That may be true, but it was worse even then. Most Americans have
actually heard and understood a Bible verse or two. Until the Bible
was translated into local vernaculars, the same could not be said of
the "dark ages".

The common people were more inclined to be obedient to gospel
principles they were taught than the wealthy and powerful, just as
today.

And blacks are also self-labeled "Christian", and probably to a
greater extent than whites, go to church and otherwise practice the
forms of the religion.

Self-labeled? So they have done something you do not approve of.

"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:uodj42pg2tk0klkv3mc7rfekc3ga2f2o5e@4ax.com...

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

In terms of religion, they were dark centuries. The scriptures were
chained to the pulpit, and any common person who read them could be put
to death.

Any common person who read them was not a common person, since common
people couldn't read. Those who could read, still probably wouldn't
have been able to read them, because they were in Latin, and the
common people didn't know Latin. Indeed, in medieval Britain a
substantial percentage of the clergy couldn't read. They studied and
memorized the mass orally, and that was all they needed to know. And
since they didn't know Latin, they probably had only a vague idea what
the words of the mass meant.

For a good thousand years the masses were Christian only because their
rulers said they were Christian. Most probably had little idea what
the religion actually believed, only that they might be put to death
or otherwise punished if they didn't go to church.

The Christian masses in the Yew Ess Aye are the same way today. It has
nothing to do with anything the Baby Jesus said.. all Christian means,
basically, is I'm white and born here.

"rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

In terms of religion, they were dark centuries. The scriptures were
chained to the pulpit, and any common person who read them could be put
to death.

Any common person who read them was not a common person, since common
people couldn't read. Those who could read, still probably wouldn't
have been able to read them, because they were in Latin, and the
common people didn't know Latin. Indeed, in medieval Britain a
substantial percentage of the clergy couldn't read. They studied and
memorized the mass orally, and that was all they needed to know. And
since they didn't know Latin, they probably had only a vague idea what
the words of the mass meant.

For a good thousand years the masses were Christian only because their
rulers said they were Christian. Most probably had little idea what
the religion actually believed, only that they might be put to death
or otherwise punished if they didn't go to church.

lojbab

Sorry I do not communicate in dead languages.

Don Homuth wrote:

On 14 Apr 2006 11:00:08 -0700, "rbwinn" <rbwinn3@juno.com> wrote:

Don Homuth wrote:

When Xtianity was trying to evolve itself out of Judaism, there were a
whole bunch of different approaches to it that had a coterie of firm
believers.

A series of committee meetings decided who was doctrinally correct,
which decisions were then administered by the temporal powers at the
time.

Well, no. There were no committe meetings in the beginning.

Yeah, there surely were. First thing Xrist did was form a committee,
in fact.

There were twelve apostles

Yep -- that's them, all right.

... who had been ordained by Jesus Christ and given
authority to build up his church.

Well, no -- not all of them. Peter was primum inter pares of the
group, according to the Holy Tome.

Sorry I do not communicate in dead languages.

Peter was ordained by
Jesus Christ the same as the other Apostles and set apart as the
leading apostle.

As the church expanded there began
to be false teachings such as the teachings of the Gnostics, who were
Greeks trying to incorporate Greek religion into Christianity.

Who said so? A committee of other superstitionists, that's who. The
determination of the several church councils had no greater divine
authority than did anyone else. They did have the advantage of the
ear of Constantine, early on, and of other temporal leaders as well.

Well, technically you are correct.

Once the apostles were dead, there
was more false teaching than truth. The Council of Nicene had no more
authority than the Gnostics to represent Jesus Christ.

And yagotta love their means of dealing with those who were not in the
majority of the committee at the time. They just killed them off
entirely, as much as possible.

Well, then later on the Bishop of Rome excommunicated the Bishop of
Constantinople, and the Bishop of Constantinople excommunicated the
Bishop of Rome. Which excommunication was the real one?

Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:

Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).

A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).

Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).

Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah 13:6=

Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).

The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).

Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).

His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).

The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power

If you need any evidence that the theocrats don't understand science,
statistics, or logic - have a read.

You bet your life

Posted: April 13, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

=A9 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

When Judas Iscariot agreed to deliver Jesus to the chief priests on Maundy
Thursday some 2,000 years ago, he was betting that Jesus was not who He
claimed to be - the son of God. Judas' payoff was 30 pieces of silver.
However, that betrayal cost Judas his life. History has shown this wager =

against impossible odds.

Today, many are going against the odds and making that same wager.
Just what are the odds that Jesus was God's son?

Although, we will not know with absolute certainty until we die and are
confronted by our Maker, overwhelming statistical probability is consider=

proof by the scientific community. For example, DNA evidence is often the
proof needed to get a crime conviction, even though the probability of a
match may be 1 in a quintillion (1 with 18 zeros after it) or one in 10 to
the 29th power if using a full profile.

Consider the proof in the Bible that Jesus was who He said He was.

The Hebrew Scriptures pointed the way to the promised Messiah and went in=

great detail about His birth, life and death through prophecy. These
prophecies were made many years before Jesus' birth and the Dead Sea Scro=

confirm that they remained unchanged.

Oxford scholar Alfred Edersheim compiled a list of 456 identifying
characteristics of the Messiah from these prophecies that were fulfilled =

Jesus.

Dr. Peter Stoner, professor emeritus of science at Westmont College,
calculated the probability of one man fulfilling just the major prophecies
with the help of 12 different classes of 600 college students. Then, he t=

more conservative figures to the Committee of the American Scientific
Affiliation and had them verified using the data supplied in the Bible.

Stoner looked at these eight prophecies:

Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2).
A messenger was sent to prepare the way (Malachi 3:1).
Made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king riding on a lowly donkey
(Zechariah 9:9).
Betrayed by a friend that resulted in wounds in the hands (Zechariah 13:6=

Price of betrayal was 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12).
The blood money was used to buy a potter's field (Zechariah 11:13).
Offered no defense at his trial (Isaiah 53:7).
His hands and feet were pierced (Psalm 22:16).

The estimate of one man fulfilling all eight of these prophecies was a
staggering 10 to the 17th power, a number with 17 zeroes after it.
In another calculation, he used 48 prophecies and came up with a probabil=

of 10 to the 157th power, an impossible figure to achieve without Divine
intervention.

Exactly what do these numbers mean?

Stoner gave us this example. Ten to the 17th power would be the number of
silver dollars needed to cover the entire state of Texas, two feet deep.
To help us visualize 10 to the 157th power, Stoner chose one of the small=

known objects, the electron. An electron is so small that it would take 2=

x 1,000,000,000,000,000 of them laid side by side to make a line, single
file, one inch long.

Space, according to some estimates, extends in all directions to a distan=

of 6 million light-years. Dr. Stoner asked us to imagine a solid ball of
electrons the size of space. Now fit that space-size ball of electrons, i=

a ball of electrons 10 to the 157th power. How big of a dent would our
space-size ball make? It would make a hole so small that it would not be
noticeable.

Remember, that number 10 to the 157th power represents the probability of
one man fulfilling just 48 of these prophesies and there were 456 that Dr.
Stoner and his mathematicians could have used.

Let us go back to the odds that one man could have fulfilled just those
first eight prophecies. Imagine that one of the silver dollars covering t=

state of Texas, two feet thick, was marked in red fingernail polish. You =

given the task of walking throughout Texas, reaching down and selecting t=

right one on the first try. Suppose your very life was on the line. Could
you do it?

Would you bet your life on that?

Of course you would not, but that is, in effect, what you are doing when
you, like Judas, decide to reject the tremendous amount of evidence that
Jesus Christ was the son of God and the only way to the Father.

Christ willingly laid down His life to pay the price for our sins in order
to give us the gift of eternal life. It is a free gift - yours to accept =

reject.