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Date:	04 Nov 2005 10:56:30 AM
Object:	Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics

http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=4305&TM=102.596
Wednesday, November 02, 2005
From center, Potts aims to buck polls
Wednesday, November 02, 2005
by Paula Amann
News Editor
A Winchester lawmaker is aiming to emulate Minnesota's Jesse Ventura,
Maine's Angus King and Connecticut's Lowell Weicker.
This trio of political independents beat major party candidates to win the
governorship in their respective states.
But Virginia State Sen. Russell Potts, 66, seems not to have captured much
voter attention in a three-way race for the state's top job with fellow
Republican Jerry Kilgore and Democrat Tim Kaine. Polls show his battle to
become governor lagging far behind the major party candidates.
Yet in an in-person interview, Potts argued that he could still muster a
Ventura-style win. He, King and Weicker "all got to 34 [percent] with
similar numbers," Potts said, citing a swath of undecided voters, and what
he calls his "principled stands on stem cell research, gay adoption and
abortion"
Despite a strong church-state separation stance, Potts does not appear to
pull more support among Jewish voters than among the commonwealth's general
electorate.
But Maggie Wolff Peterson, 47, of Winchester, likes Potts' unvarnished
political persona. "He's honest and he doesn't sugarcoat the issues," said
Peterson, a mother and freelance writer. "It's really his intent to make a
positive difference in the state." Peterson, a Republican who says she
advised the campaign on transportation policy, sees this issue as a Potts
strength.
"Russell Potts has a plan for improving transportation and a method to fund
it," said Peterson, a member of Beth El Congregation. "Neither of the other
two have that."
This plan, a centerpiece of his campaign, calls for both "more roads and
more mass transit."
Some $2 billion in revenues, he argues, could fund such projects as
widening I-66 inside the Beltway, expanding Northern Virginia Metro trains
from six to eight cars and laying the groundwork for another Potomac River
auto bridge.
To underwrite such efforts, Potts says he would draw on five funding
streams: tolls, a one-cent sales tax, a one-dollar tobacco tax, a 29
percent hike in real estate recordation tax and a one percent income tax
increase for people with incomes over $100,000. The Potts campaign draws
esteem and blame from left and right alike.
"I have a lot of respect for Russ Potts," said Clifton Democrat Joyce
Putnam, 49, calling him "straightforward," but for this Jewish labor
activist, "not as good on workers' issues."
Potts draws heat from Winchester's Rachel Schwartz, 36, for co-sponsoring
and voting for bill SJ337, which prohibits civil unions.
"When he came out later in support of single gay adoption, I was excited,
but I don't trust it, because I know of his support for this law I find
hateful," said Schwartz, a Democrat who backs Kilgore.
On the GOP side, Vienna's Steve Silver, 54, calls Potts a "spoiler" in the
governor's race.
Fellow Republican Dan Cohen, 47, of Alexandria credits Potts with "some
interesting ideas he attempted to inject into the race" but fears Potts
"will take more votes away from Kilgore" than from Kaine.
Born in Richmond, Potts grew up in Winchester with two working-class
parents. As a young boy, he talked his way into a paper route to supplement
the family income.
"I started paying for my clothes and meals when I was 8 years old," Potts
said.
While he was working his way through the University of Maryland at College
Park, he says he formed lifelong friendships with Jewish students there. A
former sports writer, Potts has a business promoting sports events, Russ
Potts Productions, Inc.
Married for 40 years this month to the former Emily Strite, the four-term
state senator has three grown daughters, whom he describes as
"accomplished" and "confident."
In his interview, Potts said he supports church-state separation in a range
of institutions, including the public schools.
"Our forefathers had it right," said Potts, with a nod to founding
patriarch James Madison. "He hoped that America would not be revisited by
the terrible intrusion of religion into politics and the schools."
In that vein, he opposes school vouchers and tuition tax credits to
underwrite private, sometimes sectarian, schools and is a foe of
faith-based funding.
As to the vexed question of reproductive rights, Potts espouses a woman's
right to choose an abortion and says he helped stop efforts in the state
Senate to block access to the morning-after pill. "I'm the only pro-choice
candidate in the race," Potts said. "I pledge to stop any effort to end Roe
v. Wade, if it's bounced back to the states."
He notes having introduced a bill on stem cell research in Richmond and
given a floor speech to promote it.
"I strongly support stem cell research," the Winchester lawmaker said.
Asked about how he would ensure fair application of the death penalty in
Virginia, which ranks No. 2 for executions in the country, Potts had no
concrete suggestions.
"I'm a strong proponent of the death penalty," he said, calling it an
"effective deterrent" and adding, "I believe the laws on the books are
sufficient to address the death penalty."
The Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington is on record
as opposing capital punishment, in part because of its disproportionate use
to punish the poor and members of minority groups.
In another decision of the past year, the JCRC has endorsed civil equality
for gays and lesbians.
"I do not support civil unions, but I support survivor benefits for gays,"
said Potts, who also flagged his backing for adoption by gays.
In the event that he is elected, Potts pledged continued funding of the
Virginia-Israel Advisory Board, which fosters commerce between the
commonwealth and the Jewish state, which he visited in the early '90s.
"I hope we can build upon those trade relationships with Israel," Potts
went on. "We ought to be selling them Virginia apples and Virginia peanuts,
and we ought to be buying Israeli computers."
This long-shot candidate frames his cause in terms of a growing discontent
with what he sees as the rightward trend of the state GOP.
"I believe in a clear separation of church and state and abhor the
direction of my Republican party," Potts said.
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	04 Nov 2005 11:52:47 AM

jalison/buckeye wrote:...
Subject: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls
Virginia Politics
MK. Discusswion deleted...
In his interview, Potts said he supports church-state separation in a
range of institutions, including the public schools.
"Our forefathers had it right," said Potts, with a nod to founding
patriarch James Madison. "He hoped that America would not be revisited
by the terrible intrusion of religion into politics and the schools."
In that vein, he opposes school vouchers and tuition tax credits to
underwrite private, sometimes sectarian, schools and is a foe of
faith-based funding.
MK. The earliest compulsory attendance statute in the British colonies
of North America "That Olde Deceiver Satan" act, gives religious
indoctrination as its explicit rationale. Polities in the
pre-Revolutionary colonies and the early post-colonial US typically
supported education through per pupil funding of Church-operated
schools, until waves of Catholic immigrants provoked an allergic
reaction in the Protestant majority. The US "public" school system,
which restricts a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers' K-12
education subsidy to schools operated by State (government, generally)
employees, originated in anti-Catholic bigotry and survives on
assiduous lobbying by public-sector unions and other system insiders.
MK. School vouchers, distributed in a non-discriminatory fashion (e.g.,
good at any accredited school) would be legal.
MK. Laurence Tribe (Harvard Law) From an editorial page
column in the Washington Post: ...[As the Heritage Foundation quotes
Harvard Law's Laurence Tribe on this subject: "Any objection that
anyone would have to a voucher program would have to be policy-based
and could not rest on legal doctrine. One would have to be awfully
clumsy to write voucher legislation that could not pass constitutional
scrutiny. . . . Aid to parents . . . would be constitutional."]...
MK. School vouchers are also good policy.
MK. Gerard Lassibile and Lucia Navarro Gomez, ["Organization and
Efficiency of Educational Systems: some empirical findings", pg. 16,
"Comparative Education", Vol. 36 #1, Feb 2000]. "Furthermore, the
regression results indicate that countries where private education is
more widespread perform significantly better than countries where it is
more limited. The result showing the private sector to be more
efficient is similar to those found in other contexts with individual
data (see, for example, Psucharopoulos, 1987; Jiminez, et. al, 1991).
This finding should convince countries to reconsider policies that
reduce the role of the private sector in the field of education".
http://www.rru.com/~meo/hs.minski.html (One page. Marvin Minsky comment
on school. Please read this.)
http://www.educationevolving.org/pdf/Adolescence.pdf
http://www.schoolchoices.org (Massive site. Useful links).
http://www.worldbank.org/research/journals/wbro/obsfeb97/educate.htm
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/egwest/pdfs/economics%20of%20compulsion.pdf
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	11 Nov 2005 01:51:57 PM

wrote:

:|jalison/buckeye wrote:...
:|
:|Subject: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls
:|Virginia Politics
:|
:|MK. Discusswion deleted...
:|
:|In his interview, Potts said he supports church-state separation in a
:|range of institutions, including the public schools.
:|
:|"Our forefathers had it right," said Potts, with a nod to founding
:|patriarch James Madison. "He hoped that America would not be revisited
:|by the terrible intrusion of religion into politics and the schools."
:|
:|In that vein, he opposes school vouchers and tuition tax credits to
:|underwrite private, sometimes sectarian, schools and is a foe of
:|faith-based funding.
:|
:|MK. The earliest compulsory attendance statute in the British colonies
:|of North America "That Olde Deceiver Satan" act, gives religious
:|indoctrination as its explicit rationale. Polities in the
:|pre-Revolutionary colonies and the early post-colonial US typically
:|supported education through per pupil funding of Church-operated
:|schools, until waves of Catholic immigrants provoked an allergic
:|reaction in the Protestant majority. The US "public" school system,
:|which restricts a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers' K-12
:|education subsidy to schools operated by State (government, generally)
:|employees, originated in anti-Catholic bigotry and survives on
:|assiduous lobbying by public-sector unions and other system insiders.

Look who is back with his usual propaganda.
The biased MK peddling his usual lies and misreprestations
I would recommned to this bitter ex teacher the following book

Oct 15 2004, 7:02 am show options
Newsgroups: alt.education, alt.politics.bush, alt.politics.democrats.d,
alt.politics.liberalism, alt.politics.usa.constitution,
alt.politics.usa.republican, misc.education
From:

(Info Junkie) wrote:

:|On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:52:31 -0400,

wrote:
:|
:|>For

(Info Junkie) wrote:
:|>
:|>The problem you are going to have here is going to be a major problem for
:|>you.
:|
:|So you claim Mr jalison (alias buckeye)
:|

Not only claim but demonstrate.
Your agreement is not required to make it so.

In my opinion?
Which, that there are 6 editions or that the 6th is largely a rewrite?
No opinion in either case
I personally own the 3rd edition and the 6th edition. A Barnes and Noble
store located at the Lynnhaven Mall here in Virginia beach, Va has the 5th
edition currently on sale.
This established there is a 4th edition:
Seller: spikehaney (Safe buying guarantee)
Rating: 5.0 stars over the past twelve months (1 ratings). Seller has 1
lifetime ratings.
Availability: Usually ships in 1-2 business days; Ships from NC, United
States.
See shipping rates
Comments: NOTE: THIS IS THE 4TH EDITION NOT THE 6TH. MINOR CHANGES. PRICED
TO SELL. GREAT SHAPE. DOES HAVE TEAR ON OUTSIDE OF SPINE.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/0534274242/ref=lp_g_1/...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O17021989
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here info about the 5th edition
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/053457744X/ref=pd_sim_b...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V26031989
Here is the info on the 6h Edition
http://newtexts.com/newtexts/book.cfm?book_id=1899
Intended for graduate-level courses in Education Law or School Law offered
in departments of Educational Administration, Leadership and Foundations in
Schools and Colleges of Education and elective law school courses in
Education and School Law.
This market-leading text for graduate-level courses in educational law is a
combined textbook/casebook that provides a comprehensive view of the law
that governs the public school system of America. The case method approach
allows instructors to involve discussion to discover and expose the
reasoning of the law. This helps students relate factual situations to the
law while recognizing similar experiences they may have as practicing
teachers and administrators.
New to This Edition
* For this comprehensive update, the authors have revised every chapter
with a view to the "3 C's": CONTEXT (historical, social and/or political
frame of reference); CONCEPT (the heart of the idea of law that a court or
legislature seeks to advance); and CONTENT (the subject matter,
ingredients, or components of the law that are applicable to public school
operation). They address the latest legislative trends and developments
throughout the text, such as the effects of "No Child Left Behind"
legislation.
* Chapter 2, "Historical Perspective of Public Schools," provides a
simplified explanation of both the historical and legal precedents that
formed America's public schools. Integral to this discussion is the
recognition of the fundamental importance of free and universal education
to a democracy. New material is added that helps explain the nature of
charter schools and their emergence as defining instruments of public
education.
* Chapter 3, "Role of the Federal Government," is a comprehensive
rewrite of earlier editions, explaining in far greater detail the legal
relationship between the federal and state governments in the control of
education. The chapter defines both the structural and the individual
rights provisions of the federal constitution, from which emanate federal
authority. Added to this chapter is a new section that addresses the issue
of the fundamentality of education--what it is and what it means.
* Chapter 5, "Church and State," addresses the turnaround of the U.S.
Supreme Court in its interpretation of the First Amendment's 'wall of
separation' between Church and State, permitting vouchers and the
expenditure of public funds for religious schools (the Helms and Zelman
cases). This chapter now includes further court precedents with regard to
�open forums' and the issue of the Free Speech Clause versus the
Establishment Clause. The authors also address precedents that have emerged
from state supreme courts concerning state constitutional prohibitions
regarding church and state.
* The authors have added information about new aspects of home
schooling in Chapter 6, "School Attendance," including precedents
permitting part-time attendance at public schools for home-schooled
students and part-time participation in public schools by home-schooled
students for extracurricular activities such as football, chorus and band.
* A revised Chapter 7, "The Instructional Program," addresses the
impact of the now more conservative federal courts, including increased
purging of curricular materials and books of 'objectionable' material
(e.g., Harry Potter and other works that have been 'quietly banned' in
several school districts with judicial acquiescence). In general, this
chapter investigates the tension between conservative values and the
necessity to expand knowledge. Finally, the chapter encompasses issues
pertaining to the high-stakes testing programs, raising further questions
regarding possible violation of due process and equal protection.
* To address the many vital developments in the area of student rights,
the authors have separated coverage of this area into two chapters. The
first new chapter (8, "Student Rights: Speech, Expression, and Privacy")
addresses First and Fourth Amendment rights. The second new chapter (9,
"Student Rights: Common Law, Constitutional Due Process, and Statutory
Protections") is devoted to students' rights related to substantive due
process, records, sexual harassment, and child abuse. Between these two
chapters, the authors have expanded coverage of the following topics:
zero-tolerance disciplinary regulations; search of students; the emerging
problem of Web site jurisdiction to schools; and discipline and corporal
punishment.
* New topics covered in Chapter 10, "Rights of Students with
Disabilities," include the requirements of the Individuals with
Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) and evolving judicial interpretations of
statutory terminology such as least-restrictive environment, stay-put,
related services, and parental reimbursement for placement of children in
private schools. A new section is provided that explains the differences
between the protections of children with disabilities under the IDEA and
Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.
* The authors have expanded their treatment of the three chapters
pertaining to tort liability. Chapter 11, "Tort Liability" covers
individuals, teachers, administrators, and students. Chapter 12,
"Defamation and Student Records," includes discussion of individual rights
to damages under the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA),
parental rights to information, posting of grades, and student-graded
classroom papers. The potential for damages under FERPA and Section 1983 as
set forth by the U.S. Supreme Court in Falvo is also explained. In Chapter
13, "School District Liability" is further developed, defining sovereign
and governmental immunity and official liability under Section 1983. The
rather dramatic changes in the U.S. Supreme Court's interpretation of the
Eleventh Amendment are given full discussion.
* In Chapter 15, "Teacher Rights and Freedoms," the authors further
update cases and explain the Connick rule in relation to Pickering and Mt.
Healthy and what constitutes matters of public concern. In this edition,
increased attention is devoted to workplace searches, drug testing of
teachers, and privacy rights of teachers regarding mental and physical
examinations.
* In Chapter 17, "Discrimination in Employment," the authors provide a
new summary of federal civil rights protections affecting teachers and then
discuss the latest court decisions regarding Title VII and the implications
of the two recent University of Michigan diversity and affirmative action
decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court with regard to public schools. New
precedents regarding sex discrimination in employment are fully treated, as
are recent developments of the law pertaining to sexual harassment. Also
included are federal court suggestions describing the elements of
anti-harassment regulations that can be used by local school districts.
* Chapter 19 is now devoted to "Desegregation of Public Schools" and
the recent precedents that primarily involve definitions of unitariness and
the options available to the courts in providing remedial and compensatory
remedies for past de jure segregation.
* "School Finance," Chapter 20, analyzes the rapidly emerging trends in
judicial interpretations of state constitutional provisions that guarantee
equity of funding for all children in public schools. A further update of
the court cases, state by state, gives a full perspective on the trends in
judicial involvement in school funding.
Features
* This is the most comprehensive text available for this course, with
coverage ranging across common law, statutes, and constitutional law.
* The authors understand the needs of practicing educators and
carefully select the problems and issues most pertinent to educators.
* Reviewers consistently praise the authors' excellent selection of
cases: from among the hundreds of jurisdictions in this country, those
cases that best exemplify the prevailing view of the courts in the various
areas of law are selected. Additional cases are available on the book's new
Book Companion Web Site.
* AMERICAN PUBLIC SCHOOL LAW continues to be at the forefront of this
ever-evolving field, as the authors incorporate the latest precedents that
continue to form the law of education.
* Many legal precedents embody abstractions that may be difficult for
non-lawyers to grasp; Alexander and Alexander provide students with
interpretive, concise, and simplified explanations of the more esoteric
concepts of law that affect the daily conduct of the schools.
* The books' accompanying Instructor's Manual with Test Bank provides
instructors with additional points of explanation and test questions for
each chapter.
Table of Contents
1. The Legal System.
2. Historical Perspective of Public Schools.
3. Role of the Federal Government.
4. Governance of Public Schools.
5. Church and State.
6. School Attendance.
7. The Instructional Program.
8. Student Rights: Speech, Expression, and Privacy.
9. Student Rights: Common Law, Constitutional Due Process, and Statutory
Protections.
10. Rights of Students with Disabilities.
11. Tort Liability.
12. Defamation and Student Records.
13. School District Liability.
14. Certification, Contracts, and Tenure.
15. Teacher Rights and Freedoms.
16. Due Process Rights of Teachers.
17. Discrimination in Employment.
18. Collective Bargaining.
19. Desegregation of Public Schools.
20. School Finance.
21. School Property and Buildings.
Appendixes.
Author Bio
Kern Alexanderwas the lead author of this text when it was first published
in 1969 under the title of Public School Law and has either authored or
co-authored all subsequent editions. Dr. Alexander is a widely published
author in the fields of education law and finance. He served as Professor
of Educational Administration at the University of Florida for nearly two
decades, and later as University Distinguished Professor at Virginia Tech.
He has been President of Western Kentucky University and Murray State
University, Kentucky, and is currently Professor of Educational
Administration at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. He
continues to take an active role throughout the United States in litigation
involving equity in school finance.
M. David Alexander is Professor and Chair of the Department of Educational
Leadership and Policy Studies, Virginia Tech. Dr. Alexander has authored or
co-authored several books and many chapters and articles in the area of
education law. He has taught public school law and college and university
law for nearly thirty years and is widely consulted on issues pertaining to
education law and arbitration.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POINTS SHOWN TO BE FACTUAL AND NOT OPINION:
(1) There are 6 editions (yes if you look around on line you can probably
find editions 1 & 2, I have already shown the existence of editions 3, 4,
5, 6.)
(2) That the newest edition, the 6th is a rewrite:
* For this comprehensive update, the authors have revised every chapter
with a view to the "3 C's": CONTEXT (historical, social and/or political
frame of reference); CONCEPT (the heart of the idea of law that a court or
legislature seeks to advance); and CONTENT (the subject matter,
ingredients, or components of the law that are applicable to public school
operation). They address the latest legislative trends and developments
throughout the text, such as the effects of "No Child Left Behind"
legislation.
**************************************************
Don't you really feel silly now? You should but probably won't. That would
require something you lack.

Your opinion is based on your own ***** ideology.
Knowledge is advanced by combinations of primary and secondary source
materials.
Courts can and often do use both primary, when available, and a wide range
of secondary source materials in arriving at their holdings.
Colleges and universities require study of both for various classes,
papers, etc.
The following contains a wealth of both.
PUBLIC EDUCATION IN AMERICA
From:

(

)
Subject: Re: Public education via the *Ordinances* (was Re: DUBYA DOES IT
AGAIN)
Newsgroups: alt.education, alt.politics.bush, alt.politics.democrats.d,
alt.politics.liberalism, alt.politics.usa.constitution,
alt.politics.usa.republican, misc.education
Date: 2004-10-14 06:52:36 PST
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl4089423541d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&selm...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V25E14889
[the above material is from, well if all of the cites were followed
possibly as many as 100 scholars, sources, etc]
*************************************************
You make it so easy to slam your credibility
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	12 Nov 2005 01:12:34 PM

jalison/buckeye wrote:...
malcolm kirkpatrick wrote:...
Subject: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls
Virginia Politics
Topic: School vouchers and the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel...
MK. Discussion deleted...

:|In his interview, Potts said he supports church-state separation in a
:|range of institutions, including the public schools.
:|"Our forefathers had it right," said Potts, with a nod to founding
:|patriarch James Madison. "He hoped that America would not be revisited
:|by the terrible intrusion of religion into politics and the schools."
:|In that vein, he opposes school vouchers and tuition tax credits to
:|underwrite private, sometimes sectarian, schools and is a foe of
:|faith-based funding.

MK. jalison makes Mr. Potts sound like a bigot and an historical
ignoramus,but jalison may have misrepresented him with selective
quotes.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best
state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable
one.-
-Thomas Paine, "Common Sense".
"Education, to be useful to the poor, should be on the spot; and the
best method, I believe, to accomplish this, is to enable the parents to
pay the expense themselves [through the tuition scholarship plan
described above]". http://www.schoolchoices.org/roo/t_paine.htm
Wall Street Journal, 2002-06-28.
"...as Justice Sandra Day O'Connor pointed out in her concurring
opinion, state money flows to religious institutions throughout our
society. Pell grants go to college students who use them to attend
Yeshiva University, and Medicaid payments go to Catholic hospitals. As
long as the individual decides where the money goes, the government is
not promoting one religion over another."

:|MK. The earliest compulsory attendance statute in the British colonies
:|of North America "That Olde Deceiver Satan" act, gives religious
:|indoctrination as its explicit rationale. Polities in the
:|pre-Revolutionary colonies and the early post-colonial US typically
:|supported education through per pupil funding of Church-operated
:|schools, until waves of Catholic immigrants provoked an allergic
:|reaction in the Protestant majority. The US "public" school system,
:|which restricts a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers' K-12
:|education subsidy to schools operated by State (government, generally)
:|employees, originated in anti-Catholic bigotry and survives on
:|assiduous lobbying by public-sector unions and other system insiders.

MK. Ad hominem deleted...

I would recommned to this bitter ex teacher the following book

MK. Discussion deleted...

...__American Public School Law__

MK. Discussion deleted...

...Here is the info on the 6h Edition
http://newtexts.com/newtexts/book.cfm?book_id=1899
Intended for graduate-level courses in Education Law or School Law offered
in departments of Educational Administration, Leadership and Foundations in
Schools and Colleges of Education and elective law school courses in
Education and School Law.

MK. Ahhh, the lucrative Ed textbook market.
MK. Discussion deleted...

* Chapter 2, "Historical Perspective of Public Schools," provides a
simplified explanation of both the historical and legal precedents that
formed America's public schools. Integral to this discussion is the
recognition of the fundamental importance of free and universal education
to a democracy. New material is added that helps explain the nature of
charter schools and their emergence as defining instruments of public
education.

MK. I will be interested to see if the authors confuse "education" with
"attendance at school" and "public education" with "attendance at
schools operated by State (government, generally) employees".
The US was a democracy --before-- the State dominated the school
business. Totalitarian States compel attendance at State-operated
indoctrination centers while free countries give parents options. In
Hong Kong, Belgium, Ireland, and the Netherlands, a majority of
students take the taxpayers' pre-college education subsidy to
independent or parochial schools.
"The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it
is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe
level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and
originality. School days, I believe, are the unhappiest in the whole
span of human existence. They are full of dull, unintelligible tasks,
new and unpleasant ordinances, and brutal violations of common sense
and common decency." --H.L. Mencken
"The terrifying thing about modern dictatorships is that they are
something entirely unprecedented. Their end cannot be foreseen. In the
past, every tyranny was sooner or later overthrown, or at least
resisted because of "human nature," which as a matter of course desired
liberty. But we cannot be at all certain that human nature is constant.
It may be just as possible to produce a breed of men who do not wish
for liberty as to produce a breed of hornless cows. The Inquisition
failed, but then the Inquisition had not the resources of the nodern
state. The radio, press censorship, standardized education and the
secret police have alterted everything. Mass suggestion is a science of
the last twenty years, and we do not know how successful it will be."
--George Orwell-- "Review of __'Russia under Soviet Rule__ by N. de
Basily" (__Essays__,George Orwell, Knopf, 2002).
"One has only to to think of the sinister possibilities of the radio,
State-controlled education, and so forth, to realize that 'the truth is
great and will prevail' is a prayer rather than an axiom." --George
Orwell [Review of __Power; A New Social Analysis__ by Bertrand
Russell].
MK. Discussion deleted...

* A revised Chapter 7, "The Instructional Program," addresses the
impact of the now more conservative federal courts, including increased
purging of curricular materials and books of 'objectionable' material
(e.g., Harry Potter and other works that have been 'quietly banned' in
several school districts with judicial acquiescence). In general, this
chapter investigates the tension between conservative values and the
necessity to expand knowledge. Finally, the chapter encompasses issues
pertaining to the high-stakes testing programs, raising further questions
regarding possible violation of due process and equal protection.

MK This blurb makes the book sound like a partisan brief. I'll reserve
judgment until I read the discussion and see what the authors
recommend.
MK. Discussion deleted...

* "School Finance," Chapter 20, analyzes the rapidly emerging trends in
judicial interpretations of state constitutional provisions that guarantee
equity of funding for all children in public schools. A further update of
the court cases, state by state, gives a full perspective on the trends in
judicial involvement in school funding.

MK. I'll be interested to see if the authors endorse the mendacious
__Savage Inequalities__ by Jonathan Kozol. Across the US, the
correlation (%minority, $/student) is --positive-- in every single
State with five or more districts over 20,000 enrollment (or 15,000
enrollment, depending on which year of the __Digest of Education
Statistics__ you use). Minority districts get --more-- money per
student. Dilapidated buildings and obsolete textbooks are not due to
insufficient taxpayer generosity; the bureaucrats steal poor kids' life
chances. Every year, I check the indexes of Ed textbooks in the UH
bookstore for references to Kozol. Every year, some supposed "scholar"
in the College of Education requires some book by another supposed
"scholar" who endorces the mendacious Kozol thesis.

Author Bio
Kern Alexanderwas the lead author of this text when it was first published
in 1969 under the title of Public School Law and has either authored or
co-authored all subsequent editions. Dr. Alexander is a widely published
author in the fields of education law and finance. He served as Professor
of Educational Administration at the University of Florida for nearly two
decades, and later as University Distinguished Professor at Virginia Tech.
He has been President of Western Kentucky University and Murray State >University, Kentucky, and is currently Professor of Educational
Administration at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. He
continues to take an active role throughout the United States in litigation
involving equity in school finance.
M. David Alexander is Professor and Chair of the Department of Educational
Leadership and Policy Studies, Virginia Tech. Dr. Alexander has authored or
co-authored several books and many chapters and articles in the area of
education law. He has taught public school law and college and university
law for nearly thirty years and is widely consulted on issues pertaining to
education law and arbitration.

(jalison/buckeye once wrote)...
"I could care less about the school system of this nation, if you want
to know the honest truth.
I haven't studied it, I have no interest in it, but I do have a very
real concern for the constitutional principle of separation of church
and state. Vouchers to private religious schools violate that
principle."
MK. Laurence Tribe (Harvard Law) disagrees: From an editorial page
column in the Washington Post: ...[As the Heritage Foundation quotes
Harvard Law's Laurence Tribe on this subject: "Any objection that
anyone would have to a voucher program would have to be policy-based
and could not rest on legal doctrine. One would have to be awfully
clumsy to write voucher legislation that could not pass constitutional
scrutiny. . . . Aid to parents . . . would be constitutional."]...

From __American School Board Journal__, Apr. 1999. Benjamin

Dowling-Sandor "...an authority on school law and an appellate defender
of North Carolina in Durham" (according to the introductory bio.):
"...Two US Supreme Court decisions support the Constitutionality of
Milwaukee's voucher program. In Mueller v. Allen (1983), the Supreme
Court upheld a Minnesota statute that gave tax deductions to parents
for certain
educational expenses--including expenses at private religious schools.
In Witters v. Washington Department of Services for the Blind (1986),
the high court ruled that the First Amendment Establishment Clause does
not prohibit a state from providing a vocational tuition grant to a
blind person who planned to use the money to attend a Christian college
for training to become a pastor, missionary, or youth director."
"There's no significant constitutional difference between the
programs upheld in Mueller and Witters and the Milwaukee voucher
program. In all three cases, individuals are selected to receive
government subsidies for education through neutral, secular criteria.In
all three cases, government aid goes directly to individual parents or
students, who then make their own choices about whether to use the
aid for secular or religious education..."
MK. Dowling-Sandor writes that, while he opposes school vouchers
"...those two decisions are the law, and they support the Milwaukee
voucher program". He also observed that the dissenting Wisconsin
Supreme Court judges found their objections in Wisconsin law, and
agreed with the majority that vouchers were not -US-unconstitutional.
MK. Here's Clarence Thomas, for the majority, in the case Mitchell
versus Helms:
USSC Mitchell v. Helm (2000-06-28).
"We have viewed as significant whether the "private choices of
individual parents," as opposed to the "unmediated" will of government
determine what schools ultimately benefit from the governmental aid,
and how much."
"For if numerous private choices, rather than the single choice of
a government, determine the distribution of aid pursuant to neutral
eligibility criteria, then a government cannot, or at least cannot
easily, grant special favors that might lead to a religious
establishment."
"Private choice also helps guarantee neutrality by mitigating the
preference for pre-existing recipients that is arguably inherent in any
governmental aid program, see, e.g. Gilder, _The Revitalization
of Everything: The Law of the Microcosm_, Harv. Bus. Rev. 49 (Mar./Apr.
1988), and that could lead to a program inadvertently favoring one
religion or favoring religious private schools in general over
nonreligious ones....."
http://www.rru.com/~meo/hs.minski.html (One page. Marvin Minsky comment
on school. Please read this.)
http://www.eiaonline.com/communique.htm
http://www.educationevolving.org/pdf/Adolescence.pdf
http://www.schoolchoices.org (Massive site. Useful links).
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/egwest/pdfs/economics%20of%20compulsion.pdf
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	15 Nov 2005 06:09:03 AM

wrote:

:|jalison/buckeye wrote:...
:|malcolm kirkpatrick wrote:...
:|Subject: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls
:|Virginia Politics
:|Topic: School vouchers and the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel...
:|
:|MK. Discussion deleted...
:|
:|>>>:|In his interview, Potts said he supports church-state separation in a
:|>>>:|range of institutions, including the public schools.
:|
:|>>>:|"Our forefathers had it right," said Potts, with a nod to founding
:|>>>:|patriarch James Madison. "He hoped that America would not be revisited
:|>>>:|by the terrible intrusion of religion into politics and the schools."
:|
:|>>>:|In that vein, he opposes school vouchers and tuition tax credits to
:|>>>:|underwrite private, sometimes sectarian, schools and is a foe of
:|>>>:|faith-based funding.
:|
:|MK. jalison makes Mr. Potts sound like a bigot and an historical
:|ignoramus,but jalison may have misrepresented him with selective
:|quotes.

Nope dude, try again.
You want to play history games again dude I will bury you in as I always
do,
But go ahead, I love helping you make a fool of yourself

That's the best you can do? Very lame,. trying to poison the well only
makes the book more valuable. You called attention to it by make any
comment about it. That shows you recognized it hurts you.
But your comment didn't hurt the book at all since you never address any
point made in the book

:|
:|MK. Discussion deleted...

MK deleted.

wrote:

Look who is back with his usual propaganda.
The biased MK peddling his usual lies and misreprestations
I would recommned to this bitter ex teacher the following book

(Info Junkie) wrote:

:|On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:52:31 -0400,

wrote:
:|
:|>For

(Info Junkie) wrote:
:|>
:|>The problem you are going to have here is going to be a major problem for
:|>you.
:|
:|So you claim Mr jalison (alias buckeye)
:|

Not only claim but demonstrate.
Your agreement is not required to make it so.

(

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	16 Nov 2005 03:00:46 PM

jalison/buckeye wrote:...

malcolmkirkpatrick wrote:...

jalison/buckeye wrote:...
malcolm kirkpatrick wrote:...

Subject: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls
Topic: School vouchers and the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel...
MK. Discussion deleted...

In his interview, Potts said he supports church-state separation in a
range of institutions, including the public schools.
"Our forefathers had it right," said Potts, with a nod to founding
patriarch James Madison. "He hoped that America would not be revisited
by the terrible intrusion of religion into politics and the schools."
In that vein, he opposes school vouchers and tuition tax credits to
underwrite private, sometimes sectarian, schools and is a foe of
faith-based funding.

MK. jalison makes Mr. Potts sound like a bigot and an historical
ignoramus,but jalison may have misrepresented him with selective
quotes.

Nope dude, try again.

MK. OK... jalison --did not-- misrepresent Mr. Potts with selective
quotation; the man is a bigot and an historical ignoramus. Happy now?

You want to play history games again dude I will bury you in as I always do,..

MK. In verbiage.

...But go ahead, I love helping you make a fool of yourself

MK. Discussion deleted...

I would recommned to this bitter ex teacher the following book...

MK. Discussion deleted...

...__American Public School Law__

MK. Discussion deleted...

Here is the info on the 6h Edition
http://newtexts.com/newtexts/book.cfm?book_id=1899
Intended for graduate-level courses in Education Law or School Law offered
in departments of Educational Administration, Leadership and Foundations in
Schools and Colleges of Education and elective law school courses in
Education and School Law.

MK. Ahhh, the lucrative Ed textbook market.

That's the best you can do? Very lame,. trying to poison the well only
makes the book more valuable. You called attention to it by make any
comment about it. That shows you recognized it hurts you.

MK. a) It's the best I could do on short notice, since I had not seen
the book. b) My words will not affect the price of the book. Beyond
that, its "value" is its analysis of school-related law, which remains
unchanged by anything I say. c.1) jalison "called attention to it".
c.2) "(B)y make any comment..." English, please? d) I could have
"recognized" no harm in the book, as I had not then seen it. As I wrote
(which jalison/buckeye deleted) I reserved judgment, pending
consideration of the authors' treatmet of several issues.

But your comment didn't hurt the book at all since you never address any point made in the book

MK. I had not seen it. I did address points made in the promotional
blurb which jalison/buckeye posted.
MK. Discussion deleted...

MK deleted.

MK. jalison deletes the points I addressed.

MK. The earliest compulsory attendance statute in the British colonies
of North America "That Olde Deceiver Satan" act, gives religious
indoctrination as its explicit rationale. Polities in the
pre-Revolutionary colonies and the early post-colonial US typically
supported education through per pupil funding of Church-operated
schools, until waves of Catholic immigrants provoked an allergic
reaction in the Protestant majority. The US "public" school system,
which restricts a parent's options for the use of the taxpayers' K-12
education subsidy to schools operated by State (government, generally)
employees, originated in anti-Catholic bigotry and survives on
assiduous lobbying by public-sector unions and other system insiders.

Look who is back with his usual propaganda. The biased MK peddling his usual lies and misreprestations

MK. Which assertion as to fact is false, jalison?
MK. Discussion deleted (jalison reproduces an exchange with someone
else)...
Table of Contents
1. The Legal System.
2. Historical Perspective of Public Schools.
3. Role of the Federal Government.
4. Governance of Public Schools.
5. Church and State.
6. School Attendance.
7. The Instructional Program.
8. Student Rights: Speech, Expression, and Privacy.
9. Student Rights: Common Law, Constitutional Due Process, and
Statutory
Protections.
10. Rights of Students with Disabilities.
11. Tort Liability.
12. Defamation and Student Records.
13. School District Liability.
14. Certification, Contracts, and Tenure.
15. Teacher Rights and Freedoms.
16. Due Process Rights of Teachers.
17. Discrimination in Employment.
18. Collective Bargaining.
19. Desegregation of Public Schools.
20. School Finance.
21. School Property and Buildings.
Appendixes.
MK. The UH Hamilton Library has the second edition, which does not
contain a discussion of voucher-related litigation after Mueller v.
Allen, and so misses the Mitchell v. Helms and Zelman cases. I spent
about 20 minutes with this book, and found it interesting. The chapter
2 discussion of the history of the current policy, which restricts a
parent's options for the use of the taxpayers' pre-college education
subsidy to schools operated by the NEA/AFT/AFSCME cartel, provides a
short overview, and does not describe in detail either the varied
education policies of the separatel pre-revolutionary colonies or the
historical context of the post-revolutionary transition to the current
system.
It may be unfair to presume a bias in a discussion of the evolution
of policy. The authors quote Thomas Jefferson, Horace Mann, and
Benjamin Rush, accurately, I am sure. Rush, Mann, and Jefferson --did--
write those words, I suppose. The policy --did-- evolve as the authors
say (sort of). A description of current policy and its evolution does
not imply an endorsement of that policy. When the authors write that
"the public" "recognized" the importance of education, and so approved
tax support of schools, and State (government, generally) operation of
schools, however, I infer an endorsement, since a more neutral way to
describe the politics of the State intrusion into the education
business would be to say that "the public" "--believed--" that a State
role provided benefits to society. This raises several questions: 1)
How do we know what "the public" of 1642, 1790, or 1844 "believed" (or
"recognized")? 2) Might "the public" have been mistaken then? 3) Might
the "public's" representatives had personal interests in representing a
State intrusion into the education business as in society's interest?
4) Might "the public" be mistaken today? 5) Might "the public's"
representatives (e.g., Professors of School Law at tax-supported
universities) today have a personal stake in maintaining the current
system?
The Independent Review Volume 8 Number 3
Winter 2004 Government: Unnecessary but Inevitable
By Randall G. Holcombe
Eduardo Zambrano
Formal Models of Authority: Introduction and Political Economy
Applications
Rationality and Society, May 1999; 11: 115 - 138.
http://www.rru.com/~meo/hs.minski.html (One page. Marvin Minsky comment
on school. Please read this.)
http://www.educationevolving.org/pdf/Adolescence.pdf
http://www.worldbank.org/research/journals/wbro/obsfeb97/educate.htm
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/egwest/pdfs/economics%20of%20compulsion.pdf
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/thomassowell/2005/10/27/173033.html
(racial segregation in public transport: markets v. State operation
"Furthermore, according to a report for UNESCO, cited in Esteve (2000),
the increasing level of pupil-teacher and pupil-pupil violence in
classrooms is directly connected with compulsory schooling. The report
argues that institutional violence against pupils who are obliged to
attend daily at an educational centre until 16 or 18 years of age
increases the frustration of these students to a level where they
externalise it." --Clive Harber, "Schooling as Violence",p. 9,
__Educatioinal Review__V. 54, #1.
"...It is almost certainly more damaging for children to be in school
than to out of it. Children whose days are spent herding animals rather
than sitting in a clasroom at least develop skills of problem solving
and independence while the supposedly luckier ones in school are
stunted in their mental, physical, and emotional development by being
rendered pasive, and by having to spend hours each day in a crowded
classroom under the control of an adult who punishes them for any
normal level of activity such as moving or speaking. (DfID, 2000, pp
12, 13)" Quoted in Clive Harber, "Schooling as Violence",p. 10,
__Educatioinal Review__V. 54, #1.
MK. As I guessed they might, the authors, in asserting that "education"
was a privelege reserved for the elite, confuse "attendance at school"
with "education".
"Why do I tell you this little boy's story of medusas, rays, and sea
monsters, nearly sixty years after the fact? Because it illustrates, I
believe, how a naturalist is created. A child comes to the edge of deep
water with a mind prepared for wonder....Hands-on experience at the
critical time, not systematic knowledge, is what counts in the making
of a naturalist. Better to be an untutored savage for a while, not to
know the names or anatomical detail. Better to spend long stretches of
time just searching and dreaming." (E.O. Wilson, __Naturalist__ p.
11-12).
"Adults forget the depths of languor into which the adolescent mind
descends with ease. They are prone to undervalue the mental growth that
occurs during daydreaming and aimless wandering. When I focused on the
ponds and stream lying before me, I abandoned all sense of time."
(Wilson, op cit. p. 86-87).
MK. The authors observe that unrestricted homeschooling effectively
voids compulsory attendance statutes. They discuss the potential
downside of homeschooling, in the context of court rulings against
homeschoolers and in the given justifications for compulsory attendance
statutes. They provide no discussion of the benefits of homeschooling.
They do not discuss variations in the legal treatment of homeschoolers
from State to State.
[Roland Meighan, "Home-based Education Effectiveness Research and Some
of its Implications",Educational Review, Vol. 47, No.3, 1995.]
"The issue of social skills. One edition of Home School Researcher,
Volume 8, Number 3, contains two research reports on the issue of
social skills. The first finding of the study by Larry Shyers (1992)
was that home-schooled students received significantly lower problem
behavior scores than schooled children. His next finding was that
home-schooled children are socially well adjusted, but schooled
children are not so well adjusted. Shyers concludes that we are asking
the wrong question when we ask about the social adjustment of
home-schooled children. The real question is why is the social;
adjustment of schooled children of such poor quality?"
"The second study, by Thomas Smedley (1992), used different test
instruments but comes to the same conclusion, that home-educated
children are more mature and better socialized than those attending
school." ...p. 277
"12. So-called 'school phobia' is actually more likely to be a sign
of mental health, whereas school dependancy is a largely unrecognized
mental health problem"....p.281
MK. In their discussion of school finance, the authors avoid the
pitfall of a reference to the mendacious __Savage Inequalities__ by
Jonathan Kozol.
Take care. Homeschool if you can.
http://www.schoolchoices.org (Massive site. Useful links).
http://www.hslda.org (Very useful links, for prospective homeschoolers)
http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/index.html
http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/news/2005-08-23.html (choice poll)
http://www.educationpolicy.org
http://www.eiaonline.com/communique.htm
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	18 Nov 2005 02:03:11 PM

wrote:

MK pretty much deleted
Read and weep, delete and pretend it was never posted dippy:
The Northwest Ordinance
For further information on this see:
CHAPTER THREE. THE ROLE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
http://64.78.63.75/samples/05EDU040...hoolLaw6ch3.pdf
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N16433179
American Public School Law, Sixth Edition, Kern Alexander, University of
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, M. David Alexander, Virginia Tech University
1 - 8 of about 11 for

(Info Junkie)
buckeye-...@nospam.net northwest ordinance. (0.18 seconds)
11 threads
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bondrock%40ifx.net+%28Info+Junki...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z14532C4A
Results 1 - 10 of 14 for bondrock@ ifx . net ( Info Junkie )
buckeye - elo @nospam. net northwest ordinance (0.46 seconds)
14 threads Approx. 2044 messages this those 14 threads
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=bondrock%40ifx.net%20(Info%20J...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E26521C4A
STATEHOOD AND UNION, A History of the Northwest Ordnance, Peter S. Onuf,
Indiana University Press, (1987)
You should recognize both the title and author I would imagine.
Liberty's Legacy, Our Celebration of the Northwest Ordinance and the United
States Constitution, The Ohio Historical Society,
Peter S. Onuf is/was (didn't check to see if he is still living or not) is
recognized by his peers as one of , if not the leading authority on the
Northwest Ordinance.
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Northwest Ordinance set the state for the public school system as well
as the public state college university system in this country.
***************************************************************************************
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/bb7d7e833de2bbc5?hl=en&
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2692192C
Short General History of The Federal Government and Education
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/educ.htm
NORTHWEST ORDINANCE
#1
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/1a7d9a549a15de68?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F6675392C
#2
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/864ee86582397288?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1772192C
#3
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/828ae993445039bc?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?R2973292C
#4
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/2598f99d1db00134?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2B73592C
#5
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/f9038cc6abfa86ca?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?E3C75192C
#6
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/46b7f039aed09524?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?R5D73292C
#7
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/4f617571b83b1402?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q3F72392C
#8
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/7a6e07045ef9fc0?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?M2082392C
#9
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/461ba4216ee378c5?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?B3182192C
*****************************************
R. FREEMAN BUTTS
#1
Subject: religion/education/taxes/early America
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:06:45 -0500
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/62b113ee12b5af72?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?W1383192C
#2
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/cfa8229cb26c43?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2686592C
#3
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/be4aebeb0a13a6c0?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?T1883292C
#4
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/5bcf432faebd959b?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I6984292C
#5
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/a308288d7a20123e?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I2A81192C
#6
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/bdd27a33ba0b35c9?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?G3D81292C
#7
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/78eacae8fd61a624?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I2E85292C
#8
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/50731bc3e85dfb55?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L2F84292C
#9
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/c4dec7645e609613?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?H2194592C
#10
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/204facf9328c5bce?output=gplain
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?J5391292C
#11
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.society.conservatism/msg/80bf274305ffc8ad?output=g
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?S1595292C
*****************************************
Historical Data Against "Vouchers"
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/vouchist.htm
Vouchers: Our Position
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/vouposit.htm
Study Guide for Vouchers
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/studygd4.htm
*****************************************
Just a few of those favoring common schools or public education:
Thomas Jefferson
79. A Bill for the More General Diffusion of Knowledge (1778)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefflaw1.htm
80. A Bill for Amending the Constitution of the College of William and
Mary, and Substituting More Certain Revenues for Its Support (1779)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefflaw2.htm
81. A Bill for Establishing a Public Library (1779)
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefflaw3.htm
Thomas Jefferson supported Bible reading in school; this is proven by his
service as the first president of the Washington, D.C. public schools,
which used the Bible and Watt's Hymns as textbooks for reading.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg6.htm
Another Jefferson Quote Debunked
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/jefschl1.htm
Jefferson, Religion, and the Public Schools.
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/jeffschl.htm
Geo Washington
James Madison
1786
BENJAMIN RUSH: On the Need for General Education
BENJAMIN RUSH: A Plan for the Establishment of Public Schools
1787
BENJAMIN RUSH: A Plan for the Establishment of Public Schools
BENJAMIN RUSH: A Plan for the Establishment of Public Schools
1788
Benjamin Rush: PLAN OF A FEDERAL UNIVERSITY
1790
Noah Webster: THE EDUCATION OF THE YOUTH OF AMERICA
1796
The Objects Proper to Liberal Education by Samuel Harrison Smith.
George Washington: A National University. December 7, 1796
1801
Fisher Ames: School Books
********************************************************************************
The law of the school includes all those areas of jurisprudence that bear
on the operation of public elementary and secondary schools in the United
States.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=6fjgk0dd5uvc2...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y29A14D59
RELIGIOUS ASSESSMENTS
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=qkjgk01bg22ga...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y2AA31D59
INDIRECT FEDERAL ROLE
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=gljgk0db1lsp4...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X6CA22D59
THE LAND ORDINANCES
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=7mjgk054u1fa5...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S1EA22D59
THE PUBLIC SCHOOL AND RELIGION
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3kjgk0tvsf287...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U50B12D59
SOURCE FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE : American Public School Law, Third Edition,
Kern Alexander. M. David Alexander. West Publishing Company, (1992) p. 1
******************************************************************
Curly Surmudgeon <c...@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote:

:|. . . You can't show that Public Education is authorized by the
:|Constitution.

Actually, I have already done that and you have run away from the
information I provided. But I can provide it again so you can run away from
it again.
Curly Surmudgeon <c...@curlysurmudgeon.com> wrote:

:|Not a one of those links are to the Constitution, they are opinions.

Actually they are information. They are history, they are law they are
facts. They are answers to your question which you really don't want
answered.
You can bury your head in the sand forever, it doesn't change what is. It
just shows that bull ***** is more important to you that fact, reality etc
is.
You answer is contained in the URLs above and in the information below
which of course you will ignore. You don't really want an answer.
Here is the short answer
(1) LAND ORDINANCES OF 1785 AND NORTHWEST ORDINANCE OF 1787
SEE:
The law of the school includes all those areas of jurisprudence that bear
on the operation of public elementary and secondary schools in the United
States.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=6fjgk0dd5uvc2...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y29A14D59
RELIGIOUS ASSESSMENTS
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=qkjgk01bg22ga...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y2AA31D59
INDIRECT FEDERAL ROLE
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=gljgk0db1lsp4...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X6CA22D59
THE LAND ORDINANCES
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=7mjgk054u1fa5...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?S1EA22D59
THE PUBLIC SCHOOL AND RELIGION
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3kjgk0tvsf287...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?U50B12D59
SOURCE FOR ALL OF THE ABOVE : American Public School Law, Third Edition,
Kern Alexander. M. David Alexander. West Publishing Company, (1992) p. 1
(2) ALONG WITH:
Structural Provisions in the U.S. Constitution Most Pertinent to Federalism
and Education
Article I, � 1. Powers of Congress
"All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the
United States. . . ."
Article I, � 8. Commerce Clause
The Congress shall have power "To regulate Commerce with foreign nations,
and among the several States..,"
Article I, � 8. General Welfare Clause
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts
and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence
and general welfare...."
Article I, � 10. Contracts Clause
"No State shall ... pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of
Contracts."
Article II, � 1. Powers of the President
"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of
America...."
Article III, � 1. Powers of the Judiciary
"Me judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme
Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to
time ordain and establish."
Article VI, Clause 2. Supremacy Clause
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States ... shall be the
supreme Law of the Land...."
Tenth Amendment. Residual Powers
'The powers not delegated to the United States ... nor prohibited by it to
the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Eleventh Amendment. State Sovereignty
"The Judicial power of the United States shall not ... extend to any suit
in law or equity ... against one of the United States. . . ."
AMERICAN PUBLIC SCHOOL LAW. SIXTH EDITION, KERN ALEXANDER,
M.DAVID ALEXANDER, WEST PUBLISHING, (2004) p. 69
===================================================
Results 1 - 10 of 26 for public school law junkie buckeye -elo
(0.25 seconds)
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=public+school+law+junkie++buckeye-elo&hl=en
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z5892592C
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vouchers
Results 1 - 9 of 9 for Davis , green , helms buckeye -elo barclay
(0.30 seconds)
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Davis,+green,+helms+++buckeye-elo+barclay&start=0&hl=en&filter=0
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I2992192C
################################################################
Results 1 - 5 of 5 for vouchers Davis , green , helms buckeye
-elo barclay (0.30 seconds)
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=vouchers++Davis%2C+green%2C+helms+++buckeye-elo+barclay&qt_s=Search
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?D2C92292C
###################################################################
Results 1 - 10 of 26 for vouchers buckeye -elo barclay (0.73 seconds)
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=vouchers++++buckeye-elo+barclay&qt_s=Search
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1F92392C
*****************************************************************************************
Jefferson and Madison on Education
Your shorter link is: http://makeashorterlink.com/?E22A2592C
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.constitution/msg/6c13c76e8624fea4?hl=en&
*****************************************************************
Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS � Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Virginia Politics: From center, Potts aims to buck polls Virginia Politics	15 Nov 2005 07:26:13 AM

wrote:

Read and weep, delete and pretend it was never posted dippy:
The Northwest Ordinance
For further information on this see:
CHAPTER THREE. THE ROLE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
http://64.78.63.75/samples/05EDU040...hoolLaw6ch3.pdf
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N16433179
American Public School Law, Sixth Edition, Kern Alexander, University of
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, M. David Alexander, Virginia Tech University
1 - 8 of about 11 for