Science > Philosophy > 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race
| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"Knowledge" |
| Date: |
21 Oct 2007 12:15:06 AM |
| Object: |
10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-wood/10-mistakes-white-people-_b_68694.htm
10 Mistakes White People Make When Talking About Race
Posted October 16, 2007 | 04:00 PM (EST)
Read More: discussing race, race, Racial Attitudes, Racial Comments,
racial identity, racial politics, Breaking Living Now News
Over on SirensMag.com, we're in the midst of a race-themed issue.
Heavy/scary, I know. But I can't tell you how much the act of
discourse about this all-important topic has opened our eyes - and
those of our readers. But not all discourse is good discourse (see
idiotic political blabbermouths of late). It's easy to botch an
important discussion about race with fear, ignorance, or just plain
silliness. Uninformed--or even overly politically correct--white
people are the major offenders, sure, but anyone without adequate
information can be guilty of sounding like a racist or an idiot (wait,
that's redundant). With the help of some favorite (and vocal)
celebrities and writers, here are 10 things not to do when trying to
have an intellectual discussion about race--which, to be clear, you
should do. But first learn from these mistakes:
Email
Print
Comment
1. Thinking It's Not OK to Talk About It
Race is such a touchy topic because it is often associated with all of
the negative history and oppression of minorities in this country.
Blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans share a history of
physical and social abuse at the hand of the white majority. Yes, that
leads to anger and distrust, feelings so strong that they've survived
for centuries. But the only way to bridge the gap and move forward as
a more unified society is to talk about it: all of it.
We are supposed to be engaged in a cultural conversation about race -
a dialogue largely taking place on television and at the movies. We've
traded unquestioned racism for a twisted multicultural correctness.
Everything is celebrated, nothing can be discussed. We seem to want to
live in an imaginary world without racism, where we celebrate
differences but never base our beliefs on them."
- Sallie Tisdale, author of The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Harvest Moon
and Lot's Wife, Stepping Westward and Talk Dirty to Me
2. Using Culture-Specific Slang to Relate to Other Races
K-Fed, you ain't. And you just shouldn't try to be--ever.
Black people have a wide array of colorful terms that come in and go
out of style and can be used in a myriad of different ways. White
people, it will be extremely tempting to try and incorporate these
terms into your everyday language. Don't. When you guys start using
our words, that's when we know it's time to stop using them.
- Nick Adams, author Making Friends With Black People
3. Assuming Biracial People Identify More with One Side Than the Other
The majority race in America today isn't white, black, or even Latino.
It's biracial. And this will only increase with each successive
generation. We're a society that loves to check off boxes, but the
greater challenge is to stop seeing people as shades and start knowing
them for who they are.
As the child of a black man and white woman, born in the melting pot
of Hawaii, with a sister who is half-Indonesian, but who is usually
mistaken for Mexican, and a brother-in-law and niece of Chinese
descent, with some relatives who resemble Margaret Thatcher and others
who could pass for Bernie Mac, I never had the option of restricting
my loyalties on the basis of race or measuring my worth on the basis
of tribe.
- Barack Obama, Kenyan/White American, Illinois Senator, presidential
candidate
4. Thinking Race Is Only an Issue for Minorities
The tendency is to think of "race" as something that only
black/brown/Asian/Hispanic people have - whereas "white" is the
default setting ( i.e., we say "American" to mean white, but "Black
American," "Asian-American," etc. to identify other Americans of
different colors). Everyone has a race. This is a nation of
immigrants, from England, Ireland, France, Germany, Poland, Africa,
Asia, and beyond.
To be white is to have a race and a racial perspective as well, and
that needs much greater acknowledgment in our culture. Discussions of
race will always be limited until white Americans can have an honest,
open discussion about what it means to be white in America - the good
and the bad.
- Molly Faulkner-Bond, biracial Harvard grad who explored issues of
interracial friendship in the current Sirens issue
5. Using Outdated Terms When Describing Different Races
Oriental, Colored, and Indian went out of style a long time ago; in
fact, they're considered offensive. So, too, is lumping every
Spanish-speaking person into a general category like "Mexican" or any
Arab-looking person as "Persian" (it's a specific country, people).
Feeling the need to identify is a nervous reaction we have when faced
with issues of race. Black, white, Asian and Latino/a are generally
accepted, but when in doubt, how about you just call someone by their
actual name. Who says we have to classify ourselves all the time
anyway?
I had to deal with my prejudices. I had to learn to ignore the
taunting labels of other blacks who had everything figured out,
including how I should act according to the color of my skin. I am
human first, and that's where my efforts have gone.
-- Donna Leonard Conger, author of Don't Call Me African-American
6. Believing Stereotypes
Yes, black Americans dominate most sports, more Asians are accepted
into MIT than any other race, and Latinos have been known to tear up a
dance floor. Though some race-specific stereotypes seem like positive
assumptions, imagine yourself on the other end, with high expectations
placed on your shoulders simply because of a scrutinized minority.
White people don't have the pressure to be the best in math or sports;
they just have to be good enough. Everyone else should get the same
slack.
One could say (I don't) that stereotypes are benevolent: All Asians
are smart and hard-working. All Asian men are geeky engineers with
high-flood-water pants and calculators on their belts. All Asian women
are either passive, submissive chrysanthemums or seductive,
manipulative hotties. I suppose it's true that these aren't hugely
destructive stereotypes, but they are stereotypes nonetheless, and
they can have hurtful consequences. I think to get rid of these
stereotypes, Asian Americans are going to have to be more vocal and
political. The same goes for other races.
-- Don Lee, author of Yellow: Stories
7. Thinking Affirmative Action Has Anything to Do With Someone's
Success
One of the most controversial issues of the past 20 years is
affirmative action, a term widely over-used and often misunderstood.
It was supposed to explain educational and hiring policies put in
place to encourage more diversity on college campuses and in the
public sector. The naysayers made it sound like minorities were given
hand-outs, which has resulted in an assumption, even years after most
of those progressive policies have been killed, that a successful
minority must have been given an easy ride. How about you ask Oprah if
she was given an easy ride when networks constantly told her she
looked and sounded too "ethnic" early in her career? Do you think the
late CBS anchor Ed Bradley was given a break when he accidentally
became the first African-American White House correspondent, a result
of his network sending him to cover what they thought would be a Jimmy
Carter loss? And of these two "View" hosts, who do you think earned
their coveted role more: Lisa Ling, a trained journalist, or Elizabeth
Hasselbeck, a "Survivor" contestant?
A white boy that makes C's in college can make it to the White House.
-- Chris Rock
8. Assuming One Man's Success = An Entire Race's Progress
It's commonplace to celebrate the breakthrough successes of
minorities, the firsts, the bests. These people deserve our accolades,
certainly, but the success of a few doesn't mean an oppressed minority
is triumphant. We still have a long way to go. The day we stop
clapping for the minority in a "good for you, kid" condescending
manner is the day we've made real progress.
I never thought I was going to be a success. I was the
longest-produced comedy at Warner Bros. and I don't feel special. When
you have to work harder just to break even, it's hard to feel special.
I got cancelled so they could put Cavemen on the air. It doesn't make
sense.
-- George Lopez, whose The George Lopez Show was the longest-running,
most profitable all-Latino show in the history of network television
9. Thinking Cultural Exclusion Is Racism
White people are in a difficult situation in this struggle to talk
about and understand race. On the one hand, they are reprimanded for
being the majority that alienates all other races. But are minority
races guilty of the same exclusion by keeping to themselves? Or is
such elective segregation the only way to preserve community and a
strong racial identity?
I don't even like the term 'self-segregate.' Kids group together on
common lines of interest and experience. If Hispanic kids want to sit
together and speak in their mother tongue, that shouldn't bother
anyone, but they should have the same opportunity to meet other kids.
My decision to sit with people who I share things in common with is
not the same as legalized imposition of segregation.
-- Beverly Daniel Tatum, Ph. D, author of Why Are All the Black Kids
Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? and Can We Talk About Race?: And
Other Conversations in an Era of School Resegregation
10. Declaring You Are "Colorblind"
There is no such thing as colorblind (in fact, it's a long-running
Stephen Colbert gag for just that reason). It is not a racist stance
to see color, but a fact of life. Ignoring it promotes ignorance.
You cannot live in this country and not see color. We all need to step
out of the naiveté box and stop pretending it really doesn't exist. We
need to understand that we live in a world that gives certain people
privileges because of the color of their skin.
-- Oprah Winfrey
Heather Wood is co-founder and Editorial Director of SirensMag.com. To
see original article, click here.
Email Print Comment
Breaking Living Now News
Comments (46)
1 comment pending
FAQ: Comments & Moderation | FAQ: Huffpost Accounts
Post a comment
macfee (See profile | I'm a fan of macfee)
Persia is a country?
Reply | posted 02:05 am on 10/20/2007
Kansas Evans (See profile | I'm a fan of Kansas Evans)
Iran is now what was once Persia. So, for example, most Iranians are
Persians I won't appreciate being called Arabian.
Reply | Parent | posted 08:25 pm on 10/20/2007
SandraL (See profile | I'm a fan of SandraL)
The post does fall into the politically correct category of trying to
broach a serious issue.But the top ten list evokes the same
stereotypes it is highlighting. What I think she was trying to point
out was that there still exists racial stereotypes that show up in how
white people relate to Black people, when she really should havd said
people of color. Native Americans are not immigrants, and yes I DO
prefer to be called that as to not be mistaken for an Indian from
India. Racially charged language is a delicate topic. when a white
person says something to me along the lines of "You people can really
..." something or another, THIS is not a complement or even a keen
observation. It sounds and is racist. My brother cant dance. My sister
is bad at ALL sports.One of my Asian friends HATES math and science.
As much as i would like to think race isnt a big issue, it is now more
than ever.Write a post about the top 10 things you shouldnt complement
Black people for like graduating from college and knowing how to swim.
Banish 'You speak so well' from all langauge unless refering to
correctly speaking a language while on vacation. Nommo you are
correct. If I had a radio show, and said Britney was a hasbeen pop
star ho with momma issues I would definitely be seen as racist. I KNOW
better than to use this kind of language while white people often say
they dont know when they're being racist. Dont ask me to explain
chitterlings. dont like em, dont eat them ever. All Italians from New
Jersey do not have mob ties. Leave the racial jokes to Chris Rock. Oh
and I can ice skate too.
Reply | posted 01:44 pm on 10/19/2007
1will (See profile | I'm a fan of 1will)
White people cannot talk about race. Unless you buy into the whole
"The Western World is the root of all evil" thing and preach
reperations, affirmative actions and welfare than you cannot be white
and discuss race without being branded a racist.
It sucks but it's a fact.
Reply | posted 09:23 pm on 10/18/2007
rini (See profile | I'm a fan of rini)
But, Stephen Colbert doesn't "see" race.
If Stephen is colorblind, it must be right!
Colbert '08
Reply | posted 09:08 pm on 10/17/2007
dadw5boys (See profile | I'm a fan of dadw5boys)
IT IS MUCH EASIER WHEN YOU ONLY SEE PEOPLE AS PEOPLE AND NOT A COLOR.
Reply | posted 04:09 pm on 10/17/2007
Philippa (See profile | I'm a fan of Philippa)
I don't think the focus should be on the mistakes white people do when
talking about race or the mistakes black, brown, yellow people do when
talking about race. Why not just say, the mistakes WE (as one group of
people, not segregated group of people) do when talking about race?
The first mistake WE do is think that there is a SUPERIOR race.
Sociologist James Henslin contends that all races have their geniuses
and their idiots. As with language, no race is superior to another.
The gravest mistake was acting on this mistaken belief like Hitler,
the Hutus, and the Serbs in Bosnia did.
The second mistake WE do is think that "pure" races exist. Geneticists
have found, as reported by Natalie Angler for NY Times (2000), humans
are strikingly homogeneous, differing from one another only once in a
thousand subunits of the genome and that researchers at the National
Institutes of Health had put together a draft of the entire sequence
of the human genome, and the researchers had unanimously declared,
there is only one race -- the human race.
People act on these beliefs, therefore, racism exists. If WE regard
race as simply a variation of colors and shapes, the issue of racism
will not come up as exemplified by multiculturalism in Switzerland
where four ethnic groups live peacefully in political and economic
unity. Henslin goes on to say that multiculturalism has been so
successful in Switzerland that none of the ethnic groups can properly
be called a minority.
Such is what I'd like to see in America. It would be a dream come
true.
Reply | posted 02:00 pm on 10/17/2007
Valkyrie (See profile | I'm a fan of Valkyrie)
I think the biggest problem is the title of this piece. It sounds like
a "10 things to avoid at a pizza parlor" type Cosmo title. Oh, and
I've got a black friend.
Reply | posted 01:43 pm on 10/17/2007
buggin (See profile | I'm a fan of buggin)
what makes Colored offensive. NAACP national association for the
advancement of COLORED people. Or Indian for that matter. Aren't
people from India called Indians? People don't break down into
categories of black, white, asian, latino. Do Spanish people want to
be called Latino? (I mean ones actually from Spain.)
The problem with you is that color does matter and your fear of being
called racist won't allow you to see that. A white guy can't even call
another white guy ***** without getting hounded if he's heard. Yet
it's OK for black people to say *****, and call me a cracker at the
same time. That's racism. If a certain word arises race related
feeling in you then you are the racist. Dialect has nothing to do with
racism.
The real problem with racism is that it does exist and you are all
scared to death of it. Then again you are the same people that want to
protect the worlds idiots from themselves (idiot-proof the planet
syndrome) while there are perfectly capable people starving due to
over population not to mention the pollution and strain we put on our
planet.
Stereotypes
Stereotypes are real. They exist for a reason. No racist sat around
and made them up. Stereotypes have been observed and noticed by
everyone. That's not to say that all Asians are geniuses or that every
black man can "Be like Mike" but obviously a lot of them can play
basketball because we see them on TV every night almost. Obviously a
lot of Asians are smart or there wouldn't be so many of them at MIT.
You have to embrace these differences, not play them down as if they
don't exist. We are the product of our past. We became different races
of the same species and have developed differently throughout the
thousands of years we've been separated. WE ARE DIFFERENT and THAT'S
OK!!
You are racist. You just haven't realized it yet.
Reply | posted 11:23 am on 10/17/2007
snaggster (See profile | I'm a fan of snaggster)
Maybe she was referring to Native Americans not wanting to be called
"Indian". I think it's likely.
Reply | Parent | posted 12:12 pm on 10/17/2007
gallstones (See profile | I'm a fan of gallstones)
Have you asked one--an American Indian that is?
They aren't actually "native" either. They too are immigrants,
remember?
My son likes to be referred to as "Indian". He's the American "type".
Reply | Parent | posted 04:55 pm on 10/18/2007
snaggster (See profile | I'm a fan of snaggster)
Actually, I have not asked one. Nor have I offered any value
judgements about that.
I don't know what American "type" Indians think about being called
Indian, but my guess is that they don't all agree and some probably
don't like it. I suppose that next you'll tell me that they ALL
dislike being called Native American.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that there are damned few people
from India that object to being called Indian. I simply tried to
clarify that the author was not talking about people from Asia, so
give me a break.
Reply | Parent | posted 05:11 pm on 10/18/2007
HighPlainsAg (See profile | I'm a fan of HighPlainsAg)
While I'm mostly in agreement with the original post, I have to agree
that labeling "colored" and "Indian" inherently offensive is precisely
the sort of dialogue preemption white people are obsessed with. Google
"Tim Giago" for an Indian's take on "Indian." He speaks for the vast
majority of American Indians, who call themselves, personally, by
their tribal identity and generally "Indians."
Will "Indian" offend? Sure it will. And so will "'skin," Amerindian,
and Native American. Or not. If a person is unintentionally offended
in a conversation, we should have the civility to moderate our
language to avoid it. Trying to avoid it before the fact requires
common sense, not some arbitrary set of rules.
Reply | Parent | posted 02:53 pm on 10/17/2007
tao53nyc (See profile | I'm a fan of tao53nyc)
"Someday white people will be on reservations."
Yeah...on the Moon, Mars, the Asteroid Belt, the moons of Jupiter and
Saturn, etc. etc. A tragedy, to be sure.
What an absurd statement!
We're all of us, of all races, too self aware in this country, now, to
sit passively and let things just happen. There have been too many
slave trades, too many genocides, too many pogroms, too many
totalitarian dictatorships.
The only "reservation" today is one of the mind - and it's a
self-limitation. (Are you reading, neo-cons?)
Reply | posted 10:26 am on 10/17/2007
tao53nyc (See profile | I'm a fan of tao53nyc)
The other side of the Affirmative Action coin is the guy at my office
who somehow landed a decent IT job on the "diversity scholarship", but
then turned out to be blatant incompetent screw up, a scam artist with
no work ethic of any kind, and who takes dangerous short cuts that
puts the company's data security at risk, not to mention the
productivity of those he is supposed to be supporting.
Yet the powers-that-be in the company won't fire him for fear that
we'll get a visit from the Jackson-Sharpton corporate shakedown tour
bus. How many more of these dusky bozos are there? What is it costing
American business in lost income and productivity?
Reply | posted 10:20 am on 10/17/2007
beckm75 (See profile | I'm a fan of beckm75)
In my experience there are plenty of incompetent people in the
workforce and it has little to do with the color of their skin. Many
big corporations are afraid to fire ANYone for a specific reason (not
a layoff) without hard evidence (proof of theft and such). They're
afraid of getting sued by everyone, again regardless of skin color.
Just because you have a belief and have found an example that fits
your belief, does not mean that belief is validated.
Reply | Parent | posted 01:46 pm on 10/17/2007
DaCynic (See profile | I'm a fan of DaCynic)
Dude, there are plenty of dusky bozos who didn't attend school on
diversity scholarships who are costing American Business billions of
dollars.
That has nothing to do with Affirmative Action.
A bunch of unqualified people get hired because they know the right
people and/or are great interviewers.
*****, look at our president!
Why they haven't fired this guy has nothing to do with lawsuits. It's
just as hard to fire a white person/female as a minority. You need as
much of a paper trail and verifiable proof to avoid litigation.
I think your post is a great example of the simmering racism that is
still a part of our country.
Thank you, however, for candidly expressing your opinion.
Reply | Parent | posted 02:59 pm on 10/17/2007
gallstones (See profile | I'm a fan of gallstones)
I think, comparing the "cost of incompetence" of this one guy with
that of the Bush administration and congress, makes the cost of this
one guy miniscule.
What Affirimative Action program installed GW Bush to screw up (at
least) two nations?
Reply | Parent | posted 05:02 pm on 10/18/2007
Kansas Evans (See profile | I'm a fan of Kansas Evans)
The Affirmative Action program that installed Bush is called white
privilege.
Reply | Parent | posted 08:32 pm on 10/20/2007
ImmanuelGoldstein (See profile | I'm a fan of ImmanuelGoldstein)
And is Al Sharpton protecting all those white bozo's in the financial
industry who thought that perpetual housing price inflation was a
business model?
Black people get fired from jobs every day just like white people. Do
you really think Al Sharpton can run around protecting them all?
Reply | Parent | posted 02:06 pm on 10/19/2007
shawshank (See profile | I'm a fan of shawshank)
If you are unwilling to sit together and talk about your problems
(differences), you will definitely fight over it in the long run. Some
things are just too obvious to sweep under the rug. Nice post anyway.
Reply | posted 10:30 pm on 10/16/2007
CriminallySane (See profile | I'm a fan of CriminallySane)
From where I stand (seated here in the American Midwest) it no longer
makes sense to discuss it at all.
Someone, of some viewpoint or other, is bound to get loudly upset no
matter what.
It's not possible to say there are problems in the world without being
labeled a racist - so I'm not going to try. Nor am I inclined to offer
much in the way of help, understanding, or concern when it comes to
resolving those problems I can not mention. And when you tell me I am
part of a problem, what on earth makes you think I'm interested in
"solving" it for you? Tell me I don't (can't?) understand and you
remove any incentive for me to try.
I'm opting out of the discussion because there's no longer any good
reason for me to remain actively involved in it.
Reply | posted 06:25 pm on 10/16/2007
Nommo (See profile | I'm a fan of Nommo)
Why did you bother to answer in the first place. Your non-answer is
pretty much what you bothered to answer in the first place. You kind
of justified the author's contention in the first place.
Reply | Parent | posted 10:43 pm on 10/16/2007
CriminallySane (See profile | I'm a fan of CriminallySane)
Maybe some day you'll take the time and trouble to actually post a
coherent sentence. In the meantime:
I answered because the terms of the discussions about race have become
completely exclusionary. We are seeing divisions into smaller and
smaller groups, not only based on racial/ethnic criteria, but also
religion, sexual orientation, and more. And each of those groups, in
order to make its point, draws the dividing lines ever more sharply.
As someone who prefers the idea of inclusion, of the notion that we
have more common interest than division among us all, this tells me
there is no place for me in the discussion any longer. So find your
solutions, if you can, in your exclusionist dreams, without my
participation, or even attention. I have better things to worry about.
Reply | Parent | posted 11:44 am on 10/17/2007
Nommo (See profile | I'm a fan of Nommo)
Have become completely exclusionary? As of when?
When "minorities" press the issue, whites run or send SWAT teams to
quell the disturbance. We did not start the exclusion. Jim Crow laws
were not an idea that originated in our communities.
The problem with your notions of "inclusion" is that generally, we
don't want to talk to you. 400 years of no listening, some of us
actually got a clue.
Besides, how many of those mistakes are yours? The aspect of white
privilege the author is trying to point out is that whites don't have
t to think about race and that is why you think and say the stupid
things that you do. Go back and read the blog, bone up on yo' slang,
and include yourself out.
Reply | Parent | posted 12:29 pm on 10/17/2007
CriminallySane (See profile | I'm a fan of CriminallySane)
"...generally, we don't want to talk to you."
Based on what I've read from you here, thank you!
Reply | Parent | posted 01:05 pm on 10/17/2007
Nommo (See profile | I'm a fan of Nommo)
No need to thank me. None at all, despite the help you have just
received. There is little in this life more annoying than confused
white people. We've been around far too long to take seriously folk
who talk about inclusion. What you could do best is talk amongst your
own and when you come up with something useful and progressive, then
you can hawk these 'inclusion' ideas.
In the meantime, get your folk to stop bombing the dark people of the
world. Get your people to realize that it is wrong to just go dropping
bombs on people willy nilly.
Include yourself on that Florida jury that said not guilty for a bunch
of adults murdering a 14 year old Black child.
You want inclusion? Earn it.
Reply | Parent | posted 01:55 pm on 10/17/2007
tbone99 (See profile | I'm a fan of tbone99)
Exactly - thats the way most white people think -that they can retreat
to their all white enclaves and blame other people for not
understanding them ( oh yeah their feelings got hurt... other peoples
have been KILLED,ENSLAVED AND ROBBED of their country)
..Know what ? Loudness and upsetness are a road to understanding and an
attempt to communicate they aren't the goal but we gotta start
somewhere.
Reply | Parent | posted 01:28 pm on 10/18/2007
ADVOCATE4ZPG (See profile | I'm a fan of ADVOCATE4ZPG)
CS, your thoughts are shared by multiple and ever-widening circles of
the like-minded. When 'race' can be isolated in EVERY issue as
causative, progress(?) is staunched and every 'issue' is confronted
with increasing dread.....
Reply | Parent | posted 02:48 am on 10/20/2007
Nommo (See profile | I'm a fan of Nommo)
The failure was in dealing with matters previously. There is still
nothing new under the sun. Interesting how this obsession with
"inclusion" comes from the privileged ones who never have to ask, at
all.
Here is the fundamental point--you can't even protect your own rights,
never mind anyone else's.
Black people have bled and died for every little bit of progress made.
Look at what we had to do to ride on a ***** bus, for crying out
loud.
We don't need to hear from people who think that this is a game and
they don't get to play.
Your constitution, which you have never likely never fought for is
being shredded even as y'all ***** about inclusion.
Show some fight.
When you are Black and put it on the line, there is no going back. Can
you dig that?
Reply | Parent | posted 02:02 pm on 10/20/2007
OtayPanky (See profile | I'm a fan of OtayPanky)
Racism has been a fact of human life, and will continue to be a fact
of human life, for one overriding reason: we've all got monkey-brains
in addition to our fully human brains.
The specifics of whose on top, whose on the bottom, what evils have
been done, and what needs to be done to address them, will vary from
place to place, and age to age.
People of goodwill can, and will, continue to both agree and disagree
on appropriate social remedies and inter-racial rules of engagement.
Anytime you're tempted to take a sociological swipe at the problem
here, shift your focus and think about (say) the problems between the
Hutu and the Tutsi's in Rwanda, or the various pre-western tribal
cultures in America.
Same *****, different day, as the saying goes.
Unwillingness - or inability - to consider deeply the META-problem of
human existence is what leads to "10 Rules" like this blogger has
offered, which attempt to address symptoms, rather than causes.
Telling other people what's OK and not OK to think, or to say, doesn't
fix anything in the real world.
One interesting phenomenon to observe, right here on PuffHo: a lot of
liberals, lefties, progressives are no longer willing to be bullied by
raced based arguements when it comes to making their own judgements.
Recent example: the Michael Vick case. There were a small number of
bloggers and commenters trying to make the case that the near
universal outrage at his behavior was an example of racism.
That dog wouldn't hunt, to borrow an apt phrase - though years ago it
might've won adherents.
Though I'll listen to what anyone has to say, I - for one - refuse to
kow-tow to anyone's idea of rules of engagement with my fellow human
beings on any subject - including the subject of race. I'll find my
own way, thank you.
If you want to let someone else drive your bus, by all means do so.
Reply | posted 06:17 pm on 10/16/2007
SevereTireDamage (See profile | I'm a fan of SevereTireDamage)
I gotta say, I found this post a bit bizarre, but I haven't yet sorted
out why.
Reply | posted 05:48 pm on 10/16/2007
snaggster (See profile | I'm a fan of snaggster)
Okay, so #3, #4, and #5 are kind of contradictory unless one actually
accepts that bi-racial is now a "race". If it is, then I think the DNA
scientists would say we're all it. You also mix race and nationality
like a waring blender.
Reply | posted 05:26 pm on 10/16/2007
HighPlainsAg (See profile | I'm a fan of HighPlainsAg)
Fact is, "race" is not a race. The whole concept of race was invented
by racists, with absolutely no biological basis whatsoever. Stephen
Jay Gould and Ashley Montagu have done what they could to get this
fact to penetrate the "race" discussion.
Saying a person with a "black" mother and "white" father is
"bi-racial" is compounding the silliness that decided you were black
if your daddy was black, regardless of your mother's "race." Groups
may be self-defining (As in, to certain Jews, you are Jewish if your
mother was Jewish, and that's that), but treating self-definition as
categorical is a slippery slope, Ward Churchill as poster child.
Reply | Parent | posted 02:59 pm on 10/17/2007
LeftRight (See profile | I'm a fan of LeftRight)
Being Colorblind isn't a pose that you make to ignore the problems of
minorities. Being Colorblind is a fact of self existence. When I, as a
white man can look at someone, and see, not a white man, black man,
asian man, but just man, then I'VE stepped over a barrier in my own
mind. I understand that minorities have it harder than I do, I just
try to make myself better, because that's all that I can accomplish
alone.
Reply | posted 05:15 pm on 10/16/2007
Edwestern (See profile | I'm a fan of Edwestern)
This is well-intentioned but a little too biased in favor of "white
guilt", in my opinion.
When blacks use "culture-specific slang", it's "colorful" and
"fashionable"? And this "colorful cultural slang" should only be used
by blacks at their discretion, and whites should know that to say the
same words is to risk being spurned by blacks?
Why not just say, "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand"?
Pretty much the same sentiment being expressed there.
How are we supposed to engage and understand each other, when part of
the understanding is that one side is allowed and encouraged to invent
their own inner language that the other side shouldn't use or attempt
to understand?
"When you guys start using our words, that's when we know it's time to
stop using them."
That's supposed to be an example of progressive thinking?
Reply | posted 04:49 pm on 10/16/2007
DaCynic (See profile | I'm a fan of DaCynic)
I think that has to do will the appropriation of self-identity.
It's simillar, I think, to the hub-bub that sorrounded Tiger Woods
joining the PGA and entering the Masters, an old domain of white
america. The old guard feared that the inclusion of a black man would
dillute their sport. Obviously that didn't happen.
However, with cultural identity/slang, people are empowering
themselves along shared identities that they feel only their own would
understand... by others appropriating their identity, the original
meaning and power is dilluted.
How many black people do you know that say "Git 'er done!"?
Taco Bell is not Mexican food.
Reply | Parent | posted 03:41 pm on 10/17/2007
mommadona (See profile | I'm a fan of mommadona)
How racist.
Reply | posted 04:26 pm on 10/16/2007
blueraven (See profile | I'm a fan of blueraven)
Race awareness is not racism. I know the standard feel-good liberalism
tries to equate the two, but that's a racist sentiment in and of
itself. The fact my black friends are black enters into their world
view and affects their existence. I should act like it doesn't exist
for them?
Reply | Parent | posted 05:35 pm on 10/16/2007
mommadona (See profile | I'm a fan of mommadona)
Her pointing it out in such a way is racist.
Her points are 'assumed' to pertain to whites only.
Some of the most racist people I know are hispanic. That's just the
way they are as a person.
So, these points would be well-pointed out to my friend just as well.
Reply | Parent | posted 01:57 am on 10/20/2007
zizyphus (See profile | I'm a fan of zizyphus)
The fact is whites, caucasians, whatever we call ourselves, are a
minority in the world. Right now, we have a lot of wealth and power,
but all things change in time. As a friend of mine once commented
years ago, "Someday white people will be on reservations."
Living in Hawaii, I live and work with people of many diverse
ethnicities. What I have seen is that the more races in a person's
background, the more beautiful they appear. My Chinese friend just
brought over her first grandchild- this little beauty is Chinese,
Jewish, Polish, Irish,German, Indian, Tahitian and French. This type
of blending is not unusual here, with the result that Hawaii has the
most attractive people in the world. Aloha!
Reply | posted 04:21 pm on 10/16/2007
1will (See profile | I'm a fan of 1will)
Except for the huge Samoan chicks and the Meth Heads.
Reply | Parent | posted 12:55 pm on 10/17/2007
Lon (See profile | I'm a fan of Lon)
If Affirmative Action never had anything to do with anyone's sucess,
what would be the point of it?
I can see the point that you are trying to make. But that seems a
somewhat puzzling way to make it. A better way would be to say either
that Affirmative Action is not enough of a boost to get an unqualified
candidate to the top (although Clarence Thomas would seem to be a
counterexample to that) or perhaps better, "Even with Affirmative
Action the path to the top of minorities tends to be harder than for
that of white men." This latter claim seems to both be true and the
relevant point.
Reply | posted 04:10 pm on 10/16/2007
QueenCeleste (See profile | I'm a fan of QueenCeleste)
Lon, your point on Affirmative Action is right on the money!
I found this whole post somewhat racist. Has anyone seen "Ten Mistakes
Black People Make When Talking About Race" posts? I thought not. I am
so weary of writers (and others) making assumptions about how white
people view issues regarding race.
Reply | Parent | posted 09:49 pm on 10/16/2007
Nommo (See profile | I'm a fan of Nommo)
We don't think about race and we don't make those mistakes. If you are
Black and make a mistake, you could wind up dead by police action.
Besides, the author is not Black, what would she know about that?
Write your own.
Reply | Parent | posted 12:31 pm on 10/17/2007
OtayPanky (See profile | I'm a fan of OtayPanky)
Nommo: We don't think about race
===
Having read a bunch of Nommo's posts, I'd have to agree that he
doesn't think about race...not even a little bit.
===
Nommo: ...and we don't make those mistakes.
===
Once again, I stand up in the congregation of the beloved and bear
witness to the racial infallability of my brother.
Reply | Parent | posted 10:33 am on 10/18/2007
Post a comment
You must be logged in and your account must be approved for you to be
able to post comments. Log in now or sign up for an account.
Bloggers Index
Read All Posts by
Heather Wood
Related News
Living Now
"Womenomics": The Way Of The Future
Living Now
Curb Your Cubicle Bad Habits: How To Eat Healthy At Work
Living Now
Slideshow: Stop "The Posh"!
Related Blog Posts
Living Now: John Lundberg
Why You Should Read Poetry...Yes, Poetry
Living Now: Allison Gilbert
40 Days and Counting: My Journey to Prevent Ovarian Cancer
Living Now: Lesley M. M. Blume
Creative Solutions For Hair-Raising Moments
Related Tags
discussing race
race
Racial Attitudes
Racial Comments
racial identity
racial politics
Top Living Now Tags
The Full Life
fashion
Mind.Body.Soul
Oprah Winfrey
poll
Make A Difference
relationships
health
slideshow
healthy eating
Top News
Top Blog Posts
Politics: Evangelical Leader: Rudy Must Pledge To Appoint
Anti-Abortion Attorney General
Business: UAW Locals Reject Chrysler Pact
Living Now: On The Virtues Of Going Gray: A Q & A With Author Anne
Kreamer
Media: Moonves: CBS Is Just Ducky, Despite Absence Of New Hits
Entertainment: Jerry Seinfeld On Scientology: "It Was Very Helpful. I
Took A Couple Of Courses"
Ads by Google
Off Road Racing Adventure
Drive Brand New Baja Champ Trucks Massive Suspension & Horsepower
www.TheBajaExp.com
Interracial Marriage Site
Find Thousand of Members Online Now Interracial Dating Online. Sign
Up!
www.InterracialDateLink.com
InterracialPeopleMeet
Official Site. Free to Join. Meet 1000's of Sexy Interracial singles
www.InterracialPeopleMeet.com
Home
Politics
Media
Business
Entertainment
LivingNow
Advertise | Login | Make HuffPost your Home Page | RSS | Jobs | FAQ:
Comments & Moderation | FAQ: Huffpost Accounts | Contact Us
Copyright © 2007 HuffingtonPost.com, Inc. | User Agreement | Privacy |
Comment Policy | Powered by Movable Type
.
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 07:32:23 PM |
|
|
Black people have a wide array of colorful terms that come in and go
out of style and can be used in a myriad of different ways. White
people, it will be extremely tempting to try and incorporate these
terms into your everyday language. Don't. When you guys start using
our words, that's when we know it's time to stop using them.
- Nick Adams, author Making Friends With Black People <<
lots of good information, but the above advice is outdated and
insulting to non-african americans.
Black culture *is* american culture, and "white people" or non-Blacks
have every right to use Black idioms in an honest manner.
what i don't approve of is "white" folks making up fake "ignorant"
language and attributing it to Blacks.
this is a complex subject, but good for huffington post for
attempting to breach it.
haters are losing, and that's why they're mad!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Your name" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
26 Oct 2007 11:51:24 AM |
|
|
Knowledge <knowledg_e@charter.net> wrote in
news:tqnlh3d9clirv3g9cj1tv4t41099h6hrhq@4ax.com:
10 Mistakes White People Make When Talking About Race
Using the term race.
A term that has been shown to be invalid for humans
much as be are wont to believe there aren't differnet human races(species)
There is only one - Homo Sapens Sapiens, The less we propagate and
perpetrate this fallacy the better.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Malrassic Park" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
26 Oct 2007 02:19:18 PM |
|
|
On 26 Oct 2007 16:51:24 GMT, Your name <rhomb@dras.ca> wrote:
Knowledge <knowledg_e@charter.net> wrote in
news:tqnlh3d9clirv3g9cj1tv4t41099h6hrhq@4ax.com:
10 Mistakes White People Make When Talking About Race
Using the term race.
A term that has been shown to be invalid for humans
much as be are wont to believe there aren't differnet human races(species)
There is only one - Homo Sapens Sapiens, The less we propagate and
perpetrate this fallacy the better.
That is a political statement. However, biologically speaking, even
bird species come in races. For example:
House Finch, red race
http://www.hoganphoto.com/House_finch_m.tif
House Finch, yellow race
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/39/116232234_7f922a67b6.jpg
Northern Flicker, red-shafted race
http://www.johnsonmill.com/images/Northern%20Flicker.jpg
Northern Flicker, yellow-shafted race
http://www.surfbirds.com/media/gallery_photos/20050706080334.jpg
What does "race" mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race
"The term 'race' refers to the concept of dividing people into
populations or groups on the basis of various sets of characteristics
and beliefs about common ancestry. The most widely used human racial
categories are based on visible traits (especially skin color, facial
features and hair texture), and self-identification...Some argue that
although 'race' is a valid taxonomic concept in other species, it
cannot be applied to humans."
If you have a problem with wikipedia mentioning the idea of human
racial categories, then you can always debate the issue (assuming it
is an "issue") on Wikipedia's "discussion" page for that entry.
--
Yes, we speak English!
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Smokie Darling Annie" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 09:57:37 AM |
|
|
On Oct 20, 11:15 pm, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-wood/10-mistakes-white-people-_...
5. Using Outdated Terms When Describing Different Races
Oriental, Colored, and Indian went out of style
As Russell Means says, "Anyone born in America is a Native American,
I'm an Indian." (me too) Guess maybe whites aren't the only ones
making mistakes.
a long time ago; in
fact, they're considered offensive. So, too, is lumping every
Spanish-speaking person into a general category like "Mexican" or any
Arab-looking person as "Persian" (it's a specific country, people).
Feeling the need to identify is a nervous reaction we have when faced
with issues of race. Black, white, Asian and Latino/a are generally
accepted, but when in doubt, how about you just call someone by their
actual name. Who says we have to classify ourselves all the time
anyway?
.
|
|
|
| User: "MC" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 10:02:41 AM |
|
|
In article <1192978657.445560.266900@t8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
"Smokie Darling (Annie)" <Barnabus1993@yahoo.com> wrote:
5. Using Outdated Terms When Describing Different Races
Oriental, Colored, and Indian went out of style
As Russell Means says, "Anyone born in America is a Native American,
I'm an Indian." (me too) Guess maybe whites aren't the only ones
making mistakes.
I recently asked a Native Canadian/First Nations/Aboriginal person what
I should call him and he said "I'm an Indian."
--
"Anybody can direct. There are only 11 good writers."
‹ Mel Brooks
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "USA1st" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 10:15:39 PM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 1:15 am, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-wood/10-mistakes-white-people-_...
10 Mistakes White People Make When Talking About Race
Posted October 16, 2007 | 04:00 PM (EST)
Read More: discussing race, race, Racial Attitudes, Racial Comments,
racial identity, racial politics, Breaking Living Now News
Over on SirensMag.com, we're in the midst of a race-themed issue.
Heavy/scary, I know. But I can't tell you how much the act of
discourse about this all-important topic has opened our eyes - and
those of our readers. But not all discourse is good discourse (see
idiotic political blabbermouths of late). It's easy to botch an
important discussion about race with fear, ignorance, or just plain
silliness. Uninformed--or even overly politically correct--white
people are the major offenders, sure, but anyone without adequate
information can be guilty of sounding like a racist or an idiot (wait,
that's redundant). With the help of some favorite (and vocal)
celebrities and writers, here are 10 things not to do when trying to
have an intellectual discussion about race--which, to be clear, you
should do. But first learn from these mistakes:
Email
Print
Comment
1. Thinking It's Not OK to Talk About It
Race is such a touchy topic because it is often associated with all of
the negative history and oppression of minorities in this country.
Blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans share a history of
physical and social abuse at the hand of the white majority. Yes, that
leads to anger and distrust, feelings so strong that they've survived
for centuries. But the only way to bridge the gap and move forward as
a more unified society is to talk about it: all of it.
We are supposed to be engaged in a cultural conversation about race -
a dialogue largely taking place on television and at the movies. We've
traded unquestioned racism for a twisted multicultural correctness.
Everything is celebrated, nothing can be discussed. We seem to want to
live in an imaginary world without racism, where we celebrate
differences but never base our beliefs on them."
- Sallie Tisdale, author of The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Harvest Moon
and Lot's Wife, Stepping Westward and Talk Dirty to Me
2. Using Culture-Specific Slang to Relate to Other Races
K-Fed, you ain't. And you just shouldn't try to be--ever.
Black people have a wide array of colorful terms that come in and go
out of style and can be used in a myriad of different ways. White
people, it will be extremely tempting to try and incorporate these
terms into your everyday language. Don't. When you guys start using
our words, that's when we know it's time to stop using them.
- Nick Adams, author Making Friends With Black People
3. Assuming Biracial People Identify More with One Side Than the Other
The majority race in America today isn't white, black, or even Latino.
It's biracial. And this will only increase with each successive
generation. We're a society that loves to check off boxes, but the
greater challenge is to stop seeing people as shades and start knowing
them for who they are.
As the child of a black man and white woman, born in the melting pot
of Hawaii, with a sister who is half-Indonesian, but who is usually
mistaken for Mexican, and a brother-in-law and niece of Chinese
descent, with some relatives who resemble Margaret Thatcher and others
who could pass for Bernie Mac, I never had the option of restricting
my loyalties on the basis of race or measuring my worth on the basis
of tribe.
- Barack Obama, Kenyan/White American, Illinois Senator, presidential
candidate
4. Thinking Race Is Only an Issue for Minorities
The tendency is to think of "race" as something that only
black/brown/Asian/Hispanic people have - whereas "white" is the
default setting ( i.e., we say "American" to mean white, but "Black
American," "Asian-American," etc. to identify other Americans of
different colors). Everyone has a race. This is a nation of
immigrants, from England, Ireland, France, Germany, Poland, Africa,
Asia, and beyond.
To be white is to have a race and a racial perspective as well, and
that needs much greater acknowledgment in our culture. Discussions of
race will always be limited until white Americans can have an honest,
open discussion about what it means to be white in America - the good
and the bad.
- Molly Faulkner-Bond, biracial Harvard grad who explored issues of
interracial friendship in the current Sirens issue
5. Using Outdated Terms When Describing Different Races
Oriental, Colored, and Indian went out of style a long time ago; in
fact, they're considered offensive. So, too, is lumping every
Spanish-speaking person into a general category like "Mexican" or any
Arab-looking person as "Persian" (it's a specific country, people).
Feeling the need to identify is a nervous reaction we have when faced
with issues of race. Black, white, Asian and Latino/a are generally
accepted, but when in doubt, how about you just call someone by their
actual name. Who says we have to classify ourselves all the time
anyway?
I had to deal with my prejudices. I had to learn to ignore the
taunting labels of other blacks who had everything figured out,
including how I should act according to the color of my skin. I am
human first, and that's where my efforts have gone.
-- Donna Leonard Conger, author of Don't Call Me African-American
6. Believing Stereotypes
Yes, black Americans dominate most sports, more Asians are accepted
into MIT than any other race, and Latinos have been known to tear up a
dance floor. Though some race-specific stereotypes seem like positive
assumptions, imagine yourself on the other end, with high expectations
placed on your shoulders simply because of a scrutinized minority.
White people don't have the pressure to be the best in math or sports;
they just have to be good enough. Everyone else should get the same
slack.
One could say (I don't) that stereotypes are benevolent: All Asians
are smart and hard-working. All Asian men are geeky engineers with
high-flood-water pants and calculators on their belts. All Asian women
are either passive, submissive chrysanthemums or seductive,
manipulative hotties. I suppose it's true that these aren't hugely
destructive stereotypes, but they are stereotypes nonetheless, and
they can have hurtful consequences. I think to get rid of these
stereotypes, Asian Americans are going to have to be more vocal and
political. The same goes for other races.
-- Don Lee, author of Yellow: Stories
7. Thinking Affirmative Action Has Anything to Do With Someone's
Success
One of the most controversial issues of the past 20 years is
affirmative action, a term widely over-used and often misunderstood.
It was supposed to explain educational and hiring policies put in
place to encourage more diversity on college campuses and in the
public sector. The naysayers made it sound like minorities were given
hand-outs, which has resulted in an assumption, even years after most
of those progressive policies have been killed, that a successful
minority must have been given an easy ride. How about you ask Oprah if
she was given an easy ride when networks constantly told her she
looked and sounded too "ethnic" early in her career? Do you think the
late CBS anchor Ed Bradley was given a break when he accidentally
became the first African-American White House correspondent, a result
of his network sending him to cover what they thought would be a Jimmy
Carter loss? And of these two "View" hosts, who do you think earned
their coveted role more: Lisa Ling, a trained journalist, or Elizabeth
Hasselbeck, a "Survivor" contestant?
A white boy that makes C's in college can make it to the White House.
-- Chris Rock
8. Assuming One Man's Success =3D An Entire Race's Progress
It's commonplace to celebrate the breakthrough successes of
minorities, the firsts, the bests. These people deserve our accolades,
certainly, but the success of a few doesn't mean an oppressed minority
is triumphant. We still have a long way to go. The day we stop
clapping for the minority in a "good for you, kid" condescending
manner is the day we've made real progress.
I never thought I was going to be a success. I was the
longest-produced comedy at Warner Bros. and I don't feel special. When
you have to work harder just to break even, it's hard to feel special.
I got cancelled so they could put Cavemen on the air. It doesn't make
sense.
-- George Lopez, whose The George Lopez Show was the longest-running,
most profitable all-Latino show in the history of network television
9. Thinking Cultural Exclusion Is Racism
White people are in a difficult situation in this struggle to talk
about and understand race. On the one hand, they are reprimanded for
being the majority that alienates all other races. But are minority
races guilty of the same exclusion by keeping to themselves? Or is
such elective segregation the only way to preserve community and a
strong racial identity?
I don't even like the term 'self-segregate.' Kids group together on
common lines of interest and experience. If Hispanic kids want to sit
together and speak in their mother tongue, that shouldn't bother
anyone, but they should have the same opportunity to meet other kids.
My decision to sit with people who I share things in common with is
not the same as legalized imposition of segregation.
-- Beverly Daniel Tatum, Ph. D, author of Why Are All the Black Kids
Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? and Can We Talk About Race?: And
Other Conversations in an Era of School Resegregation
10. Declaring You Are "Colorblind"
There is no such thing as colorblind (in fact, it's a long-running
Stephen Colbert gag for just that reason). It is not a racist stance
to see color, but a fact of life. Ignoring it promotes ignorance.
You cannot live in this country and not see color. We all need to step
out of the naivet=E9 box and stop pretending it really doesn't exist. We
need to understand that ...
read more =BB
I guess only white people are racist.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 02:42:38 AM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 2:15 pm, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
10 Mistakes White People Make When Talking
About Race
There is only one mistake, because there is only one race, its called
the human race.
Skin color and geographical accident's of birth are not rational
grounds to discriminate, however one's culture can be.
Since when does skin colour change the immorality of a thug, a rapist,
a murderer?
There is no difference between a white skinned socialist come
communist and a yellow or black skinned socialist, all deserve to be
treated as envy ridden retarded parasitical scum.
Black skinned religionists are as silly and as irrational as yellow
and white skinned religionists.
Black skinned pedophiles are as repugnant as yellow skinned, white
skinned and church cloth wearing pedophiles.
Lazy bastards are distinguished as non-productive, they come in black
skin white skin and yellow skin versions.
So stop blaming others and looking for excuses for your own bloody
ignorance.
You're stupid and your skin colour has played no part in it.
Michael Gordge
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
22 Oct 2007 05:31:04 AM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 3:42?am, Michael Gordge <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
There is no difference between a white skinned socialist come
communist and a yellow or black skinned socialist, all deserve to be
treated as envy ridden retarded parasitical scum.>>
Is your house empty? Must be, cause everything we own seems to be
made by the communists these days. I bet you oown stock, too. Even
you food is served by China...
seems we just can separate out the red, these days. course red does
stand for many things beside just greed.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Knowledge" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 07:21:11 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:42:38 -0700, Michael Gordge
<mikegordge@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
On Oct 21, 2:15 pm, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
10 Mistakes White People Make When Talking
About Race
There is only one mistake, because there is only one race, its called
the human race.
Skin color and geographical accident's of birth are not rational
grounds to discriminate, however one's culture can be.
Since when does skin colour change the immorality of a thug, a rapist,
a murderer?
There is no difference between a white skinned socialist come
communist and a yellow or black skinned socialist, all deserve to be
treated as envy ridden retarded parasitical scum.
Black skinned religionists are as silly and as irrational as yellow
and white skinned religionists.
Black skinned pedophiles are as repugnant as yellow skinned, white
skinned and church cloth wearing pedophiles.
Lazy bastards are distinguished as non-productive, they come in black
skin white skin and yellow skin versions.
So stop blaming others and looking for excuses for your own bloody
ignorance.
You're stupid and your skin colour has played no part in it.
Michael Gordge
So you falsely say! :-)
Racism and "Preferential Treatment"
by the Numbers
By Tim Wise
Association for White Anti-Racist Education (AWARE)
Anyone who does political analysis, advocacy or organizing knows that
folks on all sides of an issue have "numbers." Trotting out statistics
to prove one's point about something is a well-accepted practice, and
yet rarely do we stop to think about what certain numbers mean: be
they used by "our side," or by political adversaries.
As someone who works full-time doing antiracism work, I constantly run
across those whose "numbers" are thrown at me in an attempt to prove
two things in particular: 1) that racist attitudes among whites are
virtually nonexistent nowadays; and, 2) that the only real
discrimination still in evidence is that dreaded "reverse" kind, as in
so-called affirmative action "preferences." Herein, I would like to
address both claims, with reference to numbers, and what they do (and
don't) mean.
With regards to the first issue-white racial attitudes-my general
response has always been that no matter how much improved are the
views expressed to pollsters, the real issue is institutional
inequity; and that is something that requires no overt bigotry for its
perpetuation. While I still believe this is an important point, I've
also come to realize that in some ways it's a cop out: after all,
there are real people behind those institutions, making real
decisions, and others who don't make decisions themselves but
nonetheless collaborate with the system as it is. It is with that in
mind that I decided to look a bit more deeply at the numbers used by
folks like D'Souza, Abigail and Stephan Thernstrom, and others to
"prove" how much more tolerant are today's white folks.
Although there have been many polls in recent years indicating that
between 30-70% of all whites believe blacks are generally lazy, less
determined to succeed, and more violent and aggressive, those who deny
the persistence of racism tend to ignore these numbers, focusing
instead on the one or two surveys which bolster their position. So,
for example, I have heard it said with great pride by many race
commentators on the right, that only a very small percentage-perhaps
5% -of whites now say that blacks and other people of color are
"inferior races" in the biological sense.
This is of course an improvement since the 1940's, at which time a
clear plurality, or even the majority of whites would have responded
positively to this Bell Curve-ish proposition. However, a few things
should be remembered: first, there are still obviously enough people
willing to entertain the notion of biological determinism so as to
make The Bell Curve a best seller (not in the 1940's after all, but in
1995), and secondly, even if we accept the 5% figure as an accurate
reflection of what people think, we should be clear on just how many
folks that represents. We're so used to hearing percentages, that
often if we hear that "only" 5% think something, we think it to be a
fringe viewpoint, hardly worthy of concern. But when we look deeper-or
simply pull out the 1998 Statistical Abstracts of the United States-it
becomes clear that 5% of the white population holding essentially
Hitlerian views about racial inferiority/superiority is more of a big
deal than previously believed.
Even if we subtract from the white population totals all whom the
Census Bureau dubs "Hispanic whites," leaving only those whom folks
like David Duke might consider sufficiently Caucasian, there are
nearly 200 million whites in the U.S. today. Thus, 5% of the white
population is approximately 10 million persons; in this instance ten
million persons who adhere to the purest racism imaginable, and would
be considered racist under pretty much anyone's definition.
Well just how many people is that? Is it really such a small group
that we shouldn't concern ourselves with it? Is it so small that
people of color who concern themselves with ongoing discrimination and
unequal treatment must be paranoid or overreacting? Hardly. Compare
these 10 million with a number of other population cohorts, many or
most of which the right (and others) are worried about, and in some
cases about which they are apoplectic. Consider that 10 million overt
white racists is:
twice the number of "illegal immigrants" (approximately 5 million)
currently residing in the U.S;
at least five times the estimated size of the so-called "hardcore
underclass," (between 1.5-2 million) about which the right is
constantly in an uproar;
more than three times the number of black single-moms with children
(about 3 million), who, according to contemporary political discourse
are responsible for many of the nation's worst problems;
40% more than the total number of persons who will commit a violent
crime this year (roughly 7 million);
1000 times more than all the drunk drivers who will be involved in a
fatal crash this year (less than 11,000);
one-third more than all the babies born to teenagers in the last
twenty years (about 6.5 million);
10 times more than the number of persons who will be reported for
abusing or neglecting a child this year;
more than five times the number of persons currently in jail or prison
nationwide;
3.5 times more than the total number of federal government employees
put together (and you know what a problem people think those
"bureaucrats" are);
four times the number of single-moms receiving cash "welfare"
payments, even before recent "reforms" bumped tens of thousands off
the rolls;
And for a few final points of comparison, 10 million overt white
racists is:
twice the number of whites who are officially unemployed, and equal to
the number who are actually out of work or underemployed in today's
economy; and,
more than all the cashiers, secretaries, police officers, waiters,
waitresses and cooks in the U.S. combined;
and it is more than all the farmers, lawyers, telephone operators,
child care workers, cops and classroom teachers combined.
In short, "only" 5% of the white population is a lot of people, so
that even by the most optimistic assessment of white racial attitudes,
there are literally millions holding overtly racist views. When
combined with those whose views are less vicious, but nonetheless
hostile, and those who aren't hostile at all, but who simply refuse to
speak up against those who are, it becomes clear just how real a
problem racism-even on the purely attitudinal level-remains today.
As for the second issue-so-called preferential treatment-numbers again
are important. Although opponents of affirmative action typically shy
away from numbers here-choosing instead to focus on individual (often
inaccurate) anecdotes about victims of reverse discrimination-those of
us who fight for racial equity tend to offer up a bevy of statistics
indicating the real nature of preferential treatment which has worked
to the benefit of whites.
And make no mistake, showing the degree of preferential treatment
afforded whites-both historically and today-is exactly what we need to
be doing. The problem about which I have become acutely aware,
however, is that numbers alone are not enough: mainly because we often
don't explain them in a way which makes sense to people.
For years I have lectured to students and community groups about the
multitude of preference programs available to whites throughout the
years which have been largely off limits to people of color. My hope
was that by doing so, I could place in context the discussion of
"preferential treatment," being offered up by the right, and thus
undermine some of its ability to persuade. Although my efforts were
sometimes successful, it was only when I began to " break down" some
of the numbers I was using, that clear majorities of the often hostile
white audiences would begin to get that puzzled look which lets you
know they are having to think about something for the first time.
For example, for years now I have used the government's FHA (Federal
Housing Administration) loan guarantee program as an example of
preference for whites which still has effects in the here-and-now. As
most of you know, from 1934-1962, the FHA guaranteed and underwrote
over $120 billion worth of home equity for over 35 million white
families. Due to racially-restrictive underwriting policies, this font
of public largesse was virtually off limits to families of color, who
generally couldn't receive FHA loans for homes in white suburbs. This
process entrenched residential segregation which then contributed to
educational and employment inequity for persons of color.
This much is known, and irrefutable, as is the fact that the value of
that home equity-which is in the process of being handed down to
today's white baby-boomers or their children-is now approximately $10
trillion. But when I would talk in these terms-"millions" of white
families, and "hundreds of billions" or "trillions" of dollars-it was
obvious that many a person's eyes were glazing. Fact is, folks simply
don't have a reference point for numbers that big, and so they tend to
go in one ear and out the other. So about a year ago, I turned again
to the Statistical Abstracts, and was able to cobble together the
following comparisons, which help to put the magnitude of this one
program's preferences in clear perspective:
$10 trillion dollars (the current value of the housing equity loaned
preferentially to whites throughout the middle of this century) is:
More than all the outstanding mortgage debt, all the credit card debt,
all the savings account assets, all the money in IRA's and 401k
retirement plans, all the annual profits for U.S. manufacturers, and
our entire merchandise trade deficit combined.
Now read that again. The first time I ever shared this information
with an audience (and I'm not talking about a left audience, I mean
just typical not-all-that-political students, and their professors),
the sound of disbelief emanating from their lungs was more than a
little noticeable-and in a way that it had never been when I had
shared the numbers in an abstract, purely intellectual way. Now the
face of preference had a context; one that they could understand; and
one which makes the claims of the opponents of racial equity seem
petty and disingenuous even to many of the most skeptical listeners.
The lessons of this already too lengthy commentary are simple: make
sure to deconstruct (for lack of a better term) the statistics offered
by political commentators, to find what's really underneath the
surface; and learn to break down the statistics you use in your own
work, so as to give them real meaning for people. Given the
appropriately cynical attitude many have towards what any political
commentator or activist has to say, it is not enough to try and win
debating points about whose percentages are better. Rather, it is
necessary to make folks understand the faces behind the numbers, and
the real-life impact of political decisions. The Statistical Abstracts
can't do that. Only we can.
"The worst trait in the Caucasian ethnic groups is their
belief in the necessity of ethnic hatred, greed,
roguery, deception, lying, and using extreme violence
against innocent populations as a means of hue-man uplift"
Knowledge@charter.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
23 Oct 2007 03:22:07 PM |
|
|
For years I have lectured to students and community groups about the
multitude of preference programs available to whites throughout the
years which have been largely off limits to people of color. My hope
was that by doing so, I could place in context the discussion of
"preferential treatment," being offered up by the right, and thus
undermine some of its ability to persuade. Although my efforts were
sometimes successful, it was only when I began to " break down" some
of the numbers I was using, that clear majorities of the often hostile
white audiences would begin to get that puzzled look which lets you
know they are having to think about something for the first time.
Are you sure that "puzzled look" was self-realization or had they
zoned out?
I'm sure you are an expert on "spinning" numbers. And while some of
the numbers you gave our meaningless and some are wrong (e.g. between
30% and 70%??? why not say between 1% and 99% OR 5 million illegal
immigrants?? most people peg this number at 12 million), this does not
address the central point. What is it that you want?
Do you desire some specific race based treatment OR are you trying to
tell people how to think? In my mind you are free to be an advocate
for either one (the key word being free - don't ask me to pay for it).
Personally I find value judgments based upon skin color to be stupid
and intellectually dishonest. Yet I realize this sort of things
happens. I don't believe there is any government conspiracy to
perpetuate this sort of things. I think they best way to combat this
is for parents to train their children not to tolerate it. Would you
say this is sufficient?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 04:41:58 PM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 9:21 pm, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
As someone who works full-time doing antiracism
work,
I presume you're doing this "work" (which its not, its feeding a
poison) voluntarially, because its hard to imagine anyone stupied
enough to pay you for it, unless of course you're part of them, the
silly socialist governments and the terminal cancerous repugnant
monsters they have become.
the real issue is institutional
inequity;
Nope the ONLY possible issue is human irrationality. So why be part of
it and promote it, unless, you're being paid by stolen money
(taxation) to be a part of it?
Although there have been many polls in recent years indicating that
between 30-70% of all whites believe blacks are
generally lazy,
You're a pollster aren't you? You're feeding this crap, shame on you.
Michael Gordge
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kris Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 05:15:45 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gordge" <mikegordge@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1193002918.676454.115970@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
stupied
I saw it first. Skitt's Law!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Balsina Twyst" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 05:39:14 PM |
|
|
***
Dr. James Watson's veiled remarks on comparative racial intelligence
will gain more clarity, probably in this decade.
Once the scientific community definitively finds and traces the genes
among modern humans that were carried during the "great migration"
from Africa north to the modern Middle- and Far East and Europe
several hundred-thousand years ago, the result will reflect that,
indeed, modern Sub-Saharan Africans generally possess a slightly but
indisputably lower average intelligence than is found in certain out-
of-African populations.
This research has been ongoing for some years.
The findings thus will reflect a continental-regional differential as
much as a "racial" disparity.
The research will support the current hypothesis that those peoples
who elected to migrate to the north and out of Africa carried genetic
characteristics more common among adventurous, inventive, and risk-
taking humans. Those humans that remained in Africa generally were
largely more conservative and less creative and daring than their
departed brethren. Thus a small but indisputable difference in IQ
will be established, with certain modern Europeans and populations in
Southeast and Far-Eastern Asia "scoring" above a majority of their
modern Sub-Saharan "counterparts."
As they say, "It is just a matter of time."
***
.
|
|
|
| User: "Your name" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
26 Oct 2007 12:10:14 PM |
|
|
Balsina Twyst <jismquiff@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1193006354.161145.121750@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
The research will support the current hypothesis that those peoples
who elected to migrate to the north and out of Africa carried genetic
characteristics more common among adventurous, inventive, and risk-
taking humans. Those humans that remained in Africa generally were
largely more conservative and less creative and daring than their
departed brethren. Thus a small but indisputable difference in IQ
will be established, with certain modern Europeans and populations in
Southeast and Far-Eastern Asia "scoring" above a majority of their
modern Sub-Saharan "counterparts."
How about this hypothesis{
The climatic conditions changed quite drastically, the weather system
became much hotter and drier, longer distances had to be travelled to find
more food, there was less cover, so were more exposed to predators.
There was more clashes over resources .
The more aggressive, dominant and stronger groups took the best of the
litle that was available.
The weaker groups were being pushed more and more to the Margins just like
the Neanderthal before them.
Hunger and lack of resources forced them to seek out unclaimed territory.
So the More Dominant humans stayed in Africa and the weaker out of
neccesity left.
Subsequent adaptions were as a result in living in a different enviroment
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "not the moderator" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When TalkingAbout Race |
21 Oct 2007 11:58:15 PM |
|
|
snip..
As they say, "It is just a matter of time."
***
In other works no matter how you cut it, Blacks are dumber than the
other races.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
22 Oct 2007 05:49:16 AM |
|
|
On Oct 22, 12:58?am, not the moderator <phanta...@que.mx> wrote:
snip..
As they say, "It is just a matter of time."
***
In other works no matter how you cut it, Blacks are dumber than the
other races.
seems to me god wasn't prejudice when he made dumb and dumber: black
and white. that is with values being what they are in a world of the
red and the green...!
happy halloween, btw.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 09:25:03 PM |
|
|
On Oct 22, 7:15 am, "Kris Baker" <kris.ba...@prodigyyy.net> wrote:
"Michael Gordge" <mikegor...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1193002918.676454.115970@e34g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
stupied
I saw it first. Skitt's Law!
Will ewe ever contribute anything worth while?
MG
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Michael Gordge" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 04:02:16 PM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 9:21 pm, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
So you falsely say! :-(
You are stupid and you are using your skin colour as your excuse.
MG
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kris Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 04:09:38 PM |
|
|
"Michael Gordge" <mikegordge@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1193000536.510234.205820@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 21, 9:21 pm, Knowledge <knowled...@charter.net> wrote:
So you falsely say! :-(
You are stupid and you are using your skin colour as your excuse.
MG
Performance art, to convince you they're one thing....while they're
actually prejudiced against that very thing.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 04:26:53 PM |
|
|
I may soon be embroiled in a racism-based lawsuit. My NYC apartment
lease was just renewed, as was my across-the-hall neighbor's. Mine
went up minimally, hers went up a lot. The dif? She's black and I'm
white. She's a lawyer and a good tenant - totally upscale - and all
we can think is it's the fucken race thing.
This building is in Harlem. You know what? All I have to do here is
be white. Everyone else has to work 24/7.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
21 Oct 2007 07:40:19 PM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 2:26 pm, "marybo...@verizon.net" <marybo...@rcn.com> wrote:
I may soon be embroiled in a racism-based lawsuit. My NYC apartment
lease was just renewed, as was my across-the-hall neighbor's. Mine
went up minimally, hers went up a lot. The dif? She's black and I'm
white. She's a lawyer and a good tenant - totally upscale - and all
we can think is it's the fucken race thing.
This building is in Harlem. You know what? All I have to do here is
be white. Everyone else has to work 24/7.
marybones, thanks for being honest.
a lot of trash want to play the victim up in here and elsewhere,
while criticizing non-"whites" for doing the same.
we can be honest about the system and how it's "un" balanced without
losing intellectual credibility or invalidating the very real
struggles of the dominant "race".
everyone has problems!
fools need to quit with all the hostility and resentment.
it's not a contest to see which group is the rottenest!
we all can do better.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
22 Oct 2007 12:14:43 PM |
|
|
On Oct 21, 8:40 pm, wrote:
On Oct 21, 2:26 pm, "marybo...@verizon.net" <marybo...@rcn.com> wrote:
I may soon be embroiled in a racism-based lawsuit. My NYC apartment
lease was just renewed, as was my across-the-hall neighbor's. Mine
went up minimally, hers went up a lot. The dif? She's black and I'm
white. She's a lawyer and a good tenant - totally upscale - and all
we can think is it's the fucken race thing.
This building is in Harlem. You know what? All I have to do here is
be white. Everyone else has to work 24/7.
marybones, thanks for being honest.
a lot of trash want to play the victim up in here and elsewhere,
while criticizing non-"whites" for doing the same.
we can be honest about the system and how it's "un" balanced without
losing intellectual credibility or invalidating the very real
struggles of the dominant "race".
everyone has problems!
fools need to quit with all the hostility and resentment.
it's not a contest to see which group is the rottenest!
we all can do better.
And if I can elaborate...
this wonderful woman and I have more in common with each other than
with the people we moved in with. She and I are upper middle class,
smart, etc - and our attitudeto this crap is like, "In THIS day and
age!?" My pain is like Still? - but hers - *****, it's unbearable. It
just happened to her.
So she wrote a stern letter to the Powers That Be, senators and the
like, and I'll go to the mat for her, not like she's a friend, but
Just Because - but you know? She has a life, an 11-y-o daughter, and
a lawsuit takes up ALL your time. She's gonna move instead, and I
can't blame her.
In This Day And Age.
Arthur Ashe said something like this: "Everything I've done, all the
goals I've accomplished - nothing has been more difficult than to be a
black man in America."
I'm as white as rice, but this is fucken killing me.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Your name" |
|
| Title: Re: 10 Mistakes White People Make on AGC, and SCAA, When Talking About Race |
26 Oct 2007 11:56:02 AM |
|
|
"marybones@verizon.net" <marybones@rcn.com> wrote in
news:1193073283.566911.254110@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
Arthur Ashe said something like this: "Everything I've done, all the
goals I've accomplished - nothing has been more difficult than to be a
black man in America."
The diff between caucasians and Afro-USAnians i is not so much black and
white but GREEN
.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | |