| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
| Date: |
05 May 2007 10:07:30 AM |
| Object: |
The Kingdom of God |
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson. Christians have
dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things), and they are
subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
We've heard it said every Christmas that Christ came to fulfill this
prophecy...
Isa 9:6-7
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there
shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to
order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform
this."
However, few hear the words "government" or "throne" or "kingdom,"
when they hear the verse. They just want to think of Jesus as a baby,
not a Lord to be subject to. However, what was Christ's message...
Mark 1:15
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel."
C.S. Lewis (the Narnia author) said that the coming of Jesus was equal
to an invasion. One Kingdom intruding into another. You can see that
in this verse, too...
Matthew 12:27-28
"27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children
cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast
out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto
you. "
and
Luke 16:16
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom
of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
When Jesus was questioned by Pilate about being a King, He said, "To
this end was I born." (John 18:37) We can see this even in the
announcement of His birth...
(The Prophecy)
Micah 5:2
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that
is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old,
from everlasting."
(The Fulfillment)
Matthew 2:1
"1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod
the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen
his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 3 When Herod the
king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with
him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of
the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is
written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall
come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
But..only Israel? No...
Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto
me in heaven and in earth."
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were
of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be
delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers, but it will not be
forced upon the world till the end. Does this mean the Kingdom of God
is powerless, today? ONLY for the unbeliever...
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you."
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Luke 10:17-20
"Lk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even
the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto
them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give
unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the
power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto
you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom. They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it. However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
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| User: "Lee me@localhost" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
05 May 2007 10:13:56 AM |
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"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178377650.589374.27760@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson.
Would that be Narnia that you are saying?
Lee
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| User: "Joe S." |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
05 May 2007 02:29:42 PM |
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"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178377650.589374.27760@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson. Christians have
dual citizenship in this world.
Nope, you got it wrong. It's not a "secret world," it's a fantasy world.
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 07:47:54 AM |
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Blow me.
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178377650.589374.27760@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson. Christians have
dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things), and they are
subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
We've heard it said every Christmas that Christ came to fulfill this
prophecy...
Isa 9:6-7
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there
shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to
order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform
this."
However, few hear the words "government" or "throne" or "kingdom,"
when they hear the verse. They just want to think of Jesus as a baby,
not a Lord to be subject to. However, what was Christ's message...
Mark 1:15
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel."
C.S. Lewis (the Narnia author) said that the coming of Jesus was equal
to an invasion. One Kingdom intruding into another. You can see that
in this verse, too...
Matthew 12:27-28
"27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children
cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast
out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto
you. "
and
Luke 16:16
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom
of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
When Jesus was questioned by Pilate about being a King, He said, "To
this end was I born." (John 18:37) We can see this even in the
announcement of His birth...
(The Prophecy)
Micah 5:2
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that
is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old,
from everlasting."
(The Fulfillment)
Matthew 2:1
"1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod
the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen
his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 3 When Herod the
king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with
him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of
the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is
written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall
come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
But..only Israel? No...
Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto
me in heaven and in earth."
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were
of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be
delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers, but it will not be
forced upon the world till the end. Does this mean the Kingdom of God
is powerless, today? ONLY for the unbeliever...
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you."
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Luke 10:17-20
"Lk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even
the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto
them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give
unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the
power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto
you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom. They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it. However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 09:37:21 PM |
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On May 5, 11:07 am, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson. Christians have
dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things), and they are
subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
We've heard it said every Christmas that Christ came to fulfill this
prophecy...
Isa 9:6-7
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there
shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to
order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform
this."
However, few hear the words "government" or "throne" or "kingdom,"
when they hear the verse. They just want to think of Jesus as a baby,
not a Lord to be subject to. However, what was Christ's message...
Mark 1:15
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel."
C.S. Lewis (the Narnia author) said that the coming of Jesus was equal
to an invasion. One Kingdom intruding into another. You can see that
in this verse, too...
Matthew 12:27-28
"27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children
cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast
out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto
you. "
and
Luke 16:16
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom
of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
When Jesus was questioned by Pilate about being a King, He said, "To
this end was I born." (John 18:37) We can see this even in the
announcement of His birth...
(The Prophecy)
Micah 5:2
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that
is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old,
from everlasting."
(The Fulfillment)
Matthew 2:1
"1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod
the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen
his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 3 When Herod the
king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with
him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of
the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is
written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall
come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
But..only Israel? No...
Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto
me in heaven and in earth."
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were
of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be
delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers, but it will not be
forced upon the world till the end. Does this mean the Kingdom of God
is powerless, today? ONLY for the unbeliever...
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you."
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Luke 10:17-20
"Lk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even
the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto
them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give
unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the
power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto
you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom. They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it. However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Why the ***** are you posting this ***** on a fucking political
newsgroup? Are you fucking demented or what? Do fucking believe anyone
here gives a fucking crap about this fucking worthless *****? Take your
fucking bible-belt ***** crap and get the ***** out of here!
Fucked a biblenut
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 09:17:07 PM |
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On May 5, 2007, No Guts, No Glory wrote:
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson. Christians have
dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things), and they are
subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
----------------------------
<http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2007/05/its-world-of-laughter-world-of-
tears.html>:
Let's see if we have this straight: Monica Goodling, the Godly miss
who is the pride of Messiah College and Regent University Law School,
and who invokes the 5th Amendment even when asked what kind of
dressing she wants on her salad, is being represented by John Dowd ,
of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld , whose legal secretary appears to
be up to her briefs in the DC madam case.
This is going to so much fun.
[Oh! "Interesting" pic. Republican recruiting campaign? A cheerleader
at Pat Robertson School of Pat Robertson"?]
Gray Shockley
----------------------------
All patients accepted for treatment at St. Jude are
treated without regard to the family's ability to pay.
http://www.stjude.org/aboutus
We've
Flea collar stopped working again, eh, boy?
Gray
heard it said every Christmas that Christ came to fulfill this
prophecy...
Isa 9:6-7
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The
Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there
shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to
order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform
this."
However, few hear the words "government" or "throne" or "kingdom,"
when they hear the verse. They just want to think of Jesus as a baby,
not a Lord to be subject to. However, what was Christ's message...
Mark 1:15
"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand:
repent ye, and believe the gospel."
C.S. Lewis (the Narnia author) said that the coming of Jesus was equal
to an invasion. One Kingdom intruding into another. You can see that
in this verse, too...
Matthew 12:27-28
"27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children
cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast
out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto
you. "
and
Luke 16:16
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom
of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
When Jesus was questioned by Pilate about being a King, He said, "To
this end was I born." (John 18:37) We can see this even in the
announcement of His birth...
(The Prophecy)
Micah 5:2
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the
thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that
is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old,
from everlasting."
(The Fulfillment)
Matthew 2:1
"1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod
the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2
Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen
his star in the east, and are come to worship him. 3 When Herod the
king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with
him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of
the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is
written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
art not the least among the princes of Judah: for out of thee shall
come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel."
But..only Israel? No...
Matthew 28:18
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto
me in heaven and in earth."
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were
of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be
delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers, but it will not be
forced upon the world till the end. Does this mean the Kingdom of God
is powerless, today? ONLY for the unbeliever...
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you."
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Luke 10:17-20
"Lk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even
the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto
them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give
unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the
power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto
you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom. They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it. However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
05 May 2007 10:39:20 AM |
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On May 5, 8:07 am, Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson. Christians have
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
I heard the anti-christ comes first and decieves the world into
believing he is the true
christ before the true christ returns
dual Kingdom. They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it. However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
.
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| User: "Timothy Sutter" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
05 May 2007 11:13:54 AM |
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wrote:
I heard the anti-christ comes first and decieves the world into
believing he is the true
christ before the true christ returns
this is a good place to mention that
it's 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 10:27:38 PM |
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On May 5, 2007, Timothy "Falwell" Sutter wrote:
balanco01@yahoo.com wrote:
I heard the anti-christ comes first and decieves the world into
believing he is the true
christ before the true christ returns
this is a good place to mention that
it's 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'
eider
eidetic
eigenstate
eight
Einstein
Eire
either
neither
ceiling
their
theism
deism
feign
feint
feisty
geisha
beige
being
heifer
height
heir
heist
keister
leisure
leitmotif
neighbor
neighs
peignoir
veil
vein
weigh
weird
being
foreign
seeing
their
deceive
hereinafter
dyeing
heiress
reign
counterfeit
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
05 May 2007 01:08:53 PM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson.
That's your first mistake, to quote Pat Robertson, as if he were an
authority on anything other than making money off of gullible True
Believers.
Christians have dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things)
They are still subject to the country they dwell in even then. Indeed
they are subject to the laws of the country they are present in,
whether they have citizenship or not.
If Christians choose to disobey the earthly authorities, they then get
to take the consequences.
and they are subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
You screwed up by admitting that only Christians are in this category.
After all, per your other preaching, everyone including the atheists
is "subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God". So per your other
preaching, Christians are no different than anyone else.
Of course the others don't care that they may be subject to someone
they don't believe exists.
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
If he has to come back to establish His kingdom, then at the present
time there is no kingdom.
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
Therefore, currently there is no kingdom of God on this world. So you
have disproven your premise based on your own Bible verses. Nice
going, sucker.
if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,
Further evidence that there was as yet no kingdom established. Even
His devoted followers did not fight for Him.
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
When eternity happens, then it happens. Why worry about it until
then?
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers,
No it isn't. It will not be available until Christ returns.
I'm not holding my breath.
but it will not be forced upon the world till the end.
It will not EXIST upon this world till the end. By which point you
and I will be long gone, and it won't much matter to us.
Does this mean the Kingdom of God is powerless, today?
It is nonexistent on earth today, except in your imagination.
ONLY for the unbeliever...
You seem to think that people, especially Americans, WANT someone in
power over them. This is a country that revolted against its king and
kicked its soldiers out. Unbelievers aren't going to care about an
invisible kingdom.
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you.
Bill Gates made tens of billions of dollars without having to be
religious.
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
Secular doctors do a helluva lot better than faith healers at this.
Nonbelievers will continue to go to them. So will intelligent
Christians.
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
Nonbelievers won't give a damn until that day comes.
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Nonbelievers don't believe in the devil.
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom.
Saying it don't make it so.
They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it.
Since you have yet to demonstrate any sign of these rights and
privileges, the nonbeliever is free to tell you that you are full of
*****. (So are believers like me, of course).
However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Alas, they don't seem to be suffering. And in this country, they are
subject to no kings.
lojbab
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
05 May 2007 06:25:06 PM |
|
|
On May 5, 1:08 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson.
That's your first mistake, to quote Pat Robertson, as if he were an
authority on anything other than making money off of gullible True
Believers.
Christians have dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things)
They are still subject to the country they dwell in even then. Indeed
they are subject to the laws of the country they are present in,
whether they have citizenship or not.
If Christians choose to disobey the earthly authorities, they then get
to take the consequences.
and they are subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
You screwed up by admitting that only Christians are in this category.
After all, per your other preaching, everyone including the atheists
is "subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God". So per your other
preaching, Christians are no different than anyone else.
Of course the others don't care that they may be subject to someone
they don't believe exists.
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
If he has to come back to establish His kingdom, then at the present
time there is no kingdom.
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
Therefore, currently there is no kingdom of God on this world. So you
have disproven your premise based on your own Bible verses. Nice
going, sucker.
if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,
Further evidence that there was as yet no kingdom established. Even
His devoted followers did not fight for Him.
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
When eternity happens, then it happens. Why worry about it until
then?
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers,
No it isn't. It will not be available until Christ returns.
I'm not holding my breath.
but it will not be forced upon the world till the end.
It will not EXIST upon this world till the end. By which point you
and I will be long gone, and it won't much matter to us.
Does this mean the Kingdom of God is powerless, today?
It is nonexistent on earth today, except in your imagination.
ONLY for the unbeliever...
You seem to think that people, especially Americans, WANT someone in
power over them. This is a country that revolted against its king and
kicked its soldiers out. Unbelievers aren't going to care about an
invisible kingdom.
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you.
Bill Gates made tens of billions of dollars without having to be
religious.
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
Secular doctors do a helluva lot better than faith healers at this.
Nonbelievers will continue to go to them. So will intelligent
Christians.
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
Nonbelievers won't give a damn until that day comes.
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Nonbelievers don't believe in the devil.
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom.
Saying it don't make it so.
They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it.
Since you have yet to demonstrate any sign of these rights and
privileges, the nonbeliever is free to tell you that you are full of
*****. (So are believers like me, of course).
However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Alas, they don't seem to be suffering. And in this country, they are
subject to no kings.
lojbab
You don't think non-christians are suffering? I guess the effects of
drug abuse and destroyed lives (from the devil's influence) are
blessings to you. I see that you think bankruptcy from gambling, AIDS
from premarital sex, and deaths from drunk driving are some kind of
joy for those going through them.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Roger" |
|
| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 07:48:49 AM |
|
|
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178407506.638546.106810@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 5, 1:08 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
We live in a "Secret Kingdom" to quote Pat Robertson.
That's your first mistake, to quote Pat Robertson, as if he were an
authority on anything other than making money off of gullible True
Believers.
Christians have dual citizenship in this world. They are subject to the
country they
dwell in (unless it requires them to do sinful things)
They are still subject to the country they dwell in even then. Indeed
they are subject to the laws of the country they are present in,
whether they have citizenship or not.
If Christians choose to disobey the earthly authorities, they then get
to take the consequences.
and they are subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God.
You screwed up by admitting that only Christians are in this category.
After all, per your other preaching, everyone including the atheists
is "subject to the Eternal Kingdom of God". So per your other
preaching, Christians are no different than anyone else.
Of course the others don't care that they may be subject to someone
they don't believe exists.
Does that mean that God is currently directing the nations of the
world? No. After receiving authority and Kingdom, Christ went back
to Heaven...to return to establish the Kingdom in the final days...
If he has to come back to establish His kingdom, then at the present
time there is no kingdom.
(Currently)
John 18:36
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:
Therefore, currently there is no kingdom of God on this world. So you
have disproven your premise based on your own Bible verses. Nice
going, sucker.
if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,
Further evidence that there was as yet no kingdom established. Even
His devoted followers did not fight for Him.
(Future)
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven,
saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our
Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
When eternity happens, then it happens. Why worry about it until
then?
So, God's Kingdom is available, now, to believers,
No it isn't. It will not be available until Christ returns.
I'm not holding my breath.
but it will not be forced upon the world till the end.
It will not EXIST upon this world till the end. By which point you
and I will be long gone, and it won't much matter to us.
Does this mean the Kingdom of God is powerless, today?
It is nonexistent on earth today, except in your imagination.
ONLY for the unbeliever...
You seem to think that people, especially Americans, WANT someone in
power over them. This is a country that revolted against its king and
kicked its soldiers out. Unbelievers aren't going to care about an
invisible kingdom.
(The Power to Bless)
Matthew 6:33
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all
these things shall be added unto you.
Bill Gates made tens of billions of dollars without having to be
religious.
(The Power to Heal)
Luke 10:9
"9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom
of God is come nigh unto you."
Secular doctors do a helluva lot better than faith healers at this.
Nonbelievers will continue to go to them. So will intelligent
Christians.
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
Nonbelievers won't give a damn until that day comes.
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Nonbelievers don't believe in the devil.
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom.
Saying it don't make it so.
They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it.
Since you have yet to demonstrate any sign of these rights and
privileges, the nonbeliever is free to tell you that you are full of
*****. (So are believers like me, of course).
However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Alas, they don't seem to be suffering. And in this country, they are
subject to no kings.
lojbab
You don't think non-christians are suffering? I guess the effects of
drug abuse and destroyed lives (from the devil's influence) are
blessings to you. I see that you think bankruptcy from gambling, AIDS
from premarital sex, and deaths from drunk driving are some kind of
joy for those going through them.
Most drug users and drug dealers are believers.
Most AIDS sufferers are believers. As are drunk drivers.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 05:46:20 AM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
Nonbelievers won't give a damn until that day comes.
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Nonbelievers don't believe in the devil.
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom.
Saying it don't make it so.
They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it.
Since you have yet to demonstrate any sign of these rights and
privileges, the nonbeliever is free to tell you that you are full of
*****. (So are believers like me, of course).
However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Alas, they don't seem to be suffering. And in this country, they are
subject to no kings.
You don't think non-christians are suffering?
"Suffering" is a mental state. Since they don't think that they are
"suffering", I rather doubt that they are.
I guess the effects of drug abuse
Nothing to do with being Christian or not. There are plenty of
perfectly good Christians who have abused drugs, with alcohol and
nicotine and caffeine being among the most notorious drugs that get
abused in this country. The former has destroyed far more Christian
families than there have ever been abusers of those drugs which our
government chooses to call "illegal".
and destroyed lives
Plenty of Christians who have suffered that
(from the devil's influence)
The non believer doesn't believe that any problems that he has are due
to "the devil's influence". Far better to accept responsibility for
one's own mistakes, or to blame the mistakes of other human beings,
than to blame some ultra-powerful imaginary evil spirit.
are blessings to you.
They are neither "sufferings" nor "blessings". ***** happens. That is
life. Most of us would be bored if nothing happened. Some of us,
notably the young, tend to push the edge of what they will try UNTIL
bad things start to happen, and then they try to ride the thrilling
roller coaster ride along the line between adventure and failure.
I see that you think bankruptcy from gambling, AIDS
from premarital sex, and deaths from drunk driving
None of which have anything to do with being Christian or
non-Christian, since Christians partake of all of those things pretty
much to the same extent that non-Christians do.
You seem to think that being "Christian" has something to do with
being virtuous. May I remind you of Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy
Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and uncounted others
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_televangelist_scandals
Or maybe:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0978/is_n4_v15/ai_8283767
<Data from a questionnaire sent to 704 male university students and
< nonacademic staff were reanalyzed to compare self-reports of drug and
< alcohol intake patterns and problems as well as family histories of
< psychiatric disorders for Jewish (N = 110, Group 1) and Christian men
< (N = 594, Group 2). Although the two groups did not differ
< significantly on the quantity and frequency of alcohol intake, men in
< Group 2 were more likely to report at least one episode of heavy
< drinking and alcohol-related problems, and their responses indicated
< a higher rate of a family history of alcoholism. There were no
< differences across the groups on the proportion of lifetime drug use
< and related difficulties, or on the family histories of other
< psychiatric disorders. The results are consistent with previous
< studies demonstrating a lower prevalence of heavy drinking and
< related problems among Jews.
Or maybe the higher rate of divorces and single mothers in Bible belt
states. Or the fact that conservative Christians have the highest
divorce rates, while atheists have the lowest rates (this as measure
by Barna, a noted Christian polling group):
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Or of drunk driving deaths:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/18/national/main533451.shtml
South Carolina, Montana, Louisiana, have the highest alcohol death
rates among the states, all conservative states with a high percentage
of self-righteous Bible thumpers. Look at the states with the lowest
rates:
Utah, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine,
Virginia, Indiana and California.
All of the "blue"-est liberal states are on that list, and almost all
of the states mentioned are both liberal and low in church attendance
(Utah being a noteworthy exception, but you don't consider Mormons to
be Christians, so they arguably have one of the lowest percentages of
Christians in the country).
Gambling is so ubiquitous that I doubt of there are statistics based
on religion
http://www.ncpgambling.org/about_problem/about_problem_faq.asp
<How widespread is gambling in the U.S.?
<Approximately 85% of U.S. adults have gambled at least once in their
< lives; 60% in the past year.
are some kind of joy for those going through them.
If people did not enjoy sex, gambling and drinking, they wouldn't do
them. Most things that people enjoy have risks. (So do a lot of
things that people don't enjoy, but are still obliged to do anyway in
order to make it through life). If people did not think that the
"joy" was sufficient to be worth the risk, they wouldn't do those
sorts of things. But clearly they do, since they still enjoy them.
They may not enjoy the consequences, but those consequences are their
own, and not something that some evil spirit did to them.
lojbab
.
|
|
|
| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
|
| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 08:36:54 AM |
|
|
On May 6, 5:46 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
Nonbelievers won't give a damn until that day comes.
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Nonbelievers don't believe in the devil.
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom.
Saying it don't make it so.
They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it.
Since you have yet to demonstrate any sign of these rights and
privileges, the nonbeliever is free to tell you that you are full of
*****. (So are believers like me, of course).
However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Alas, they don't seem to be suffering. And in this country, they are
subject to no kings.
You don't think non-christians are suffering?
"Suffering" is a mental state. Since they don't think that they are
"suffering", I rather doubt that they are.
I guess the effects of drug abuse
Nothing to do with being Christian or not. There are plenty of
perfectly good Christians who have abused drugs, with alcohol and
nicotine and caffeine being among the most notorious drugs that get
abused in this country. The former has destroyed far more Christian
families than there have ever been abusers of those drugs which our
government chooses to call "illegal".
and destroyed lives
Plenty of Christians who have suffered that
(from the devil's influence)
The non believer doesn't believe that any problems that he has are due
to "the devil's influence". Far better to accept responsibility for
one's own mistakes, or to blame the mistakes of other human beings,
than to blame some ultra-powerful imaginary evil spirit.
are blessings to you.
They are neither "sufferings" nor "blessings". ***** happens. That is
life. Most of us would be bored if nothing happened. Some of us,
notably the young, tend to push the edge of what they will try UNTIL
bad things start to happen, and then they try to ride the thrilling
roller coaster ride along the line between adventure and failure.
I see that you think bankruptcy from gambling, AIDS
from premarital sex, and deaths from drunk driving
None of which have anything to do with being Christian or
non-Christian, since Christians partake of all of those things pretty
much to the same extent that non-Christians do.
You seem to think that being "Christian" has something to do with
being virtuous. May I remind you of Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy
Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and uncounted othershttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_televangelist_scandals
Or maybe:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0978/is_n4_v15/ai_8283767
<Data from a questionnaire sent to 704 male university students and
< nonacademic staff were reanalyzed to compare self-reports of drug and
< alcohol intake patterns and problems as well as family histories of
< psychiatric disorders for Jewish (N = 110, Group 1) and Christian men
< (N = 594, Group 2). Although the two groups did not differ
< significantly on the quantity and frequency of alcohol intake, men in
< Group 2 were more likely to report at least one episode of heavy
< drinking and alcohol-related problems, and their responses indicated
< a higher rate of a family history of alcoholism. There were no
< differences across the groups on the proportion of lifetime drug use
< and related difficulties, or on the family histories of other
< psychiatric disorders. The results are consistent with previous
< studies demonstrating a lower prevalence of heavy drinking and
< related problems among Jews.
Or maybe the higher rate of divorces and single mothers in Bible belt
states. Or the fact that conservative Christians have the highest
divorce rates, while atheists have the lowest rates (this as measure
by Barna, a noted Christian polling group):http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Or of drunk driving deaths:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/18/national/main533451.shtml
South Carolina, Montana, Louisiana, have the highest alcohol death
rates among the states, all conservative states with a high percentage
of self-righteous Bible thumpers. Look at the states with the lowest
rates:
Utah, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine,
Virginia, Indiana and California.
All of the "blue"-est liberal states are on that list, and almost all
of the states mentioned are both liberal and low in church attendance
(Utah being a noteworthy exception, but you don't consider Mormons to
be Christians, so they arguably have one of the lowest percentages of
Christians in the country).
Gambling is so ubiquitous that I doubt of there are statistics based
on religionhttp://www.ncpgambling.org/about_problem/about_problem_faq.asp
<How widespread is gambling in the U.S.?
<Approximately 85% of U.S. adults have gambled at least once in their
< lives; 60% in the past year.
are some kind of joy for those going through them.
If people did not enjoy sex, gambling and drinking, they wouldn't do
them. Most things that people enjoy have risks. (So do a lot of
things that people don't enjoy, but are still obliged to do anyway in
order to make it through life). If people did not think that the
"joy" was sufficient to be worth the risk, they wouldn't do those
sorts of things. But clearly they do, since they still enjoy them.
They may not enjoy the consequences, but those consequences are their
own, and not something that some evil spirit did to them.
lojbab
You are so blind.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
|
| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
07 May 2007 12:16:00 PM |
|
|
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com>
On May 6, 5:46 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
(The Power to Curse)
Luke 10:10-12
"10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go
your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, 11 Even the very
dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you:
notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come
nigh unto you. 12 But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable
in that day for Sodom, than for that city."
Nonbelievers won't give a damn until that day comes.
(The Power over all the power of the Devil)
Nonbelievers don't believe in the devil.
Until the Lord returns, Christians live in a dual citizenship and a
dual Kingdom.
Saying it don't make it so.
They are subject to man's laws, but they are part of
the Kingdom of God with all the rights and privileges that comes with
it.
Since you have yet to demonstrate any sign of these rights and
privileges, the nonbeliever is free to tell you that you are full of
*****. (So are believers like me, of course).
However, non-Christians do not have that benefit and are subject,
also, to a dual Kingdom, that of man and the kingdom of darkness.
And, without God's protective and Providential Kingdom, they will
suffer under it's reign.
Alas, they don't seem to be suffering. And in this country, they are
subject to no kings.
You don't think non-christians are suffering?
"Suffering" is a mental state. Since they don't think that they are
"suffering", I rather doubt that they are.
I guess the effects of drug abuse
Nothing to do with being Christian or not. There are plenty of
perfectly good Christians who have abused drugs, with alcohol and
nicotine and caffeine being among the most notorious drugs that get
abused in this country. The former has destroyed far more Christian
families than there have ever been abusers of those drugs which our
government chooses to call "illegal".
and destroyed lives
Plenty of Christians who have suffered that
(from the devil's influence)
The non believer doesn't believe that any problems that he has are due
to "the devil's influence". Far better to accept responsibility for
one's own mistakes, or to blame the mistakes of other human beings,
than to blame some ultra-powerful imaginary evil spirit.
are blessings to you.
They are neither "sufferings" nor "blessings". ***** happens. That is
life. Most of us would be bored if nothing happened. Some of us,
notably the young, tend to push the edge of what they will try UNTIL
bad things start to happen, and then they try to ride the thrilling
roller coaster ride along the line between adventure and failure.
I see that you think bankruptcy from gambling, AIDS
from premarital sex, and deaths from drunk driving
None of which have anything to do with being Christian or
non-Christian, since Christians partake of all of those things pretty
much to the same extent that non-Christians do.
You seem to think that being "Christian" has something to do with
being virtuous. May I remind you of Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy
Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and uncounted othershttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_televangelist_scandals
Or maybe:http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0978/is_n4_v15/ai_8283767
<Data from a questionnaire sent to 704 male university students and
< nonacademic staff were reanalyzed to compare self-reports of drug and
< alcohol intake patterns and problems as well as family histories of
< psychiatric disorders for Jewish (N = 110, Group 1) and Christian men
< (N = 594, Group 2). Although the two groups did not differ
< significantly on the quantity and frequency of alcohol intake, men in
< Group 2 were more likely to report at least one episode of heavy
< drinking and alcohol-related problems, and their responses indicated
< a higher rate of a family history of alcoholism. There were no
< differences across the groups on the proportion of lifetime drug use
< and related difficulties, or on the family histories of other
< psychiatric disorders. The results are consistent with previous
< studies demonstrating a lower prevalence of heavy drinking and
< related problems among Jews.
Or maybe the higher rate of divorces and single mothers in Bible belt
states. Or the fact that conservative Christians have the highest
divorce rates, while atheists have the lowest rates (this as measure
by Barna, a noted Christian polling group):http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Or of drunk driving deaths:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/18/national/main533451.shtml
South Carolina, Montana, Louisiana, have the highest alcohol death
rates among the states, all conservative states with a high percentage
of self-righteous Bible thumpers. Look at the states with the lowest
rates:
Utah, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine,
Virginia, Indiana and California.
All of the "blue"-est liberal states are on that list, and almost all
of the states mentioned are both liberal and low in church attendance
(Utah being a noteworthy exception, but you don't consider Mormons to
be Christians, so they arguably have one of the lowest percentages of
Christians in the country).
Gambling is so ubiquitous that I doubt of there are statistics based
on religionhttp://www.ncpgambling.org/about_problem/about_problem_faq.asp
<How widespread is gambling in the U.S.?
<Approximately 85% of U.S. adults have gambled at least once in their
< lives; 60% in the past year.
are some kind of joy for those going through them.
If people did not enjoy sex, gambling and drinking, they wouldn't do
them. Most things that people enjoy have risks. (So do a lot of
things that people don't enjoy, but are still obliged to do anyway in
order to make it through life). If people did not think that the
"joy" was sufficient to be worth the risk, they wouldn't do those
sorts of things. But clearly they do, since they still enjoy them.
They may not enjoy the consequences, but those consequences are their
own, and not something that some evil spirit did to them.
lojbab
You are so blind.
Oh? Which of his contentions -- and references -- were wrong,
and what is your basis for saying so?
-- cary
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 09:44:40 AM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
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| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 10:12:23 AM |
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On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 11:14:00 PM |
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On May 6, 2007, Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote
(in article <1178464343.334317.44600@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>):
On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
From your posts, I've never seen you show any integrity at all nor
any moral courage.
You're just a child with a small vocabulary, limited intelligence and
no actual education, nor the ability to think rationally.
You're a loser who identifies with losers.
Gray Shockley
----------------------------
The rapture is not an exit strategy
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
06 May 2007 02:16:25 PM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Alas, you are the one who starts your proselytization threads, so
you've asked for all the insults you get back in return.
When you show respect for others, maybe they will show respect in
return. You know "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course it takes some modicum of intelligence to respect the
intelligence of others, so all you can do is insult everyone's
intelligence.
lojbab
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| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
07 May 2007 08:09:57 AM |
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On May 6, 2:16 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Alas, you are the one who starts your proselytization threads, so
you've asked for all the insults you get back in return.
When you show respect for others, maybe they will show respect in
return. You know "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course it takes some modicum of intelligence to respect the
intelligence of others, so all you can do is insult everyone's
intelligence.
lojbab
So, you admit you are a hypocrite and liar? You just said you DON'T
proselytize your views nor condemn others for having a different
view. Then, you justify yourself for proselytizing your views to me
and condemning me for having a different point of view. Hypocrite and
liar...
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
07 May 2007 05:18:52 PM |
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No wonder you're "Wide Eyed in Wonder".
The whole world is a mystery to you.
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178543397.935941.318420@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 6, 2:16 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Alas, you are the one who starts your proselytization threads, so
you've asked for all the insults you get back in return.
When you show respect for others, maybe they will show respect in
return. You know "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course it takes some modicum of intelligence to respect the
intelligence of others, so all you can do is insult everyone's
intelligence.
lojbab
So, you admit you are a hypocrite and liar? You just said you DON'T
proselytize your views nor condemn others for having a different
view. Then, you justify yourself for proselytizing your views to me
and condemning me for having a different point of view. Hypocrite and
liar...
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
07 May 2007 01:27:34 PM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 2:16 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Alas, you are the one who starts your proselytization threads, so
you've asked for all the insults you get back in return.
When you show respect for others, maybe they will show respect in
return. You know "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course it takes some modicum of intelligence to respect the
intelligence of others, so all you can do is insult everyone's
intelligence.
lojbab
So, you admit you are a hypocrite and liar?
Nope.
You just said you DON'T proselytize your views
I don't. Learn the meaning of the word.
nor condemn others for having a different view.
That is not what I said. Learn to read.
"I am merely aware of how those who do not believe what I believe
think, perhaps because I was once there myself". Clearly, I am
referring to non-Christians. I then said that "I respect their right
to believe what they wish" referring to those same non-Christians.
THEM, not YOU. I then said that I don't proselytize THEM, not you.
Now it happens that I do respect your right to believe what you wish
no matter how stupid they are, and I do not proselytize you (which if
you've looked up the word has to do with trying to convert you to my
own beliefs - something I haven't the slightest interest in doing,
since I don't give a damn what you believe).
But I reserve the right to ridicule your *posting* your silly beliefs,
and to provide counter evidence, especially since you are posting
off-topic in an *education* newsgroup.
Then, you justify yourself for proselytizing your views to me
I do not proselytize my views. Actually, I don't usually state my own
views, except the view that you are an ignorant idiot who serves
Satan.
and condemning me for having a different point of view.
Nope (not that I said any such thing - you won't find the word
"condemn" in the stuff you quoted of mine above).
I condemn your POSTING your SILLY and IGNORANT point of view, and your
doing so off-topic in an education newsgroup.
I do not condemn you for having a different point of view.
Hypocrite and liar...
When you stop practicing those two traits yourself, maybe your
assertion will mean something to someone besides you.
Until then, it is a pathetic attempt to make someone other than you
(and your posts) the target of universal ridicule.
lojbab
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| User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
07 May 2007 03:57:29 PM |
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On May 7, 1:27 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 2:16 pm, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 6, 9:44 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
Wide Eyed in Wonder <kand...@hotmail.com> wrote:
You are so blind.
I am not blind at all. I am merely aware of how those who do not
believe what I believe think, perhaps because I was once there myself.
And unlikely you, I respect their right to believe what they wish,
without subjecting them to unwanted proselytization.
lojbab
REALLY? I don't want your proselytization of your views and
condemnation of my views, so, according to your post, I should not see
your responses to my posts from now on...to do so would make you a
hypocrite. We'll see.
Alas, you are the one who starts your proselytization threads, so
you've asked for all the insults you get back in return.
When you show respect for others, maybe they will show respect in
return. You know "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
Of course it takes some modicum of intelligence to respect the
intelligence of others, so all you can do is insult everyone's
intelligence.
lojbab
So, you admit you are a hypocrite and liar?
Nope.
You just said you DON'T proselytize your views
I don't. Learn the meaning of the word.
nor condemn others for having a different view.
That is not what I said. Learn to read.
"I am merely aware of how those who do not believe what I believe
think, perhaps because I was once there myself". Clearly, I am
referring to non-Christians. I then said that "I respect their right
to believe what they wish" referring to those same non-Christians.
THEM, not YOU. I then said that I don't proselytize THEM, not you.
Now it happens that I do respect your right to believe what you wish
no matter how stupid they are, and I do not proselytize you (which if
you've looked up the word has to do with trying to convert you to my
own beliefs - something I haven't the slightest interest in doing,
since I don't give a damn what you believe).
But I reserve the right to ridicule your *posting* your silly beliefs,
and to provide counter evidence, especially since you are posting
off-topic in an *education* newsgroup.
Being Critical of my point of view....
Then, you justify yourself for proselytizing your views to me
I do not proselytize my views. Actually, I don't usually state my own
views, except the view that you are an ignorant idiot who serves
Satan.
EVERY response you have posted to my posts have you pushing your point
of view.
and condemning me for having a different point of view.
Nope (not that I said any such thing - you won't find the word
"condemn" in the stuff you quoted of mine above).
I condemn your POSTING your SILLY and IGNORANT point of view, and your
doing so off-topic in an education newsgroup.
Not only did you JUST do it again, you are trying to define EDUCATION
by your point of view, too. Just think for a minute. .... religious
EDUCATION...what is that?
I do not condemn you for having a different point of view.
You are doing it right now.
Hypocrite and liar...
When you stop practicing those two traits yourself, maybe your
assertion will mean something to someone besides you.
Until then, it is a pathetic attempt to make someone other than you
(and your posts) the target of universal ridicule.
lojbab
Do you have a split personality? You are arguing with yourself here.
Ken Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Kingdom of God |
07 May 2007 09:39:51 PM |
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Wide Eyed in Wonder <kands00@hotmail.com> wrote:
But I reserve the right to ridicule your *posting* your silly beliefs,
and to provide counter evidence, especially since you are posting
off-topic in an *education* newsgroup.
Being Critical of my point of view....
Your point of view is idiotic, but you have every right to continue to
be an idiot and believe idiotic things. I certainly don't care.
Then, you justify yourself for proselytizing your views to me
I do not proselytize my views. Actually, I don't usually state my own
views, except the view that you are an ignorant idiot who serves
Satan.
EVERY response you have posted to my posts have you pushing your point
of view.
Nope. I rarely state my point of view on anything other than the
idiocy of your point of view.
And I don't "push" that point of view on anyone. They can decide for
themselves whether you are an idiot, an imbecile, or something else.
and condemning me for having a different point of view.
Nope (not that I said any such thing - you won't find the word
"condemn" in the stuff you quoted of mine above).
I condemn your POSTING your SILLY and IGNORANT point of view, and your
doing so off-topic in an education newsgroup.
Not only did you JUST do it again,
Learn what words mean.
you are trying to define EDUCATION by your point of view, too.
Nope. I am abiding by what the vast majority of the English speaking
world defines "education" to be, within the context of Usenet.
Just think for a minute. .... religious EDUCATION...what is that?
Discussing it is fine. Practicing it doesn't belong in the education
newsgroups.
I do not condemn you for having a different point of view.
You are doing it right now.
Nope. I condemn your posting habits. God will condemn *you* if
appropriate; I don't need to.
But I can insult you just fine, loser.
lojbab
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