| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"The Fool" |
| Date: |
03 Jan 2006 09:04:19 PM |
| Object: |
Spying Crimes on America |
Bush is defending his 4th Amendment violations as being limited.
Limited? Nixon went down for wiretaping a few individuals, this is
hundreds (at least), with calling pattern observations of thousands.
Also, Bush is defending it by saying that he let others know he was
going to do it. So? In the courts, if you tell someone you are going
to do a crime and then do it, the punishment is worse. The same should
apply here. It wasn't an accident. He isn't sorry. And, he's already
said it will continue. It is the pride of this man, more than anything
else, that is driving myself, a life-long GOP activist and Bush
supporter, to say that it is time for Bush to go. We are setting
precedent with this man. Will the precedent be that no one is above
the law, or will it be that the law is whatever the President says it
is?
Ken Clifton
christianjedi.com
christiancelebrity.com
somebodysaveme.com
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Spying Crimes on America |
03 Jan 2006 09:17:26 PM |
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"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bush is defending his 4th Amendment violations as being limited.
Limited? Nixon went down for wiretaping a few individuals,
Actually, he "went down" for obstruction of justice, abuse of power,
and contempt of Congress, and his resignation took place after one of
the tapes was found explicitly supporting the obstruction of justice
charged.
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm
Wiretapping was incidental to one of the charges - the abuse of power
charge, but in particular it was wiretapping NOT justified by national
security or law enforcement.
<(2) He misused the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret
< Service, and other executive personnel, in violation or disregard of
< the constitutional rights of citizens, by directing or authorizing
< such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic
< surveillance or other investigations for purposes unrelated to
< national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful
< function of his office; he did direct, authorize, or permit the use
< of information obtained thereby for purposes unrelated to national
< security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of
< his office; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made
< by the Federal Bureau of Investigation of electronic surveillance.
It is not stated in the charges how many were wiretapped.
this is hundreds (at least), with calling pattern observations of thousands.
Actually, with Bush, I believe that we have no idea how many, because
the information is top secret. If you have a cite to the contrary,
I'd be interested.
lojbab
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Spying Crimes on America |
03 Jan 2006 09:29:01 PM |
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Back in the 40's Justice Jackson of the U.S. Supreme Court said the
"Constitution is Not a Suicide Pact". In times of war sometimes
freedoms might need to be curtailed to ensure the survival of the
nation. I'm not at all concerned about ensuring the rights of
terrorists. What Bush has done is small potatoes compared to what the
great liberal hero Roosevelt did. He imprisoned a whole race of people
for just being Japanese. At least Bush has some justification in
listening in to those that were listed in terrorist phone books and
computers.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Spying Crimes on America |
04 Jan 2006 11:06:12 AM |
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wrote:
Back in the 40's Justice Jackson of the U.S. Supreme Court said the
"Constitution is Not a Suicide Pact". In times of war sometimes
freedoms might need to be curtailed to ensure the survival of the
nation. I'm not at all concerned about ensuring the rights of
terrorists. What Bush has done is small potatoes compared to what the
great liberal hero Roosevelt did. He imprisoned a whole race of people
for just being Japanese.
And if you pay attention, he is condemned for it - by the liberals.
At least Bush has some justification in
listening in to those that were listed in terrorist phone books and
computers.
He has NO justification for doing so without consulting, even after
the fact as provided for in the law, with the secret court
specifically set up to review such situations and grant warrants as
can be in fact "justified".
lojbab
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| User: "The Fool" |
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| Title: Re: Spying Crimes on America |
04 Jan 2006 09:11:30 AM |
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wrote:
Back in the 40's Justice Jackson of the U.S. Supreme Court said the
"Constitution is Not a Suicide Pact". In times of war sometimes
freedoms might need to be curtailed to ensure the survival of the
nation. I'm not at all concerned about ensuring the rights of
terrorists. What Bush has done is small potatoes compared to what the
great liberal hero Roosevelt did. He imprisoned a whole race of people
for just being Japanese. At least Bush has some justification in
listening in to those that were listed in terrorist phone books and
computers.
If Bush knew they were terrorists, there'd be no need to listen in for
probable cause. His warrentless wiretaps are not spying on terrorists.
They are looking for terrorists. Likely, your calling patterns were
watched. Does that disturb you?
Ken Clifton
christianjedi.com
christiancelebrity.com
somebodysaveme.com
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: Spying Crimes on America |
09 Jan 2006 10:31:21 PM |
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On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:29:01 -0600, wrote:
Back in the 40's Justice Jackson of the U.S. Supreme Court said the
"Constitution is Not a Suicide Pact". In times of war
The United States hasn't been at war since 1945.
If the chickens & chickenhawks want to have wartime powers, let
them submit to the Congress a request for a Declaration of War.
As it is, our Coward-in-Chief is now responsible for the deaths of
2210 American military and an estimated number of Iraqi civilians
of from 28,000 to 32,000 with some estimates over three times that
many.
I'm open to a different persuasion when the present psychotics in
the White House and their bungling minion at the Pentagon have been
executed for treason for "outting" a CIA agent for political
reasons.
Gray Shockley
------------------------
You who build these altars now
to sacrifice these children,
you must not do it anymore.
A scheme is not a vision
and you never have been tempted
by a demon or a god.
- Leonard Cohen
sometimes
freedoms might need to be curtailed to ensure the survival of the
nation. I'm not at all concerned about ensuring the rights of
terrorists. What Bush has done is small potatoes compared to what the
great liberal hero Roosevelt did. He imprisoned a whole race of people
for just being Japanese. At least Bush has some justification in
listening in to those that were listed in terrorist phone books and
computers.
.
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