| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"dpr" |
| Date: |
01 Oct 2003 11:07:47 PM |
| Object: |
USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest problem
facing America? And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state? Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state, because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want to
cry.
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document. And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
It was created whole cloth in 1947 by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the "Real
Deal."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
.
|
|
| User: "Bradley K. Sherman" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
01 Oct 2003 11:03:41 PM |
|
|
| Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies
| solely between man and his God, that he owes account to
| none other for is faith or his worship, that the legislative
| powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I
| contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole
| American people which declared that their legislature should
| "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
| prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall
| of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this
| expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of
| the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere
| satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to
| restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no
| natural right in opposition to his social duties.
(Andrew Lipscomb and Albert Bergh, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson,
Vol., 16, pp. 281-282)
--bks
.
|
|
|
| User: "dpr" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 12:24:49 AM |
|
|
"Bradley K. Sherman" <bks@panix.com> wrote in message
news:blg82t$3fg$1@panix2.panix.com...
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest problem
facing America? And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state? Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state, because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want to
cry.
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document. And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
It was created whole cloth in 1947 by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the "Real
Deal."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 11:49:12 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 0:24:49 -0500, dpr wrote
(in message <vnnd8g91s6ie6d@corp.supernews.com>):
"Bradley K. Sherman" <bks@panix.com> wrote in message
news:blg82t$3fg$1@panix2.panix.com...
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest problem
facing America?
And, pray tell, little scholar, what would /you/ rank as being moore <not sp>
important the the Bill of Rights?
"Talabama" isn't really a joke, strange one.
And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state?
Sure; so can about everyone else on the newsgroup (except - obviously the Big
DiPpeR.
Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state,
Actually, it's "wall of separation" by Thomas Jefferson. Last time I heard
this was in a well-publicized document by one of our most distinbuished
"founders".
because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want to
cry.
As well it should.
Of course, if you wish you could try to say that Thomas Jefferson is not
/really/ one of our nation's founders. Is that what history scholar, Joe
Scarborough, says?
Or, is a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in
1802 not a founder's "document"? Is that what renowned author and
distinguished scholar of founder's documents, Joe Scarborough, has to say?
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document.
Bad guess; you should have done some research before you started shouting,
not realizing that your mouth was loaded.
And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
Bad guess. And not only are you quited wrong in your assertion, you have
managed to drag down our resident scholar, "dpr", whose ears and eyes are as
a garbage disposal and whose mouth is like unto a sewer.
It was created whole cloth in 1947
Actually, more like the Supremes used Thomas Jefferson's letter to the
Danbury Baptist Association as part of the quilt of American law which - as
Thomas Jefferson wrote in another letter about theocrats in his time:
--------------------------------------------------------
I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not
forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it,
that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present
dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease
neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many
to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it
would reconcile the _genus irritabile vatum_ who are all in arms
against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be
softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it
possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the
prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which,
while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom
of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of
obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro'
the U. S.;
and as every sect believes its own form the true one,
every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians
& Congregationalists.
The returning good sense of our country
threatens abortion to their hopes, &
they believe that any portion of
power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes.
And they believe rightly;
for I have sworn upon the altar of god,
eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.".
--------------------------------------------------------
Separation of clauses and sentences of Founding Father Thomas Jefferson is,
of course, mine; that is - in the letter to Dr. Rush (Sep. 23, 1800) - a
single paragraph.
--------------------------------------------------------
by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the "Real
Deal."
"'Real Deal'"?
It appears that Joe Scarborough is dealing marked cards from the bottom of
the deck.
It also appears the DPR (the "Big Dipper") learned copy'n'paste but nothing
else. Is this deviant so unable to think that he has to use other people's
material because he is totally - even to himself - so incompetent?
As I wrote before - I start every quarter off with a new copy of my
newsreader and no filters. I'm beginning to remember why I "twit-filtered"
the Big Dipper right after the start of last quarter. His favorite color is
surely maroon.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 12:51:05 PM |
|
|
Gray Shockley <gray-11@cybercoffee.org> wrote:
:|On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 0:24:49 -0500, dpr wrote
:|> Law students, please
:|> turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
:|> founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state,
:|
Since I don't get any of Dana's posts or replies I will have to pick this
way
Dear Dana
The words separation of church and state arent in the Constitution. That
is very true. However, that is irrelevant since there is a "separation
clause" in the unamended constitution
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
03 Oct 2003 11:19:16 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:51:05 -0500, wrote
(in message <pvoonvshccmnf5l47f70295hrvf4saa3po@4ax.com>):
Gray Shockley <gray-11@cybercoffee.org> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 0:24:49 -0500, dpr wrote
Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by
our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state,
Since I don't get any of Dana's posts or replies I will have to pick this
way
I archive my newsreader and its contents every three months and install a new
copy of the news reader.
Starting off with only one filter (which simply gets the message bodies as
well as the headers in one fell swoop (or "Swell Foop" if you're "into" him).
Then I install killfilters as I decide that some fanatic or dumbass isn't
teaching me anything so s/he/it might as well be killed (filed <grin>).
And so on, every three months. I've been doing this for a cuple years now and
- at times - it'sinteresting to go back and see what so-and-so had to xay
about whatchamightcallit.
Gray Shockley
-------------------------------------------------
Pain is evitable but suffering is optional.
Dear Dana
The words separation of church and state arent in the Constitution. That
is very true. However, that is irrelevant since there is a "separation
clause" in the unamended constitution
.
|
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|
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 12:22:40 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:07:47 -0500, dpr wrote
(in message <vnn8o1s91p2abf@corp.supernews.com>):
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest problem
facing America? And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state? Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state, because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want to
cry.
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document. And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
It was created whole cloth in 1947 by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the "Real
Deal."
Notice that this "Joe Scarborough" is saying that the "separation" was
created out of "whole cloth".
Now is this "Joe Scarborough" so totally ignorant of United States history
that "he" really doesn't know of the:
<http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_dba.html>
Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
To Messrs. Nehemiah Dodge and Others, a Committee of the Danbury Baptist
Association,
in the State of Connecticut. January 1, 1802.
by Thomas Jefferson
[G]entlemen, ‹ The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which
you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist
Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful
and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as
they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them
becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man
and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship,
that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not
opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole
American people which declared that their legislature should ³make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof,² thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of
the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress
of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights,
convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common
Father and Creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious
association, assurances of my high respect and esteem.
( Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Danbury Baptist Association, January 1,
1802; from Merrill D. Peterson, ed., Thomas Jefferson: Writings, New York:
Library of America, 1994, p. 510. )
------------------------------------------------------------------------
or is "he" a "dishonest broker"?
Judging from the Dipper who posted this lie, I would guess that birds of a
feather, etc.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
Everything is always the worst it's ever been.
.
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|
| User: "dpr" |
|
| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 12:38:21 AM |
|
|
"Gray Shockley" <gray-11@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BBA1205000099C3A12BADBE0@news.giganews.com...
On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:07:47 -0500, dpr wrote
(in message <vnn8o1s91p2abf@corp.supernews.com>):
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal
buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the
Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings
up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest
problem
facing America? And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the
most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's
so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding
document
contained the words separation of church and state? Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by
our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state,
because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and
state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want
to
cry.
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in
the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document. And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and
state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even
exist
in our founding documents.
It was created whole cloth in 1947 by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a
question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why
are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the
"Real
Deal."
Notice that this "Joe Scarborough" is saying that the "separation" was
created out of "whole cloth".
And you cannot prove it was not. So what is your point.
Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
A letter to the Danbury Baptist Association is not law, nor is it part of
the Constitution.
So is that all you have. How weak.
--
In the eyes of government, we are all one race here. It is American."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.Justice Antonio
Scalia
Adarand Constructors, Inc. v. Peña
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
|
| Title: Really Bad Choice to Back Up dpr's Position [Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947] |
02 Oct 2003 02:38:33 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 0:38:21 -0500, dpr wrote
(in message <vnne1ss01hp57@corp.supernews.com>):
Notice that this "Joe Scarborough" is saying that the "separation" was
created out of "whole cloth".
And you cannot prove it was not. So what is your point.
Ah, you don't know what "whole cloth" means. It's an old Southern
excpression.
Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
A letter to the Danbury Baptist Association is not law, nor is it part of
the Constitution.
But your little mass media buddy, Joe Scarborough, stated:
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's
not in the Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding
document. And this great concept, this wonderful concept, t
his separation of church and state concept that, by God,
our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
Hate to have to break this to ya, young 'en, but all the
letters, speeches, and any other communications of
the flounders are "founding documents".
Now - if you want to say that nothing in the letters, speeches or any other
communications are "founding documents", you welcome to do so.
However, be aware, that there will probably be a lot of folks reading your
every communique to make sure that you never use these documents to buttress
your positiion on anything whatsoever. You sure you still want to agree with
your newsboy's "whole cloth" argument?
So is that all you have. How weak.
Well, let's see. We have:
dpr - argument of Joe Scarborough
Gray Shockley of Vicksburg, Mississippi US - argument of Thomas Jefferson
So it appears my "side" is that of a Founding Father and your "side" is that
of a tv entertainer.
But wait! There's moore (new spelling)!
Did you know that Representative Joe Scarborough resigned from Congress nine
months into his last term?
[I didn't either; I just came acrooss this because Scarborough seemed such an
ignorant moral *****.]
--------------------------------------------------------
<http://www.allhatnocattle.net/congressman_joe_scarborough.htm>
"Which Republican U.S. Congressman had a dead aide found in his office while
the media was hounding Democrat U.S. Congressman Gary Condit?"
[picture of the congressman who resigned (Joe Scarborough]
"Joe Scarborough was recently rewarded
by MSNBC with his own talk show."
--------------------------------------------------------
So, it appears that our opposing sides have one thing in common: a dead
person.
Mine was Thomas Jefferson who has been dead a long time.
Your's appears to be Lori Klausutis who was found dead in one of Congressman
Scarborough's offices (and I'm certainly not linking ole Joe to this apparent
murder but I do find it "interesting."
Continuing from the All Hat No Cattle article:
--------------------------------------------------------
Our Editorial: 9-15-01- All Hat No Cattle
Republican stronghold gives kid-glove treatment to local U.S. Congressman Joe
Scarborough
When this story first broke in the Florida panhandle, we wondered if we
were in store for some Gary Condit-style media coverage. Needless to say,
this story never made national TV. The big boys of broadcast had their
sights set solely on Condit and had no time to cover the unusual death of a
healthy, politically active 28-year-old female aide in a U.S. Congressman's
district office.
The so-called Liberal national media -- quite the opposite in this
instance as in so many others -- felt it was more important to keep plucking
feathers from their latest Democrat goose than to ruffle the feathers of a
Republican Congressman who unexpectedly resigned just a few months after
being reelected. Now an aide had been found dead in his office, but the
national news media simply weren't interested.
After all was said and done, a few things became quite clear. The
authorities, mainly the police who investigated the scene, gave the
appearance of a cover-up by immediately stating that there were no signs of
foul play. It subsequently was revealed that the dead woman had a bad wound
to her forehead, which seemed to fly in the face of the initial statements by
investigators. If this wasn't an example of poor police work, it most
certainly was a case of bumbled media and public relations.
How could police rule out foul play until they knew the cause of the
wound, before an autopsy was conducted and toxicology tests performed?
The local newspaper, the Northwest Florida Daily News, tried to get
information from local authorities and claimed they were sandbagged at every
turn . No one suggested that the Congressman had anything to do with the
death, but the manner in which authorities handled the press shows one
thing. They gave the benefit of the doubt to the popular Republican
Congressman, and it is doubtful they would have done the same for any
ordinary Joe.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Questions still left unanswered
1. Why did the police state, before all the evidence was analyzed , that
there were no signs of foul play the day that Lori Klausutis' body was found?
2. Why didn't police reveal the fact of the head injuries?
3. Why did the dead woman's obituary, which noted every other highlight of
her life and career, did not make any mention of the years she had spent
working for Joe Scarborough?
4. Why didn't the police believe the security guard who was the only eye
witness?
5. Why isn't there a picture of Lori Klausutis?
--------------------------------------------------------
"Interesting" person you chose to quote.
Do you think there was a connection between former Congressman Scarborough
and the death of the young woman?
--------------------------------------------------------
Here's some moore <new spelling> from the "All Hat No Cattle" site:
<http://www.allhatnocattle.net/congressman_joe_scarborough.htm>
Joe Scarborough's activities since November 2000 to present
November 2000 Stumped for George W. Bush right until election day. Then
Scarborough made national TV talk show rounds in defending Bush's
controversial victory.
May 2001 Scarborough surprises northwest Florida by resigning only
a few months into his two-year term. Pensacola News Journal editorial
July 2001 Joe Scarborough's aide is found dead in his Ft. Walton
Beach office.
August 2001 Authorities refuse to release autopsy reports on the dead
aide.
Editorial 8-23-01
October 2002 Lawyer in the law firm of Fred Levin. Also writes
commentary for the Pensacola News Journal.
February 2003 MSNBC Host filling in for Nachman
June 2003 Former U.S. Rep. Scarborough debuts on MSNBC show
The Associated Press 4-4-03
Former U.S. Rep. Joe Scarborough made his debut as anchor of a national cable
news show about the United States' showdown with Iraq and is scheduled to
stay in the role indefinitely...Scarborough was elected to four terms but
retired in midterm to spend more time with his two sons.
Inquiring minds want to know: Why would MSNBC hire a resigned US Congressman
who had a dead aide found in his office soon after his resignation, all the
while MSNBC was hounding Gray Condit? MSNBC hired Scarborough instead of
investigating him.
--------------------------------------------------------
Last question: would you buy an used historical/political opinion from this
man?
Gray Shockley
--------------------------------------------------------
Everything is always the worst it's ever been.
.
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Really Bad Choice to Back Up dpr's Position [Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947] |
02 Oct 2003 05:21:45 PM |
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Gray Shockley wrote:
But wait! There's moore (new spelling)!
Did you know that Representative Joe Scarborough resigned from Congress nine
months into his last term?
[I didn't either; I just came acrooss this because Scarborough seemed such an
ignorant moral *****.]
.. . .
"Interesting" person you chose to quote.
Do you think there was a connection between former Congressman Scarborough
and the death of the young woman?
.. . .
Last question: would you buy an used historical/political opinion from this
man?
And did you do this research all by yourself, or is there a TeamShockley?
[Move over Al.]
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: dpr's Position (prone, unsupported) [was:Really Bad Choice to Back Up] |
03 Oct 2003 09:53:11 PM |
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:21:45 -0500, Carol Lee Smith wrote
(in message <Pine.OSF.3.96.1031002171923.23050E-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>):
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Gray Shockley wrote:
But wait! There's moore (new spelling)!
Did you know that Representative Joe Scarborough resigned from Congress
nine
months into his last term?
[I didn't either; I just came acrooss this because Scarborough seemed such
an
ignorant moral *****.]
. . .
"Interesting" person you chose to quote.
Do you think there was a connection between former Congressman Scarborough
and the death of the young woman?
. . .
Last question: would you buy an used historical/political opinion from
this
man?
And did you do this research all by yourself, or is there a TeamShockley?
Just I.
I got my first computer in 1981 (in Germany) and got online in '85 so the
microcomputer world and my world were Venning all over the place.
But remember that I started messin' 'round with civil rights when I was
fifteen and got really involved the year after when I, finally, got a car
(1948 Dodge 4-door with fluid-drive (varoom)).
And a lot of my last years in the Army I was working R&D most of the time so
I got used to doing research there while - by night - I ran a computer BBS
and was a FidoNet "hub" (1:109/337.0) for, mostly, about two dozen BBS's in
the Fairfax County, Virginia, area (where lojbab lives).
Plus I have the advantage of being in pretty bad health so I get to sit
around a lot <grin>.
I'll guarantee my wife isn't part of /my/ research! She teaches a class
titled "4th Grade Discipline" (at a public "alternative" school) and is on
the last draft (yeah, right, sure) of her thesis for a M.A. in Anthropology.
And so forth and so one and all that stuff, dontchaknow.
Gray
[Move over Al.]
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| User: "dpr" |
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| Title: Re: Gray Shockleys Position (prone, unsupported) [was:Really Bad Choice to Back Up] |
03 Oct 2003 10:19:26 PM |
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"Gray Shockley" <gray-11@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BBA3A0470046935C160E6810@news.giganews.com...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:21:45 -0500, Carol Lee Smith wrote
(in message
<Pine.OSF.3.96.1031002171923.23050E-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>):
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: ReReReRe:Really Bad Choice to Back Up |
04 Oct 2003 01:33:43 AM |
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:19:26 -0500, dpr wrote
(in message <vnsela483k1ae7@corp.supernews.com>):
"Gray Shockley" <gray-11@cybercoffee.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BBA3A0470046935C160E6810@news.giganews.com...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:21:45 -0500, Carol Lee Smith wrote
(in message
<Pine.OSF.3.96.1031002171923.23050E-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>):
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights.
Ole peabrain sure bites the big, smelly one on this bad guess.
"Atheism" teaches nothing. (This is not /exactly/ like "Atheism teaches dpr"
but close; very, very close).
Only a total nitwit would come up with an attempt at a meaningful,
meaningless political slogan to use as s/he/it/they attempt(s) to bluff real
people into thinking this "dprness" is conscious.
Oh course, our little dpr thinks that "rights" fall out of the sky onto those
blessed with intelligence and chastity and the humble belief that their god
can beat the hell out of your god, so there.
So everyone is God's little chillun and we got all these nifty, bone-fiden
rights.
That's so nifty. But that ole God, s/he/it/they sorta didn't "God-give" any
rights to a lot of people in World War 2 or in Leninist-Stalinist USSR and
Idi Amin sorta dfidn't notice all those "God-given" rights that that ole God
to the people he slaughtered and the Bosnians seem to have missed out too.
And the AmerInds well sort of didn't have these "God-given" rights cuz those
white guys that came here on ships had better God-given rights from a better
God.
If you believe in "God-given rights", sit on your lard ***** and wait for them.
The grown-ups, however, will use our brains to decide what they are and our
blood - if necessary - to take and defend them.
During the American Revolution, those who believed in God-given rights were
called "Tories".
General Geo Washington and his associates, however, decided what were their
rights and then General Washington and another group of associates shoved
some powder and a ball down a barrel and started killing British troops and
Hessian troops and after they had lost a lot of people and after the Brits
and the Hessians had lost even more, the Brits stated - having seen some
really bad "B" movies - "We lose - me go home now".
And the Tories and the cowards were still sitiing out in the meadow, chewing
on dandelions and wondering why God had not let their rights settle out of
the sky like a spring morning rain.
It took years of research and study to, finally, get an answer as to why
these people sat out in that meadow for so long, eating dandelions and
waiting for God to give them their God-given rights. After all the study and
all the research, a speciially selected group of Christian Ministers and
swarmy cutthroats realeased their solution to the question: "Them sapsuckers
was some flatout stupid mothas".
And so it goes . . .
-- G-r-a-y <-- for those who read slowly
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 10:14:34 AM |
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Gray Shockley wrote:
Now is this "Joe Scarborough" so totally ignorant of United States history
Yes. It is evident in his opinion piece.
that "he" really doesn't know of the:
<http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/jefferson_dba.html>
Letter to the Danbury Baptist Association
<snip letter>
I was a bit surprised to see this "rooted" to Stephenjaygould.
Don't have time to go through the root links. Will do it later.
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
01 Oct 2003 11:15:37 PM |
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, dana p raffaniello posted:
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
... Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state?
I am so disappointed he didn't point out that the only place it can be
found is in the constitution of the Soviet Union!!!!!!!!!!!
Ya know, Raffaniello, this opinion piece has most of the same errors you
make. He also shares the propensity to promulgate distortions.
But at least he spells separation correctly.
It's time to write letters to MSNBC.
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| User: "dpr" |
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| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 12:26:02 AM |
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"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1031001231034.20660A-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
Here is what Carol cannot refute.
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest problem
facing America? And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state? Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state, because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want to
cry.
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document. And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
It was created whole cloth in 1947 by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the "Real
Deal."
--
Atheism teaches that there is no God, hence no God-given rights. That
ideology coupled with a system that believed in the superiority of the state
at the expense of the individual was murderously synergistic.
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: How many times did wacko Big Dipper post this? [was: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947] |
02 Oct 2003 11:52:13 AM |
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From: Gray Shockley <gray-11@cybercoffee.org>
Newsgroups: alt.education, alt.politics.bush, alt.politics.democrats.d,
alt.politics.liberalism, alt.politics.republicans,
alt.politics.usa.constitution, alt.politics.usa.republican
On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 0:24:49 -0500, dpr wrote
(in message <vnnd8g91s6ie6d@corp.supernews.com>):
"Bradley K. Sherman" <bks@panix.com> wrote in message
news:blg82t$3fg$1@panix2.panix.com...
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Aug. 28 - The presence of the Ten Commandments in other federal buildings
around the country recently prompted MSNBC's Joe Scarborough to cast a
critical eye towards protestors in upheaval over a statue inside the Alabama
Judicial Building. I'M SURE JUDGE Roy Moore has known all along in his
heart of hearts that there's such thing as judicial review and that he
couldn't go around ignoring federal judges' decisions. But Moore brings up a
more important question, a much larger question. In 2003, are Ten
Commandments monuments in Supreme Court rotundas really the biggest problem
facing America?
And, pray tell, little scholar, what would /you/ rank as being moore <not sp>
important the the Bill of Rights?
"Talabama" isn't really a joke, strange one.
And I've got to tell you, you know what bothers me the most
about this?
You have all of these people like ripping their shirts: Oh, it's so
awful. They are tearing apart our Constitution by allowing the Ten
Commandments to be in government buildings.
Time for a pop quiz, class. Can you tell me what founding document
contained the words separation of church and state?
Sure; so can about everyone else on the newsgroup (except - obviously the Big
DiPpeR.
Law students, please
turn to your parents right now and tell them which founding document by our
founding fathers contained the words separation of church and state,
Actually, it's "wall of separation" by Thomas Jefferson. Last time I heard
this was in a well-publicized document by one of our most distinbuished
"founders".
because
we understand that Moore is destroying the separation of church and state
that our founding fathers put in the Constitution! Oh, it makes me want to
cry.
As well it should.
Of course, if you wish you could try to say that Thomas Jefferson is not
/really/ one of our nation's founders. Is that what history scholar, Joe
Scarborough, says?
Or, is a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association in
1802 not a founder's "document"? Is that what renowned author and
distinguished scholar of founder's documents, Joe Scarborough, has to say?
The only problem is, its not in the Constitution. It's not in the
Bill of Rights. It's not in the Declaration of Independence. It's not in the
Federalist Papers. In fact, it's not in any founding document.
Bad guess; you should have done some research before you started shouting,
not realizing that your mouth was loaded.
And this
great concept, this wonderful concept, this separation of church and state
concept that, by God, our very republic was founded upon doesn't even exist
in our founding documents.
Bad guess. And not only are you quited wrong in your assertion, you have
managed to drag down our resident scholar, "dpr", whose ears and eyes are as
a garbage disposal and whose mouth is like unto a sewer.
It was created whole cloth in 1947
Actually, more like the Supremes used Thomas Jefferson's letter to the
Danbury Baptist Association as part of the quilt of American law which - as
Thomas Jefferson wrote in another letter about theocrats in his time:
--------------------------------------------------------
I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not
forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it,
that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present
dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease
neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many
to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it
would reconcile the _genus irritabile vatum_ who are all in arms
against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be
softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it
possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the
prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which,
while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom
of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of
obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro'
the U. S.;
and as every sect believes its own form the true one,
every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially
the Episcopalians & Congregationalists.
The returning good sense of our country
threatens abortion to their hopes, &
they believe that any portion of
power confided to me, will be exerted
in opposition to their schemes.
And they believe rightly;
for I have sworn upon the altar of god,
eternal hostility against
every
form of tyranny over the mind of man.".
--------------------------------------------------------
Separation of clauses and sentences of Founding Father Thomas Jefferson is,
of course, mine; that is - in the letter to Dr. Rush (Sep. 23, 1800) - a
single paragraph.
--------------------------------------------------------
by the United States Supreme
Court. So before everybody starts getting so upset about the Ten
Commandments being placed in the Alabama rotunda, ask yourself a question:
Why are they in the U.S. Supreme Court? Why are they in Congress? Why are
they in federal buildings all over Washington, D.C.? This is a bunch of
hypocrisy, folks. And if you don't like that, then you don't like the "Real
Deal."
"'Real Deal'"?
It appears that Joe Scarborough is dealing marked cards from the bottom of
the deck.
It also appears the DPR (the "Big Dipper") learned copy'n'paste but nothing
else. Is this deviant so unable to think that he has to use other people's
material because he is totally - even to himself - so incompetent?
As I wrote before - I start every quarter off with a new copy of my
newsreader and no filters. I'm beginning to remember why I "twit-filtered"
the Big Dipper right after the start of last quarter. His favorite color is
surely maroon.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
"Swinehood hath no remedy." - Sidney Lanier
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: USSC created Separation of church and state in 1947 |
02 Oct 2003 10:11:33 AM |
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, dpr wrote:
"Carol Lee Smith" <human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.3.96.1031001231034.20660A-100000@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu...
Here is what Carol cannot refute.
Oh, yes she can. Do you want it done (again).
The points Joe Scarborough is TRYING to make in his piece have been
discussed at length and reasons have been give as to why his arguments
(and yours) are crap, straw and devoid of any particle of accuracy.
Do you really want them again?
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/958517.asp?cp1=1
Alabama outcry is downright wrong
Joe Scarborough
Dana Raffaniello has no answers. He never has any evidence or proof to
support his opinions.
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