| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
| Date: |
06 Sep 2007 10:30:08 PM |
| Object: |
Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
percent of the sales.
Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 02:31:53 AM |
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"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189135808.963894.59200@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
percent of the sales.
Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Where does the money come from?
People.
If your goal is to promote religion, you're failing. No one wants to follow
in the deranged footsteps of such a moron.
If your goal is to mock religion, you're succeeding. Wonderfully.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 10:23:50 AM |
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On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:30:08 -0700, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
percent of the sales.
Exactly what p ublic funds are involved, then?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 06:27:22 AM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
:|school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
:|bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
:|percent of the sales.
:|
:|Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
:|catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
:|
:|Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
:|schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
:|schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
:|
(Yawn)
Public schools are secular schools.
Secular doesn't not mean atheist
You can comment on this article at
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/georgetown/2007/09/atheism_secularism_lets_get_ou.html
There is a memorable scene in the short story “Bloodshed” by the
spectacular Jewish-American novelist Cynthia Ozick. A Hasidic Rebbe endowed
with the ability to read other people’s minds confronts a visiting
nonbeliever seated in his synagogue. After having somehow articulated the
innermost thoughts of this troubled voyeur, the Rebbe exclaims: “Despair
must be earned.” The following dialogue ensues:
“I’m not in despair” Bleilip objected.
“To be an atheist is to be in despair.”
"I’m not an atheist, I’m a secularist,” but even Bleilip did not know what
he
meant by this.
My hunch is that many Americans do not know what is meant by these terms
either. Given the hysteria and incivility that characterize discussions
about secularism and atheism, permit me to suggest a few basic definitions
and distinctions.
Much confusion would be avoided if all kept the following in mind: not all
secularists are atheists or agnostics. There are many definitions of the
term secular. Some of them are highly nuanced and complex. Some demand
familiarity with the history of classic Christian political philosophy. But
for now let me offer a very simple (and useful) go-by: a secularist is a
person who advocates the strict separation of Church and State.
This brings us to atheists and agnostics. Speak to well educated members of
both groups and you will find that they have profound, and often quite
fascinating, philosophical disagreements with one another. But if there is
one thing atheists and agnostics usually agree on it is the importance of
keeping the Wall of Separation “high and impregnable,” to quote Justice
Black.
In short, nonbelievers in the United States are almost always secularists.
(True, I once had an atheist friend who--crediting Voltaire as her
inspiration--preferred theocracy because it kept the “little people”
tranquilized, in line, and generally out of her hair. Remarkable person,
she was. But clearly an exception to the rule).
Many Americans tend to equate secularism with nonbelief. Yet this equation
overlooks a fact of the utmost political importance for the 2008 elections.
There are many god-fearing citizens who are secularists as well. You will
find these believing secularists among the ranks of Catholics, Jews,
Muslims, Eastern Orthodox, Mainline Protestants, Mormons, Hindus, Sikhs,
and even certain Evangelicals, among others. It is a common fear of being
subject to a state-imposed religion (and that religion would be some
denominational form of Protestant Christianity) which unites them.
I am going to stop here, but let me close by observing that Democratic
strategists too seem to have understood that not all secularists are
atheists. It is the believing
Posted by Jacques Berlinerblau on September 6, 2007 11:44 AM
***************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Historical Reality SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
USAF LT. COL (Ret) Buffman (Glen P. Goffin) wrote
"You pilot always into an unknown future;
facts are your only clue. Get the facts!"
That philosophy 'snipit' helped to get me, and my crew, through a good
many combat missions and far too many scary, inflight, emergencies.
It has also played a significant role in helping me to expose the
plethora of radical Christian propaganda and lies that we find at
almost every media turn.
*****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
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| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 07:28:45 AM |
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On Sep 7, 6:27 am, wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
:|school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
:|bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
:|percent of the sales.
:|
:|Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
:|catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
:|
:|Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
:|schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
:|schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
:|
(Yawn)
Public schools are secular schools.
Secular doesn't not mean atheist
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools, not run by the public,
sharing the values of the public, teaching the morals of the public,
nor allowed by their socialist leaders from believing in God.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 05:37:41 PM |
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"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189168125.659405.69960@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 7, 6:27 am, wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
:|school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
:|bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
:|percent of the sales.
:|
:|Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
:|catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
:|
:|Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
:|schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
:|schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
:|
(Yawn)
Public schools are secular schools.
Secular doesn't not mean atheist
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools, not run by the public,
sharing the values of the public, teaching the morals of the public,
nor allowed by their socialist leaders from believing in God.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
ludicrous
1 : amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity, incongruity,
exaggeration, or eccentricity
2 : meriting derisive laughter or scorn as absurdly inept, false, or foolish
[m-w.com]
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| User: "Vosotros" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
08 Sep 2007 10:42:07 AM |
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"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46e1d28d$0$17089$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189168125.659405.69960@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 7, 6:27 am, wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at
your
:|school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
:|bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
:|percent of the sales.
:|
:|Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
:|catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
:|
:|Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
:|schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
:|schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
:|
(Yawn)
Public schools are secular schools.
Secular doesn't not mean atheist
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools, not run by the public,
sharing the values of the public, teaching the morals of the public,
nor allowed by their socialist leaders from believing in God.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
ludicrous
1 : amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity, incongruity,
exaggeration, or eccentricity
2 : meriting derisive laughter or scorn as absurdly inept, false, or
foolish [m-w.com]
I just don't get this "socialism=atheism" thing that these nuts bring up.
Don't some of the socialist countries in Europe have state churches?
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
08 Sep 2007 06:32:43 PM |
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"Vosotros" <Vosotros@spam.com> wrote in message
news:13e5gn2niljvu8c@corp.supernews.com...
"Roger" <rogerfx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46e1d28d$0$17089$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189168125.659405.69960@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 7, 6:27 am, wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at
your
:|school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
:|bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get
40
:|percent of the sales.
:|
:|Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
:|catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting
sales.
:|
:|Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
:|schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
:|schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
:|
(Yawn)
Public schools are secular schools.
Secular doesn't not mean atheist
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools, not run by the public,
sharing the values of the public, teaching the morals of the public,
nor allowed by their socialist leaders from believing in God.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
ludicrous
1 : amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity, incongruity,
exaggeration, or eccentricity
2 : meriting derisive laughter or scorn as absurdly inept, false, or
foolish [m-w.com]
I just don't get this "socialism=atheism" thing that these nuts bring up.
Don't some of the socialist countries in Europe have state churches?
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion
Jurisdictions which recognize a Lutheran church as their state religion:
Denmark (Church of Denmark)
Iceland (Church of Iceland)
Norway (Church of Norway)
Finland: Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland
Jurisdictions that recognise an Anglican church as their state religion:
England (Church of England)
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 11:48:32 AM |
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In article <1189168125.659405.69960@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> writes:
On Sep 7, 6:27 am, wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:|I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
:|school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog. If you
:|bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
:|percent of the sales.
:|
:|Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
:|catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
:|
:|Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
:|schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
:|schools. So much for a wall of separation, huh?
:|
(Yawn)
Public schools are secular schools.
Secular doesn't not mean atheist
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools,
They are?
Kindly provide your definition of the economic system
known as "Socialism" here:
-- cary
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 10:28:27 AM |
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On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 05:28:45 -0700, Wide Eyed in Wonder
<kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools, not run by the public,
sharing the values of the public, teaching the morals of the public,
nor allowed by their socialist leaders from believing in God.
"Socialist schools"?
What in the world is that?
If school boards are the first tier of government
"control" and THEY are elected at a LOCAL level by
citizens in the district---how are they equated with
some loony view of National government policy?
I know of NO proscription in any school, public or
private that precludes you from believing in God.
Simply does not exist.
And if Society "values" aren't supposed to be taught in
schools---who the ***** is supposed to teach them?
Churches and their adjunct parts such as Sunday School
teach biblical morality, ethics, and teachings
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 01:16:39 PM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yawwwwn! Public schools are socialist schools,
in the sense that they are run by the government, yes.
not run by the public,
In a society where the government is run by "we the people" (i.e. the
public), they most certainly are.
sharing the values of the public,
On the contrary. You just don't like the values of your fellow
members of the public.
teaching the morals of the public,
Public schools are not in the business of teaching morals. That is
the job of parents.
nor allowed by their socialist leaders
Their leader are not "socialists"
from believing in God.
The public schools have nothing to say for or against "believing in
God"; they aren't allowed to PROMOTE "believing in God". Since the
schools are comprised of many individuals with a broad spectrum of
beliefs, there is clearly no sense that "believing in God" is not
allowed. Indeed, since 90% of the public is educated in the public
schools, the fact that more than 10% of the public believes in God is
clear disproof of your silly claim.
lojbab
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Religious Funds Go To Public Schools |
07 Sep 2007 12:20:19 AM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
I don't know how many of you got the same magazine sales drive at your
school. Our daughter came home with a magazine catalog.
Your daughter is going to *public school*? Horror of horrors!!! What
happened to the home schooling? Did she exceed your level of
understanding by the time she entered 4th grade? And why would such
an opponent of the public schools as Kennie be sending his daughter to
the public schools and not to the morally-superior church schools?
Could it be that he is a hypocrite just like his heroes, the
televangelists?
If you bought any magazines from the catalog, the public school would get 40
percent of the sales.
You do realize that there are a whole bunch of such catalog drives.
You would have to identify the company that produced the catalog for
anyone to know which one you are talking about.
Here's the funny part. It contained RELIGIOUS magazines, and the
catalog suggested you take it to your church group for getting sales.
Funny, huh? Government funds cannot go to churches or Christian
schools, but religious funds can go to the government (atheistic)
schools.
Is a church buying these "religious magazines"? No. Private
individuals are, some of whom might actually be members of a church
group. The money that private individuals spend on products that are
sold are NOT "religious funds", even when the products have something
to do with religion.
And who is sponsoring this fund-raiser. I suspect that it is NOT the
school. Usually it is the PT(S)A, which is a private organization of
private individuals and is not part of the government, nor a part of
the school.
And again, there is nothing "atheistic" about public schools. Learn
the difference between "atheist" and "secular". There is one.
So much for a wall of separation, huh?
So much for yet another display of ignorance by Kennie.
lojbab
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