| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Cary Kittrell" |
| Date: |
15 Sep 2005 10:30:54 AM |
| Object: |
Re: "under God" |
In article <dgc3vh$4hg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu> (Cary Kittrell) writes:
In article <a04ji1hqujg3s1b22sku9d0odg75ki1ea0@4ax.com> writes:
On 14 Sep 2005 22:01:15 -0700, "EagleEye"
<jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote:
maybe the athiest can argue a strong case for his own non-existence and
the utter absurdity of there being no relationship between self and the
center and source of being and of a first/last cause, by simply
vanishing!
Atheism has nothing to do with it. Freedom of religion implicitly
includes freedom from religion. While I was in grammar school the
pledge did not contain "under god". Why not just return to the
original? Besides, all the Christian types are breaking one of the 10
Commandments every time they say the pledge. Graven images and idols
anyone?
And not just the Ten Commandments: according to Jesus, one should
not take oaths at all:
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou
shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine
oaths:
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is
God's throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it
is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one
hair white or black.
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is
more than these cometh of evil.
[ Matt 5 33-37]
Cometh then the Pledge of Allegiance from evil?
-- cary
.
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| User: "sue_doe_cy_ants" |
|
| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 04:00:31 AM |
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Cary Kittrell wrote:
In article <dgc3vh$4hg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu> (Cary Kittrell) writes:
In article <a04ji1hqujg3s1b22sku9d0odg75ki1ea0@4ax.com> writes:
On 14 Sep 2005 22:01:15 -0700, "EagleEye"
<jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote:
maybe the athiest can argue a strong case for his own non-existence and
the utter absurdity of there being no relationship between self and the
center and source of being and of a first/last cause, by simply
vanishing!
Atheism has nothing to do with it. Freedom of religion implicitly
includes freedom from religion. While I was in grammar school the
pledge did not contain "under god". Why not just return to the
original? Besides, all the Christian types are breaking one of the 10
Commandments every time they say the pledge. Graven images and idols
anyone?
And not just the Ten Commandments: according to Jesus, one should
not take oaths at all:
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou
shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine
oaths:
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is
God's throne:
Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it
is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one
hair white or black.
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is
more than these cometh of evil.
[ Matt 5 33-37]
Cometh then the Pledge of Allegiance from evil?
Ah, America needs to return to the
religious ideologies of its founders:
"If we did a good act merely from love of God
and a belief that it is pleasing to Him,
whence arises the morality of the Atheist?
...Their virtue, then, must have had
some other foundation than the love of God."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
--------------
and then there is always that godless Patriot Paine:
"The (ten) Commandments carry no internal
evidence of divinity with them; they
contain some good moral precepts, such
as any man qualified to be a law-giver,
or a legislator, could produce himself,
without having recourse to supernatural
intervention."
--Thomas Paine, Founder
.
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: "under God" |
16 Sep 2005 10:33:46 AM |
|
|
"sue_doe_cy_ants" <sue_doe_cy_ants@labb.port5.com> wrote:
:|Cary Kittrell wrote:
:|> In article <dgc3vh$4hg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu> (Cary Kittrell) writes:
:|>> In article <a04ji1hqujg3s1b22sku9d0odg75ki1ea0@4ax.com> writes:
:|>>> On 14 Sep 2005 22:01:15 -0700, "EagleEye"
:|>>> <jnewton@globalmanagement.ca> wrote:
:|>>>
:|>>>>maybe the athiest can argue a strong case for his own non-existence and
:|>>>>the utter absurdity of there being no relationship between self and the
:|>>>>center and source of being and of a first/last cause, by simply
:|>>>>vanishing!
:|>>>
:|>>> Atheism has nothing to do with it. Freedom of religion implicitly
:|>>> includes freedom from religion. While I was in grammar school the
:|>>> pledge did not contain "under god". Why not just return to the
:|>>> original? Besides, all the Christian types are breaking one of the 10
:|>>> Commandments every time they say the pledge. Graven images and idols
:|>>> anyone?
:|>>
:|>> And not just the Ten Commandments: according to Jesus, one should
:|>> not take oaths at all:
:|>>
:|>> Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou
:|>> shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine
:|>> oaths:
:|>>
:|>> But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is
:|>> God's throne:
:|>>
:|>> Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it
:|>> is the city of the great King.
:|>>
:|>> Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one
:|>> hair white or black.
:|>>
:|>> But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is
:|>> more than these cometh of evil.
:|>>
:|>>
:|>> [ Matt 5 33-37]
:|>>
:|>>
:|>> Cometh then the Pledge of Allegiance from evil?
:|
:|Ah, America needs to return to the
:|religious ideologies of its founders:
:|
:| "If we did a good act merely from love of God
:| and a belief that it is pleasing to Him,
:| whence arises the morality of the Atheist?
:| ...Their virtue, then, must have had
:| some other foundation than the love of God."
:|
:| -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
What might those have been?
***************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: "under God" |
17 Sep 2005 12:52:49 AM |
|
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wrote:
"sue_doe_cy_ants" <sue_doe_cy_ants@labb.port5.com> wrote:
Ah, America needs to return to the
religious ideologies of its founders:
"If we did a good act merely from love of God
and a belief that it is pleasing to Him,
whence arises the morality of the Atheist?
...Their virtue, then, must have had
some other foundation than the love of God."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814
What might those have been?
I am quite comfortable applying a Jeffersonian test
when pondering a religion's propriety in America:
If it neither picks my pocket or breaks my legs,
they even have a right to believe
in the grotesque phantasm
of eternal life's acquisition
by drinking the blood
of somebody else's injustly executed son.
although, my personal beliefs lean
towards the harmonious stylings of Paine:
"Yet this is trash
that the Church imposes upon the world
as the Word of God;
this is the collection
of lies and contradictions
called the Holy Bible!
this is the rubbish
called Revealed Religion!"
--Thomas Paine
Amen, Mr. Deacon of Liberty;
let's return to the religion of Thomas Paine
.
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