| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Godzilla Pimp" |
| Date: |
30 Dec 2003 06:31:11 AM |
| Object: |
Shut down the colleges |
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
GP
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 08:29:39 AM |
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"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Are you a complete moron?
.
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 10:05:45 AM |
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"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in news:nZfIb.26412$T2.7768
@fe1.columbus.rr.com:
"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Are you a complete moron?
He seems to be, along with rest of the
"colleges preaching liberal agenda" nitwits.
.
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 12:51:39 PM |
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"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94616771FC141ta2eenew@216.148.227.77...
"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in news:nZfIb.26412$T2.7768
@fe1.columbus.rr.com:
"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be
traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Are you a complete moron?
He seems to be, along with rest of the
"colleges preaching liberal agenda" nitwits.
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable. This does not mean that we close them down, rather we
need to hire more professors such as Robert Bork, Walter Williams, Newt
Gingrich, ***** Armey, and Phil Gramm.
.
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| User: "Dwain" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 01:12:01 PM |
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In article <%OjIb.27775$T2.6864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>, says...
"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94616771FC141ta2eenew@216.148.227.77...
"David Hartung" < > wrote in news:nZfIb.26412$T2.7768
@fe1.columbus.rr.com:
"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be
traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Are you a complete moron?
He seems to be, along with rest of the
"colleges preaching liberal agenda" nitwits.
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable.
Might you define "leftwing agenda"? I doubt many university presidents and regents are
left wing. All that I know are definitely conservative.
If perhaps you mean that liberal arts colleges have a liberal philosophy, then with that I
can agree. After all, universities and colleges are FOUNDED on liberal philosophy (i.e.,
offer a broad range of curriculum and plenty of room for a variety of discourse.)
By the way, what kind of art and history would a "rightwing agenda" university teach?
Would all languages but English be banned? Would three quarters of the world's greatest
authors and philosophers books be banned from the classrooms?
This does not mean that we close them down, rather we
need to hire more professors such as Robert Bork, Walter Williams, Newt
Gingrich, ***** Armey, and Phil Gramm.
I bet a 20th Century American history class taught by Henry Kissenger would be highly
enlightening.
.
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 08:27:04 AM |
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"Dwain" <SorryImNot@HereAnymore.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a5b6e3e571ada369896c8@news.sonic.net...
In article <%OjIb.27775$T2.6864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>,
says...
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable.
Might you define "leftwing agenda"? I doubt many university presidents and
regents are
left wing. All that I know are definitely conservative.
Perhaps the word agenda is not the best choice, but it seems that the
culture of many of our colleges and universities are supportive of left wing
ideals, while at the same time they seem to hold more conservative ideals in
disdain.
If perhaps you mean that liberal arts colleges have a liberal philosophy,
then with that I
can agree. After all, universities and colleges are FOUNDED on liberal
philosophy (i.e.,
offer a broad range of curriculum and plenty of room for a variety of
discourse.)
Modern liberalsim, at least as it seems to be practiced in the United
States, demands acceptance of all things which are "left wing" and actively
seeks to suppress the more conservative and traditional ideals.
By the way, what kind of art and history would a "rightwing agenda"
university teach?
Would all languages but English be banned? Would three quarters of the
world's greatest
authors and philosophers books be banned from the classrooms?
Perhaps a "right wing" school would not shout down conservative speakers, it
would celebrate achievement, capitalism, limited government, and individual
liberty.
This does not mean that we close them down, rather we
need to hire more professors such as Robert Bork, Walter Williams, Newt
Gingrich, ***** Armey, and Phil Gramm.
I bet a 20th Century American history class taught by Henry Kissenger
would be highly
enlightening.
1. I am not sure that Dr. Kissinger is any sort of conservative.
2. It is entirely possible that Dr. Kissingere might teach a very good 20th
Century American History course.
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 08:49:53 AM |
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"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
"Dwain" <SorryImNot@HereAnymore.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a5b6e3e571ada369896c8@news.sonic.net...
In article <%OjIb.27775$T2.6864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>,
dhart1ng@quixnet.net
says...
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable.
Might you define "leftwing agenda"? I doubt many university presidents
and
regents are
left wing. All that I know are definitely conservative.
Perhaps the word agenda is not the best choice, but it seems that the
culture of many of our colleges and universities are supportive of left
wing ideals, while at the same time they seem to hold more conservative
ideals in disdain.
If by "left wing ideals" you mean opposing
racism, separating church and state, recognizing
privacy rights and upholding the Bill of Rights,
then yes, maybe some colleges DO have left wing
ideals.
If perhaps you mean that liberal arts colleges have a liberal
philosophy,
then with that I
can agree. After all, universities and colleges are FOUNDED on liberal
philosophy (i.e.,
offer a broad range of curriculum and plenty of room for a variety of
discourse.)
Modern liberalsim, at least as it seems to be practiced in the United
States, demands acceptance of all things which are "left wing" and
actively seeks to suppress the more conservative and traditional ideals.
You mean the "traditional ideals" practiced
at Bob Jones U?
By the way, what kind of art and history would a "rightwing agenda"
university teach?
Would all languages but English be banned? Would three quarters of the
world's greatest
authors and philosophers books be banned from the classrooms?
Perhaps a "right wing" school would not shout down conservative
speakers, it would celebrate achievement, capitalism, limited
government, and individual liberty.
When have conservatives ever celebrated
acheivement, practiced limited government or
expanded individual liberty?
Mitchell Holman
"There ought to be limits to freedom."
George Bush, while trying to shut down
a website doing a parody of him, 1999.
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 04:19:55 PM |
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"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94625A954F5B2ta2eenew@204.127.199.17...
"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
Modern liberalsim, at least as it seems to be practiced in the United
States, demands acceptance of all things which are "left wing" and
actively seeks to suppress the more conservative and traditional ideals.
You mean the "traditional ideals" practiced
at Bob Jones U?
I am not real familiar with Bob Jones U, other than that they seem to have a
high academic rating. What sort of tings are you referring to?
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 04:53:05 PM |
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"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:fYHIb.105774$031.98291@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94625A954F5B2ta2eenew@204.127.199.17...
"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
Modern liberalsim, at least as it seems to be practiced in the United
States, demands acceptance of all things which are "left wing" and
actively seeks to suppress the more conservative and traditional
ideals.
You mean the "traditional ideals" practiced
at Bob Jones U?
I am not real familiar with Bob Jones U, other than that they seem to
have a high academic rating. What sort of tings are you referring to?
A campus-wide ban on blacks dating whites
come to mind? "Traditional ideals" in some
places, apparently.
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 04:21:57 PM |
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"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94625A954F5B2ta2eenew@204.127.199.17...
"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
Perhaps a "right wing" school would not shout down conservative
speakers, it would celebrate achievement, capitalism, limited
government, and individual liberty.
When have conservatives ever celebrated
acheivement, practiced limited government or
expanded individual liberty?
Modern conservatives believe in all that, the bunch which now controls the
Republican Party do not necessarily meet the definition of "conservative".
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| User: "Gary DeWaay" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
03 Jan 2004 10:01:39 PM |
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David Hartung, typed...
When have conservatives ever celebrated
acheivement, practiced limited government or
expanded individual liberty?
Modern conservatives believe in all that, the bunch which now controls the
Republican Party do not necessarily meet the definition of "conservative".
Interesting. Who are the modern conservatives, and who are the bunch
you are talking about?
Gary
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 04:18:26 PM |
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"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94625A954F5B2ta2eenew@204.127.199.17...
"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
If by "left wing ideals" you mean opposing
racism, separating church and state, recognizing
privacy rights and upholding the Bill of Rights,
then yes, maybe some colleges DO have left wing
ideals.
The American Left does not oppose racism, and the quotas of various
collegiate affirmative action programs are the proof.
The American left does not merely wish to "separate" church and state, they
wish to completely stifle all Christian expression in the Public square.
The American Left does not recognize privacy rights, just look at their
reaction at comments made at a birthday party by Trent Lott.
The American Left does not uphold the Bill of Rights, just look at their
desire to disarm the American People, prevent the free exercise of religion,
and their support of the intrusion of the Federal Government into every
aspect of our lives.
The American left does support the subordination of our national sovereignty
to the UN, as shown by their demand that we accede to the UN in Iraq.
The American Left does support government control of private business, as
shown by their constant attacks on successful businesses such as Microsoft
and Wal-Mart.
The American Left does support the nationalization of 1/7th of our national
economy, as shown by their support for "Hilarycare"
The American left does oppose limited government, as shown by their constant
demands for government fixes to social issues(although to be honest, some so
called conservatives are just as bad).
The American Left does oppose individual Liberty, as shown by their constant
opposition to such things as homeschooling.
.
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 05:04:20 PM |
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"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:SWHIb.105773$031.58850@fe3.columbus.rr.com:
"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94625A954F5B2ta2eenew@204.127.199.17...
"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
If by "left wing ideals" you mean opposing
racism, separating church and state, recognizing
privacy rights and upholding the Bill of Rights,
then yes, maybe some colleges DO have left wing
ideals.
The American Left does not oppose racism, and the quotas of various
collegiate affirmative action programs are the proof.
Are you saying that West Point and the Naval
Academy - both of which use affirmative action
quotas - are "leftwing" colleges?
The American left does not merely wish to "separate" church and state,
they wish to completely stifle all Christian expression in the Public
square.
You misspelled "Christian expression at public expense".
You are free to broadcast your religion. You are not free
to use public money to endorse one religion over others.
The American Left does not recognize privacy rights, just look at their
reaction at comments made at a birthday party by Trent Lott.
Excuse me? Which side of the political
spectrum is demanding privacy rights for
gays and privacy rights for pregnant women?
Which side, in opposition, is claiming
abortion rights and gay rights are illegal
because of "no right to privacy in the
Constitution"?
The American Left does not uphold the Bill of Rights, just look at their
desire to disarm the American People, prevent the free exercise of
religion, and their support of the intrusion of the Federal Government
into every aspect of our lives.
Oh, yes, DO show us where the Constitution
allows Bush to jail American citizens indefinately
without charges and without a chance to defend
themselves.
The American left does support the subordination of our national
sovereignty to the UN, as shown by their demand that we accede to the UN
in Iraq.
Modern Conservative: Someone who can
take time out from bashing the UN and
claiming we are not bound by it to state
that we were compelled by UN resolutions
to launch an unprovoked war against Iraq.
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 05:45:19 PM |
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In article <SWHIb.105773$031.58850@fe3.columbus.rr.com> "David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> writes:
<
<
<"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eeneNoEmail@comcast.com> wrote in message
<news:Xns94625A954F5B2ta2eenew„.127.199.17...
<> "David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in
<> news:Y0BIb.39958$ms2.18243@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
<
<> If by "left wing ideals" you mean opposing
<> racism, separating church and state, recognizing
<> privacy rights and upholding the Bill of Rights,
<> then yes, maybe some colleges DO have left wing
<> ideals.
<
<The American Left does not oppose racism, and the quotas of various
<collegiate affirmative action programs are the proof.
Correct, it was famously the right wing that marched at Selma,
supported the Chavez boycott, registered voters in Montgomery.
But I will grant you that the left frets more about the rights of minorities
than it does about the plight of the dominant race.
<
<The American left does not merely wish to "separate" church and state, they
<wish to completely stifle all Christian expression in the Public square.
Really? Come preach on my campus mall if you think that. Bring your
PA system and your backup chicks, others do just that every day. Or
hand out leaflets on the street corner if you like; no one will stop
you. Hold prayer meetings in the public park. Proselytize over
the internet. Send out email to random strangers praising Jesus. Call me
on the phone or leave leaflets on my front door; you would hardly be the first.
In other words, you can be just as unstiffled as you wish. Just don't confuse
the schools or courts with "the Public Square". Neither is.
<
<The American Left does not recognize privacy rights, just look at their
<reaction at comments made at a birthday party by Trent Lott.
Yeah, just look at how they broke into his mailbox, riffled his papers,
and decoded his email. Either that, or Lott's remarks were relayed
by reporters who had been invited to the event by the organizers
of the event. How dare reporters report!
<
<The American Left does not uphold the Bill of Rights, just look at their
<desire to disarm the American People,
Among them, a number of my friends have sufficient armament to overthrow
a small Central American country. Before lunch. All owned compeltely
legally.
<prevent the free exercise of religion,
You no more have the right to exercise your religion every single place
that you may care to than I have the right to speak my mind every
single place I care to. I can't stand up in church and discuss
the virtues of secular humanism, for example.
<and their support of the intrusion of the Federal Government into every
<aspect of our lives.
<
<The American left does support the subordination of our national sovereignty
<to the UN, as shown by their demand that we accede to the UN in Iraq.
As shown by the Prez's pretext that for once, just this once, we were
obliged to invade another country simply to uphold a UN resolution.
<
<The American Left does support government control of private business, as
<shown by their constant attacks on successful businesses such as Microsoft
<and Wal-Mart.
Tell it to that notorious leftist Teddy Roosevelt.
<
<The American Left does support the nationalization of 1/7th of our national
<economy, as shown by their support for "Hilarycare"
Not a bad idea. One that, in some form or other, must happen sooner
or later. To a non-trivial extent, it already has.
<
<The American left does oppose limited government, as shown by their constant
<demands for government fixes to social issues(although to be honest, some so
<called conservatives are just as bad).
Too true. Just look at the gargantuan current budget, with its attendent
record deficits, rammed through that Deomcrat-controlled House and Democrat-
controlled Sentate, subsequently signed by the sitting Democratic President.
<
<The American Left does oppose individual Liberty, as shown by their constant
<opposition to such things as homeschooling.
I've never heard a single liberal object to homeschooling. I've certainly
never heard one "oppose individual Liberty" by suggesting that it be
made illegal.
-- cary
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| User: "Alan Moore" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 06:52:34 PM |
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:27:04 GMT, "David Hartung"
<> wrote:
"Dwain" <SorryImNot@HereAnymore.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a5b6e3e571ada369896c8@news.sonic.net...
In article <%OjIb.27775$T2.6864@fe1.columbus.rr.com>,
says...
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable.
Might you define "leftwing agenda"? I doubt many university presidents and
regents are
left wing. All that I know are definitely conservative.
Perhaps the word agenda is not the best choice, but it seems that the
culture of many of our colleges and universities are supportive of left wing
ideals, while at the same time they seem to hold more conservative ideals in
disdain.
That's the way you see it. I imagine a left-winger would find the
universities excessively friendly to right wing ideals.
If perhaps you mean that liberal arts colleges have a liberal philosophy,
then with that I
can agree. After all, universities and colleges are FOUNDED on liberal
philosophy (i.e.,
offer a broad range of curriculum and plenty of room for a variety of
discourse.)
Modern liberalsim, at least as it seems to be practiced in the United
States, demands acceptance of all things which are "left wing" and actively
seeks to suppress the more conservative and traditional ideals.
And if you substitute right for left, and swap liberal and
conservative, does this statement become less true? Are conservatives
actually demanding acceptance of all things which are "right wing?"
(isn't that the definition of right wing?) and seeking to supress the
more liberal ideals?
By the way, what kind of art and history would a "rightwing agenda"
university teach?
Would all languages but English be banned? Would three quarters of the
world's greatest
authors and philosophers books be banned from the classrooms?
Perhaps a "right wing" school would not shout down conservative speakers, it
would celebrate achievement, capitalism, limited government, and individual
liberty.
Have you noticed how many very successful people are graduates of
places like Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and so forth? The proportion is
quite remarkable. Thinking critically about capitalism and government
is probably the best preparation for dealing with them.
This does not mean that we close them down, rather we
need to hire more professors such as Robert Bork, Walter Williams, Newt
Gingrich, ***** Armey, and Phil Gramm.
I bet a 20th Century American history class taught by Henry Kissenger
would be highly enlightening.
1. I am not sure that Dr. Kissinger is any sort of conservative.
Dr. Kissinger may safely be regarded as the intellectual parent of the
"Neo-con" group surrounding Bush today. He was Nixon's choice as
Secretary of State, and Nixon was no liberal, by any measure.
2. It is entirely possible that Dr. Kissingere might teach a very good 20th
Century American History course.
He might. He was, after all, a professor of International Relations.
He was well placed to help negotiate the early settlments following
the October war, as both the foreign ministers of Egypt and of Israel
were former students of his. This may have something to do with the
fact that an agreement between those two nations was arranged, but
that one with Syria was not.
.
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| User: "Adam Albright" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 05:05:32 PM |
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:51:39 GMT, "David Hartung"
<dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote:
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable.
But David, you know what most people think of your looney-tune
opinions. A wiser fool would keep them to himself.
This does not mean that we close them down, rather we
need to hire more professors such as Robert Bork, Walter Williams, Newt
Gingrich, ***** Armey, and Phil Gramm.
Oh my God! That's some group of right wingers. Lets see. A dope, a
bigger dope, a skirt chaser, a liar and a bigger liar.
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 06:16:03 PM |
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 17:05:32 -0600, Adam Albright wrote
(in message <9114vvc3r96mbh3feln62vuc9qnvrdmv5g@4ax.com>):
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:51:39 GMT, "David Hartung"
<dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote:
That many colleges and Universities have a leftwing agenda is, in my
opinion, undeniable.
But David, you know what most people think of your looney-tune
opinions. A wiser fool would keep them to himself.
This does not mean that we close them down, rather we
need to hire more professors such as Robert Bork, Walter Williams, Newt
Gingrich, ***** Armey, and Phil Gramm.
Oh my God! That's some group of right wingers. Lets see. A dope, a
bigger dope, a skirt chaser, a liar and a bigger liar.
Now calling ole Newt a "skirt chaser" is coming down a little hard on him.
I thought he had married all of the women he had chased.
Of course, according to pronographic and sexual gossip-rag NewsMax.*****,
"After Newt Gingrich hit the national spotlight in 1994 by becoming the first
Republican speaker of the House in 40 years, he was skewered by reports that
he had served his first wife divorce papers as she lay in a hospital bed
battling cancer." [This was in a column by Big Carl" Limbacher saying that
this was okay because John Kerry did something similar much later.]
And, besides, Newt obviously had a hearing problem and when the real
President "A Thosand Pints of Lite" for every one participating in "The New
World Order" Bush said something political, ole Newt thought he had advocated
being a "Passionate Conservative".
But we can't go for those who are still participating in the D.C. Scam. Fer
instance, Senator "Willie the Knife" Frist, the Publican Disciplanarian,
whose father founded the world's largest HMO ("Humongous Medical Octopus")
and who is a major shareholder in said Octopus who - having at one time being
a very good surgeon - traded his scapel for a #87 Phillips Screwdriver.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one
individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take
command. Very often, that individual is crazy. -Author Unk
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| User: "Mr. N" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 09:50:35 AM |
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"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Sounds like Communism to me.
No thanks.
--
-My Real Name
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| User: "David Hartung" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 12:53:17 PM |
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"Mr. N" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0dade93c0bf0b8d276e5abdf93bbd4c@news.teranews.com...
"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be
traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Sounds like Communism to me.
The thought has occurred to me that Mr. N is trying to pull our legs, I
cannot imagine anyone truly believing that we should close all our
universities.
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| User: "Mr. N" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 12:56:17 PM |
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"David Hartung" <dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote in message
news:xQjIb.27785$T2.19059@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
The thought has occurred to me that Mr. N is trying to pull our legs
You must be missing some posts. That original idiotic comment wasn't from
me.
--
-My Real Name
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| User: "Adam Albright" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 05:09:49 PM |
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:53:17 GMT, "David Hartung"
<dhart1ng@quixnet.net> wrote:
"Mr. N" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0dade93c0bf0b8d276e5abdf93bbd4c@news.teranews.com...
"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in message
news:jeeIb.509$6B.391@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be
traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Sounds like Communism to me.
The thought has occurred to me that Mr. N is trying to pull our legs, I
cannot imagine anyone truly believing that we should close all our
universities.
Just the right wing ones. Oops there really aren't any. Hmmm that
should tell you something David. Higher education for all practical
purposes is free of right wing loon influence. Imagine that.
See, there is hope for the future. One or two more generations of
aging, balding draft dodging foul mouthed useless old farts that lean
so far right they can't stand up straight and then they will be saying
right winger? What the f... is that?
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| User: "Dymax1a" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
31 Dec 2003 09:56:37 AM |
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This is all such nonsense.
Colleges and universities are supposed to be tolerant of a wide range of
views.
It is true that there are many liberal and left-wing professors to be
found. There are also plenty of conservative and apolitical professors
on campus. It is blatant intellectual dishonesty to claim that
universities are all controlled by liberals.
University administrators tend to be much more conservative. Universities
also court the support of government and corporate entities that tend
toward conservatism - whether it's the DOD or some defense corporation.
Trustees are often wealthy Republicans.
Conservatives are just annoyed that they have to tolerate any liberalism
or leftism (much more often the FORMER than the latter) coming out of
college campuses, because they can't bear to hear any of it. They avoid
dialogue on campus, and instead go running to their Republican think tank
masters.
They're strangely silent when one points out that at least these 'radical'
professors don't run their own damn cable network or moonie newspaper.
Follow the money. Last time I checked, there wasn't a liberal version of
Scaife et al.
This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid of
a few English departments?
--
Kerry
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| User: "avenger" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
01 Jan 2004 07:32:32 AM |
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"Dymax1a" <dymax1a@ripc0.com> wrote in message
news:bsurjl$6c7$1@e250.ripco.com...
This is all such nonsense.
Colleges and universities are supposed to be tolerant of a wide range of
views.
It is true that there are many liberal and left-wing professors to be
found. There are also plenty of conservative and apolitical professors
on campus. It is blatant intellectual dishonesty to claim that
universities are all controlled by liberals.
University administrators tend to be much more conservative. Universities
also court the support of government and corporate entities that tend
toward conservatism - whether it's the DOD or some defense corporation.
Trustees are often wealthy Republicans.
Conservatives are just annoyed that they have to tolerate any liberalism
or leftism (much more often the FORMER than the latter) coming out of
college campuses, because they can't bear to hear any of it. They avoid
dialogue on campus, and instead go running to their Republican think tank
masters.
They're strangely silent when one points out that at least these 'radical'
professors don't run their own damn cable network or moonie newspaper.
Follow the money. Last time I checked, there wasn't a liberal version of
Scaife et al.
This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid of
a few English departments?
It's more than just a "few". But the real problem is society in general.
--
Kerry
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| User: "Jane Lumley" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
08 Jan 2004 06:50:28 AM |
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This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid of
a few English departments?
I'm baffled.
McCarthyism SHOULD be afraid of English departments.
Everyone knows how scary and subversive literature can be, of ANY
orthodoxy. That's why the Zdanovite regimes in Eastern Europe
persecuted poets like Mandelstam and Ahkmatova and Havel. That's why
the Nazis burned the novels of Mann and Hesse. That's why Milton was
ont eh government's blacklist at the Restoration. That is in fact why
the Athenians poisoned Socrates.
All orthodoxies hate eloquence and beauty because they can't control or
manage or suppress them.
Mind you, McCarthy, were he alive today, might console himself with the
thought that not very many English undergraduates actually read much
literature as of now. But a few still do, and it's still explosive
stuff.
--
Jane Lumley
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| User: "H. Reader" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
08 Jan 2004 05:29:05 PM |
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"Jane Lumley" <lumley@purkiss.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9CWUYgDUIV$$EwrX@purkiss.demon.co.uk...
This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid
of
a few English departments?
I'm baffled.
McCarthyism SHOULD be afraid of English departments.
Everyone knows how scary and subversive literature can be, of ANY
orthodoxy. That's why the Zdanovite regimes in Eastern Europe
persecuted poets like Mandelstam and Ahkmatova and Havel. That's why
the Nazis burned the novels of Mann and Hesse. That's why Milton was
ont eh government's blacklist at the Restoration. That is in fact why
the Athenians poisoned Socrates.
All orthodoxies hate eloquence and beauty because they can't control or
manage or suppress them.
Which pretty much explains the mentality behind the totalitarianism
of Political Correctness. And is anyone less eloquent and beautiful
than English-department rhetoricians and theorists of victimology?
Too many English departments have become ridiculous
in their dogmas, much as McCarthy did.
Mind you, McCarthy, were he alive today, might console himself with the
thought that not very many English undergraduates actually read much
literature as of now. But a few still do, and it's still explosive
stuff.
The McCarthys now occupy the English departments.
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| User: "Jane Lumley" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
09 Jan 2004 03:49:34 AM |
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This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid
of
a few English departments?
I'm baffled.
McCarthyism SHOULD be afraid of English departments.
Everyone knows how scary and subversive literature can be, of ANY
orthodoxy. That's why the Zdanovite regimes in Eastern Europe
persecuted poets like Mandelstam and Ahkmatova and Havel. That's why
the Nazis burned the novels of Mann and Hesse. That's why Milton was
ont eh government's blacklist at the Restoration. That is in fact why
the Athenians poisoned Socrates.
All orthodoxies hate eloquence and beauty because they can't control or
manage or suppress them.
Which pretty much explains the mentality behind the totalitarianism
of Political Correctness. And is anyone less eloquent and beautiful
than English-department rhetoricians and theorists of victimology?
Some of the people to whom you probably refer write well - Anne Carson,
for example. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with what she says, but
she says it elegantly, and she's a very fine poet; we might say the same
for Ruth Padel. Many of those not deemed correct write abysmally (I
made the mistake of reading Who Killed Homer?, and the Bloom piece on
the literary canon). It's sad but true that contact with great writing
doesn't make you a great writer. This is true across the spectrum.
it's true, though, that most (not all) of the theory-influenced have
trouble with subordinate clauses and also with neologisms, while their
foes tend to gracelessness.
Too many English departments have become ridiculous
in their dogmas, much as McCarthy did.
Possibly, but as a humble European, I'm keen to know exactly what you
mean. I assume you don't mean dogmas about English versification, but
thematic issues like questions of gender - an earlier poster had felt
unable to question feminist 'orthodoxies' - not sure what these are, by
the way. Lifestyle toleration is the only one that attracts all-party
assent here.
At my own university other feminist issues have never really become
established as anything other than marginal. For instance, most of us
would feel uneasy revising curricula on grounds that exclude questions
of literary merit.
And I thought the whole point of McCarthy was less that he was in error
about the extent of Communism than that he over-interpreted relatively
harmless activities as 'communism' - 'premature anti-fascism', for
instance. How can an ENGLISH department do this? Do its members have
hidden political powers?
The only means I can think of are behaviour codes - harassment codes and
the like - some of which are indeed ludicrous, but so are any and all
such codes produced and implemented by bureaucrats.
--
Jane Lumley
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| User: "Dymax1a" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
08 Jan 2004 02:06:30 PM |
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In alt.feminism Jane Lumley <lumley@purkiss.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>> This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid of
:>> a few English departments?
: I'm baffled.
: McCarthyism SHOULD be afraid of English departments.
I think you took my comments out of context.
You are in Europe, and the discussion was American in tenor.
The right-wing in America likes to claim that the 'left' (they
confuse establishment liberalism with leftism and Marxism)
controls the universities. If you look at the funding,
this just isn't so. So their position is illogical.
: Everyone knows how scary and subversive literature can be, of ANY
: orthodoxy. That's why the Zdanovite regimes in Eastern Europe
: persecuted poets like Mandelstam and Ahkmatova and Havel.
Yes, poetry is regarded very highly in Eastern Europe.
I can't imagine such a thing happening in the US.
: That's why
: the Nazis burned the novels of Mann and Hesse. That's why Milton was
: ont eh government's blacklist at the Restoration. That is in fact why
: the Athenians poisoned Socrates.
: All orthodoxies hate eloquence and beauty because they can't control or
: manage or suppress them.
I'm not convinced this is so. I believe that what authoritarians
really hate is when lots of people have access to eloquence and
beauty. Such things are fine for the elite, but the masses are
corrupted by such things. If you study the history of censorship,
these very arguments have been made in its defense.
In the 1980s and 1990s, more American children had access to
a university education than ever before. Hence the 'culture wars'.
We'll be hearing less about them now that fewer and fewer US citizens
can afford such an education.
: Mind you, McCarthy, were he alive today, might console himself with the
: thought that not very many English undergraduates actually read much
: literature as of now. But a few still do, and it's still explosive
: stuff.
I'm not disagreeing with your points at all. But in the US,
the right decries the lowering of 'standards' all the while
bashing liberal arts programs, especially English departments.
They need to get their scenario straight. Either they champion
literacy or they don't.
--
Kerry
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| User: "H. Reader" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
08 Jan 2004 05:38:14 PM |
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"Dymax1a" <dymax1a@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:btkd86$7n0$1@e250.ripco.com...
In alt.feminism Jane Lumley <lumley@purkiss.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:>> This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so
afraid of
:>> a few English departments?
: I'm baffled.
: McCarthyism SHOULD be afraid of English departments.
I think you took my comments out of context.
You are in Europe, and the discussion was American in tenor.
The right-wing in America likes to claim that the 'left' (they
confuse establishment liberalism with leftism and Marxism)
controls the universities. If you look at the funding,
this just isn't so. So their position is illogical.
: Everyone knows how scary and subversive literature can be, of ANY
: orthodoxy. That's why the Zdanovite regimes in Eastern Europe
: persecuted poets like Mandelstam and Ahkmatova and Havel.
Yes, poetry is regarded very highly in Eastern Europe.
I can't imagine such a thing happening in the US.
: That's why
: the Nazis burned the novels of Mann and Hesse. That's why Milton was
: ont eh government's blacklist at the Restoration. That is in fact why
: the Athenians poisoned Socrates.
: All orthodoxies hate eloquence and beauty because they can't control or
: manage or suppress them.
I'm not convinced this is so. I believe that what authoritarians
really hate is when lots of people have access to eloquence and
beauty. Such things are fine for the elite, but the masses are
corrupted by such things. If you study the history of censorship,
these very arguments have been made in its defense.
In the 1980s and 1990s, more American children had access to
a university education than ever before. Hence the 'culture wars'.
We'll be hearing less about them now that fewer and fewer US citizens
can afford such an education.
: Mind you, McCarthy, were he alive today, might console himself with the
: thought that not very many English undergraduates actually read much
: literature as of now. But a few still do, and it's still explosive
: stuff.
I'm not disagreeing with your points at all. But in the US,
the right decries the lowering of 'standards' all the while
bashing liberal arts programs, especially English departments.
You seem to believe that liberal arts programs are synonymous
with high standards. I've experienced and heard of way too much
indoctrination delivered in the name of education. English professors
tend to be the worst offenders. Best not, for example, question
the premises of a feminist theorist.
They need to get their scenario straight. Either they champion
literacy or they don't.
If only more English professors championed literacy and thought ...
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| User: "--=Cochise~||©||~Guardian=-- " |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
01 Jan 2004 03:43:38 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:32:32 GMT, "avenger" <stead@avengers.uk> wrote:
It's more than just a "few". But the real problem is society in general.
--
Care to explain?
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| User: "bonehead" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
03 Jan 2004 06:18:16 PM |
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Dymax1a wrote:
This is all such nonsense.
Colleges and universities are supposed to be tolerant of a wide range of
views.
It is true that they are *supposed* to be tolerant of a wide range of
views. Except that they manifestly aren't.
I recently completed a graduate business degree in Information Systems
at one of the largest state universities in the country (I finished with
highest honors, so I'm not exactly a slouch), and I'm currently employed
at that same university as a computer-techno-geek and lecturer. In 25
years of adult work experience I've never worked in any environment
where I felt more constrained to never say what I really think about
anything. It's a compromise I make willingly because I really like my
job, but it is nonetheless a compromise I must make if I wish to
continue having a career on campus.
It is true that there are many liberal and left-wing professors to be
found. There are also plenty of conservative and apolitical professors
on campus. It is blatant intellectual dishonesty to claim that
universities are all controlled by liberals.
"Controlled" is certainly too strong a word. It's even too much of a
generalization to say that entire universities are held under the sway
of leftists. Colleges of Business, Engineering and Sciences, in
particular, have thankfully managed to resist most attempts by leftists
to impose ideologies of political correctness on their academic work.
Although even in these areas, liberalism is making inroads. The amount
of time and energy devoted to parsing through and analyzing the racial
and gender composition of our faculty is extraordinary, to the point
where it is difficult to not wonder if there isn't something at least a
little bit racist and sexist about that itself.
The recently appointed Dean of our College of Business was the lead
scientist of a biotech firm that never turned a profit in its entire
15-year existence, and which just happened to go bankrupt right after
she was hired at our university. She argued, probably accurately, that
as the lead science executive she had nothing to do with the financial
management of the company. But she failed to explain how she was
qualified to be the Dean of a College of *Business*, other than the fact
that she was a prominent buisinesswoman who was very interested in
promoting more business opportunities for women, and that she regarded
this job as a stepping stone toward her ultimate goal of becoming a
university president, all of which resonated very deeply with the woman
provost of our university.
The Arts and Humanities in particular are areas that are clearly
dominated by leftists, even going so far as to establish entire
departments which are essentially social-political movements
masquerading as academic disciplines.
And it is certainly true that faculty in these areas seek, largely
through coercion, to impose their notions of "social justice" on the
entire university. They typically do so very loudly and persistently,
and are generally unable to engage in a genuine discussion with anyone
who does not agree with them. Their method of discourse typically
consists of long rambling monologues of the Fidel Castro style, rarely
if ever pausing to inhale. The closest they usually come to dialogue is
to ask a question and then immediately proceed to answer it themselves
as if they were the only person in the room.
University administrators tend to be much more conservative. Universities
also court the support of government and corporate entities that tend
toward conservatism - whether it's the DOD or some defense corporation.
Trustees are often wealthy Republicans.
Conservatives are just annoyed that they have to tolerate any liberalism
or leftism (much more often the FORMER than the latter) coming out of
college campuses, because they can't bear to hear any of it. They avoid
dialogue on campus, and instead go running to their Republican think tank
masters.
Actually at my university it's quite the opposite. Administrators and
faculty at my campus are sneeringly condescending of anyone who
expresses any point of view on the right, while being jealously
protective and defensive of anyone who expresses any point of view from
anywhere on the left, all the way over to and including Marxism...maybe
even especially Marxism.
They're strangely silent when one points out that at least these 'radical'
professors don't run their own damn cable network or moonie newspaper.
Follow the money. Last time I checked, there wasn't a liberal version of
Scaife et al.
This is just the same old McCarthyist *****. Why are they so afraid of
a few English departments?
Actually again this is exactly backwards. It is precisely the faculty of
English departments, and their colleagues in such areas as Women's
Studies, Film Studies, Economics, and History who are deeply afraid and
resentful of exactly the kind of outside scrutiny that has taken place
over the last ten years or so from authors such as Dinesh D'Souza and
websites such as NoIndoctrination.org.
That is why they have gone to such great lengths to rewrite "Academic
Freedom" policy guidelines in recent years. It is not a multiplicity of
points of view that they seek, nor the freedom to engage in intellectual
discourse from opposing points of view. It is the freedom to express any
leftist point of view they choose, and to grade their students based on
how fully the students agree with them, without anyone ever telling them
that their ideas are wrong.
Ultimately, I'm glad I've finished my degree and can just concentrate on
doing my job. If I didn't like my job so much I certainly would look
elsewhere.
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| User: "Mitchell Holman" |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 08:28:32 AM |
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"Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org> wrote in news:jeeIb.509$6B.391
@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
Have you run this notion past college professors
Robert Bork, Newt Gingrich, ***** Armey and Phil Gramm?
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| User: "--=Cochise~||©||~Guardian=-- " |
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| Title: Re: Shut down the colleges |
30 Dec 2003 07:08:10 AM |
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:31:11 GMT, "Godzilla Pimp" <god@heaven.org>
wrote:
It seems every form of idiocy prevalent in the Western World can be traced
to universities. It's time to shut them down. Permit only trade and
technical schools.
GP
Bellched out like a true retard who never finished grade school.
Jealous *****!
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