| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Dominic Torrazzi" |
| Date: |
13 Apr 2006 05:43:24 PM |
| Object: |
You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10 to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah 13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take 2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons, into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line. Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept or
reject.
.
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
20 Apr 2006 12:45:30 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145531030.345032.301260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
This is quite a conspiracy you envision. What did these people do,
send researchers to Jerusalem so that they would get some things right?
Hey, ask Rob when the first book was published.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:46:41 AM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145280425.139111.55400@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145239118.171062.280100@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or
census
and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for
it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to
fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy"
was
not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any
event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish
scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character
made
up to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the
betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite
convenient,
don't you think?
Well, you might ask Judas' parents after the resurrection how
convenient it was. It does not seem convenient at all to me to get
your ideas back into control of events in 30 A.D.
I think that the parents of Judas Iscariot had an entirely different
reason for the name they gave their son.
Assuming he existed. For which there is, AFAIK, absolutely no historical
evidence.
Well, I do not know what you would consider historical evidence.
According to you most people who lived on the earth did not exist
because there was nothing written about them. As far as Jesus Christ
was concerned, more has been written about him than any other person.
Uhh, not likely. No first hand accounys and only a few second hand accounts
written a century later that conflict. Anything written after that using
these sources is quite lacking in historical evidence.
How do you explain the existence of the Bible?
Robert B. Winn
Lots of goat herders, lots of stories. Politics, kings, editing,
misinterpretations, church tomfoolery. All can account for the bible.
.
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| User: "Larry the J." |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 11:02:37 AM |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "Dominic Torrazzi"
<DTorrazzi@home4.com> said:
Lots of goat herders, lots of stories. Politics, kings, editing,
misinterpretations, church tomfoolery. All can account for the bible.
It's incredibly sad that 2000 years later, supposedly "educated" people
can still be fooled by it...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
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| User: "Larry the J." |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:19:56 AM |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
As far as Jesus Christ
was concerned, more has been written about him than any other person.
Some day, 2,000 years from now, a group of morons will find a collection
of books and videos of Star Wars. Luke Skywalker will be their "Geezis."
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
.
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| User: "Bill Shatzer" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 01:48:11 PM |
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rbwinn wrote:
-snip-
Well, I do not know what you would consider historical evidence.
According to you most people who lived on the earth did not exist
because there was nothing written about them. As far as Jesus Christ
was concerned, more has been written about him than any other person.
How do you explain the existence of the Bible?
'Bout the same way I explain the existence of the Odyessy or the Ramayana.
Indeed, there's quite a bit written 'bout Sherlock Holmes.
Peace and justice,
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:43:25 AM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145239118.171062.280100@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census
and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was
not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish
scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character made up
to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite
convenient,
don't you think?
Well, you might ask Judas' parents after the resurrection how
convenient it was.
No, one need only read the bible with common sense. Judas never existed. He
was a character born of necessity to appease the Roman occupiers.
It does not seem convenient at all to me to get
your ideas back into control of events in 30 A.D.
I think that the parents of Judas Iscariot had an entirely different
reason for the name they gave their son.
What you think is pretty much baseless fantasy.
.
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 03:36:59 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145239118.171062.280100@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Well, you might ask Judas' parents after the resurrection how
convenient it was.
I might ask Santa for a toy train or the Easter Bunny for candy but that's
mind-controlling Christian ***** too.
=c
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 01:51:34 AM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character made up to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite convenient,
don't you think?
Well, your statement does not make much sense. If you believe Christ's
death did not take place, what difference would it make to you what
Judas Iscariot's name was. According to you he did not exist.
Wouldn't the logical thing for you to do be to have such an impressive
life as an atheist that you would not even need to acknowledge any of
the things you call fiction? So why do you spend all of your time
trying to prove Jesus Christ did not exist?
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 01:21:01 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145083894.239770.56010@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census
and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was
not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish
scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character made up
to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite
convenient,
don't you think?
Well, your statement does not make much sense. If you believe Christ's
death did not take place, what difference would it make to you what
Judas Iscariot's name was.
Because, to me, the history of the bible is fascinating. How it came about
is a great big mystery that historians and theologians strive to unravel and
many religious types try to dismiss if it conflicts with their view that the
bible is the word of god. By pointing out that "Judas Iscariot" is about as
transparent a manufactured character as "Tar Baby" in a Twain novel, it
underscores that the bible was written by men for many different reasons and
that more than likely most things, such as Jesus betrayal, did not happen
the way it says.
According to you he did not exist.
Wouldn't the logical thing for you to do be to have such an impressive
life as an atheist
What would be impressive is if people such as yourself would stop labeling
everyone that doesn't believe the way do both spiritually, textually,
connonically, and politically as atheists. If you people would ever learn to
quit jumping to conclusion and deal rationally with an argument, it would be
amazing.
that you would not even need to acknowledge any of
the things you call fiction? So why do you spend all of your time
trying to prove Jesus Christ did not exist?
If people like you would quit trying to prove to me that Jesus did exist as
you believe and take no for an answer, and quit trying to foist your
religion on me through government, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 09:02:56 PM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145083894.239770.56010@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census
and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was
not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish
scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character made up
to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite
convenient,
don't you think?
Well, your statement does not make much sense. If you believe Christ's
death did not take place, what difference would it make to you what
Judas Iscariot's name was.
Because, to me, the history of the bible is fascinating. How it came about
is a great big mystery that historians and theologians strive to unravel and
many religious types try to dismiss if it conflicts with their view that the
bible is the word of god. By pointing out that "Judas Iscariot" is about as
transparent a manufactured character as "Tar Baby" in a Twain novel, it
underscores that the bible was written by men for many different reasons and
that more than likely most things, such as Jesus betrayal, did not happen
the way it says.
According to you he did not exist.
Wouldn't the logical thing for you to do be to have such an impressive
life as an atheist
What would be impressive is if people such as yourself would stop labeling
everyone that doesn't believe the way do both spiritually, textually,
connonically, and politically as atheists. If you people would ever learn to
quit jumping to conclusion and deal rationally with an argument, it would be
amazing.
that you would not even need to acknowledge any of
the things you call fiction? So why do you spend all of your time
trying to prove Jesus Christ did not exist?
If people like you would quit trying to prove to me that Jesus did exist as
you believe and take no for an answer, and quit trying to foist your
religion on me through government, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.
Well, I have never done any of those things, and you have gone on
incessantly since the first post I put here.
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:48:33 AM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145239376.251162.298780@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145083894.239770.56010@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census
and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for
it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to
fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was
not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any
event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish
scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character made
up
to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the
betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite
convenient,
don't you think?
Well, your statement does not make much sense. If you believe Christ's
death did not take place, what difference would it make to you what
Judas Iscariot's name was.
Because, to me, the history of the bible is fascinating. How it came
about
is a great big mystery that historians and theologians strive to unravel
and
many religious types try to dismiss if it conflicts with their view that
the
bible is the word of god. By pointing out that "Judas Iscariot" is about
as
transparent a manufactured character as "Tar Baby" in a Twain novel, it
underscores that the bible was written by men for many different reasons
and
that more than likely most things, such as Jesus betrayal, did not happen
the way it says.
According to you he did not exist.
Wouldn't the logical thing for you to do be to have such an impressive
life as an atheist
What would be impressive is if people such as yourself would stop
labeling
everyone that doesn't believe the way do both spiritually, textually,
connonically, and politically as atheists. If you people would ever learn
to
quit jumping to conclusion and deal rationally with an argument, it would
be
amazing.
that you would not even need to acknowledge any of
the things you call fiction? So why do you spend all of your time
trying to prove Jesus Christ did not exist?
If people like you would quit trying to prove to me that Jesus did exist
as
you believe and take no for an answer, and quit trying to foist your
religion on me through government, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.
Well, I have never done any of those things, and you have gone on
incessantly since the first post I put here.
Because you have tried to assert Jesus existed though I told you I am an
unbeliever.
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
18 Apr 2006 09:05:50 AM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145239376.251162.298780@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145083894.239770.56010@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n66dnQDCJ-bAs6LZRVn-hg@comcast.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus
of -Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census
and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for
it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to
fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in
Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was
not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any
event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish
scripture.
It's enough for me that Judas Iscariot is most likely a character made
up
to
take the blame of christ deaths away from the romans. Having the
betrayer
named "Jew the Sicarii", enemies of Roman occupation, is quite
convenient,
don't you think?
Well, your statement does not make much sense. If you believe Christ's
death did not take place, what difference would it make to you what
Judas Iscariot's name was.
Because, to me, the history of the bible is fascinating. How it came
about
is a great big mystery that historians and theologians strive to unravel
and
many religious types try to dismiss if it conflicts with their view that
the
bible is the word of god. By pointing out that "Judas Iscariot" is about
as
transparent a manufactured character as "Tar Baby" in a Twain novel, it
underscores that the bible was written by men for many different reasons
and
that more than likely most things, such as Jesus betrayal, did not happen
the way it says.
According to you he did not exist.
Wouldn't the logical thing for you to do be to have such an impressive
life as an atheist
What would be impressive is if people such as yourself would stop
labeling
everyone that doesn't believe the way do both spiritually, textually,
connonically, and politically as atheists. If you people would ever learn
to
quit jumping to conclusion and deal rationally with an argument, it would
be
amazing.
that you would not even need to acknowledge any of
the things you call fiction? So why do you spend all of your time
trying to prove Jesus Christ did not exist?
If people like you would quit trying to prove to me that Jesus did exist
as
you believe and take no for an answer, and quit trying to foist your
religion on me through government, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.
Well, I have never done any of those things, and you have gone on
incessantly since the first post I put here.
Because you have tried to assert Jesus existed though I told you I am an
unbeliever.
You have that a little backwards. You tried to assert that Jesus did
not exist even though I told you I am a believer. If you were a true
unbeliever, you would not concern yourself with what I believe. You
would just live your Godless life in such a manner as to show the
entire world that your way is better. But you cannot do that because
you are a follower of Satan, and Satan knows that Jesus Christ exists.
Consequently, you have no choice but to continually attack Christianty.
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 08:24:22 AM |
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Bill Shatzer wrote:
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
-snip-
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
Yah notice the convoluted story Luke had to go through to get Jesus of
-Nazereth- born in Bethlehem?
There is, of course, no historical record of any Roman tax or census and
certainly none that anyone was required to relocate themselves for it.
Luke just had a biblical passage and had to make up a story to fulfill
that "prophecy" and find a way explain why a Nazerene was born in Bethlehem.
The story was invented to fulfill the "prophecy", the "prophecy" was not
fulfilled by the story.
Though the passage in Micah doesn't refer to a Messiah in any event -
Luke, being a gentile didn't really understand a lot of Jewish scripture.
Peace and justice,
Well, if you think that what Luke wrote was convoluted, you must also
think that what John and Matthew wrote was convoluted, and they were
Jews. Both Matthew and John also said that Jesus was born in
Bethlehem. How do you explain that if it was just a story made up by
Luke?
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 03:57:06 PM |
|
|
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:
Well, if you think that what Luke wrote was convoluted, you must also
think that what John and Matthew wrote was convoluted, and they were
Jews. Both Matthew and John also said that Jesus was born in
Bethlehem. How do you explain that if it was just a story made up by
Luke?
They were all working from the same source, the missing Q document.
Each added his own embellishments to suit his intended audience. In
that era, a good story with a moral lesson was more important that
factual accuracy.
lojbab
.
|
|
|
| User: "rbwinn" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 01:36:59 AM |
|
|
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:
Well, if you think that what Luke wrote was convoluted, you must also
think that what John and Matthew wrote was convoluted, and they were
Jews. Both Matthew and John also said that Jesus was born in
Bethlehem. How do you explain that if it was just a story made up by
Luke?
They were all working from the same source, the missing Q document.
Each added his own embellishments to suit his intended audience. In
that era, a good story with a moral lesson was more important that
factual accuracy.
Well, what about today? A while back I was conversing with some
atheists who told me that Hezekiah's tunnel had to be a hoax because it
was described in the Bible.
What you are saying is about the same kind of reasoning.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "cor" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 01:35:18 AM |
|
|
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10 to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Yea, wait a moment stupid. Two identical twins will have identical DNA, thus
a case based only on DNA has a probability of a false positive on that basis
alone (not to mention sample misplacement, misidentification, or criminal
mischief) is a lot higher than 1 in in a quintillion or whatever that *****
number is.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "rbwinn" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
13 Apr 2006 05:50:47 PM |
|
|
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
=A9 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager =
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is consider=
ed
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10 to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went in=
to
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea Scro=
lls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled =
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he t=
ook
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah 13:6=
)=2E
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a probabil=
ity
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the small=
est
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take 2=
..5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a distan=
ce
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons, i=
nto
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering t=
he
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You =
are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting t=
he
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line. Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept =
or
reject.
OK. I read it.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 11:19:22 AM |
|
|
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144968647.448160.21050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is
considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10 to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went
into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea
Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he
took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah
13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a
probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the
smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take
2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a
distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons,
into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering
the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You
are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting
the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line. Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept
or
reject.
OK. I read it.
Robert B. Winn
So now you know that fundamentalist christians are pretty much dumb as a box
of rocks when it comes to science, math, statistics, and logic.
.
|
|
|
| User: "rbwinn" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 12:31:11 PM |
|
|
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144968647.448160.21050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
=A9 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Mau=
ndy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is
considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often t=
he
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10=
to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went
into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea
Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major prophec=
ies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he
took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donk=
ey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah
13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a
probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number =
of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the
smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take
2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a
distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons,
into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability =
of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that =
Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering
the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You
are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting
the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line. Cou=
ld
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in or=
der
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept
or
reject.
OK. I read it.
Robert B. Winn
So now you know that fundamentalist christians are pretty much dumb as a =
box
of rocks when it comes to science, math, statistics, and logic.
Well, I knew that, but look at nuclear physicists, mathematicians, and
college professors. They all think that if an object moves, it gets
physically shorter according to the Lorentz equations. A box of rocks
seems fairly intelligent compared to that.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 12:37:58 PM |
|
|
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145035870.971260.201390@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144968647.448160.21050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on
Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is
considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often
the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10
to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went
into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea
Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major
prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he
took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly
donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah
13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a
probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number
of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the
smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take
2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a
distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons,
into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability
of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that
Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering
the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You
are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting
the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line.
Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in
order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept
or
reject.
OK. I read it.
Robert B. Winn
So now you know that fundamentalist christians are pretty much dumb as a
box
of rocks when it comes to science, math, statistics, and logic.
Well, I knew that, but look at nuclear physicists, mathematicians, and
college professors. They all think that if an object moves, it gets
physically shorter according to the Lorentz equations. A box of rocks
seems fairly intelligent compared to that.
I guess you just joined the Box of Rocks brigade.
.
|
|
|
| User: "rbwinn" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 12:47:32 PM |
|
|
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145035870.971260.201390@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144968647.448160.21050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
=A9 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on
Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who =
He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wa=
ger
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and a=
re
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is
considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often
the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability o=
f a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in =
10
to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went
into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea
Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfil=
led
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major
prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, =
he
took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bibl=
e=2E
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly
donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah
13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a
probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Div=
ine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number
of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet de=
ep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the
smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would ta=
ke
2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, sin=
gle
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a
distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball=
of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electron=
s,
into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not=
be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability
of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that
Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just tho=
se
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars coveri=
ng
the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. =
You
are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecti=
ng
the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line.
Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing w=
hen
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence t=
hat
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in
order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to acc=
ept
or
reject.
OK. I read it.
Robert B. Winn
So now you know that fundamentalist christians are pretty much dumb as a
box
of rocks when it comes to science, math, statistics, and logic.
Well, I knew that, but look at nuclear physicists, mathematicians, and
college professors. They all think that if an object moves, it gets
physically shorter according to the Lorentz equations. A box of rocks
seems fairly intelligent compared to that.
I guess you just joined the Box of Rocks brigade.
Well, why guess about things all the time? If you ever learned to do
something besides making accusations, you could actually know something
for yourself.
Robert B. Winn
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 02:46:35 PM |
|
|
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036852.789995.178900@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145035870.971260.201390@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144968647.448160.21050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on
Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who
He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this
wager
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and
are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is
considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often
the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of
a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in
10
to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went
into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea
Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were
fulfilled
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major
prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then,
he
took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the
Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly
donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah
13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a
probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without
Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number
of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet
deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the
smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would
take
2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line,
single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a
distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball
of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of
electrons,
into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not
be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability
of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that
Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just
those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars
covering
the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish.
You
are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and
selecting
the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line.
Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing
when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence
that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in
order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to
accept
or
reject.
OK. I read it.
Robert B. Winn
So now you know that fundamentalist christians are pretty much dumb as a
box
of rocks when it comes to science, math, statistics, and logic.
Well, I knew that, but look at nuclear physicists, mathematicians, and
college professors. They all think that if an object moves, it gets
physically shorter according to the Lorentz equations. A box of rocks
seems fairly intelligent compared to that.
I guess you just joined the Box of Rocks brigade.
Well, why guess about things all the time?
Exactly, why guess that the gnostics were wrong, the bible as written is
right, andf that Jesus was divine lacking any evidence?
If you ever learned to do
something besides making accusations, you could actually know something
for yourself.
I do know something. I know that someone's opinion on religion and divinity
such as yours is no better than anybody elses, and that claiming a woman
beaten by bikers proves Jesus felt pain on the cross and died is absurd.
And I know the bible is not the literal word of god, nor should it be given
any more credibility than any other tome written by ancients.
.
|
|
|
| User: "rbwinn" |
|
| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 12:43:49 AM |
|
|
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036852.789995.178900@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145035870.971260.201390@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1144968647.448160.21050@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand scienc=
e,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
=A9 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on
Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who
He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silv=
er.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this
wager
was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and
are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is
considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is oft=
en
the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability=
of
a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in
10
to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and w=
ent
into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea
Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were
fulfilled
by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major
prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then,
he
took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientif=
ic
Affiliation and had them verified usi | | | | | | | |
