| Topic: |
Sociology > Education |
| User: |
"Dominic Torrazzi" |
| Date: |
13 Apr 2006 05:43:24 PM |
| Object: |
You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.
You bet your life
Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com
When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager was
against impossible odds.
Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?
Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is considered
proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10 to
the 29th power if using a full profile.
Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.
The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went into
great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea Scrolls
confirm that they remained unchanged.
Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled by
Jesus.
Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he took
more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.
Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:
Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah 13:6).
Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).
The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a probability
of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.
Exactly what do these numbers mean?
Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the smallest
known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take 2.5
x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.
Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a distance
of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons, into
a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.
Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.
Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering the
state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You are
given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting the
right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line. Could
you do it?
Would you bet your life on that?
Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.
Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept or
reject.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 07:26:37 AM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145079829.015332.118730@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036852.789995.178900@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I do know something. I know that someone's opinion on religion and
divinity
such as yours is no better than anybody elses, and that claiming a woman
beaten by bikers proves Jesus felt pain on the cross and died is absurd.
And I know the bible is not the literal word of god, nor should it be
given
any more credibility than any other tome written by ancients.
OK, so you are saying that you agree with the Gnostics. Just because a
woman who was crucified a few years ago said she felt pain when it
happened, it does not mean that Jesus Christ felt pain when he was
crucified.
You just can't get past the idea that I don't believe in the bible. It
doesn't matter to me if the books were included or not included. It's all
the same.
My opinion is that you and the Gnostics are wrong, and that the
woman and Jesus Christ both felt pain during crucifixion.
Your opinion is just opinion until you can back it up with evidence.
You assert the bible is the word of god, you get to prove it.
Well, suppose you and your fellow athiests were to file a lawsuit
against me to try to stop me from teaching that Jesus Christ felt pain
on the cross. There was a similar lawsuit filed recently in Italy. I
could go to Florida and get the woman who was crucified there by the
motorcycle gang members, since she lived through the experience, have
her testify as a witness for the defense, and you would lose your
lawsuit against me. So tell me something. If I could do this in a
court of law, and the woman's testimony would be accepted as evidence,
why isn't it evidence when I present it in this newsgroup? The answer
is that you worshippers of absolute time do everything in a habitual
manner, and it is your habit to close your eyes to anything that is
true, accepting only what you perceive as coming from your own group.
My personal opinion is that the only thing that will prove anything to
you will be the return of Jesus Christ to judge this earth. So why
don't we just wait for that event instead of bickering about whether or
not Jesus Christ felt pain when he was crucified?
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Curt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 09:58:27 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
You assert the bible is the word of god, you get to prove it.
Well, suppose you and your fellow athiests were to file a lawsuit
against me to try to stop me from teaching that Jesus Christ felt pain
on the cross. There was a similar lawsuit filed recently in Italy. I
could go to Florida and get the woman who was crucified there by the
motorcycle gang members, since she lived through the experience, have
her testify as a witness for the defense, and you would lose your
lawsuit against me. So tell me something. If I could do this in a
court of law, and the woman's testimony would be accepted as evidence,
why isn't it evidence when I present it in this newsgroup? The answer
is that you worshippers of absolute time do everything in a habitual
manner, and it is your habit to close your eyes to anything that is
true, accepting only what you perceive as coming from your own group.
My personal opinion is that the only thing that will prove anything to
you will be the return of Jesus Christ to judge this earth. So why
don't we just wait for that event instead of bickering about whether or
not Jesus Christ felt pain when he was crucified?
That would be just jake with me.
Meanwhile, let's let gays get married. Since the only person who has any
right to object to such a thing is the Baby Jeeezus and .. well .. so far,
he ain't here. We could make them sign a form when they get married saying
they understand that if they get married, and if the baby Jesus comes back,
they're going to burn in hellfire forever. After that, we could just leave
them alone. Sound good?
Curt
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 12:57:12 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145190397.810022.75990@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145079829.015332.118730@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036852.789995.178900@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I do know something. I know that someone's opinion on religion and
divinity
such as yours is no better than anybody elses, and that claiming a
woman
beaten by bikers proves Jesus felt pain on the cross and died is
absurd.
And I know the bible is not the literal word of god, nor should it be
given
any more credibility than any other tome written by ancients.
OK, so you are saying that you agree with the Gnostics. Just because a
woman who was crucified a few years ago said she felt pain when it
happened, it does not mean that Jesus Christ felt pain when he was
crucified.
You just can't get past the idea that I don't believe in the bible. It
doesn't matter to me if the books were included or not included. It's all
the same.
My opinion is that you and the Gnostics are wrong, and that the
woman and Jesus Christ both felt pain during crucifixion.
Your opinion is just opinion until you can back it up with evidence.
You assert the bible is the word of god, you get to prove it.
Well, suppose you and your fellow athiests
So now I'm an atheist?
You christian literalist's arrogant presumptuousness knows no shame.
were to file a lawsuit
against me to try to stop me from teaching that Jesus Christ felt pain
on the cross.
Then we would be as insane as you.
There was a similar lawsuit filed recently in Italy. I
could go to Florida and get the woman who was crucified there by the
motorcycle gang members, since she lived through the experience, have
her testify as a witness for the defense, and you would lose your
lawsuit against me. So tell me something. If I could do this in a
court of law, and the woman's testimony would be accepted as evidence,
why isn't it evidence when I present it in this newsgroup? The answer
is that you worshippers of absolute time do everything in a habitual
manner, and it is your habit to close your eyes to anything that is
true, accepting only what you perceive as coming from your own group.
My personal opinion is that the only thing that will prove anything to
you will be the return of Jesus Christ to judge this earth. So why
don't we just wait for that event instead of bickering about whether or
not Jesus Christ felt pain when he was crucified?
Why don't you just prove the bible is the word of god.
Until then you should stop asserting that it is unless you want to be a
major hypocrit.
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 02:28:49 PM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145190397.810022.75990@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145079829.015332.118730@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036852.789995.178900@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I do know something. I know that someone's opinion on religion and
divinity
such as yours is no better than anybody elses, and that claiming a
woman
beaten by bikers proves Jesus felt pain on the cross and died is
absurd.
And I know the bible is not the literal word of god, nor should it be
given
any more credibility than any other tome written by ancients.
OK, so you are saying that you agree with the Gnostics. Just because a
woman who was crucified a few years ago said she felt pain when it
happened, it does not mean that Jesus Christ felt pain when he was
crucified.
You just can't get past the idea that I don't believe in the bible. It
doesn't matter to me if the books were included or not included. It's all
the same.
My opinion is that you and the Gnostics are wrong, and that the
woman and Jesus Christ both felt pain during crucifixion.
Your opinion is just opinion until you can back it up with evidence.
You assert the bible is the word of god, you get to prove it.
Well, suppose you and your fellow athiests
So now I'm an atheist?
You christian literalist's arrogant presumptuousness knows no shame.
were to file a lawsuit
against me to try to stop me from teaching that Jesus Christ felt pain
on the cross.
Then we would be as insane as you.
So do you think the person in Italy who filed a lawsuit against a
Catholic priest to stop him from teaching about Jesus Christ was
insane? I don't think he was.
There was a similar lawsuit filed recently in Italy. I
could go to Florida and get the woman who was crucified there by the
motorcycle gang members, since she lived through the experience, have
her testify as a witness for the defense, and you would lose your
lawsuit against me. So tell me something. If I could do this in a
court of law, and the woman's testimony would be accepted as evidence,
why isn't it evidence when I present it in this newsgroup? The answer
is that you worshippers of absolute time do everything in a habitual
manner, and it is your habit to close your eyes to anything that is
true, accepting only what you perceive as coming from your own group.
My personal opinion is that the only thing that will prove anything to
you will be the return of Jesus Christ to judge this earth. So why
don't we just wait for that event instead of bickering about whether or
not Jesus Christ felt pain when he was crucified?
Why don't you just prove the bible is the word of god.
Until then you should stop asserting that it is unless you want to be a
major hypocrit.
Why should I do anything different than Jesus Christ did. He said that
a wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, but there
would be no sign given unto them but the sign of the prophet Jonas. I
think I should do exactly what Jesus Christ did. When you see the sun
darkened and Jesus Christ returns to judge the earth, you will know
that the Bible is true.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 12:01:02 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145215729.321945.122400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
When you see the sun darkened and Jesus Christ returns to judge the earth,
you will know
that the Bible is true.
Will there be Hobbits and Dragons? That would be COOL!
Just imagine how many billions upon billions of Christians have been
controlled all their lives by religious doctrine because somebody made them
believe that they would live the see the sun darkened and JC return to judge
the earth.
Billions, all living their lives faithfully believing the promise that This
Time the End Times Really Are At Hand. No, Really.
-c
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 12:03:20 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:01:02 GMT, "gatt"
<LiveFromTheClocktower@gfy.com> wrote:
Just imagine how many billions upon billions of Christians have been
controlled all their lives by religious doctrine because somebody made them
believe that they would live the see the sun darkened and JC return to judge
the earth.
Billions, all living their lives faithfully believing the promise that This
Time the End Times Really Are At Hand. No, Really.
Those who did have made a pretty good living off it.
.
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 12:52:55 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:01:02 GMT, "gatt"
<LiveFromTheClocktower@gfy.com> wrote:
Just imagine how many billions upon billions of Christians have been
controlled all their lives by religious doctrine because somebody made them
believe that they would live the see the sun darkened and JC return to judge
the earth.
The books that drive that control clearly have been written by folks
with various points of view on what is and is not Revealed Truth.
The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America discusses this briefly at
its site here:
http://www.elca.org/questions/Results.asp?recid=15
Different Translations of the Bible
Biblical translations vary according to language and points of view,
and also in their usefulness in different circumstances.
Language and points of view
When we read the Bible in English or any modern language, we are
reading a translation primarily from ancient Hebrew and Greek
manuscripts. No such translation can be completely literal and still
make sense to contemporary readers. Hence, every translation is an
interpretation shaped by time, translator(s), and often cultural
nuance. ELCA Lutherans also read the Bible as a cross-cultural
experience, taking into account that it was written in times and
places far removed from our own.
If you have one or more Bibles in your home, look at the cover or in
the front pages to see what translation or version it is. Some, such
as the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) of the 1952 Revised
Standard Version (RSV) and the New International Version (NIV), seek
to provide to the greatest extent possible a literal word-for-word
translation from original-language ancient manuscripts. Some, such as
Today's English Version (TEV) (sometimes called The Good News Bible),
have a meaning-for-meaning translation (i.e. "In today's language,
this is what the ancient manuscript is saying to us"). Others, such
as the Living Bible Paraphrased (LBP) are paraphrases - using words
that place a higher priority on conveying the story’s meaning, than
attending to linguistic accuracy. The less literal the translation,
the more likely it will reflect the translator's perspective. The LBP
is the work of one person, and his personal point of view as a
practicing Baptist is evident.
Even translations by committees can carry points of view. The NRSV
committee included both male and female scholars from all major
Protestant denominations (as well as Roman Catholic and Jewish
representatives). It is not surprising that the NRSV tends to use
inclusive language when it is obvious that the original texts refer to
women and well as men (e.g., translating as "brothers and sisters" a
word previously translated "brethren").
The King James Version (KJV) is renowned for its beautiful, poetic use
of the English language, but it is a translation that preceded 500
years of linguistic and archeological study available to modern
translators. We simply know more about Biblical times and languages
than did 17th Century English translators. Of course language meaning
also has changed, and uncovering older, more complete ancient
manuscripts helps to fill in gaps or correct errors in translation
(e.g., a word translated several times as "unicorn" in the KJV is now
known to translate as "wild ox").....
My preference is to discuss from the KJV, which is the last specific
translation that was most universal in its time amongst the Protestant
side of things well into the mid-w0th century. It's the one I did most
of my scriptural memorization from and the one that tends to be quoted
most even now.
The Douai, which was in its various forms the RC bible, until its
major revision in 1966, is another version, though I am not as
familiar with it -- not being of the RC persuasion (and not having
anything tattooed on my neck either).
They are Not at all identical, and in some rather specific ways are
not even similar wrt some important matters. They do not contain the
same books, for example.
Feel free to look it up further here:
http://artemis.austincollege.edu/acad/HWC22/Medieval/Bible/Bible_in_English.html
Point is, these Statements of Absolute Authority wander all over
hellandgone, depending entirely on the specific group wishing to make
their specific point on doctrinal matters.
Which One is Correct?
All of them are! Which is rather the essential point to be made in
such discussions. They each and all had their defenders in their own
time and place. Each defender had The Mind of The Lowered by the
short hairs, and trumpeted it loudly everywhere possible.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 12:56:03 PM |
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gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145215729.321945.122400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
When you see the sun darkened and Jesus Christ returns to judge the earth,
you will know
that the Bible is true.
Will there be Hobbits and Dragons? That would be COOL!
Just imagine how many billions upon billions of Christians have been
controlled all their lives by religious doctrine because somebody made them
believe that they would live the see the sun darkened and JC return to judge
the earth.
Billions, all living their lives faithfully believing the promise that This
Time the End Times Really Are At Hand. No, Really.
Well, Jesus Christ said it. Some people believe it, and some people do
not. I am one of the ones who believe it.
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 03:36:21 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145296563.392025.304610@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Billions, all living their lives faithfully believing the promise that
This
Time the End Times Really Are At Hand. No, Really.
Well, Jesus Christ said it. Some people believe it, and some people do
not. I am one of the ones who believe it.
Well where the hell is this so-called apocalypse y'all been promising? Let
me guess. It's "in the mail."
It's a forgone conclusion that at some point civilization is going to die
off, just like it's inevitable that we're all going to die. But you don't
walk up to somebody and say "You're gonna die if you don't stop smoking"
and, when they kick off at 105 years old, say "I told you so."
When the sun cooks us or the comet hits or whatever happens, the zealots
will scream "We told you that last x-thousand years the end times were
coming...."
-c
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
18 Apr 2006 12:00:12 AM |
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gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145296563.392025.304610@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Billions, all living their lives faithfully believing the promise that
This
Time the End Times Really Are At Hand. No, Really.
Well, Jesus Christ said it. Some people believe it, and some people do
not. I am one of the ones who believe it.
Well where the hell is this so-called apocalypse y'all been promising? Let
me guess. It's "in the mail."
It's a forgone conclusion that at some point civilization is going to die
off, just like it's inevitable that we're all going to die. But you don't
walk up to somebody and say "You're gonna die if you don't stop smoking"
and, when they kick off at 105 years old, say "I told you so."
When the sun cooks us or the comet hits or whatever happens, the zealots
will scream "We told you that last x-thousand years the end times were
coming...."
Well, the key to the matter is that unless Jesus Christ returns and
judges this earth, it did not happen. Inhabitants of this earth are
going to believe with each tribulation that this has to be the last
one. No. It is not the last one until Jesus Christ is back on earth.
Robert B. Winn
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
18 Apr 2006 11:52:45 AM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145336412.933539.154310@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well, the key to the matter is that unless Jesus Christ returns and
judges this earth, it did not happen. Inhabitants of this earth are
going to believe with each tribulation that this has to be the last
one. No. It is not the last one until Jesus Christ is back on earth.
Actually, it's the last one when human extinction inevitably occurs.
-c
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| User: "Larry the Free" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
18 Apr 2006 10:15:39 AM |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
Well, the key to the matter is that unless Jesus Christ returns and
judges this earth, it did not happen. Inhabitants of this earth are
going to believe with each tribulation that this has to be the last
one. No. It is not the last one until Jesus Christ is back on earth.
Maybe he's gone to the Crab Nebulae where the folks are more maleable..?
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 12:56:07 PM |
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gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145215729.321945.122400@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
When you see the sun darkened and Jesus Christ returns to judge the earth,
you will know
that the Bible is true.
Will there be Hobbits and Dragons? That would be COOL!
Just imagine how many billions upon billions of Christians have been
controlled all their lives by religious doctrine because somebody made them
believe that they would live the see the sun darkened and JC return to judge
the earth.
Billions, all living their lives faithfully believing the promise that This
Time the End Times Really Are At Hand. No, Really.
Well, Jesus Christ said it. Some people believe it, and some people do
not. I am one of the ones who believe it.
Robert B. Winn
.
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| User: "Larry the J." |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 03:23:22 PM |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
When you see the sun
darkened and Jesus Christ returns to judge the earth, you will know
that the Bible is true.
Is that also when pigs will fly..?
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 08:05:58 PM |
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Larry the J. wrote:
Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
When you see the sun
darkened and Jesus Christ returns to judge the earth, you will know
that the Bible is true.
Is that also when pigs will fly..?
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 08:07:09 PM |
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Pigs sometimes fly when there is a tornado.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Larry the J." |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:13:56 AM |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
Pigs sometimes fly when there is a tornado.
That's where you should look for Geezis then...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:26:33 AM |
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Larry the J. wrote:
Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
Pigs sometimes fly when there is a tornado.
That's where you should look for Geezis then...
Well, thanks just the same, but I think I will decide for myself what
to do.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Larry the J." |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
17 Apr 2006 10:54:20 AM |
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Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
Larry the J. wrote:
Waiving the right to remain silent, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> said:
Pigs sometimes fly when there is a tornado.
That's where you should look for Geezis then...
Well, thanks just the same, but I think I will decide for myself what
to do.
Just trying to be helpful...
--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
"I've come here to enjoy nature. Don't talk to me
about the environment!" - 'Denny Crane'
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| User: "Don Homuth" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 12:34:36 PM |
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On 14 Apr 2006 10:31:11 -0700, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:
... look at nuclear physicists, mathematicians, and
college professors. They all think that if an object moves, it gets
physically shorter according to the Lorentz equations.
At relativistic velocities, it does, because it Must.
Otherwise, it couldn't exist at all!
A box of rocks
seems fairly intelligent compared to that.
Spoken with all the Adamant Ignorance that only an Xtian Fundy can
come up with.
But fwiw, the effect has been measured physically. It actually does
happen.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 12:44:53 PM |
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Don Homuth wrote:
On 14 Apr 2006 10:31:11 -0700, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:
... look at nuclear physicists, mathematicians, and
college professors. They all think that if an object moves, it gets
physically shorter according to the Lorentz equations.
At relativistic velocities, it does, because it Must.
Otherwise, it couldn't exist at all!
A box of rocks
seems fairly intelligent compared to that.
Spoken with all the Adamant Ignorance that only an Xtian Fundy can
come up with.
But fwiw, the effect has been measured physically. It actually does
happen.
Yeah, so who measured it? These educated people have the result they
get because they do not understand that relative to a set of Cartesian
coordinates, a photon has a velocity of -c if it is moving in the -x
direction. If you use speed of light the way they do, c is always
positive. Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "gatt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
14 Apr 2006 01:37:22 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the uneducated explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
-c
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 12:23:06 AM |
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gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the uneducated explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Curt" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 02:37:33 AM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145078586.303248.269830@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the uneducated
explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
I think it's 186,000 miles per second, isn't it?
Just the other way.
It's been oh gosh, a really long time since physics class.
Curt
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 07:29:09 AM |
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Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145078586.303248.269830@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the uneducated
explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
I think it's 186,000 miles per second, isn't it?
Just the other way.
It's been oh gosh, a really long time since physics class.
Curt
Well, see, you missed your true calling in life. You could have been a
nuclear physicist. They get the same answer you do. Actually,
according to mathematics, the velocity of a photon traveling as I
described is -186,000 miles per second relative to the set of Cartesian
coordinates. If you respond to this post, then we will know why you
did not become a nuclear physicist. A true scientist would not
respond.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 12:43:10 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145104149.501294.296190@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145078586.303248.269830@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit
ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the uneducated
explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
I think it's 186,000 miles per second, isn't it?
Just the other way.
It's been oh gosh, a really long time since physics class.
Curt
Well, see, you missed your true calling in life. You could have been a
nuclear physicist. They get the same answer you do. Actually,
according to mathematics, the velocity of a photon traveling as I
described is -186,000 miles per second relative to the set of Cartesian
coordinates. If you respond to this post, then we will know why you
did not become a nuclear physicist. A true scientist would not
respond.
Has the speed of light slowed down since the creation?
I'm curious how a real scientist such as yourself would answer this, in
light of your dismissal of Lorentz.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
15 Apr 2006 11:54:20 PM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145104149.501294.296190@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145078586.303248.269830@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit
ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the uneducated
explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
I think it's 186,000 miles per second, isn't it?
Just the other way.
It's been oh gosh, a really long time since physics class.
Curt
Well, see, you missed your true calling in life. You could have been a
nuclear physicist. They get the same answer you do. Actually,
according to mathematics, the velocity of a photon traveling as I
described is -186,000 miles per second relative to the set of Cartesian
coordinates. If you respond to this post, then we will know why you
did not become a nuclear physicist. A true scientist would not
respond.
Has the speed of light slowed down since the creation?
I'm curious how a real scientist such as yourself would answer this, in
light of your dismissal of Lorentz.
I am not a scientist. I am a welder with a high school education. My
personal belief is that light travels at all velocities, but reacts
with the elements in this part of the universe at a rate of c=186,000
miles per second.
I would assume that you are asking about the red-shift. No, the
galaxies are not moving apart. What Hubble observed was an effect of
relativity. Light traveling from a far distant galaxy travels further
than the actual distance between the galaxy and earth because it is
deflected on the way by gravitation. This means it takes a longer time
to get here than
x/c=t. Because the light waves emitted at the far distant galaxy are
spread out over a longer distance and take a longer time, their
frequency is lower when they reach earth. Similarly, light from our
sun has a lower frequency when it reaches the far distant galaxy.
An observer on earth measures the speed of the light from the far
distant galaxy the same as the speed of light from a near star. It
just has a lower frequency. If x' is the distance traveled by a photon
considering its deflection by gravitation, then x'/c=t' where t' is a
longer time than t.
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Dominic Torrazzi" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 12:41:00 PM |
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"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145163260.863271.287670@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145104149.501294.296190@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145078586.303248.269830@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit
ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the
uneducated
explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you
explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along
the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x
direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
I think it's 186,000 miles per second, isn't it?
Just the other way.
It's been oh gosh, a really long time since physics class.
Curt
Well, see, you missed your true calling in life. You could have been a
nuclear physicist. They get the same answer you do. Actually,
according to mathematics, the velocity of a photon traveling as I
described is -186,000 miles per second relative to the set of Cartesian
coordinates. If you respond to this post, then we will know why you
did not become a nuclear physicist. A true scientist would not
respond.
Has the speed of light slowed down since the creation?
I'm curious how a real scientist such as yourself would answer this, in
light of your dismissal of Lorentz.
I am not a scientist. I am a welder with a high school education. My
personal belief is that light travels at all velocities,
And per your resume, your belief amounts to exactly nothing.
but reacts
with the elements in this part of the universe at a rate of c=186,000
miles per second.
I would assume that you are asking about the red-shift.
No, I was just giving you the opportunity to perform.
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| User: "rbwinn" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 02:10:32 PM |
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Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145163260.863271.287670@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Dominic Torrazzi wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145104149.501294.296190@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Curt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145078586.303248.269830@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
gatt wrote:
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1145036693.348138.281210@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<Consequently, they believe that physical objects have to
shrink in the direction of motion. It is one of the most nitwit
ideas
ever thought of, and all educated people believe it.
That's why we should dispense with education and let the
uneducated
explain
science for us.
Specifically, Christians. Ask Galileo.
OK, as a representative of educated non-Christians, could you
explain
what the velocity of a photon traveling in the -x direction along
the x
axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates is relative to the set of
coordinates if the velocity of a photon traveling in the +x
direction
is c, where c = 186,000 miles per second?
I think it's 186,000 miles per second, isn't it?
Just the other way.
It's been oh gosh, a really long time since physics class.
Curt
Well, see, you missed your true calling in life. You could have been a
nuclear physicist. They get the same answer you do. Actually,
according to mathematics, the velocity of a photon traveling as I
described is -186,000 miles per second relative to the set of Cartesian
coordinates. If you respond to this post, then we will know why you
did not become a nuclear physicist. A true scientist would not
respond.
Has the speed of light slowed down since the creation?
I'm curious how a real scientist such as yourself would answer this, in
light of your dismissal of Lorentz.
I am not a scientist. I am a welder with a high school education. My
personal belief is that light travels at all velocities,
And per your resume, your belief amounts to exactly nothing.
but reacts
with the elements in this part of the universe at a rate of c=186,000
miles per second.
I would assume that you are asking about the red-shift.
No, I was just giving you the opportunity to perform.
Well, I gave you an opportunity to perform. What is the velocity of a
photon moving along the x axis of a set of Cartesian coordinates in the
-x direction relative to the set of Cartesian coordinates?
Still do not care to complete this exercise?
Robert B. Winn
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| User: "Bill Shatzer" |
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| Title: Re: You Have Got To Read This Wingnut Column |
16 Apr 2006 01:21:53 AM |
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rbwinn wrote:
-snip-
I am not a scientist. I am a welder with a high school education. My
personal belief is that light travels at all velocities, but reacts
with the elements in this part of the universe at a rate of c=186,000
miles per second.
I would assume that you are asking about the red-shift. No, the
galaxies are not moving apart. What Hubble observed was an effect of
relativity. Light traveling from a far distant galaxy travels further
than the actual distance between the galaxy and earth because it is
deflected on the way by gravitation. This means it takes a longer time
to get here than
x/c=t. Because the light waves emitted at the far distant galaxy are
spread out over a longer distance and take a longer time, their
frequency is lower when they reach earth. Similarly, light from our
sun has a lower frequency when it reaches the far distant galaxy.
An observer on earth measures the speed of the light from the far
distant galaxy the same as the speed of light from a near star. It
just has a lower frequency. If x' is the distance traveled by a photon
considering its deflection by gravitation, then x'/c=t' where t' is a
longer time than t.
Robert B. Winn
Gawd, you're Raymond Karczewski posting under a nom de net alias,
aren't you?
Sheesh!
Peace and justice,
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