Sociology > Education > Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About Separation
| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
14 Jul 2005 08:20:27 AM |
| Object: |
Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About Separation |
Some recents posts found on
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
David Barton
"Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About
Separation Of Church And State?"
As a "Christian" nation activist, David Barton, Vice Chair of the
Republican Party, was once considered so extreme he was not taken
seriously. Now he is listed by Time magazine as one of the nation's 25
most influential evangelicals.
He was also featured on the front page of The New York Times Week in
Review, February 27, 2005: Putting God Back Into American History.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_barton_times_feb27_05.htm
February 27, 2005
Putting God Back Into American History
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
[excerpt]
WASHINGTON ? On a recent evening, David Barton, a leading conservative
Christian advocate for emphasizing religion in American history, stood
barefoot on a bench in the rotunda of the United States Capitol
Building with a congressman by his side and about a hundred students
from Oral Roberts University at his feet.
"Isn't it interesting that we have all been trained to recognize the
two least religious founding fathers?" Mr. Barton asked, pointing to
Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin in a painting on the wall. "And
compared to today's secularists these two guys look like a couple of
Bible-thumping evangelicals!" Even Jefferson signed letters "in the
year of Our Lord Christ," Mr. Barton told the group. "What would
happen if George Bush did that? They'd rip his head off!"
Mr. Barton, who is also the vice chairman of the Texas Republican
Party, is a point man in a growing movement to call attention to the
open Christianity of America's great leaders and founding documents.
The goal is to reverse what many evangelical Christians claim is a
secularist revision of history, to defend displays of religion in
public life and to make room for God in public school classrooms.
{end of Excrpt}
*************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
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| User: "The Bandit" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About Separation |
15 Jul 2005 02:27:01 AM |
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wrote:
Some recents posts found on
HRSepCnS =B7 Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
David Barton
"Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About
Separation Of Church And State?"
He isn't saying anything different then any of the founders did. Did
Jefferson say awful things about seperation of church and state as
well?
"[Since] no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or
freedom of the press [was] delegated to the United States by the
Constitution nor prohibited by it to the States, all lawful powers
respecting the same did of right remain and were reserved to the States
or the people... Thus was manifested their determination to retain to
themselves the right of judging how far the licentiousness of speech
and of the press may be abridged without lessening their useful
freedom, and how far those abuses which cannot be separated from their
use should be tolerated rather than the use be destroyed."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.
"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is
placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general
government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the
religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the
Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or
Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies."
--Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805.
"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the
Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their
doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the
provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or
free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the
states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no
power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in
religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It
must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human
authority."
--Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808.
"I do not believe it is for the interest of religion to invite the
civil magistrate to direct its exercises, its discipline, or its
doctrines; nor of the religious societies, that the General Government
should be invested with the power of effecting any uniformity of time
or matter among them. Fasting and prayer are religious exercises. The
enjoining them, an act of discipline. Every religious society has a
right to determine for itself the times for these exercises and the
objects proper for them according to their own particular tenets; and
this right can never be safer than in their own hands where the
Constitution has deposited it... Everyone must act according to the
dictates of his own reason, and mine tells me that civil powers alone
have been given to the President of the United States, and no authority
to direct the religious exercises of his constituents." --Thomas
Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About Separation |
16 Jul 2005 06:25:46 AM |
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"The Bandit" <no-reply@idexer.com> wrote:
:|
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
:|> Some recents posts found on
:|> HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
:|> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
:|>
:|>
:|>
:|> David Barton
:|>
:|> "Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About
:|> Separation Of Church And State?"
:|
:|He isn't saying anything different then any of the founders did. Did
:|Jefferson say awful things about seperation of church and state as
:|well?
:|
Nice attempt at some smoke and straw
Jefferson supported church state separation Jefferson was a strict
separationist
Barton is a fraud, a liar and a propagandist
You really should do your homework before you post
Let me introduce you to David Barton:
The Barton Chronicles
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/bartchro.htm
***************************************************************
"A Christian Looks At the Religious Right"
Responding to David Barton
http://www.livingston.net/wilkyjr/link28.htm
*********************************************************
David Barton
"Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About
Separation Of Church And State?"
As a "Christian" nation activist, David Barton, Vice Chair of the
Republican Party, was once considered so extreme he was not taken
seriously. Now he is listed by Time magazine as one of the nation's 25
most influential evangelicals.
He was also featured on the front page of The New York Times Week in
Review, February 27, 2005: Putting God Back Into American History.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/separation_barton_times_feb27_05.htm
February 27, 2005
Putting God Back Into American History
By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
********************************************************************************
Now run along
*************************************************************
You are invited to check out the following:
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and the discussion group for the above site listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
For people in Hampton Roads you are also invited to join
NORFOLK/VA. B. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE MEETUP GROUP
http://churchandstate.meetup.com/47/
Virginia Chapter Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://au-va.org/
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
"Dedicated to combatting 'history by sound bite'."
Now including a re-publication of Tom Peters
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE HOME PAGE
and
Audio links to Supreme Court oral arguments and
Speech by civil rights/constitutional lawyer and others.
This site is a member of the following web rings:
Freethought Ring--&--Freethought, Religion & Beliefs Ring
The First Amendment Ring--&--The Church-State Ring
American History WebRing--&--The History Ring
Let Freedom Ring--&--Religious Freedom Ring
Law Issues Ring--&--Legal Research Ring
****************************************************************
.
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: George H C Rove Bush43 and the Rest of the Lunatic Fringe Goes Mainstream [was: Who Is David Barton , And Why Is He Saying Such Awful Things About Separation] |
15 Jul 2005 01:34:32 AM |
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On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:20, wrote:
Mr. Barton, who is also the vice chairman of the Texas Republican
Party, is a point man in a growing movement to call attention to the
open Christianity of America's great leaders and founding documents.
The goal is to reverse what many evangelical Christians claim is a
secularist revision of history, to defend displays of religion in
public life and to make room for God in public school classrooms.
It appears that the same members of the group once called "The Lunatic
Fringe" and now known as Karl Rove who controls George W C Bush43's strange
and erratic behavior and their Republican Party faction who have long desired
to put police in every woman's doctor's office, are now prepared to put
police in every classroom to enforce their segment of their brand of religion
upon young children.
I fear that these dunderheads - who are incapable of holding one thought in
their pointy, little heads - do not know the difference between state police
and a police state.
Do what they say or they'll kill your children.
[Or mebbe just put you in prison.]
The Republican Party will take upon its shoulders instructing
the teachers on what religious "facts" they will believe
and teach.
Bush43 Youth will be monitoring the teachers for suspicious behavior
such as a hint that the Virgin Birth may have been a bad translation
or that the Holy Trinity can't be understood rationally.
Every Government Jesus School (GeeJeeSchoolie) will have a Jungle Gym (the
name of which will be changed to "Jungle Jim" as the new school teachers -
all members of a federally-acceptable church and state will - in all
liklihood - not know what "gym" means nor how to spell it) convenient to the
school. Ropes will be supplied and the sub-machine gun will be supplied to
the School "Pastor-in-Charge" for use in the case of any deviance from
mandated teachings.
The firearms will be supplied from those confiscated from the below named
groups.
Atheists, Fags (and their female partners), former military who took an oath
to the Constitution of the Old Republic without having their fingers crossed,
AmerInds who are unacceptable to the new empire [after making certain that
AmerInds can be imprisoned unjustly in the experiment with Leonard Peltier
which proved that none of the Christian rulers give a damn about justice to
AmerInds] and, of course, Jews (no reason needed) will be rounded up and
assigned to the camps that are still available from the time the ruling
overlords got the Japs and their property.
Just remember:
If it's done in the name of God, anything whatsoever is permitted.
Previous tyrants didn't lose because they were immoral; they lost because
they were outgunned.
Mind control over your child [and over you] is the goal
of the religious lunatic fringe.
And, if you think, that the religious lunatic fringe would stop at executing
you, your spouse and your children, I call your attention to the Christian
terrorism of the Ku Klux Klan and the holy members of the white Citizens
Council and the John Birch Sociaety.
Gray Shockley
--------------------------
Calvin: These are interesting times.
We don't trust the government,
We don't trust the legal system,
We don't trust the media,
and we don't trust each other!
We've undermined all authority,
and with it, the basis for replacing it!
Hobbes: "Interesting" is a mild way of putting it.
Calvin: It's like a six-year-old's dream come true.
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