| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"Miller" |
| Date: |
12 Oct 2007 04:02:05 PM |
| Object: |
Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
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| User: "Awlnoing" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
12 Oct 2007 06:48:35 PM |
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"Miller" <chumley702@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:TgRPi.21$SU5.13@newsfe02.lga...
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
What could be more peaceful than all the people he put to sleep with his
speeches?
Far more appropriate than Yasser...
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 09:49:27 AM |
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Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Gore could never do anything technical or political to combat global
warming because he isn't scientific and has no personality, but by
helping Cheney into power in 2,000 so the Bushies could start an
ultramoronic oil quagmire, Gore certainly helped build the case for
getting off of petroleum.
Bret Cahill
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| User: "Arindam Banerjee" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 07:28:09 AM |
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Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever he
is crushing with his weight...
"Miller" <chumley702@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:TgRPi.21$SU5.13@newsfe02.lga...
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
.
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 09:24:58 AM |
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Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever he
is crushing with his weight...
Al Gore said he was gonna think up some "solutions."
This is from a guy who managed to spend $100 million and had unlimited
free air time for an entire year and somehow managed to never say the
word "idea" even once.
Bret Cahill
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| User: "Arindam Banerjee" |
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| Title: The Hydrogen Transmission Network, Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize, |
15 Oct 2007 06:37:16 AM |
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On Oct 14, 12:24 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever
he
is crushing with his weight...
Al Gore said he was gonna think up some "solutions."
This is from a guy who managed to spend $100 million and had unlimited
free air time for an entire year and somehow managed to never say the
word "idea" even once.
Bret Cahill
All I have is Usenet, and with that maybe a few readers. I do hope
those inclined to natural philosophy and common sense, will go through
the following essay and plays (written when I was unemployed) and
offer their comments, one way or the other:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
I have posted this link earlier, but did not create any stir. I
wonder why, everyone I know could find no fault with my new approach.
There was one person - Al Klein - who did not like it very much, looks
like his type is incredibly, disastrously, influential... (:(:
With regards,
Arindam Banerjee.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 01:45:06 AM |
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On Oct 14, 12:24 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever he
is crushing with his weight...
Al Gore said he was gonna think up some "solutions."
This is from a guy who managed to spend $100 million and had unlimited
free air time for an entire year and somehow managed to never say the
word "idea" even once.
Bret Cahill
All I have is Usenet, and with that maybe a few readers. I do hope
those inclined to natural philosophy and common sense, will go through
the following essay and plays (written when I was unemployed) and
offer their comments, one way or the other:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
I have posted this link earlier, but did not create any stir. I
wonder why, everyone I know could find no fault with my new approach.
There was one person - Al Klein - who did not like it very much, looks
like his type is incredibly, disastrously, influential... (:(:
With regards,
Arindam Banerjee.
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
14 Oct 2007 12:32:38 PM |
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Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever he
is crushing with his weight...
Before the internet the rich seemed competent at covering their tracks
collectivizing costs to the rest of humanity while privatizing
resources to themselves. After all, Gore can and does buy and burn
many times more oil than other Amercans let alone third worlders.
Now the rich only seem to draw attention to their scams.
The $25 million Branson energy prize is a case in point.
First, it is less than three (3) orders of magnitude less than the
almost foolishly low $50 billion Hillary Clinton is promising for
energy R & D.
Second any breakthrough energy patents would be worth many times more
money anyway.
If EEStor's electrical storage super cap works out they'll be
trillionaires.
So what's the point of the $25 million prize?
One word: greenwashing.
Bret Cahill
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| User: "Arindam Banerjee" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 06:38:34 AM |
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On Oct 15, 3:32 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever
he
is crushing with his weight...
Before the internet the rich seemed competent at covering their tracks
collectivizing costs to the rest of humanity while privatizing
resources to themselves. After all, Gore can and does buy and burn
many times more oil than other Amercans let alone third worlders.
Now the rich only seem to draw attention to their scams.
The $25 million Branson energy prize is a case in point.
First, it is less than three (3) orders of magnitude less than the
almost foolishly low $50 billion Hillary Clinton is promising for
energy R & D.
Second any breakthrough energy patents would be worth many times more
money anyway.
If EEStor's electrical storage super cap works out they'll be
trillionaires.
So what's the point of the $25 million prize?
One word: greenwashing.
Bret Cahill
I suspect one has to fall into the mould of a certain approved pattern
of mankind to be eligible for such glorious prizes. Otherwise the
silence to the following work described in:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
could not have been so deafening.
Arindam Banerjee.
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 09:13:08 PM |
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the
silence to the following work described in:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
could not have been so deafening.
You were doing OK with the rich greenwashing themselves but you'll
lose every engineer on the planet trying to discuss violations of the
First Law of Thermodynamics.
Bret Cahill
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| User: "Romanise" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
23 Oct 2007 03:23:11 AM |
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On 16 Oct, 03:13, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
You were doing OK with the rich greenwashing themselves but you'll
lose every engineer on the planet trying to discuss violations of the
First Law of Thermodynamics.
Bret Cahill
Indians (those whose parents learnt all ropes) are ready to talk
about everything but what ails Indian Society.
I had to approach thousands of "educated" Indians to support an online
petition(www.dmjoshi.org) I have launched over 4 months back. Less
than one percent thought it worth anything. Some even became abusive,
and they were techers or students at IITs and like.
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| User: "harmony" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
26 Oct 2007 02:13:02 PM |
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"Romanise" <joshidm@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1193127791.375233.28230@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On 16 Oct, 03:13, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
You were doing OK with the rich greenwashing themselves but you'll
lose every engineer on the planet trying to discuss violations of the
First Law of Thermodynamics.
Bret Cahill
Indians (those whose parents learnt all ropes) are ready to talk
about everything but what ails Indian Society.
I had to approach thousands of "educated" Indians to support an online
petition(www.dmjoshi.org) I have launched over 4 months back. Less
than one percent thought it worth anything. Some even became abusive,
and they were techers or students at IITs and like.
xtians area about less than one pct population.
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| User: "Arindam Banerjee" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
22 Oct 2007 05:29:45 AM |
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On Oct 16, 12:13 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
the
silence to the following work described in:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
could not have been so deafening.
You were doing OK with the rich greenwashing themselves but you'll
lose every engineer on the planet trying to discuss violations of the
First Law of Thermodynamics.
Bret Cahill
Besides, there is nothing theoretical; everything is practical and
ready-made in the Hydrogen Transmission Network.
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
To find fault with it on theoretical grounds, is to be ridiculous.
That it appears to make nonsense of certain theories, is its great
strength, not weakness. By outing wrong theories, we make very
superior technologies based upon sounder theories. Such has been the
history of science and technology. I hope good sense will triumph
over racism and pig-headedness - the sooner the better. Or who will
be established as the greatest of hyprocrites? Not the usual devils,
but the so-called greenies, who yell so loud against pollution but
curiously fail to act upon the most effective ideas to tackle
pollution and other problems, when handed to them on a plate.
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| User: "Arindam Banerjee" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
22 Oct 2007 05:24:45 AM |
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On Oct 16, 12:13 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
the
silence to the following work described in:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
could not have been so deafening.
You were doing OK with the rich greenwashing themselves but you'll
lose every engineer on the planet trying to discuss violations of the
First Law of Thermodynamics.
Bret Cahill
No, you are wrong. I do pretty well with Indian engineers; they have
not shunned me in the least. Of course, we are not influential -
yet!
I think the Chinese engineers could agree with me. That is the
impression I got from watching a brilliant Chinese movie, "* Dragon, *
Tiger", where the participants were evidently using Internal Force
effects.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 01:49:03 AM |
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On Oct 15, 3:32 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Looks like the highest awards from the Western world go to those suave
chappies who can most eloquently deplore the plight of those or whatever he
is crushing with his weight...
Before the internet the rich seemed competent at covering their tracks
collectivizing costs to the rest of humanity while privatizing
resources to themselves. After all, Gore can and does buy and burn
many times more oil than other Amercans let alone third worlders.
Now the rich only seem to draw attention to their scams.
The $25 million Branson energy prize is a case in point.
First, it is less than three (3) orders of magnitude less than the
almost foolishly low $50 billion Hillary Clinton is promising for
energy R & D.
Second any breakthrough energy patents would be worth many times more
money anyway.
If EEStor's electrical storage super cap works out they'll be
trillionaires.
So what's the point of the $25 million prize?
One word: greenwashing.
Bret Cahill
I suspect one has to fall into the mould of a certain approved pattern
of mankind to be eligible for such glorious prizes. Otherwise the
silence to the following work described in:
www.users.bigpond.com/adda1234/HP.htm
could not have been so deafening.
Arindam Banerjee.
.
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| User: "Malrassic Park" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 10:46:45 AM |
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On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:02:05 -0400, "Miller"
<chumley702@chartermi.net> wrote:
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
That award money should keep Al in jet fuel for a year.
--
Yes, we speak English!
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
12 Oct 2007 04:08:56 PM |
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On Oct 12, 2:02 pm, "Miller" <chumley...@chartermi.net> wrote:
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the
person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity
between the nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies
and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize
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| User: "ZerkonX" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 08:23:08 AM |
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On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:08:56 -0700, Immortalist wrote:
According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the
person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity
between the nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies
and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".
Gore is clearly undeserving of this award.
He is and has been a political opportunist and a run of the mill war party
poodle who latched onto "the environment" bandwagon when it suited his
purpose. When he was in a position to do something about it, the whole
thing became vague in light of more pressing matters, usually war matters.
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 09:27:07 AM |
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Gore is clearly undeserving of this award.
On the plus side at least it can't make Gore any more pompous than he
already is.
Bret Cahill
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 01:35:36 PM |
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On Oct 13, 6:23 am, ZerkonX <ZER...@zerkonx.net> wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:08:56 -0700, Immortalist wrote:
According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the
person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity
between the nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies
and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses".
Gore is clearly undeserving of this award.
He is and has been a political opportunist and a run of the mill war party
poodle who latched onto "the environment" bandwagon when it suited his
purpose. When he was in a position to do something about it, the whole
thing became vague in light of more pressing matters, usually war matters.
So anyone with any contradictory behavior, even in the slightest,
should be disqualified from the award? Or can you describe how much
contradictory behavior is allowed before one can be disqualified?
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| User: "ZerkonX" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
14 Oct 2007 08:49:58 AM |
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On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 11:35:36 -0700, Immortalist wrote:
Or can you describe how much
contradictory behavior is allowed before one can be disqualified?
In this case I would say anyone who actively supported and help engage, a
direct contradiction, standing armies.
So here it isn't a matter of degree but a matter of direct contradiction.
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| User: "ta" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
12 Oct 2007 09:42:42 PM |
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On Oct 12, 5:02 pm, "Miller" <chumley...@chartermi.net> wrote:
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
I don't think so . . . I mean, the bulk of the film was
excellent . . . a lucid presentation of the issues, interesting and
persuasive scientific analyses, and a pretty thorough, intelligent
discussion overall.
So he builds us up with an excellent dissertation on the problem, and
then what does he suggest we do it about?
Buy a prius and replace our lightbulbs with compact fluorescents
(which is no small feat for Al, given the size of his energy hogging
Tennessee mansion).
Gimme a break.
I don't think we should reward Al, the consummate politician, for not
having the balls to address the real environmental issue of
overpopulation.
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| User: "tg" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 05:21:43 AM |
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On Oct 12, 10:42 pm, ta <padl...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
On Oct 12, 5:02 pm, "Miller" <chumley...@chartermi.net> wrote:
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
I don't think so . . . I mean, the bulk of the film was
excellent . . . a lucid presentation of the issues, interesting and
persuasive scientific analyses, and a pretty thorough, intelligent
discussion overall.
So he builds us up with an excellent dissertation on the problem, and
then what does he suggest we do it about?
Buy a prius and replace our lightbulbs with compact fluorescents
(which is no small feat for Al, given the size of his energy hogging
Tennessee mansion).
Gimme a break.
I don't think we should reward Al, the consummate politician, for not
having the balls to address the real environmental issue of
overpopulation.
Hi ta. I thought you were the incrementalist here. ;-)
I think the test is whether it gets to the point where there is real
international cooperation to solve a problem. It has happened on a
smaller scale with ozone-depletion, and this is a step less fraught
than population. So I have to say that if he has figured out a
political way to get people to care about such grand issues, more
power to him.
As for the power consumption of his property---one Abrams tank in Iraq
probably uses the same amount over the course of a year. And as I
understand it, they are doing various stuff to offset. But even if
they weren't, they would have a long way to go to meet the hypocrisy
of chickenhawks and gay-bashing gays that we see on the other side.
-tg
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 09:20:11 AM |
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if he has figured out a
political way to get people to care about such grand issues, more
power to him.
Sounds pretty iffy considering that Gore failed at figuring out a
political way to campaign on 8 years of peace and prosperity.
The misanthrope has only one use for AGW: to try to blame others on
his wastefulness and lack of accomplishment.
As for the power consumption of his property---one Abrams tank in Iraq
probably uses the same amount over the course of a year.
Or, for that matter, one widebody trying to get Gore's fat ***** up to
50,000 feet.
And as I
understand it, they are doing various stuff to offset. But even if
they weren't, they would have a long way to go to meet the hypocrisy
of chickenhawks and gay-bashing gays that we see on the other side.
The hypocrisy of Repugs is a given. That's why it is so easy to
defeat them if you have a half way functional Democrat.
Gore is a lot like Dumbya: Another unaccomplished jerk son of a rich
politician.
Bret Cahill
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| User: "ta" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
13 Oct 2007 12:56:13 PM |
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On Oct 13, 6:21 am, tg <tgdenn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Oct 12, 10:42 pm, ta <padl...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
On Oct 12, 5:02 pm, "Miller" <chumley...@chartermi.net> wrote:
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
I don't think so . . . I mean, the bulk of the film was
excellent . . . a lucid presentation of the issues, interesting and
persuasive scientific analyses, and a pretty thorough, intelligent
discussion overall.
So he builds us up with an excellent dissertation on the problem, and
then what does he suggest we do it about?
Buy a prius and replace our lightbulbs with compact fluorescents
(which is no small feat for Al, given the size of his energy hogging
Tennessee mansion).
Gimme a break.
I don't think we should reward Al, the consummate politician, for not
having the balls to address the real environmental issue of
overpopulation.
Hi ta. I thought you were the incrementalist here. ;-)
Hey tg -- I'll give my standard response: it depends. ;-)
I think the test is whether it gets to the point where there is real
international cooperation to solve a problem. It has happened on a
smaller scale with ozone-depletion, and this is a step less fraught
than population. So I have to say that if he has figured out a
political way to get people to care about such grand issues, more
power to him.
Despite my emotional response above, I have considered the argument.
But I think Al has actually done more harm than good by fostering the
delusion that there is no correlation between global warming (and
other related environmental problems) and human overpopulation, as a
matter of omission. The so called "environmentalists" were already
well-aware of the dangers of global warming before Al's film, and so
for them, it's nothing more than a feel-good movie. I have no doubt
that global warming believers made up the majority of the film's
audience.
For those who were on the fence or who did not believe, we now have a
new population who believes (mistakenly imo) that driving hybrid cars
and using CFLs will solve global warming. The end result is that
people feel good, and the chairs on the deck are re-arranged. Al,
therefore, is an enabler.
That's not to say hybrids are not better than hummers (the trucks
anyway ;-)), or that CFLs are not better than incandescent lights, of
course. But it sets up a false dilemma -- that hybrids vs. hummers is
our only choice.
To not talk about overpopulation in dealing with global warming is
like not talking about eating a healthy diet and exercising in dealing
with obesity. I mean, sure, a double cheeseburger without the cheese
is preferable, but surely there's more to be done.
As for the power consumption of his property---one Abrams tank in Iraq
probably uses the same amount over the course of a year. And as I
understand it, they are doing various stuff to offset. But even if
they weren't, they would have a long way to go to meet the hypocrisy
of chickenhawks and gay-bashing gays that we see on the other side.
-tg
Of course, you'll get no disagreement from me -- their brand of
hypocrisy is a far worse brand, and I don't want to crucify the man.
But two wrongs don't make a right, and surely there is a better
spokesperson than Al.
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| User: "tg" |
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| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
14 Oct 2007 05:54:30 AM |
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On Oct 13, 1:56 pm, ta <padl...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
On Oct 13, 6:21 am, tg <tgdenn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Oct 12, 10:42 pm, ta <padl...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
On Oct 12, 5:02 pm, "Miller" <chumley...@chartermi.net> wrote:
Gore had a piece of the peace prize this year because apparently the
committee wanted to make a statement about the importance immediate action
on global warming. They also mentioned the disastrous effect it will have
on economies and cultures throughout the world. Is this an appropriate
reason for awarding the prize?
Scott
I don't think so . . . I mean, the bulk of the film was
excellent . . . a lucid presentation of the issues, interesting and
persuasive scientific analyses, and a pretty thorough, intelligent
discussion overall.
So he builds us up with an excellent dissertation on the problem, and
then what does he suggest we do it about?
Buy a prius and replace our lightbulbs with compact fluorescents
(which is no small feat for Al, given the size of his energy hogging
Tennessee mansion).
Gimme a break.
I don't think we should reward Al, the consummate politician, for not
having the balls to address the real environmental issue of
overpopulation.
Hi ta. I thought you were the incrementalist here. ;-)
Hey tg -- I'll give my standard response: it depends. ;-)
I think the test is whether it gets to the point where there is real
international cooperation to solve a problem. It has happened on a
smaller scale with ozone-depletion, and this is a step less fraught
than population. So I have to say that if he has figured out a
political way to get people to care about such grand issues, more
power to him.
Despite my emotional response above, I have considered the argument.
But I think Al has actually done more harm than good by fostering the
delusion that there is no correlation between global warming (and
other related environmental problems) and human overpopulation, as a
matter of omission. The so called "environmentalists" were already
well-aware of the dangers of global warming before Al's film, and so
for them, it's nothing more than a feel-good movie. I have no doubt
that global warming believers made up the majority of the film's
audience.
For those who were on the fence or who did not believe, we now have a
new population who believes (mistakenly imo) that driving hybrid cars
and using CFLs will solve global warming. The end result is that
people feel good, and the chairs on the deck are re-arranged. Al,
therefore, is an enabler.
That's not to say hybrids are not better than hummers (the trucks
anyway ;-)), or that CFLs are not better than incandescent lights, of
course. But it sets up a false dilemma -- that hybrids vs. hummers is
our only choice.
To not talk about overpopulation in dealing with global warming is
like not talking about eating a healthy diet and exercising in dealing
with obesity. I mean, sure, a double cheeseburger without the cheese
is preferable, but surely there's more to be done.
As for the power consumption of his property---one Abrams tank in Iraq
probably uses the same amount over the course of a year. And as I
understand it, they are doing various stuff to offset. But even if
they weren't, they would have a long way to go to meet the hypocrisy
of chickenhawks and gay-bashing gays that we see on the other side.
-tg
Of course, you'll get no disagreement from me -- their brand of
hypocrisy is a far worse brand, and I don't want to crucify the man.
But two wrongs don't make a right, and surely there is a better
spokesperson than Al.
Well put, ta. I'm sure you know that I completely agree with you on
the enviro-blindness about population. My own emotional reaction is to
attacks on Gore as an individual---it just reminds me of "with whom
would you rather have a beer?". There seems to be this negative
attitude about the guy that isn't particularly rational.
Just to have a little positive note on a dreary situation---some of
the tech that should come out of this will make a difference in low-
standard-of-living high-birthrate places. Put a wind/solar generator
in an African village (Bill Gates, are you listening?) and lots of
things are possible. But they will have to come down in price, which
will only happen through first-world market forces.
-tg
.
|
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| User: "Bret Cahill" |
|
| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
14 Oct 2007 12:20:54 PM |
|
|
There seems to be this negative
attitude about the guy
Hardly surprising considering Gore's all consuming hatred of the ever
popular Clintons. A _Washington Post_ or some other columnist got it
half way right in 2000 comparing Gore to the Italian composer who was
jealous of Mozart. I say "halfway" because while Bill Clinton could
be a credible political Mozart, the Italian composer wasn't exactly
tone deaf.
The Democratic Party is big tent but the big tent shouldn't include
haters. Gore's irrational hatred of Clinton alone should have
precluded him from being in the party in any official capacity, let
alone being nominated as a presidential candidate.
Nominating a misanthrope in 2000 as a presidential candidate was the
dumbest mistake the Democratic Party has made in its two century
history. Even Tipper could have gotten into the White House and have
speeded up the time line for the first woman president by 8 years.
Campaigns and elections have consequences. With their concession
speeches Gore and Kerry are both joined at the hip with the worst
president in the history of the republic and no amount of greenwashing
can mask this glaring fact in the minds of either future historians or
'08 voters.
If the dunce in the White House has an approval rating of 25% --
mostly fundies and the politically incurious shunned by all Hollywood
types except maybe Mel Gibson -- what does this say about candidates
who couldn't beat him by at least double digits?
Gore and Kerry were too dumb to get their lofty message out with 100
million dollars and unlimited access to the media for a year?
To dumb to call the bottom fishing scams of the GOP?
To dumb to wrangle the public debate from media hyping social issues
and back to economic issues?
that isn't particularly rational.
Is it particularly rational to claim you should be president by
claiming that you were too dumb to get your lofty message out?
Is it particularly rational to campaign against the unparalleled
successes of your own administration, i. e., the longest economic
expansion in the history of the republic, trillions in budget
surpluses, highest increase in black family income since the
Emancipation Proclamation, all with economic numbers numbers that
discredited GOP "market" economists?
Is it particularly rational for the Democratic Party to spend $100
million for a candidate to get his ideas out when he never _once_ in
the course of his entire campaign let the word "idea" slip out of his
mouth?
It it particularly rational to make 2 concession speechs in one
campaign, both times without an accurate vote count? The Supreme
Court never ordered anyone to concede even once.
Is it particularly rational to blame Clinton's sex scandal on your
failure to become president when Clinton's own approval rating soared
during the scandal?
Was it particularly rational to select jihad Joe "private matters like
religion and sex are political matters" Lieberman as a running mate
just because Lieberman denounced Clinton's sex scandal?
Is it particularly rational to try to greenwash yourself by deploring
global warming while having no solutions to your own 20 megawatt hour/
month electric consumption?
Democrats need to face reality: All the irrationality of the Bushie
years is traceable to the irrationality of Democrats nominating a
pompous unaccomplished ingrate senator's son in 2000.
Shortly after he was elected W. Bush told some Swedes that it was
pretty amazing when you think about it. He campaigned against peace
and prosperity and he won.
Like just about everything else the Bushies said, this was misleading
too.
Actually it was Al Gore who was campaigning against 8 years of peace
and prosperity.
Just to have a little positive note on a dreary situation---some of
the tech that should come out of this will make a difference in low-
standard-of-living high-birthrate places. Put a wind/solar generator
in an African village (Bill Gates, are you listening?) and lots of
things are possible. But they will have to come down in price, which
will only happen through first-world market forces.
Just to add a realistic note I was explaining to a politically as well
as technically astute acquaintence now residing in the midwest about
the dire situation in S. California with the one two punch of peak oil
and global warming drying up the Colorado River. I said S. Cal.
relies on two liquids more than any other place, water and petroleum
"and both are disappearing or getting expensive really fast."
I then quoted a marine biologist at Scripps in La Jolla who predicted
in as little as 15 years, they'll draw down Lake Mead below the
turbine inlets and S. Cal. wouldn't have any electricity or water . .
The acquaintence just gloated, "we have coal, we have water . . ."
From that remark was obvious he had already skipped plan A, saving the
polar bears, and gone directly to Plan B, saving humans (including his
own fanny).
I'm a little more hopeful ("breakthroughs are guaranteed") but he's
right that all the greenwashing by the rich wouldn't amount to a hill
of beans as far as future reality is concerned.
When gas is $10/gallon toward the end of Hillary's second term Gore's
polar bears and the Branson's Prize will seem like sick jokes.
Let's hope that Hillary does more than $50 billion for sustainable
energy. We need at least $100 billion/year -- what Cheney is now
spending on his Iraqi oil quagmire.
The Nobel Prize needs to go to someone with _solutions_. Not only
does Gore have no solutions, political or technical, Gore is precluded
from ever having any solutions because Gore abhors ideas.
Even more, the Nobel Prize also needs to go to someone who isn't
consumed by hate.
Bret Cahill
.
|
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| User: "tg" |
|
| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 05:29:38 AM |
|
|
On Oct 14, 1:20 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
There seems to be this negative
attitude about the guy
quote
(Krugman NYT)
What is it about Mr. Gore that drives right-wingers insane?
Partly it's a reaction to what happened in 2000, when the American
people chose Mr. Gore but his opponent somehow ended up in the White
House. Both the personality cult the right tried to build around
President Bush and the often hysterical denigration of Mr. Gore were,
I believe, largely motivated by the desire to expunge the stain of
illegitimacy from the Bush administration.
And now that Mr. Bush has proved himself utterly the wrong man for the
job - to be, in fact, the best president Al Qaeda's recruiters could
have hoped for - the symptoms of Gore derangement syndrome have grown
even more extreme.
The worst thing about Mr. Gore, from the conservative point of view,
is that he keeps being right. In 1992, George H. W. Bush mocked him as
the "ozone man," but three years later the scientists who discovered
the threat to the ozone layer won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. In
2002 he warned that if we invaded Iraq, "the resulting chaos could
easily pose a far greater danger to the United States than we
presently face from Saddam." And so it has proved.
But Gore hatred is more than personal. When National Review decided to
name its anti-environmental blog Planet Gore, it was trying to
discredit the message as well as the messenger. For the truth Mr. Gore
has been telling about how human activities are changing the climate
isn't just inconvenient. For conservatives, it's deeply threatening.
Consider the policy implications of taking climate change seriously.
end quote
So Bret:
Your complaint seems to be that you wanted him to win but he didn't
win by enough, and so now you have to find a personal attack to
express *your* anger and frustration. Just get back to work.
-tg
Hardly surprising considering Gore's all consuming hatred of the ever
popular Clintons. A _Washington Post_ or some other columnist got it
half way right in 2000 comparing Gore to the Italian composer who was
jealous of Mozart. I say "halfway" because while Bill Clinton could
be a credible political Mozart, the Italian composer wasn't exactly
tone deaf.
The Democratic Party is big tent but the big tent shouldn't include
haters. Gore's irrational hatred of Clinton alone should have
precluded him from being in the party in any official capacity, let
alone being nominated as a presidential candidate.
Nominating a misanthrope in 2000 as a presidential candidate was the
dumbest mistake the Democratic Party has made in its two century
history. Even Tipper could have gotten into the White House and have
speeded up the time line for the first woman president by 8 years.
Campaigns and elections have consequences. With their concession
speeches Gore and Kerry are both joined at the hip with the worst
president in the history of the republic and no amount of greenwashing
can mask this glaring fact in the minds of either future historians or
'08 voters.
If the dunce in the White House has an approval rating of 25% --
mostly fundies and the politically incurious shunned by all Hollywood
types except maybe Mel Gibson -- what does this say about candidates
who couldn't beat him by at least double digits?
Gore and Kerry were too dumb to get their lofty message out with 100
million dollars and unlimited access to the media for a year?
To dumb to call the bottom fishing scams of the GOP?
To dumb to wrangle the public debate from media hyping social issues
and back to economic issues?
that isn't particularly rational.
Is it particularly rational to claim you should be president by
claiming that you were too dumb to get your lofty message out?
Is it particularly rational to campaign against the unparalleled
successes of your own administration, i. e., the longest economic
expansion in the history of the republic, trillions in budget
surpluses, highest increase in black family income since the
Emancipation Proclamation, all with economic numbers numbers that
discredited GOP "market" economists?
Is it particularly rational for the Democratic Party to spend $100
million for a candidate to get his ideas out when he never _once_ in
the course of his entire campaign let the word "idea" slip out of his
mouth?
It it particularly rational to make 2 concession speechs in one
campaign, both times without an accurate vote count? The Supreme
Court never ordered anyone to concede even once.
Is it particularly rational to blame Clinton's sex scandal on your
failure to become president when Clinton's own approval rating soared
during the scandal?
Was it particularly rational to select jihad Joe "private matters like
religion and sex are political matters" Lieberman as a running mate
just because Lieberman denounced Clinton's sex scandal?
Is it particularly rational to try to greenwash yourself by deploring
global warming while having no solutions to your own 20 megawatt hour/
month electric consumption?
Democrats need to face reality: All the irrationality of the Bushie
years is traceable to the irrationality of Democrats nominating a
pompous unaccomplished ingrate senator's son in 2000.
Shortly after he was elected W. Bush told some Swedes that it was
pretty amazing when you think about it. He campaigned against peace
and prosperity and he won.
Like just about everything else the Bushies said, this was misleading
too.
Actually it was Al Gore who was campaigning against 8 years of peace
and prosperity.
Just to have a little positive note on a dreary situation---some of
the tech that should come out of this will make a difference in low-
standard-of-living high-birthrate places. Put a wind/solar generator
in an African village (Bill Gates, are you listening?) and lots of
things are possible. But they will have to come down in price, which
will only happen through first-world market forces.
Just to add a realistic note I was explaining to a politically as well
as technically astute acquaintence now residing in the midwest about
the dire situation in S. California with the one two punch of peak oil
and global warming drying up the Colorado River. I said S. Cal.
relies on two liquids more than any other place, water and petroleum
"and both are disappearing or getting expensive really fast."
I then quoted a marine biologist at Scripps in La Jolla who predicted
in as little as 15 years, they'll draw down Lake Mead below the
turbine inlets and S. Cal. wouldn't have any electricity or water . .
The acquaintence just gloated, "we have coal, we have water . . ."
From that remark was obvious he had already skipped plan A, saving the
polar bears, and gone directly to Plan B, saving humans (including his
own fanny).
I'm a little more hopeful ("breakthroughs are guaranteed") but he's
right that all the greenwashing by the rich wouldn't amount to a hill
of beans as far as future reality is concerned.
When gas is $10/gallon toward the end of Hillary's second term Gore's
polar bears and the Branson's Prize will seem like sick jokes.
Let's hope that Hillary does more than $50 billion for sustainable
energy. We need at least $100 billion/year -- what Cheney is now
spending on his Iraqi oil quagmire.
The Nobel Prize needs to go to someone with _solutions_. Not only
does Gore have no solutions, political or technical, Gore is precluded
from ever having any solutions because Gore abhors ideas.
Even more, the Nobel Prize also needs to go to someone who isn't
consumed by hate.
Bret Cahill
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bret Cahill" |
|
| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 08:51:58 AM |
|
|
What is it about Mr. Gore that drives right-wingers insane?
Partly it's a reaction to what happened in 2000, when the American
people chose Mr. Gore but his opponent somehow ended up in the White
House.
Another better reason is that Gore let Dumbya into the White House
and, from the POV of most, rightards as well as many of the brightest
liberal commentators like Eleanor Clift, promptly destroyed the GOP.
According to rightard theory, if Gore hadn't been such a loser, he
would have have gotten elected and destroyed the Democratic Party with
his preachyness.
We saw the same thing with Kerry.
In reality the GOP was destroyed by the high tax Clinton economic
boom. That's why Rove, et. at., were running around saying, "we got
to think big! BIB I tell ya!!!"
The Bushies abandoned the Gipper and "market" economists for jingoism
because that was their only choice.
Except for all the waste involved, even I must admit that Gore played
a cruel, if unintentional, trick on rightards.
.. . .
Your complaint seems to be that you wanted him to win but he didn't
win by enough,
Gore din't even have a campaign, unless you consider hating Clinton a
campaign.
Soon everyone will know what was going on.
Clinton was systematically destroying the GOP. A corp. media writer
even wrote "it's Clinton v the GOP. The antibiotics were having their
effect .
Instead of continuing the antibiotics until the GOP was completely
dead Gore suddenly discontinued the treatment allowing a virulent
strain of rightardism to evolve.
and so now you have to find a personal attack
If someone is a sanctimonious (Molly Ivins) pompous hypocrite jerk who
never accomplished anything in his entire life and now wants to
greenwash himself while burning tons of fossil fuels / year, 20
megawatt hours/month, then he's going to get attacked.
Anyway you dodged the issue:
Is it particularly rational to claim you should be president by
claiming that you were too dumb to get your lofty message out?
Is it particularly rational to campaign against the unparalleled
successes of your own administration, i. e., the longest economic
expansion in the history of the republic, trillions in budget
surpluses, highest increase in black family income since the
Emancipation Proclamation, all with economic numbers numbers that
discredited GOP "market" economists?
Is it particularly rational for the Democratic Party to spend $100
million for a candidate to get his ideas out when he never _once_ in
the course of his entire campaign let the word "idea" slip out of his
mouth?
It it particularly rational to make 2 concession speechs in one
campaign, both times without an accurate vote count? The Supreme
Court never ordered anyone to concede even once.
Is it particularly rational to blame Clinton's sex scandal on your
failure to become president when Clinton's own approval rating soared
during the scandal?
Was it particularly rational to select jihad Joe "private matters like
religion and sex are political matters" Lieberman as a running mate
just because Lieberman denounced Clinton's sex scandal?
Is it particularly rational to try to greenwash yourself by deploring
global warming while having no solutions to your own 20 megawatt hour/
month electric consumption?
Democrats need to face reality: All the irrationality of the Bushie
years is traceable to the irrationality of Democrats nominating a
pompous unaccomplished ingrate senator's son in 2000.
Shortly after he was elected W. Bush told some Swedes that it was
pretty amazing when you think about it. He campaigned against peace
and prosperity and he won.
Like just about everything else the Bushies said, this was misleading
too.
Actually it was Al Gore who was campaigning against 8 years of peace
and prosperity.
Just to have a little positive note on a dreary situation---some of
the tech that should come out of this will make a difference in low-
standard-of-living high-birthrate places. Put a wind/solar generator
in an African village (Bill Gates, are you listening?) and lots of
things are possible. But they will have to come down in price, which
will only happen through first-world market forces.
Just to add a realistic note I was explaining to a politically as well
as technically astute acquaintence now residing in the midwest about
the dire situation in S. California with the one two punch of peak oil
and global warming drying up the Colorado River. I said S. Cal.
relies on two liquids more than any other place, water and petroleum
"and both are disappearing or getting expensive really fast."
I then quoted a marine biologist at Scripps in La Jolla who predicted
in as little as 15 years, they'll draw down Lake Mead below the
turbine inlets and S. Cal. wouldn't have any electricity or water . .
The acquaintence just gloated, "we have coal, we have water . . ."
From that remark was obvious he had already skipped plan A, saving the
polar bears, and gone directly to Plan B, saving humans (including his
own fanny).
I'm a little more hopeful ("breakthroughs are guaranteed") but he's
right that all the greenwashing by the rich wouldn't amount to a hill
of beans as far as future reality is concerned.
When gas is $10/gallon toward the end of Hillary's second term Gore's
polar bears and the Branson's Prize will seem like sick jokes.
Let's hope that Hillary does more than $50 billion for sustainable
energy. We need at least $100 billion/year -- what Cheney is now
spending on his Iraqi oil quagmire.
The Nobel Prize needs to go to someone with _solutions_. Not only
does Gore have no solutions, political or technical, Gore is precluded
from ever having any solutions because Gore abhors ideas.
Even more, the Nobel Prize also needs to go to someone who isn't
consumed by hate.
Bret Cahill-
.
|
|
|
| User: "tg" |
|
| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 11:21:56 AM |
|
|
On Oct 15, 9:51 am, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
What is it about Mr. Gore that drives right-wingers insane?
Partly it's a reaction to what happened in 2000, when the American
people chose Mr. Gore but his opponent somehow ended up in the White
House.
Another better reason is that Gore let Dumbya into the White House
and, from the POV of most, rightards as well as many of the brightest
liberal commentators like Eleanor Clift, promptly destroyed the GOP.
According to rightard theory, if Gore hadn't been such a loser, he
would have have gotten elected and destroyed the Democratic Party with
his preachyness.
We saw the same thing with Kerry.
In reality the GOP was destroyed by the high tax Clinton economic
boom. That's why Rove, et. at., were running around saying, "we got
to think big! BIB I tell ya!!!"
The Bushies abandoned the Gipper and "market" economists for jingoism
because that was their only choice.
Except for all the waste involved, even I must admit that Gore played
a cruel, if unintentional, trick on rightards.
. . .
Your complaint seems to be that you wanted him to win but he didn't
win by enough,
Gore din't even have a campaign, unless you consider hating Clinton a
campaign.
Soon everyone will know what was going on.
Clinton was systematically destroying the GOP. A corp. media writer
even wrote "it's Clinton v the GOP. The antibiotics were having their
effect .
Instead of continuing the antibiotics until the GOP was completely
dead Gore suddenly discontinued the treatment allowing a virulent
strain of rightardism to evolve.
and so now you have to find a personal attack
If someone is a sanctimonious (Molly Ivins) pompous hypocrite jerk who
never accomplished anything in his entire life and now wants to
greenwash himself while burning tons of fossil fuels / year, 20
megawatt hours/month, then he's going to get attacked.
Anyway you dodged the issue:
Gosh Bret you are becoming as much of a snipcoward as Massah Weiss and
others of his ilk. What's up?
I can only repeat---you sound like a jilted lover. Gore was a lousy
campaigner and so on, he made bad choices, blah blah, .....and he won.
It isn't at all clear that if he had *not* run from Clinton (and
picked the other definition of "sanctimonious *****" as a running
mate,) the outcome would have been better. It was probably a wash in
the end, I think. More significant were your buddy Nader and the media
personal attacks which you are now repeating.
-tg
Is it particularly rational to claim you should be president by
claiming that you were too dumb to get your lofty message out?
Is it particularly rational to campaign against the unparalleled
successes of your own administration, i. e., the longest economic
expansion in the history of the republic, trillions in budget
surpluses, highest increase in black family income since the
Emancipation Proclamation, all with economic numbers numbers that
discredited GOP "market" economists?
Is it particularly rational for the Democratic Party to spend $100
million for a candidate to get his ideas out when he never _once_ in
the course of his entire campaign let the word "idea" slip out of his
mouth?
It it particularly rational to make 2 concession speechs in one
campaign, both times without an accurate vote count? The Supreme
Court never ordered anyone to concede even once.
Is it particularly rational to blame Clinton's sex scandal on your
failure to become president when Clinton's own approval rating soared
during the scandal?
Was it particularly rational to select jihad Joe "private matters like
religion and sex are political matters" Lieberman as a running mate
just because Lieberman denounced Clinton's sex scandal?
Is it particularly rational to try to greenwash yourself by deploring
global warming while having no solutions to your own 20 megawatt hour/
month electric consumption?
Democrats need to face reality: All the irrationality of the Bushie
years is traceable to the irrationality of Democrats nominating a
pompous unaccomplished ingrate senator's son in 2000.
Shortly after he was elected W. Bush told some Swedes that it was
pretty amazing when you think about it. He campaigned against peace
and prosperity and he won.
Like just about everything else the Bushies said, this was misleading
too.
Actually it was Al Gore who was campaigning against 8 years of peace
and prosperity.
Just to have a little positive note on a dreary situation---some of
the tech that should come out of this will make a difference in low-
standard-of-living high-birthrate places. Put a wind/solar generator
in an African village (Bill Gates, are you listening?) and lots of
things are possible. But they will have to come down in price, which
will only happen through first-world market forces.
Just to add a realistic note I was explaining to a politically as well
as technically astute acquaintence now residing in the midwest about
the dire situation in S. California with the one two punch of peak oil
and global warming drying up the Colorado River. I said S. Cal.
relies on two liquids more than any other place, water and petroleum
"and both are disappearing or getting expensive really fast."
I then quoted a marine biologist at Scripps in La Jolla who predicted
in as little as 15 years, they'll draw down Lake Mead below the
turbine inlets and S. Cal. wouldn't have any electricity or water . .
The acquaintence just gloated, "we have coal, we have water . . ."
From that remark was obvious he had already skipped plan A, saving the
polar bears, and gone directly to Plan B, saving humans (including his
own fanny).
I'm a little more hopeful ("breakthroughs are guaranteed") but he's
right that all the greenwashing by the rich wouldn't amount to a hill
of beans as far as future reality is concerned.
When gas is $10/gallon toward the end of Hillary's second term Gore's
polar bears and the Branson's Prize will seem like sick jokes.
Let's hope that Hillary does more than $50 billion for sustainable
energy. We need at least $100 billion/year -- what Cheney is now
spending on his Iraqi oil quagmire.
The Nobel Prize needs to go to someone with _solutions_. Not only
does Gore have no solutions, political or technical, Gore is precluded
from ever having any solutions because Gore abhors ideas.
Even more, the Nobel Prize also needs to go to someone who isn't
consumed by hate.
Bret Cahill-
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bret Cahill" |
|
| Title: Re: Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize |
15 Oct 2007 10:27:34 PM |
|
|
I can only repeat
Did you say it above somewhere?
If so, bring it here word for word.
---you sound like a jilted lover.
The guy who "took the initiative" to develop the internet was _always_
too prissy to support freedom of speech or even the First Freedom.
How do you think jihad Joe became his running mate?
Supposedly -- I'm guessing wildly -- Gore had a plan to become
president that didn't require mentioning anything about freedom of
speech or ideas.
Apparently his plan didn't work.
Now Gore can stew in his juice as he watches the Clintons return to
the White House and entertain celebrities and movie stars -- stuff
that makes a shallow person like Gore green with envy.
Gore was a lousy
campaigner
You really think a campaign can be surgically removed from the rest of
a public official's work?
Face reality: the campaign _is_ the public service.
For example, Bob Graham's campaigns were always educational. Graham
was a statesman who said what needed to be said and did what needed to
be done. Graham was always an exemplary public servant.
In sharp contrast Gore had no campaign other than hating Clinton.
Why? Because he wasn't a public servant and Prince Alpert would be
highly offended if anyone called him a "public servant."
and so on, he made bad choices,
Yet Democrats thought it was wise to suspend the healthy competitive
primary process so a bad campaigner who made bad choices, blah, blah,
etc., etc., etc., could have a cakewalk to the nomination?
Are you _sure_ Rove didn't somehow get control of the party
establishment?
Maybe Joe Klein was intoning:
"Listen up you Democrats. Just because Bill Clinton put the Party of
Gipper on the ash heap of history doesn't mean you losers have much of
a future. The best you can do is Al Gore . . ."
blah blah, .....and he won.
Then why did Gore concede, not just once, but _twice_?
It isn't at all clear that if he had *not* run from Clinton (and
picked the other definition of "sanctimonious *****" as a running
mate,) the outcome would have been better.
How are you going to defend Gore when Hillary wins by double digits?
"Fred Thompson ain't as bright as Dumbya."
"Rove retired."
"Dumbya ruined the GOP with his glorious patriotic eternal oil
quagmire."
Yes it will be the quagmire. Gore supporters and conservatives will
be on the exact same page on that one which is what I've been
maintaing all along.
Gore is a conservative and needs to get booted _out_ of the Democratic
Party.
The fact is, Clinton had destroyed the GOP by 2000 with his high tax
economic boom. All Democrats needed was someone to grab a shovel to
bury the stinking mess.
But the words "grab a shovel" and "Al Gore" will never appear together
in any sentence except this one.
Bret Cahill
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