| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"The Fool" |
| Date: |
30 Sep 2005 02:58:28 PM |
| Object: |
The Generation of Divorce |
So says the fool...
Divorce has wrecked our world, and I don't just mean the number of
marriages that have faced divorce. I mean the spirit of divorce.
It used to be said that we live in a microwave generation, because we
want everything now and convenient. While that is true, it is letting
us off too easy. We don't just want things fast and easy. We imposed
deadline and ditch. No one wants to work through hard stuff, but we
all want to cowardly run away from anything difficult, whether that be
marriage or anything else. Some examples...
1. A Sinful Church - I have to concede with the devil on this one.
The devil has been charging for decades that there is as much
wickedness inside the church as outside. He should know, since he
helped put it there. As much as I wish it wasn't so, it is. Why?
Divorce. The Church is the bride of Christ, but this is a tempermental
bride willing to ditch the wedding unless she is pampered and bribed.
So, she runs off to whatever desire she has, thinking her groom will
not see.
2. Children - Generations ago, the orphanages were full from children
that the parents dropped off at the door. Now, the man (or woman) just
runs off and leaves the child with a single parent. The rest of this
point is connected to the next...
3. Marriage - In this generation of divorce, we hear stories every day
of people getting out of a marriage, because it wasn't fun any more.
Fun? Since when is a commitment supposed to be fun only...when did it
start being so selfish. Remember the vow...sickness or health...richer
or poorer. Now, that reads in health or riches only. If your spouse
isn't making you happy, what can you do to be happy WITH her.
The second part of marriage is children, as mentioned above. When a
man or woman runs out on a marriage, there are children impacted.
There is a million stories of children impacted by divorce. I am one
of them, my father having run off. In all of those stories, you never
hear the kid saying, "Life was peachy after he (or she) left." On the
other hand, you do hear many stories of parents that stay where they
weren't the best, but "at least they were there for me."
4. Jobs - Taking a job is an agreement to...well...work. However, you
don't see that reflected in the workplace today. Instead, you find a
multitude trying to get a paycheck off of the least amount of effort
possible. It's a common reaction in socialist countries, and it is
popping up increasingly in capitalism today. At least in capitalism,
their laziness means they won't get promoted as fast or make as much as
someone who does work hard.
5. Education - Yes, I said education. This is a huge point that is
completely ignored by most of the nation. God didn't give the task of
educating your child to a nation or a school. He gave it to PARENTS.
For thousands of years, parents understood that. The earliest years of
the school system, parents saw the school system as a HELP for them in
the teaching of their child. Now, most parents ship their kids off to
the school and take NO PART in their education. They have divorced
themselves from yet another problem, making sure their kids are well
taught. If a student doesn't learn or makes bad choices at school, the
parents blame themselves, not the school, for the failure, when they
should have been involved from the start.
6. Debt - There is a common pattern that many young couples follow
today. They charge up a lot of bills and declare bankruptcy when it
comes due. This has caused many companies today to plan on a
percentage of debts being uncollectable. It hurts the company. Guess
what? It's your debt. Even if you get the courts to protect you from
paying it, it's still your unpaid debt. It wasn't paid, only ignored.
I think this point has a lot to do with the reason many don't
understand their need for Christ. You tell them that God is just and
must defend those that you sin against, and they tell you that God
should just wave His hand and void the debt...sorta like a Bankruptcy
judge. However, if He did so, you'd still owe the debt...it was never
paid. That is why you need Christ, to pay off the debt in full by His
blood.
7. Abortion - This is the cruelest example of the spirit of Divorce
out there. A woman (or often a man) decides they don't want to raise a
baby, or they think it would be HARD to do so. So, they pay to make it
go away. Just as with every other example of the spirit of divorce, it
doesn't make it go away. It simply delays the consequences. Either
you will deal with the baby now, or you will deal with it when you see
it face to face before the God that made it, and you have to answer why
you never let it be born.
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Why are we being so weak that we cannot endure a little suffering for
others? Further, why should we expect anyone else to sacrifice effort
for us, when we will not do it ourselves?
If this civilation has any hope of surviving, we must divorce divorce
and recommit to commitment.
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio
http://www.geocities.com/writingken/
.
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
01 Oct 2005 09:09:28 PM |
|
|
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128110308.749455.152150@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
If this civilation has any hope of surviving, we must divorce divorce
and recommit to commitment.
Your first commitment is to God, otherwise this civilization has no hope of
survival. Anything else, the end would remain the same.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128110308.749455.152150@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So says the fool...
Divorce has wrecked our world, and I don't just mean the number of
marriages that have faced divorce. I mean the spirit of divorce.
It used to be said that we live in a microwave generation, because we
want everything now and convenient. While that is true, it is letting
us off too easy. We don't just want things fast and easy. We imposed
deadline and ditch. No one wants to work through hard stuff, but we
all want to cowardly run away from anything difficult, whether that be
marriage or anything else. Some examples...
1. A Sinful Church - I have to concede with the devil on this one.
The devil has been charging for decades that there is as much
wickedness inside the church as outside. He should know, since he
helped put it there. As much as I wish it wasn't so, it is. Why?
Divorce. The Church is the bride of Christ, but this is a tempermental
bride willing to ditch the wedding unless she is pampered and bribed.
So, she runs off to whatever desire she has, thinking her groom will
not see.
2. Children - Generations ago, the orphanages were full from children
that the parents dropped off at the door. Now, the man (or woman) just
runs off and leaves the child with a single parent. The rest of this
point is connected to the next...
3. Marriage - In this generation of divorce, we hear stories every day
of people getting out of a marriage, because it wasn't fun any more.
Fun? Since when is a commitment supposed to be fun only...when did it
start being so selfish. Remember the vow...sickness or health...richer
or poorer. Now, that reads in health or riches only. If your spouse
isn't making you happy, what can you do to be happy WITH her.
The second part of marriage is children, as mentioned above. When a
man or woman runs out on a marriage, there are children impacted.
There is a million stories of children impacted by divorce. I am one
of them, my father having run off. In all of those stories, you never
hear the kid saying, "Life was peachy after he (or she) left." On the
other hand, you do hear many stories of parents that stay where they
weren't the best, but "at least they were there for me."
4. Jobs - Taking a job is an agreement to...well...work. However, you
don't see that reflected in the workplace today. Instead, you find a
multitude trying to get a paycheck off of the least amount of effort
possible. It's a common reaction in socialist countries, and it is
popping up increasingly in capitalism today. At least in capitalism,
their laziness means they won't get promoted as fast or make as much as
someone who does work hard.
5. Education - Yes, I said education. This is a huge point that is
completely ignored by most of the nation. God didn't give the task of
educating your child to a nation or a school. He gave it to PARENTS.
For thousands of years, parents understood that. The earliest years of
the school system, parents saw the school system as a HELP for them in
the teaching of their child. Now, most parents ship their kids off to
the school and take NO PART in their education. They have divorced
themselves from yet another problem, making sure their kids are well
taught. If a student doesn't learn or makes bad choices at school, the
parents blame themselves, not the school, for the failure, when they
should have been involved from the start.
6. Debt - There is a common pattern that many young couples follow
today. They charge up a lot of bills and declare bankruptcy when it
comes due. This has caused many companies today to plan on a
percentage of debts being uncollectable. It hurts the company. Guess
what? It's your debt. Even if you get the courts to protect you from
paying it, it's still your unpaid debt. It wasn't paid, only ignored.
I think this point has a lot to do with the reason many don't
understand their need for Christ. You tell them that God is just and
must defend those that you sin against, and they tell you that God
should just wave His hand and void the debt...sorta like a Bankruptcy
judge. However, if He did so, you'd still owe the debt...it was never
paid. That is why you need Christ, to pay off the debt in full by His
blood.
7. Abortion - This is the cruelest example of the spirit of Divorce
out there. A woman (or often a man) decides they don't want to raise a
baby, or they think it would be HARD to do so. So, they pay to make it
go away. Just as with every other example of the spirit of divorce, it
doesn't make it go away. It simply delays the consequences. Either
you will deal with the baby now, or you will deal with it when you see
it face to face before the God that made it, and you have to answer why
you never let it be born.
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Why are we being so weak that we cannot endure a little suffering for
others? Further, why should we expect anyone else to sacrifice effort
for us, when we will not do it ourselves?
If this civilation has any hope of surviving, we must divorce divorce
and recommit to commitment.
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio
http://www.geocities.com/writingken/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Nog" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
01 Oct 2005 10:26:34 PM |
|
|
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128110308.749455.152150@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
So says the fool...
Divorce has wrecked our world, and I don't just mean the number of
marriages that have faced divorce. I mean the spirit of divorce.
It used to be said that we live in a microwave generation, because we
want everything now and convenient. While that is true, it is letting
us off too easy. We don't just want things fast and easy. We imposed
deadline and ditch. No one wants to work through hard stuff, but we
all want to cowardly run away from anything difficult, whether that be
marriage or anything else. Some examples...
1. A Sinful Church - I have to concede with the devil on this one.
The devil has been charging for decades that there is as much
wickedness inside the church as outside. He should know, since he
helped put it there. As much as I wish it wasn't so, it is. Why?
Divorce. The Church is the bride of Christ, but this is a tempermental
bride willing to ditch the wedding unless she is pampered and bribed.
So, she runs off to whatever desire she has, thinking her groom will
not see.
2. Children - Generations ago, the orphanages were full from children
that the parents dropped off at the door. Now, the man (or woman) just
runs off and leaves the child with a single parent. The rest of this
point is connected to the next...
3. Marriage - In this generation of divorce, we hear stories every day
of people getting out of a marriage, because it wasn't fun any more.
Fun? Since when is a commitment supposed to be fun only...when did it
start being so selfish. Remember the vow...sickness or health...richer
or poorer. Now, that reads in health or riches only. If your spouse
isn't making you happy, what can you do to be happy WITH her.
The second part of marriage is children, as mentioned above. When a
man or woman runs out on a marriage, there are children impacted.
There is a million stories of children impacted by divorce. I am one
of them, my father having run off. In all of those stories, you never
hear the kid saying, "Life was peachy after he (or she) left." On the
other hand, you do hear many stories of parents that stay where they
weren't the best, but "at least they were there for me."
4. Jobs - Taking a job is an agreement to...well...work. However, you
don't see that reflected in the workplace today. Instead, you find a
multitude trying to get a paycheck off of the least amount of effort
possible. It's a common reaction in socialist countries, and it is
popping up increasingly in capitalism today. At least in capitalism,
their laziness means they won't get promoted as fast or make as much as
someone who does work hard.
5. Education - Yes, I said education. This is a huge point that is
completely ignored by most of the nation. God didn't give the task of
educating your child to a nation or a school. He gave it to PARENTS.
For thousands of years, parents understood that. The earliest years of
the school system, parents saw the school system as a HELP for them in
the teaching of their child. Now, most parents ship their kids off to
the school and take NO PART in their education. They have divorced
themselves from yet another problem, making sure their kids are well
taught. If a student doesn't learn or makes bad choices at school, the
parents blame themselves, not the school, for the failure, when they
should have been involved from the start.
6. Debt - There is a common pattern that many young couples follow
today. They charge up a lot of bills and declare bankruptcy when it
comes due. This has caused many companies today to plan on a
percentage of debts being uncollectable. It hurts the company. Guess
what? It's your debt. Even if you get the courts to protect you from
paying it, it's still your unpaid debt. It wasn't paid, only ignored.
I think this point has a lot to do with the reason many don't
understand their need for Christ. You tell them that God is just and
must defend those that you sin against, and they tell you that God
should just wave His hand and void the debt...sorta like a Bankruptcy
judge. However, if He did so, you'd still owe the debt...it was never
paid. That is why you need Christ, to pay off the debt in full by His
blood.
7. Abortion - This is the cruelest example of the spirit of Divorce
out there. A woman (or often a man) decides they don't want to raise a
baby, or they think it would be HARD to do so. So, they pay to make it
go away. Just as with every other example of the spirit of divorce, it
doesn't make it go away. It simply delays the consequences. Either
you will deal with the baby now, or you will deal with it when you see
it face to face before the God that made it, and you have to answer why
you never let it be born.
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Why are we being so weak that we cannot endure a little suffering for
others? Further, why should we expect anyone else to sacrifice effort
for us, when we will not do it ourselves?
If this civilation has any hope of surviving, we must divorce divorce
and recommit to commitment.
Several concubines could save a marriage. The bible allows them.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
30 Sep 2005 04:00:20 PM |
|
|
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
God didn't give the task of
educating your child to a nation or a school.
He didn't give the task to anyone.
He gave it to PARENTS. For thousands of years, parents understood that.
Nonsense. In pre-Reformation times, the *only* form of education was
a church education, and it was the priests, not the parents, who were
responsible for teaching both religion and (for those deemed worthy -
i.e. given over to the priesthood) the 3Rs.
An exception was the nobility. They gave over their children to other
parents, often their suzerain, who would educate them and also
sometimes provide a daughter's hand at the end of that education.
6. Debt - There is a common pattern that many young couples follow
today. They charge up a lot of bills and declare bankruptcy when it
comes due. This has caused many companies today to plan on a
percentage of debts being uncollectable. It hurts the company. Guess
what? It's your debt. Even if you get the courts to protect you from
paying it, it's still your unpaid debt. It wasn't paid, only ignored.
I think this point has a lot to do with the reason many don't
understand their need for Christ. You tell them that God is just and
must defend those that you sin against, and they tell you that God
should just wave His hand and void the debt...sorta like a Bankruptcy
judge. However, if He did so, you'd still owe the debt...it was never
paid. That is why you need Christ, to pay off the debt in full by His
blood.
Asking Christ to pay your debt with His blood is EXACTLY the same
thing as asking God to wave His hand and void the debt. Since Christ
is considered God, it is still God's decision and God's action that
voids the debt. It is only God that has made any sacrifice in the
transaction, not the debtor.
7. Abortion - This is the cruelest example of the spirit of Divorce
out there. A woman (or often a man) decides they don't want to raise a
baby, or they think it would be HARD to do so. So, they pay to make it
go away.
A gross oversimplification of a decision that is often quite HARD for
a pregnant woman to make.
Just as with every other example of the spirit of divorce, it
doesn't make it go away. It simply delays the consequences. Either
you will deal with the baby now, or you will deal with it when you see
it face to face before the God that made it, and you have to answer why
you never let it be born.
Will God answer to *us* for all the children that He took away in
pregnancy and infancy?
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Actually, putting it in the "cold" that you are putting it, people ARE
"having the balls" to stand up to what would be a truly petty God if
He were as vindicative as you describe Him.
Of course, standing up to God isn't called "courage" by the religious;
it is called "blasphemy"
Why are we being so weak that we cannot endure a little suffering for
others? Further, why should we expect anyone else to sacrifice effort
for us, when we will not do it ourselves?
I dunno, but you expect it of Jesus.
If this civilation has any hope of surviving, we must divorce divorce
and recommit to commitment.
The civilization is surviving quite well, but we aren't the
civilization your wishful thinking has in mind. And we never were.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Fool" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
30 Sep 2005 04:43:11 PM |
|
|
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Actually, putting it in the "cold" that you are putting it, people ARE
"having the balls" to stand up to what would be a truly petty God if
He were as vindicative as you describe Him.
Of course, standing up to God isn't called "courage" by the religious;
it is called "blasphemy"
So, being irresponsible equals being courageous? Are you going to tell
all the wives of deadbeat dads, that the father is courageous? Are you
going to tell the companies that have non-paying customers that they
are just being courageous? Are you saying that parents are courageous
to ignore their kids education? Are you going to tell kids of divorced
parents that their parents are just being courageous. Finally, are you
going to tell the victims of priest abuse that the minister was just
being courageous?
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio
http://www.geocities.com/writingken/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
30 Sep 2005 10:51:57 PM |
|
|
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Actually, putting it in the "cold" that you are putting it, people ARE
"having the balls" to stand up to what would be a truly petty God if
He were as vindicative as you describe Him.
Of course, standing up to God isn't called "courage" by the religious;
it is called "blasphemy"
So, being irresponsible equals being courageous?
Where did I say that?
If one does not accept the responsibility to obey God, then standing
up to God might be courageous. It might also be foolish, if Almighty
God decides to inflict punishment, but courageous behavior is indeed
sometimes unwise.
Are you going to tell
all the wives of deadbeat dads, that the father is courageous?
In our society, a father, by the procreative act, accepts shared
responsibility for the results of that act. (In other societies, this
is not necessarily the case, and such behavior is neither courageous
nor responsible).
Are you
going to tell the companies that have non-paying customers that they
are just being courageous?
They might be. If they are choosing to accept the punishment for
being a debtor in return for keeping their family from starving, it
could be interpreted as "courageous".
But no, that is not what I said.
Are you saying that parents are courageous to ignore their kids education?
No. Nor are they being cowardly. The question seem orthogonal to
courage.
Are you going to tell kids of divorced
parents that their parents are just being courageous. Finally, are you
going to tell the victims of priest abuse that the minister was just
being courageous?
I have no idea how you get such nonsense from what I said.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Fool" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
02 Oct 2005 09:42:17 AM |
|
|
See Below, Bob. I wrote about the need for courage of responsibility,
and your response was that it was courageous to stand up to God. Do
the math.
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Actually, putting it in the "cold" that you are putting it, people ARE
"having the balls" to stand up to what would be a truly petty God if
He were as vindicative as you describe Him.
Of course, standing up to God isn't called "courage" by the religious;
it is called "blasphemy"
So, being irresponsible equals being courageous?
Where did I say that?
If one does not accept the responsibility to obey God, then standing
up to God might be courageous. It might also be foolish, if Almighty
God decides to inflict punishment, but courageous behavior is indeed
sometimes unwise.
Are you going to tell
all the wives of deadbeat dads, that the father is courageous?
In our society, a father, by the procreative act, accepts shared
responsibility for the results of that act. (In other societies, this
is not necessarily the case, and such behavior is neither courageous
nor responsible).
Are you
going to tell the companies that have non-paying customers that they
are just being courageous?
They might be. If they are choosing to accept the punishment for
being a debtor in return for keeping their family from starving, it
could be interpreted as "courageous".
But no, that is not what I said.
Are you saying that parents are courageous to ignore their kids education?
No. Nor are they being cowardly. The question seem orthogonal to
courage.
Are you going to tell kids of divorced
parents that their parents are just being courageous. Finally, are you
going to tell the victims of priest abuse that the minister was just
being courageous?
I have no idea how you get such nonsense from what I said.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio
http://www.geocities.com/writingken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
03 Oct 2005 10:51:24 AM |
|
|
In article <1128264137.718384.55180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> writes:
See Below, Bob. I wrote about the need for courage of responsibility,
and your response was that it was courageous to stand up to God. Do
the math.
Well, I've always admired Prometheus. Job too, for that matter.
-- cary
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Actually, putting it in the "cold" that you are putting it, people ARE
"having the balls" to stand up to what would be a truly petty God if
He were as vindicative as you describe Him.
Of course, standing up to God isn't called "courage" by the religious;
it is called "blasphemy"
So, being irresponsible equals being courageous?
Where did I say that?
If one does not accept the responsibility to obey God, then standing
up to God might be courageous. It might also be foolish, if Almighty
God decides to inflict punishment, but courageous behavior is indeed
sometimes unwise.
Are you going to tell
all the wives of deadbeat dads, that the father is courageous?
In our society, a father, by the procreative act, accepts shared
responsibility for the results of that act. (In other societies, this
is not necessarily the case, and such behavior is neither courageous
nor responsible).
Are you
going to tell the companies that have non-paying customers that they
are just being courageous?
They might be. If they are choosing to accept the punishment for
being a debtor in return for keeping their family from starving, it
could be interpreted as "courageous".
But no, that is not what I said.
Are you saying that parents are courageous to ignore their kids education?
No. Nor are they being cowardly. The question seem orthogonal to
courage.
Are you going to tell kids of divorced
parents that their parents are just being courageous. Finally, are you
going to tell the victims of priest abuse that the minister was just
being courageous?
I have no idea how you get such nonsense from what I said.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio
http://www.geocities.com/writingken
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
07 Oct 2005 07:35:38 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:51:24 -0500, Cary Kittrell wrote
(in article <dhrk1s$s2f$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>):
In article <1128264137.718384.55180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> "The Fool"
<kands00@hotmail.com> writes:
See Below, Bob. I wrote about the need for courage of responsibility,
and your response was that it was courageous to stand up to God. Do
the math.
Well, I've always admired Prometheus. Job too, for that matter.
-- cary
Well, certainly, but Wozniak was, at least, of equal importance.
++ gray
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"The Fool" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I hate to sound so cold about it, but where is the courage today? Why
doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up to their responsibilities?
Actually, putting it in the "cold" that you are putting it, people ARE
"having the balls" to stand up to what would be a truly petty God if
He were as vindicative as you describe Him.
Of course, standing up to God isn't called "courage" by the religious;
it is called "blasphemy"
So, being irresponsible equals being courageous?
Where did I say that?
If one does not accept the responsibility to obey God, then standing
up to God might be courageous. It might also be foolish, if Almighty
God decides to inflict punishment, but courageous behavior is indeed
sometimes unwise.
Are you going to tell
all the wives of deadbeat dads, that the father is courageous?
In our society, a father, by the procreative act, accepts shared
responsibility for the results of that act. (In other societies, this
is not necessarily the case, and such behavior is neither courageous
nor responsible).
Are you
going to tell the companies that have non-paying customers that they
are just being courageous?
They might be. If they are choosing to accept the punishment for
being a debtor in return for keeping their family from starving, it
could be interpreted as "courageous".
But no, that is not what I said.
Are you saying that parents are courageous to ignore their kids education?
No. Nor are they being cowardly. The question seem orthogonal to
courage.
Are you going to tell kids of divorced
parents that their parents are just being courageous. Finally, are you
going to tell the victims of priest abuse that the minister was just
being courageous?
I have no idea how you get such nonsense from what I said.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
Ken Clifton
Everfresh Radio
http://www.geocities.com/writingken
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
01 Oct 2005 05:00:35 PM |
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The Fool wrote:
1. A Sinful Church - I have to concede with the devil on this one.
The devil has been charging for decades that there is as much
wickedness inside the church as outside. He should know, since he
helped put it there. As much as I wish it wasn't so, it is. Why?
Divorce. The Church is the bride of Christ, but this is a tempermental
bride willing to ditch the wedding unless she is pampered and bribed.
So, she runs off to whatever desire she has, thinking her groom will
not see.
Stupid mixed metaphors.
2. Children - Generations ago, the orphanages were full from children
that the parents dropped off at the door. Now, the man (or woman) just
runs off and leaves the child with a single parent. The rest of this
point is connected to the next...
Yes, full orphanages are a good thing, aren't they?
3. Marriage - In this generation of divorce, we hear stories every day
of people getting out of a marriage, because it wasn't fun any more.
Fun? Since when is a commitment supposed to be fun only...when did it
start being so selfish. Remember the vow...sickness or health...richer
or poorer. Now, that reads in health or riches only. If your spouse
isn't making you happy, what can you do to be happy WITH her.
And you would prefer people stay together even in
abusive relationships. I know your kind.
The second part of marriage is children, as mentioned above. When a
man or woman runs out on a marriage, there are children impacted.
There is a million stories of children impacted by divorce. I am one
of them, my father having run off. In all of those stories, you never
hear the kid saying, "Life was peachy after he (or she) left." On the
other hand, you do hear many stories of parents that stay where they
weren't the best, but "at least they were there for me."
Except that watching the parents fight has been
proven to be more psychologically damaging.
4. Jobs - Taking a job is an agreement to...well...work. However, you
don't see that reflected in the workplace today. Instead, you find a
multitude trying to get a paycheck off of the least amount of effort
possible. It's a common reaction in socialist countries, and it is
popping up increasingly in capitalism today. At least in capitalism,
their laziness means they won't get promoted as fast or make as much as
someone who does work hard.
Actually, it's the definition of capitalism.
5. Education - Yes, I said education. This is a huge point that is
completely ignored by most of the nation. God didn't give the task of
educating your child to a nation or a school. He gave it to PARENTS.
For thousands of years, parents understood that. The earliest years of
the school system, parents saw the school system as a HELP for them in
the teaching of their child. Now, most parents ship their kids off to
the school and take NO PART in their education. They have divorced
themselves from yet another problem, making sure their kids are well
taught. If a student doesn't learn or makes bad choices at school, the
parents blame themselves, not the school, for the failure, when they
should have been involved from the start.
Actually, schools would prefer if parents were
involved. But we can't have parents teaching
their kids that three plus blue equals chair.
6. Debt - There is a common pattern that many young couples follow
today. They charge up a lot of bills and declare bankruptcy when it
comes due. This has caused many companies today to plan on a
percentage of debts being uncollectable. It hurts the company. Guess
what? It's your debt. Even if you get the courts to protect you from
paying it, it's still your unpaid debt. It wasn't paid, only ignored.
And I suppose that maybe, just maybe, the
economic system might not be related to that?
We have an economic system which encourages
debt. Isn't that right, Reagan, Bush, and
Bush?
I think this point has a lot to do with the reason many don't
understand their need for Christ. You tell them that God is just and
must defend those that you sin against, and they tell you that God
should just wave His hand and void the debt...sorta like a Bankruptcy
judge. However, if He did so, you'd still owe the debt...it was never
paid. That is why you need Christ, to pay off the debt in full by His
blood.
I once rejected the blood of Jesus. No, Jesus
Sanchez. Fucker was type A and I'm O.
7. Abortion - This is the cruelest example of the spirit of Divorce
out there. A woman (or often a man) decides they don't want to raise a
baby, or they think it would be HARD to do so. So, they pay to make it
go away. Just as with every other example of the spirit of divorce, it
doesn't make it go away. It simply delays the consequences. Either
you will deal with the baby now, or you will deal with it when you see
it face to face before the God that made it, and you have to answer why
you never let it be born.
This is because Ken will only be able to father
children by raping a woman.
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| User: "Secret Squirrel" |
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| Title: Re: The Generation of Divorce |
03 Oct 2005 12:35:00 PM |
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
man_in_black529@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1128204034.995004.264360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Hey MIB, I know I really should email you, but I've been
really, really tied up of late. But this was a really
good reply; kudos to you on this.
The Fool wrote:
1. A Sinful Church - I have to concede with the devil on
this one. The devil has been charging for decades that
there is as much wickedness inside the church as outside.
He should know, since he helped put it there. As much as
I wish it wasn't so, it is. Why? Divorce. The Church is
the bride of Christ, but this is a tempermental bride
willing to ditch the wedding unless she is pampered and
bribed. So, she runs off to whatever desire she has,
thinking her groom will not see.
Stupid mixed metaphors.
2. Children - Generations ago, the orphanages were full
from children that the parents dropped off at the door.
Now, the man (or woman) just runs off and leaves the child
with a single parent. The rest of this point is connected
to the next...
Yes, full orphanages are a good thing, aren't they?
Not to mention that the death rate at those orphanages
was so high that you might as well have dropped the baby
off a bridge into the river.
Abortion is a horrendous crime, but allowing babies to
die of physical and emotional neglect is not?
3. Marriage - In this generation of divorce, we hear
stories every day of people getting out of a marriage,
because it wasn't fun any more. Fun? Since when is a
commitment supposed to be fun only...when did it start
being so selfish. Remember the vow...sickness or
health...richer or poorer. Now, that reads in health or
riches only. If your spouse isn't making you happy, what
can you do to be happy WITH her.
And you would prefer people stay together even in
abusive relationships. I know your kind.
Hey, a "let 'em beat each other, and the kids, to a pulp"
attitude?"
I know a woman who went through such relationships, and now
she's got a gem of a husband. And they're devout, fairly
orthodox, Christians to boot.
Now why would Ken have wanted her to have stayed with,
say, her husband the no-good drunk who beat the kids when
by shopping around, she got someone as good as she deserved?
And in a "godly" relationship, they're both churchgoers, to
boot.
The second part of marriage is children, as mentioned
above. When a man or woman runs out on a marriage, there
are children impacted. There is a million stories of
children impacted by divorce. I am one of them, my father
having run off. In all of those stories, you never hear
the kid saying, "Life was peachy after he (or she) left."
On the other hand, you do hear many stories of parents
that stay where they weren't the best, but "at least they
were there for me."
Except that watching the parents fight has been
proven to be more psychologically damaging.
- From my childhood, I can agree. Seeing the parental gods at
war with each other is frightening to a child. I remember.
(And my parents didn't really fight that much).
4. Jobs - Taking a job is an agreement to...well...work.
However, you don't see that reflected in the workplace
today. Instead, you find a multitude trying to get a
paycheck off of the least amount of effort possible. It's
a common reaction in socialist countries, and it is
popping up increasingly in capitalism today. At least in
capitalism, their laziness means they won't get promoted
as fast or make as much as someone who does work hard.
Actually, it's the definition of capitalism.
Absolutely!! Ayn Rand in an honest moment would have had
to agree...capitalism and egoism (me-first and me-only is
the highest good) reflects exactly what Ken is complaining
about.
5. Education - Yes, I said education. This is a huge
point that is completely ignored by most of the nation.
God didn't give the task of educating your child to a
nation or a school. He gave it to PARENTS. For thousands
of years, parents understood that. The earliest years of
the school system, parents saw the school system as a HELP
for them in the teaching of their child. Now, most
parents ship their kids off to the school and take NO PART
in their education. They have divorced themselves from
yet another problem, making sure their kids are well
taught. If a student doesn't learn or makes bad choices
at school, the parents blame themselves, not the school,
for the failure, when they should have been involved from
the start.
Actually, schools would prefer if parents were
involved. But we can't have parents teaching
their kids that three plus blue equals chair.
Although I guess I have to give Ken some credit here, I
find that the schools are increasingly exclusive to adults
in general. Used to be after I graduated, my old teachers
thought enough of me as a college student to *invite* me
to give talks to the kids; and I could walk into the high
schools and do that with no problem. I'm not sure that
could happen anymore.
6. Debt - There is a common pattern that many young
couples follow today. They charge up a lot of bills and
declare bankruptcy when it comes due. This has caused
many companies today to plan on a percentage of debts
being uncollectable. It hurts the company. Guess what?
It's your debt. Even if you get the courts to protect you
from paying it, it's still your unpaid debt. It wasn't
paid, only ignored.
And I suppose that maybe, just maybe, the
economic system might not be related to that?
We have an economic system which encourages
debt. Isn't that right, Reagan, Bush, and
Bush?
Both public and personal. How many credit card offers do you
get a month?
I think this point has a lot to do with the reason many
don't understand their need for Christ. You tell them
that God is just and must defend those that you sin
against, and they tell you that God should just wave His
hand and void the debt...sorta like a Bankruptcy judge.
However, if He did so, you'd still owe the debt...it was
never paid. That is why you need Christ, to pay off the
debt in full by His blood.
I once rejected the blood of Jesus. No, Jesus
Sanchez. Fucker was type A and I'm O.
LOL.
Anyway, my compliments on this reply.
Secret Squirrel
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