?
I'm not sure, I forgot what the question was.
--
Fritz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religion = tyranny.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
02 Apr 2004 03:25:07 PM |
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In article <c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> In article <c4kcvh$a6c$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
<writes:
<> <
<> <"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4k8p8$t8k$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> <> In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB"
<<CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<> <> <
<> {...}
<>
<> So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more usual version?
<
<It would change the culture of America
Yep. It might. So did de-segregation. So did the women's movement. So did
the personal computer. So did the pill. So did the appearance
of fundamentalist Christianity as a political movement.
<
<> You're telling me that if Ray and Steve get hitched, you'll start
<> cheating on your wife or something?
<
< Where do you make that leap?
Where you say that allowing gays to get married would threaten the institution.
I say that if you and your wife have the same committment to one
another after Bob and Sean get married that you had before they
got married, then allowing them to marry posed no threat to
the institution.
<
< I wouldn't -- my marriage
<> would mean to me what it previously meant to me. I'm puzzled why
<> this would change your attitude towards, or your committment to,
<> your own.
<
<No one has ever said it would.
You're the one who said it would "molest" the institution. You're the
one who said that you are "protecting marriage".
If your marriage is untouched by what these boys do with one another,
then marriage has not been threatened.
If you marriage suffers because of what these boys did, then something
was wrong with it already.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
24 Apr 2004 01:50:32 AM |
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On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:25:07 -0600, Cary Kittrell wrote
(in message <c4klnj$6gp$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>):
In article <c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
writes:
<
<"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> In article <c4kcvh$a6c$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
<writes:
<> <
<> <"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<news:c4k8p8$t8k$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> <> In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB"
<<CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<> <> <
<> {...}
<>
<> So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more usual version?
<
<It would change the culture of America
Yep. It might. So did de-segregation. So did the women's movement. So did
the personal computer. So did the pill. So did the appearance
of fundamentalist Christianity as a political movement.
A good list but you left out the /really/ big one: the automobile.
/gray//
<
<> You're telling me that if Ray and Steve get hitched, you'll start
<> cheating on your wife or something?
<
< Where do you make that leap?
Where you say that allowing gays to get married would threaten the
institution.
I say that if you and your wife have the same committment to one
another after Bob and Sean get married that you had before they
got married, then allowing them to marry posed no threat to
the institution.
<
< I wouldn't -- my marriage
<> would mean to me what it previously meant to me. I'm puzzled why
<> this would change your attitude towards, or your committment to,
<> your own.
<
<No one has ever said it would.
You're the one who said it would "molest" the institution. You're the
one who said that you are "protecting marriage".
If your marriage is untouched by what these boys do with one another,
then marriage has not been threatened.
If you marriage suffers because of what these boys did, then something
was wrong with it already.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Gay Marriage Undermins Marriage & Family Culture |
24 Apr 2004 09:04:51 AM |
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In article <nYydnTAsz7GlkxfdRVn-uw@giganews.com> Gray Shockley <gray-87a@cybercoffee.org> writes:
<On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:25:07 -0600, Cary Kittrell wrote
<(in message <c4klnj$6gp$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>):
<
<> In article <c4kkg4$gqh$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
<> writes:
<> <
<> <"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<> <news:c4kdmi$2cq$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> <> In article <c4kcvh$a6c$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB" <CB@prayforme.com>
<> <writes:
<> <> <
<> <> <"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
<> <news:c4k8p8$t8k$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
<> <> <> In article <c4k7vl$3qb$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com> "CB"
<> <<CB@prayforme.com> writes:
<> <> <> <
<> <> {...}
<> <>
<> <> So, allowing homosexual marriage would "molest" the more usual version?
<> <
<> <It would change the culture of America
<>
<> Yep. It might. So did de-segregation. So did the women's movement. So did
<> the personal computer. So did the pill. So did the appearance
<> of fundamentalist Christianity as a political movement.
<>
<
<
<A good list but you left out the /really/ big one: the automobile.
<
<
Huh? What? The automobile has always been around, wasn't it? Like,
ever since the Garden of Edsel?
-- cary
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