| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"Robert Cohen" |
| Date: |
23 Sep 2005 07:21:12 AM |
| Object: |
Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
Another death is reported: I don't watch it, though it's on HBO which I
get.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050923/D8CPLKL83.html
My father was an amateur boxer. We often watched the Gillette Cavalcade
of Sports on Friday nights. He luved it.
It was typically a fight between Gene Fullmer vs Carmen Basillio.
Fullmer was invariably described as a Mormon who wouldn'r even drink
tea, and that's how I foundout there were "Mormons."
Muhammed Ali/Cassius Clay stayed-in it too long, and today has
Parkinson's.
Back then Archie Moore stayed-in ....whatever happened, I'll look 'im
up in google.
Anyhow, it will always be a controversial sport for several reasons:
Brutalities & Corruptions.
There are many movies:
Kirk Douglas in CHAMPION, Stallone in ROCKY, and Russell Crowe in the
Braddock biography with a memorable performance by Renee Zellwinger.
Max Schmelling & Joe Louis stories were good on PBS earlier this year:
International politics & race, especially during the 1930s.
I bet-on Evander Hollyfield at 15-1, and problem-prone Mike Tyson went
down.
If they ban it, then they oughta ban NASCAR racing too, because the
injury & death potential is much part of it too.
And American football ain't beanbag--there's many permanent injuries
including Nick Bunocotti's son in wheel chair.
What's the boxing phenomena got to do with "philosophy?"
Is it good, bad, ugly? Yes.
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| User: "Bahadur Singh" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
23 Sep 2005 06:52:13 PM |
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"Robert Cohen" <robtcohen@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1127478072.821737.222360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Some twenty years ago, I had the honor and pleasure of knowing Mr. Tony
Saleski (Tony Zale, to the boxing world). He was a kind and gentle man
with fists the size of small hams. I pity the man who ever got hit by
one of them, even given Tony's age when I knew him.
Tony started boxing in hopes of lifting himself out poverty, and to
avoid a lifetime of oppressive labor the steel mills. Probably one of
the best boxers of all time, he had little to show for a career that did
him more than a little damage, most of it psychological. It is pretty
certain that there were a lot of people that *did* make a *lot* of money
from his ability and pain.
By the time I had met him, he was, if not exactly homeless, at least
perpetually itinerate and he used a great deal of alcohol. When I say he
was not exactly homeless, I mean that he had managed to save some of the
little money he made, enough to buy a home for his sister in Seattle.
Even though his sister wanted him to live with her, he was not content
to stay in one place. I can only assume that, like many, many soldiers
before him, he found it difficult to deal with a society that so divided
its violent actions with a desire for peace. He, like they, found
solitude and alcohol to be the best solutions to the life he had led.
I can understand someone wanting to test their mettle against another;
to have to do so is a different matter, but for an industry to thrive on
violence so that a few (rarely those who do the fighting) can get rich
is repugnate.
Bahadur Singh
When life gives you a lemon, say 'Lemons? I like lemons. What else have
you got?'
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| User: "Sleepyhead" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
24 Sep 2005 04:08:14 AM |
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I can understand someone wanting to test their mettle against another; to have to do so is a different matter, but for an industry to thrive on violence so that a few (rarely those who do the fighting) can get rich is repugnate.
Amen to that, too.
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| User: "Brian Fletcher" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
23 Sep 2005 09:19:37 AM |
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"Robert Cohen" <robtcohen@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1127478072.821737.222360@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Another death is reported: I don't watch it, though it's on HBO which I
get.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050923/D8CPLKL83.html
My father was an amateur boxer. We often watched the Gillette Cavalcade
of Sports on Friday nights. He luved it.
SNIP.....
What's the boxing phenomena got to do with "philosophy?"
Is it good, bad, ugly? Yes.
I recently heard a unique comment from a "boxing priest", when asked "how
can you reconcile such activity with your vocation?".
" There is no better situation for practising self control than whe somebody
has just punched you in the face." was his reply.
BOfL
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| User: "Sleepyhead" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
23 Sep 2005 09:55:51 AM |
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Amen to that.
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| User: "synex" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
23 Sep 2005 07:36:58 AM |
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Robert Cohen wrote:
Another death is reported: I don't watch it, though it's on HBO which I
get.
What's the boxing phenomena got to do with "philosophy?"
Is it good, bad, ugly? Yes.
Does it have much to do with Philosophy? IMHO, all it comes down to is
responsible, consenting adults, making (hopefully) informed decisions
on what they do with their lives. As long as you're not hurting
(physically, mentally or any other -ally) an unwilling party, then ya
know what? Do what the f*** you like. If people die in pursuit of
happiness - well, it's better than the thousands who die every day in a
state of profound unhappiness. Maybe we should be worrying about
helping people who need help rather than trying to help those who don't
*want* help. And this goes for all lifestyles.
It's just like the Government to feel they need to put a stop to people
enjoying themselves. It's happened for centuries. Who made them more
knowledgeable about what's good for me, than me?
I understand why people find it disturbing - maybe that's even part of
the enjoyment for the people that *do* enjoy it. But as long as people
aren't coerced into it, or exploited, then it's up to them. Not that it
applies to sports, but Alexander Shulgin (I won't go in to what he
does, here) said (and I feel it's quite appropriate):
"I, as a responsible adult human being, will never concede the power to
anyone to regulate my choice of what I put into my body, or where I go
with my mind. From the skin inwards is my jurisdiction, is it not? I
choose what may or may not cross that border. Here I am the Customs
Agent. I am the Coast guard. I am the sole legal and spiritual
government of this territory, and only the laws I choose to enact
within myself are applicable"
DSt.
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| User: "AE" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
24 Sep 2005 05:18:56 AM |
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Surely not immoral, because all being harmed are volunteers.
Fund sirely - mostly for the spectators, I'd guess, but of course I
can't tell about the feeling of the boxers themselves, since I never
tried this sport.
What else? From my point of view quite stupid ...
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| User: "Bahadur Singh" |
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| Title: Re: Boxing: Immoral, Fun or What |
24 Sep 2005 09:21:38 AM |
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"AE" <hidden@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dh396a$qf2$02$1@news.t-online.com...
Surely not immoral, because all being harmed are volunteers.
One rarely volunteers in life, one simply plays the cards dealt to him.
Yes, there are choices and it is foolish as well as futile to think that
a man does not have responsibility for his own life and actions, but
often our choices are circumscribed by the aggressive use of power by
others. Witness prostitution; there may be choice involved but there is
also (perhaps) overwhelming economic and physical coercion.
Fund sirely - mostly for the spectators, I'd guess, but of course I
can't tell about the feeling of the boxers themselves, since I never
tried this sport.
Very often fun for the participants as well. Humans, particularly males,
are, I suspect, hardwired to prove their superiority to others. A
survival feature that one would hope will not be the reason we don't
survive as a race.
What else? From my point of view quite stupid ...
From most points of view, very stupid.
Bahadur Singh
'Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!' -- Shakespeare
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