Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage



 Sociology > Education > Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 1 of 18

1

 

2

 

3

 

4

 

5

 

6

 

7

 

8

 

9

 

10

 

11

 

12

 

13

 

14

 

15

 

16

 

17

 

18

 
Topic: Sociology > Education
User: ""
Date: 08 Jun 2006 05:06:27 AM
Object: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage
Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage
A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.
By Maura Reynolds, LATimes Staff Writer
latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-marriage8jun08,0,7125389.story?track=tothtml
June 8, 2006 -- After three days of often perfunctory debate, Senate
conservatives failed Wednesday to win enough support to proceed with an
election-year constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.
A procedural motion to schedule an up-or-down vote on the measure
garnered 49 votes; it needed 60 for passage. Forty-eight senators
opposed the motion.
The amendment's supporters were disappointed that the motion was not
backed by more than half the 100-member chamber, a symbolic mark they
had hoped to reach.
All the same, the supporters said they had achieved a victory of sorts:
They gained one vote more than they had in 2004, the last time the
matter was debated in Congress.
"We're going to continue to press this issue," Sen. Wayne Allard
(R-Colo.), the amendment's sponsor, declared after the vote. "If it's
up to me, we'll have a vote on this issue every year. I think it's
important to the American people."
Democrats denounced the effort to amend the Constitution as a ploy to
rally conservative voters at a time when polls show flagging support
for the Republican Party and President Bush.
"The Constitution is too important to be used for partisan political
purposes," Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said on the Senate floor.
"It is not a billboard on which to hang political posters or slogans
seeking to stir public passions for political ends."
The House is expected to take up the same measure next month, even
though it almost assuredly will not be approved there either.
"This is a big issue with lots of our members and, frankly, with lots
of Americans," said House Majority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio). "So
bringing this issue to the floor, allowing it to be debated, voted on,
I think is a good idea."
Polls have shown that a majority of Americans believe marriage should
be limited to opposite-sex couples, but they also show that a majority
does not support amending the Constitution to make the point.
The amendment's supporters argue that the definition of marriage is
under threat from court challenges in various states and that the best
way to prevent same-sex marriages from gaining legal status is to amend
the Constitution.
"We're making progress in the Senate. We're making progress across the
country, in the states," said Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), a leading
proponent of the amendment. "And we will not stop until marriage as the
union of a man and a woman is protected in this country, protected in
the courts, protected in the Constitution, but most of all, protected
for the people and for the future of our children in this society."
Seven Republicans were among the 48 senators who voted against limiting
debate on the amendment: Susan Collins and Olympia J. Snowe, both of
Maine; Judd Gregg and John E. Sununu, both of New Hampshire; Lincoln
Chafee of Rhode Island; John McCain of Arizona; and Arlen Specter of
Pennsylvania.
Two of them - Gregg and Specter - changed their votes from 2004,
when a ruling by Massachusetts' Supreme Judicial Court legalized
same-sex marriages in that state.
"At the time, there was genuine cause for concern that the
Massachusetts Supreme Court, or any other court, would cause legal
chaos across the country and force same-sex marriage to be recognized
in states like New Hampshire that prohibit such union," Gregg said in a
statement. "Fortunately, such legal pandemonium has not ensued."
McCain, who is expected to seek the Republican presidential nomination
in 2008, has been trying to woo conservatives, but he risked their ire
by joining those voting to derail the amendment. He expressed support
for defining marriage as a union solely between a man and a woman but
said such laws should be left to the states.
Although GOP congressional leaders have pushed for consideration of the
proposed amendment in part to energize social conservatives - a key
element of the party's constituency - the week's Senate debate
generated few sparks.
Much of the comment was predictable, with arguments largely a rehash of
points made two years ago.
Two Democrats, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Robert C. Byrd of West
Virginia, broke with their party colleagues to support the motion for a
vote on the amendment.
Nelson, like many of the amendment's supporters, argued that the
measure was aimed at restricting "activist judges," not at gays and
lesbians.
Three senators were absent for the vote.
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) said through a spokesman that he would have
voted to end debate on the amendment, adding that if it had come to a
vote, he would have opposed its passage.
The other two absentees were Democrats who probably would have voted
against the procedural motion, as well as the amendment itself -
Sens. John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia and Christopher J. Dodd
of Connecticut.
A constitutional amendment requires approval from at least two-thirds
of each chamber of Congress and then ratification by at least
three-quarters of the states.
President Bush, who sought to build support for the amendment by
headlining a White House rally for it on Monday, signaled after
Wednesday's vote that his push for it would continue.
In a statement, he expressed disappointment about this year's outcome,
but added: "Our nation's founders set a high bar for amending our
Constitution, and history has shown us that it can take several tries
before an amendment builds the two-thirds support it needs in both
houses of Congress."
Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a leading
advocacy group of religious conservatives, was more critical of the
Senate.
"The people have spoken on this issue.[lie] But the Senate has ignored
them," he said in a statement. "Tens of millions have voted to defend
marriage," but the senators who opposed ending debate and the three who
did not vote "are serving as ring bearers for same-sex 'marriage.' "
[what a contemptible jackass]
James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, a Christian
organization that opposes what it describes as the "homosexual
lifestyle," described the vote as an "outrage." [another "outrageous"
jackass]
Liberal and gay rights groups praised the vote. Joe Solmonese,
president of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group,
called it a "resounding defeat against discrimination."
"President Bush and the Republican leadership gambled their dwindling
political capital on a discriminatory amendment and came up empty,"
Solmonese said.
Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times
.

User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 08 Jun 2006 07:43:45 PM
<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.

We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization from
fudge packers.
Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant nature.
Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.
Society should never be forced to give validation to that which it
vehemently rejects. Gay marriage is such a rejection, and there should be no
societal requirement to give the validation and recognition of deviant
behavior. We (society) have to accept homosexuality on an individual basis,
and I'm okay with that. I have two gay couples (one male and one female)
that live directly across the street from me -- in separate houses. As
individuals, I find these people to be smart, funny, outgoing, and basically
very nice people. But, I do not accept the lifestyle they have chosen (at
least one of them has children from a straight relationship, so a choice was
made at some point), and I do not feel that it is right to give them the
social validity that marriage bestows on a couple. Too bad, so sad.
</top post, remainder of original artical not snipped>

By Maura Reynolds, LATimes Staff Writer

latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-marriage8jun08,0,7125389.story?track=tothtml

June 8, 2006 -- After three days of often perfunctory debate, Senate
conservatives failed Wednesday to win enough support to proceed with an
election-year constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.

A procedural motion to schedule an up-or-down vote on the measure
garnered 49 votes; it needed 60 for passage. Forty-eight senators
opposed the motion.

The amendment's supporters were disappointed that the motion was not
backed by more than half the 100-member chamber, a symbolic mark they
had hoped to reach.

All the same, the supporters said they had achieved a victory of sorts:
They gained one vote more than they had in 2004, the last time the
matter was debated in Congress.

"We're going to continue to press this issue," Sen. Wayne Allard
(R-Colo.), the amendment's sponsor, declared after the vote. "If it's
up to me, we'll have a vote on this issue every year. I think it's
important to the American people."

Democrats denounced the effort to amend the Constitution as a ploy to
rally conservative voters at a time when polls show flagging support
for the Republican Party and President Bush.

"The Constitution is too important to be used for partisan political
purposes," Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said on the Senate floor.

"It is not a billboard on which to hang political posters or slogans
seeking to stir public passions for political ends."

The House is expected to take up the same measure next month, even
though it almost assuredly will not be approved there either.

"This is a big issue with lots of our members and, frankly, with lots
of Americans," said House Majority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio). "So
bringing this issue to the floor, allowing it to be debated, voted on,
I think is a good idea."

Polls have shown that a majority of Americans believe marriage should
be limited to opposite-sex couples, but they also show that a majority
does not support amending the Constitution to make the point.

The amendment's supporters argue that the definition of marriage is
under threat from court challenges in various states and that the best
way to prevent same-sex marriages from gaining legal status is to amend
the Constitution.

"We're making progress in the Senate. We're making progress across the
country, in the states," said Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), a leading
proponent of the amendment. "And we will not stop until marriage as the
union of a man and a woman is protected in this country, protected in
the courts, protected in the Constitution, but most of all, protected
for the people and for the future of our children in this society."

Seven Republicans were among the 48 senators who voted against limiting
debate on the amendment: Susan Collins and Olympia J. Snowe, both of
Maine; Judd Gregg and John E. Sununu, both of New Hampshire; Lincoln
Chafee of Rhode Island; John McCain of Arizona; and Arlen Specter of
Pennsylvania.

Two of them - Gregg and Specter - changed their votes from 2004,
when a ruling by Massachusetts' Supreme Judicial Court legalized
same-sex marriages in that state.

"At the time, there was genuine cause for concern that the
Massachusetts Supreme Court, or any other court, would cause legal
chaos across the country and force same-sex marriage to be recognized
in states like New Hampshire that prohibit such union," Gregg said in a
statement. "Fortunately, such legal pandemonium has not ensued."

McCain, who is expected to seek the Republican presidential nomination
in 2008, has been trying to woo conservatives, but he risked their ire
by joining those voting to derail the amendment. He expressed support
for defining marriage as a union solely between a man and a woman but
said such laws should be left to the states.

Although GOP congressional leaders have pushed for consideration of the
proposed amendment in part to energize social conservatives - a key
element of the party's constituency - the week's Senate debate
generated few sparks.

Much of the comment was predictable, with arguments largely a rehash of
points made two years ago.

Two Democrats, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Robert C. Byrd of West
Virginia, broke with their party colleagues to support the motion for a
vote on the amendment.

Nelson, like many of the amendment's supporters, argued that the
measure was aimed at restricting "activist judges," not at gays and
lesbians.

Three senators were absent for the vote.

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) said through a spokesman that he would have
voted to end debate on the amendment, adding that if it had come to a
vote, he would have opposed its passage.

The other two absentees were Democrats who probably would have voted
against the procedural motion, as well as the amendment itself -
Sens. John D. Rockefeller IV of West Virginia and Christopher J. Dodd
of Connecticut.

A constitutional amendment requires approval from at least two-thirds
of each chamber of Congress and then ratification by at least
three-quarters of the states.

President Bush, who sought to build support for the amendment by
headlining a White House rally for it on Monday, signaled after
Wednesday's vote that his push for it would continue.

In a statement, he expressed disappointment about this year's outcome,
but added: "Our nation's founders set a high bar for amending our
Constitution, and history has shown us that it can take several tries
before an amendment builds the two-thirds support it needs in both
houses of Congress."

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a leading
advocacy group of religious conservatives, was more critical of the
Senate.

"The people have spoken on this issue.[lie] But the Senate has ignored
them," he said in a statement. "Tens of millions have voted to defend
marriage," but the senators who opposed ending debate and the three who
did not vote "are serving as ring bearers for same-sex 'marriage.' "
[what a contemptible jackass]

James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, a Christian
organization that opposes what it describes as the "homosexual
lifestyle," described the vote as an "outrage." [another "outrageous"
jackass]

Liberal and gay rights groups praised the vote. Joe Solmonese,
president of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group,
called it a "resounding defeat against discrimination."

"President Bush and the Republican leadership gambled their dwindling
political capital on a discriminatory amendment and came up empty,"
Solmonese said.

Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times

.
User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 08 Jun 2006 08:13:17 PM
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant nature.

And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.

Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.
-- cary
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 10 Jun 2006 11:30:21 AM
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant nature
that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other deviants,
just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.


Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.

Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.
.
User: "Delta Tango Alpha"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 10 Jun 2006 11:42:40 AM
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net...


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant
nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant
nature that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other
deviants, just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.

I bet many believe the same about bigoted intolerant moralistic bible
thumpers such as yourself.




Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.


Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.

How?
Has it leant validity to wife beating trailer trash?
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 10 Jun 2006 07:03:07 PM
"Delta Tango Alpha" <dto@nospmamers.com> wrote in message
news:128ltk6iktlrp20@corp.supernews.com...


"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net...


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization
from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant
nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant
nature that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other
deviants, just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.


I bet many believe the same about bigoted intolerant moralistic bible
thumpers such as yourself.

Perhaps, but I see veryu little evidence of that here.





Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.


Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.


How?

Has it leant validity to wife beating trailer trash?

No. Wife beating is not condoned. Just like gay sex is not condoned.
When a marriage goes sour (wife beating), social acceptance is out the
window. When gays try to make social order, acceptance is out the window.
.
User: "Delta Tango Alpha"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 11 Jun 2006 12:47:32 PM
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16GdnQ2OBugmwBbZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@ez2.net...


"Delta Tango Alpha" <dto@nospmamers.com> wrote in message
news:128ltk6iktlrp20@corp.supernews.com...


"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net...


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization
from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant
nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant
nature that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other
deviants, just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.


I bet many believe the same about bigoted intolerant moralistic bible
thumpers such as yourself.


Perhaps, but I see veryu little evidence of that here.

You see very little evidence that people don't want to be bothered by bible
thumpers?
Are you retarded?







Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.


Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.


How?

Has it leant validity to wife beating trailer trash?

No. Wife beating is not condoned. Just like gay sex is not condoned.

When a marriage goes sour (wife beating), social acceptance is out the
window. When gays try to make social order, acceptance is out the window.

In your opinion only.
You have no evidence to present to back up your assumptions.
.



User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 12 Jun 2006 12:28:00 PM
In article <GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> writes:


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant nature
that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other deviants,
just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.



Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.


Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.

That's entirely different from "cramming it down your throat".
I daresay that if gay marriage were legalized nation-wide
tomorrow, it would have exactly zero impact on you personally or
on your own marriage.
And if it did somehow impact either you personally or your own marriage,
I'd suggest the problem is neither with gays, the institution of
marriage, or society in general. The problem would be much
closer to home.
-- cary
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 14 Jun 2006 10:02:16 PM
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6k870$5a3$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net> "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@yahoo.com> writes:


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization
from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant
nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant
nature
that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other deviants,
just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.



Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.


Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.


That's entirely different from "cramming it down your throat".
I daresay that if gay marriage were legalized nation-wide
tomorrow, it would have exactly zero impact on you personally or
on your own marriage.

Perhaps that is true, but it is beside the point.
We could release all of the bank robbers too, and the odds are good that I
would not be affected. There is the Mormon (sic) guy, William Jeffers(?)
that is marrying little girls into polygomous marriages. This does not
affect me, but I oppose his actions, and the "marriages" he performs should
ALL be reviewed, and many of them should be annulled or reversed or whatever
the legal term would be to wipe them out. Just because there is action that
has very little, if any, affect on me personnally is not a measure of the
validity of the action.
I reject homosexuality. Period. I do not want to give it social recognition
or validity. I do not sit here and organize raids on gay people, or call
others to harm them. I reject the harm that some bestow upon gay couples,
but I still reject homosexuality. I also reject sex with goats, but since
there is little support for this sort of thing, the rejection is okay. You
seem to value rejection based upon the popularity of that which is rejected.
I've got news for you, the gay community is very small -- read, not very
popular -- why do you argue so strenuously to give them validation? If gays
were to marry, I'd bet the affect on you would be about the same as the
affect on me.
.


User: "Cary Kittrell"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 12 Jun 2006 12:22:59 PM
In article <GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net> "Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> writes:


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant nature
that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other deviants,
just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.

So it's knowing that they're in the world which upsets you. Somehow
I can't feel as sorry for your distress as I might.




Polls suggest that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to gay
marriage, but the same polls have found that the same Americans do not
feel
that a Constitutional amendment is needed. The sad thing is the vast
majority of Americnas is wrong, we do need an amendment to voice our
position on the matter and keep liberal activist judges from cramming
homosexuality down our collective throats.


Beg pardon? If Steve and Lance get married, how is this "cramming"
homosexuality down your throat? I mean, it's not like you're going to
get invited to the honeymoon.


Marriage lends social validity to that which society rejects.

.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 14 Jun 2006 09:51:32 PM
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6k7tj$4cf$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

In article <GoidnZ9NcMQBbhfZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@ez2.net> "Jeff Strickland"
<crwlr@yahoo.com> writes:


"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e6ahvd$hct$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com>



<leonard78sp@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149761187.420620.101780@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage

A proposed amendment to the Constitution can't
muster enough support for an up-or-down vote.
A House measure is seen as similarly doomed.


We ought not need to amend the Constitution to protect civilization
from
fudge packers.

Be gay if you want, but please do not bother me with your deviant
nature.


And how, pray tell, have gays been bothering you?


They don't bother me when I don't know about them. It's their deviant
nature
that I don't want to be bothered with. Be a deviant with other deviants,
just be discrete about it, and keep it to yourself.


So it's knowing that they're in the world which upsets you. Somehow
I can't feel as sorry for your distress as I might.

I don't give a rat's ***** that they are in the world. I don't want to give
them social validity. I think that society has a right to not accept the gay
lifestyle, and granting gay marriage IS accepting the gay lifestyle. I have
no destress at all, until I have to recognize gay marriage. I utterly and
without prejudice, reject all that is the gay lifestyle. It really is that
simple.
I have two gay couples that live directly across the street from me. They
are nice people, and they attend block parties with all of the other
neighbors, and we all stop in the street to visit and chat. But, I still
reject homosexuality, even if I like the people that do it. Well, I like
some of them, but I only like some of the straight peolep too, so NOT liking
the person has more to do with the person than the lifestyle.
I see no contradiction at all. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Why do yo make
it more complicated than that?
.
User: "Bob LeChevalier"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 15 Jun 2006 06:21:33 PM
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:

I don't give a rat's ***** that they are in the world. I don't want to give
them social validity. I think that society has a right to not accept the gay
lifestyle,

Society has NO right to not "accept" any lifestyle that is NOT in
violation of law. It has been ruled that sexual behavior in private
is NOT subject to regulation by law, and therefore society has NO
right to say squat about it.
lojbab
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 15 Jun 2006 09:18:03 AM
Jeff Strickland wrote:


I don't give a rat's ***** that they are in the world. I don't want to give
them social validity. I think that society has a right to not accept the gay
lifestyle, and granting gay marriage IS accepting the gay lifestyle. I have
no destress at all, until I have to recognize gay marriage. I utterly and
without prejudice, reject all that is the gay lifestyle. It really is that
simple.

Without prejudice? An intellectually honest position would be that you
are prejudiced against gays.

I have two gay couples that live directly across the street from me. They
are nice people, and they attend block parties with all of the other
neighbors, and we all stop in the street to visit and chat. But, I still
reject homosexuality, even if I like the people that do it.

I see no contradiction at all. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Why do yo make
it more complicated than that?

You may like a gay person for other things, but if you care to be
honest you hate that they are gay. This behavior (what you
do)/identity (who you are) dichotomy is lame. You position is that
some people should live their life without fulfilling their fundamental
human need for initimate, romantic love - condeming them to a life of
lonliness - simply because of who they are.
Josh Rosenbluth
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 15 Jun 2006 11:01:31 PM
<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150381083.303368.31970@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:


I don't give a rat's ***** that they are in the world. I don't want to give
them social validity. I think that society has a right to not accept the
gay
lifestyle, and granting gay marriage IS accepting the gay lifestyle. I
have
no destress at all, until I have to recognize gay marriage. I utterly and
without prejudice, reject all that is the gay lifestyle. It really is
that
simple.


Without prejudice? An intellectually honest position would be that you
are prejudiced against gays.

If you actually knew what "without prejudice" meant, you would say that.

I have two gay couples that live directly across the street from me. They
are nice people, and they attend block parties with all of the other
neighbors, and we all stop in the street to visit and chat. But, I still
reject homosexuality, even if I like the people that do it.

I see no contradiction at all. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Why do yo
make
it more complicated than that?


You may like a gay person for other things, but if you care to be
honest you hate that they are gay. This behavior (what you
do)/identity (who you are) dichotomy is lame. You position is that
some people should live their life without fulfilling their fundamental
human need for initimate, romantic love - condeming them to a life of
lonliness - simply because of who they are.

Josh Rosenbluth

Josh, I don't care that they are gay. That is their problem, not mine. I
ONLY don't think that as a society, we should be forced to give them social
recognition via our marriage laws. I don't deny them the fundamental need
for intimacy, I just don't agree with how they seek to get it. Be intimate
all you want, but if you are not going to be intimate in accordance to
social standards -- as evidenced by a multitude of public visits to polling
stations across the country -- then you will have to be intimate on your
own, and deal with it by yourself, or with your partner. Too bad, so sad.
Marriage laws give a couple certain rights that non-married people have to
fill out a piece of paper to get. My wife and I automatically can speak for
one another, we automatically pass our possessions to the survivor, those
kinds of things. Non-married people can do the exact same thing, just not
automatically. They have to complete forms that need to be notarized. Big
deal. Complete the form, and move on.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 16 Jun 2006 09:38:53 AM
Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150381083.303368.31970@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:


I see no contradiction at all. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Why do yo
make it more complicated than that?


You may like a gay person for other things, but if you care to be
honest you hate that they are gay. This behavior (what you
do)/identity (who you are) dichotomy is lame. You position is that
some people should live their life without fulfilling their fundamental
human need for initimate, romantic love - condeming them to a life of
lonliness - simply because of who they are.


Josh, I don't care that they are gay. That is their problem, not mine. I
ONLY don't think that as a society, we should be forced to give them social
recognition via our marriage laws. I don't deny them the fundamental need
for intimacy, I just don't agree with how they seek to get it.

You object to the *only* way gays can fulfill their fundamental need
for intimacy. Thus, you object to *any* intimacy for gay people.

Be intimate
all you want, but if you are not going to be intimate in accordance to
social standards -- as evidenced by a multitude of public visits to polling
stations across the country -- then you will have to be intimate on your
own, and deal with it by yourself, or with your partner. Too bad, so sad.

You are denying equal rights (see below) because you object to gays
having any intimacy.

Marriage laws give a couple certain rights that non-married people have to
fill out a piece of paper to get. My wife and I automatically can speak for
one another, we automatically pass our possessions to the survivor, those
kinds of things. Non-married people can do the exact same thing, just not
automatically. They have to complete forms that need to be notarized. Big
deal. Complete the form, and move on.

Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card? Is a
lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate? Is a gay man
able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if his
employer doesn't allow him? Does a lesbian get Social Security or
veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies? Is a gay man covered by
his lover's employer-provided health insurance if that insurance covers
spouses? Is a lesbian offered the privilege of not incriminating her
lover in court? Is a gay man protected by domestic violence laws that
cover spousal abuse? Do any of your documents protect a lesbian from a
hostile lawsuit (costing gobs of money) concerning estate planning,
visitation rights or living wills?
Josh Rosenbluth
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 17 Jun 2006 08:14:14 AM
<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care. My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could not get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the details -- he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is, lots of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.
Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can avoid the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and this can
flow the assets to the survivor.
Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if his
employer doesn't allow him?

I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem that is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.
Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?

This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very long time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30 years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue here as a
long-term gay relationship.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 17 Jun 2006 08:26:01 AM
Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care.

Yeah, why should you care that the government forces the gay man to
break up his family.

My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could not get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the details -- he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is, lots of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.

Your brother should have hired a lawyer before he got married. My dad
did before he married his second wife (a Belgian). A gay man has no
recourse.

Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can avoid the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and this can
flow the assets to the survivor.

The exemption applies to a non-revokable charitable trust. The
surviving spouse is not a charity.

Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if his
employer doesn't allow him?


I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem that is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.

Either your employer has less than 50 employees or does not engage in
any form of commerce - or he is violating the law. For all but these
exceptions, only the gay man cannot take leave.

Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?


This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very long time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30 years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue here as a
long-term gay relationship.

Your friend had the option to marry and freely chose not to. The
lesbian cannot marry.
Josh Rosenbluth
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 17 Jun 2006 01:40:21 PM
<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150550761.222665.315970@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care.


Yeah, why should you care that the government forces the gay man to
break up his family.

My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could not get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the details -- he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is, lots of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.


Your brother should have hired a lawyer before he got married. My dad
did before he married his second wife (a Belgian). A gay man has no
recourse.

Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can avoid
the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and this
can
flow the assets to the survivor.


The exemption applies to a non-revokable charitable trust. The
surviving spouse is not a charity.

Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if his
employer doesn't allow him?


I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem that is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.


Either your employer has less than 50 employees or does not engage in
any form of commerce - or he is violating the law. For all but these
exceptions, only the gay man cannot take leave.

Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?


This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual
orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very long
time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30
years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue here as a
long-term gay relationship.


Your friend had the option to marry and freely chose not to. The
lesbian cannot marry.

The sexual orientation notwithstanding, or the gender of the gay couple, the
benefits you describe are benefits that many long-term relationships do not
enjoy. We do not know what or why the long-term relationships remain as two
single people, but if they remain single then it is a lifestyle choice.
I don't care. Call me cold-hearted, I see no reason to change public policy
that is thousands of years old in terms of mankind, and in excess of 225
years old in terms of the USA. I don't wee any reason to change that that
is. I have no malintent or malace towards gay couples. They have made a
choice to live beyond society, and they have to deal with it.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 17 Jun 2006 02:02:37 PM
Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150550761.222665.315970@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care.


Yeah, why should you care that the government forces the gay man to
break up his family.

My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could not get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the details -- he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is, lots of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.


Your brother should have hired a lawyer before he got married. My dad
did before he married his second wife (a Belgian). A gay man has no
recourse.

Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can avoid
the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and this
can
flow the assets to the survivor.


The exemption applies to a non-revokable charitable trust. The
surviving spouse is not a charity.

Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if his
employer doesn't allow him?


I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem that is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.


Either your employer has less than 50 employees or does not engage in
any form of commerce - or he is violating the law. For all but these
exceptions, only the gay man cannot take leave.

Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?


This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual
orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very long
time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30
years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue here as a
long-term gay relationship.


Your friend had the option to marry and freely chose not to. The
lesbian cannot marry.



The sexual orientation notwithstanding, or the gender of the gay couple, the
benefits you describe are benefits that many long-term relationships do not
enjoy. We do not know what or why the long-term relationships remain as two
single people, but if they remain single then it is a lifestyle choice.

I don't care. Call me cold-hearted, I see no reason to change public policy
that is thousands of years old in terms of mankind, and in excess of 225
years old in terms of the USA. I don't wee any reason to change that that
is. I have no malintent or malace towards gay couples.

Stop the BS and honestly defend your position for what it is -
discrimination against gays which you think is a good thing. How can
you claim no malice towards gay couples when you are denying them equal
rights?

They have made a
choice to live beyond society, and they have to deal with it.

What choice? They don't choose to be single, that's forced on them.
Josh Rosenbluth
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 18 Jun 2006 12:39:53 PM
<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150570956.983180.73680@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150550761.222665.315970@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care.


Yeah, why should you care that the government forces the gay man to
break up his family.

My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could not
get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the details --
he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is, lots
of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.


Your brother should have hired a lawyer before he got married. My dad
did before he married his second wife (a Belgian). A gay man has no
recourse.

Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can
avoid
the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and
this
can
flow the assets to the survivor.


The exemption applies to a non-revokable charitable trust. The
surviving spouse is not a charity.

Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if
his
employer doesn't allow him?


I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about
unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem that
is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.


Either your employer has less than 50 employees or does not engage in
any form of commerce - or he is violating the law. For all but these
exceptions, only the gay man cannot take leave.

Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?


This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual
orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very long
time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30
years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue here
as a
long-term gay relationship.


Your friend had the option to marry and freely chose not to. The
lesbian cannot marry.



The sexual orientation notwithstanding, or the gender of the gay couple,
the
benefits you describe are benefits that many long-term relationships do
not
enjoy. We do not know what or why the long-term relationships remain as
two
single people, but if they remain single then it is a lifestyle choice.

I don't care. Call me cold-hearted, I see no reason to change public
policy
that is thousands of years old in terms of mankind, and in excess of 225
years old in terms of the USA. I don't wee any reason to change that that
is. I have no malintent or malace towards gay couples.


Stop the BS and honestly defend your position for what it is -
discrimination against gays which you think is a good thing. How can
you claim no malice towards gay couples when you are denying them equal
rights?

Complete and utter rejection of selecting a same sex life partner is not
discrimination.
I do not deny them equal rights. I think they deserve the same rights as any
non-married couple. Period. Marriage is between one man and one woman. Not
one man and 5 women, or any other combination other than one man and one
woman. That is marriage. And, one man and one woman might not be a marriage
but that is another issue.

They have made a
choice to live beyond society, and they have to deal with it.


What choice? They don't choose to be single, that's forced on them.

They choose a same sex life partner. That is a choice. I reject that choice.
I am not alone in that rejection.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 18 Jun 2006 05:51:10 PM
Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150570956.983180.73680@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150550761.222665.315970@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care.


Yeah, why should you care that the government forces the gay man to
break up his family.

My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could not
get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the details --
he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is, lots
of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.


Your brother should have hired a lawyer before he got married. My dad
did before he married his second wife (a Belgian). A gay man has no
recourse.

Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can
avoid
the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and
this
can
flow the assets to the survivor.


The exemption applies to a non-revokable charitable trust. The
surviving spouse is not a charity.

Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even if
his
employer doesn't allow him?


I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about
unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem that
is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.


Either your employer has less than 50 employees or does not engage in
any form of commerce - or he is violating the law. For all but these
exceptions, only the gay man cannot take leave.

Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?


This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual
orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very long
time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30
years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue here
as a
long-term gay relationship.


Your friend had the option to marry and freely chose not to. The
lesbian cannot marry.



The sexual orientation notwithstanding, or the gender of the gay couple,
the
benefits you describe are benefits that many long-term relationships do
not
enjoy. We do not know what or why the long-term relationships remain as
two
single people, but if they remain single then it is a lifestyle choice.

I don't care. Call me cold-hearted, I see no reason to change public
policy
that is thousands of years old in terms of mankind, and in excess of 225
years old in terms of the USA. I don't wee any reason to change that that
is. I have no malintent or malace towards gay couples.


Stop the BS and honestly defend your position for what it is -
discrimination against gays which you think is a good thing. How can
you claim no malice towards gay couples when you are denying them equal
rights?


Complete and utter rejection of selecting a same sex life partner is not
discrimination.

I do not deny them equal rights. I think they deserve the same rights as any
non-married couple. Period.

Which you means you are denying them equal rights because straight
people can choose to be either married or not, gay people must be
single.

They have made a
choice to live beyond society, and they have to deal with it.


What choice? They don't choose to be single, that's forced on them.

They choose a same sex life partner. That is a choice. I reject that choice.
I am not alone in that rejection.

It's not a choice. They are gay. Their life partner has to be someone
of the same sex.
Josh Rosenbluth
.
User: "Jeff Strickland"

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 19 Jun 2006 11:38:32 PM
<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150671070.180530.102150@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150570956.983180.73680@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150550761.222665.315970@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...


Jeff Strickland wrote:

<jrosenbluth@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1150468732.993796.317380@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...


Can a gay man sponsor his non-citizen lover for his green card?

Don't know, don't care.


Yeah, why should you care that the government forces the gay man to
break up his family.

My brother had difficulty sponsoring a non-citizen
SPOUSE for a green card. He married in another country, and could
not
get
his bride into this country. Sorry, I don't know all of the
details --
he
was military at the time, she was a Philippino. Bottom line is,
lots
of
people have trouble dealing with immigration.


Your brother should have hired a lawyer before he got married. My
dad
did before he married his second wife (a Belgian). A gay man has no
recourse.

Is a

lesbian exempt from the estate tax on her lover's estate?

If they establish proper legal documents, then I suppose they can
avoid
the
estate tax. I'm pretty sure that they can put assets in Trust, and
this
can
flow the assets to the survivor.


The exemption applies to a non-revokable charitable trust. The
surviving spouse is not a charity.

Is a gay man

able to take family and medical leave when his lover is ill even
if
his
employer doesn't allow him?


I'm in a job now where I can't take medical leave. What about
unmarried
straight couples, they have this problem too. This is a problem
that
is
unique to marriage status, not sexual orientation.


Either your employer has less than 50 employees or does not engage
in
any form of commerce - or he is violating the law. For all but
these
exceptions, only the gay man cannot take leave.

Does a lesbian get Social Security or

veterans spousal benefits when her lover dies?


This is an issue that is unique to marriage status, not sexual
orientation.
There are lots of people that live outside of marriage for a very
long
time,
I have a high school buddy that has live with his girlfriend for 30
years. I
don't know why they never married, but they have the same issue
here
as a
long-term gay relationship.


Your friend had the option to marry and freely chose not to. The
lesbian cannot marry.



The sexual orientation notwithstanding, or the gender of the gay
couple,
the
benefits you describe are benefits that many long-term relationships
do
not
enjoy. We do not know what or why the long-term relationships remain
as
two
single people, but if they remain single then it is a lifestyle
choice.

I don't care. Call me cold-hearted, I see no reason to change public
policy
that is thousands of years old in terms of mankind, and in excess of
225
years old in terms of the USA. I don't wee any reason to change that
that
is. I have no malintent or malace towards gay couples.


Stop the BS and honestly defend your position for what it is -
discrimination against gays which you think is a good thing. How can
you claim no malice towards gay couples when you are denying them equal
rights?


Complete and utter rejection of selecting a same sex life partner is not
discrimination.

I do not deny them equal rights. I think they deserve the same rights as
any
non-married couple. Period.


Which you means you are denying them equal rights because straight
people can choose to be either married or not, gay people must be
single.

They have made a
choice to live beyond society, and they have to deal with it.


What choice? They don't choose to be single, that's forced on them.

They choose a same sex life partner. That is a choice. I reject that
choice.
I am not alone in that rejection.


It's not a choice. They are gay. Their life partner has to be someone
of the same sex.

The gay guy across the street from me has two teen-aged daughters. HE had a
life partner at some point in his past that was not of the same sex. He
decided AFTER he had kids that he liked men better. He made a choice. I
reject the choice, therefore I reject the petition to marry. And, I do not
feel bad about my rejection.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Senate Blocks Ban on Gay Marriage 20 Jun 2006 03:11:58 AM
"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr@yahoo.com> wrote:

:|The gay guy across the street from me has two teen-aged daughters. HE had a
:|life partner at some point in his past that was not of the same sex. He
:|decided AFTER he had kids that he liked men better. He made a choice. I
:|reject the choice, therefore I reject the petition to marry. And, I do not
:|feel bad about my rejection.

Your sinful judging is only surpassed by your ignorance, self-righteous
blindness and bigotry
What a piece of work you are.
For those who may not remember or know
But jeffy is famous for his ignorance
Yes, you do love to flaunt your ignorance
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.democrats.d/msg/01961b0e44a090eb?hl=en&
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?J49E320FB
Jeff Strickland displays his "intelligence and knowledge"
"Jeff Strickland" wrote:

:|But the Adams son was a child, or relative child, when the Adams father was
:|Prez.

ACTUAL FACTS:
John Adams 1735-1826.
President 1797-1801
John Q. Adams 1767-1848
President 1825-1829
J.Q. Adams was approx 30 years old when his father was elected president.
That hardly makes him a child or relative child
One more time jeffy dazzles us with his ignorance
********************************************************************
NOTE THE CONFUSION IN HIS OWN THINKING:
Not mandatory, but federal law permits, indeed it compels--or nearly
compels—
hehehehe
Jeffy strickland wrote

:|But reciting the Pledge is not a mandatory activity, the clients can opt out
:|of the daily exercise if they want to. Even Newdow's own daughter could opt
:|out, but he was not satisfied with that because she was still exposed to the
:|word, God coming from the other children.
:|
:|And Federal Law permits the recital of the Pledge, indeed it compels -- or
:|nearly compels -- the recital. State Education Code is attempting to follow
:|Federal Law in this regard.

ACTUAL FACTS:
Jeffy - I don't know sh*t about law - strickland messes up AGAIN
Ever hear of this before
http://66.34.103.193/ufc/Other/Gov-Religion/Pledge.htm
1943: The Supreme Court rules that students can not be forced to recite
the pledge. (West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette)
The USSC has also stated that "opting out, such as leaving the room, etc is
not acceptable.
************************************
Jeffy - I am "against" vouchers but I have offered every pro voucher
argument ever offered on the internet in voucher discussions for at least a
year to two years now - strickland
******************************************
[Jeffy had asked another]

Why do you feel the constant need to be nasty?

To you? Because you are an ignoramus who not only does not check his
facts, but posts endlessly repeating stuff that has been disproven
several times. You also seem to think that your unsupported opinion
is of interest to other people.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier,
**********************************
[To that I add]
Jeff - I don't have a clue what I am talking about, but I am good at
pretending and making it up as I go along so don't confuse me with the
facts, my mind is made up. I stereotype and prejudge. It has always worked
well in the past, why change now - Strickland
**********
Jeffy -- maybe, I heard, but didn't bother to do any independent research,
[ He says it gives him a headache] I like to believe things I want to hear.
I don't like knowing the facts if they aren't going to agree with what I
want to believe and I especially love passing along on the internet, as
facts, things I haven't a clue about their accuracy -- Strickland )
*******************************
[To Jeff Strickland]
I find it "interesting" that you are so incredibly stupid that you totally
missed the citation to the _New York Times_.
You seem to have remembered to take your one-a-day stupid pills.
Gray Shockley
**********
"Jeff Strickland" <beerman@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think I see more intolerance.
"Gray Shockley" <gray-87a@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
Oh, no, no, no.
You neither "think" nor "see".
Is that better?
*******************************
Jeff Strickland wrote:

I find it interesting that when Carol is unable to find the link, you ignore
the request for assistance. But, when I am unable to find the link (and
volunteer twice that I have looked), you jump in with a snide remark that
"the search was not too difficult," as though I am the idiot.

[Joni said]
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply you are an idiot. I meant to just
come right out and say you are an idiot.
**************************************
[another time Joni asked Jeffy]
Were you born this stupid or did you take a class?
**************************************
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:12:45 -0500, Jeff Strickland wrote

The ACLU is not mentioned in this story, but I believe they have been
mentioned in other stories on the same topic with the same county. Perhaps I
am being a bit reactionary to point my boney fingers at the ACLU,

You don't mind that some of us consider you a pschopathetic liar, do you?
After all, you seem to create "facts" just like your spiritual
great-great-great-great-great grandfather, Richard "I'll ***** You" Cheney.
Are you so [drunk, stoned, Bushed, freaked out] that you even realize how
much - and how many - of your posts are lies?
Are you truly stupid or totally insane?
Gray Shockley
**************************************
[jeffy was asked]
Can you back this up with truthful citations or is this just more of your
"lies manufactured especially for any and all occasions by Jeffie
Strickland"?
Gray Shockley
Vicksburg, MS
**************************************
As you, Jeffie the Wack Strickland, are quite obviously the product of no
education whatsoever.
Gray Shockley
**************************************
[jeffy had said]

It is the mother that has custodial and full guardianship
rights of the child. Newdow has no rights relative to this child and her
rearing.

YOU STUPID FUCKING ILLITERATE MORON, READ WHAT YOU AGREED
WITH EARLIER! THE COURTS HAVE RULED THAT NONCUSTODIAL
PARENTS **DO** HAVE RIGHTS TO THE RELIGIOUS UPBRINGING
OF THEIR CHILDREN, YOU BRAIN-DAMAGED TURD!
Merlyn LeRoy
*********************************************************
Said to Jeff Strickland
Because you are clueless, seeing an objection when there is none, and
failing to understand the objection that I do have.
Aren't you again showing your cluelessness? Yes.
lojbab
********************************************************
[Larry Hewitt said to Jeff Strickland]

Seeing that you deleted my links to the US census and a current news
report
that both proved you to be factually incorrect, I conclude that you
acknowledge your failure and chose to try to lie your way out of your
defeat.

larry

[jeff replied ]

Those links show NOTHING relative to this discussion.

[Larry naidled jeff with]
So you deleted them because you were afraid I was making a fool of myself
in
public, and you wanted to shield me from that humiliation??
Nah, you're just a rightard liar.
Larry
*********************************************************
Jeff Strickland said

Attack the messenger, never the message. How many times have I seen this
before?

Lots. Because you're a stupid *****.
I'm not even saying this to be insulting. You really are genuinely stupid.
You enter legal discussions without having the slightest idea of the legal
issues involved, and you show no signs of being educable.
Merlyn LeRoy
**************************************************************
Strickland said

Your language demonstrates a certain level of education in itself.

No, it demonstrates that I don't suffer fools gladly.
You demonstrate that you can't reason well, because
using phrases like "stupid *****" indicates nothing about
the speaker's education level.
Merlyn LeRoy
----------------------------------------------------
strickland

Because I take a position opposite of yours? That's rich.

No, because you're obviously stupid, and ignorant of how the courts
work, yet that doesn't stop you from shooting your mouth off.
You really are an ignorant *****.
Merlyn LeRoy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
strickland

Yeah, "ignorant *****" is precise. Idiot.

Yes, for you, it is. You shoot your mouth off in complete ignorance.
Repeatedly. You're an "ignorant *****".
Merlyn LeRoy
.