| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"aka Nurse Betty" |
| Date: |
30 Jun 2004 02:27:35 AM |
| Object: |
Heaven |
If we can not imagine heaven except as a
projection, a subset of what we have known
on earth...
Then the idea of a oneness being heaven on
earth is discounted. I mean who would want
to take all that we know and make a heaven
from it? And if we can dream and if we can
chose what we think about; what we take
from each experience that we have... why
would we take anger and ugliness with us to
heaven, or to our dreams, or to the next
moment? When we get angry at someone, do
we harbor and entertain the ugliness and hard
feelings when we could look at space or the
inanimate or remember our good selves, ie
our possibility of taking a good self-image
with us into the next moment, situation, or
the next day...
We can not conquer evil. We can not overcome
all of the pain, disease, death, inhumanity of
man to man but we can take from life from
now to our next encounter what is positive.
It might seem like giving up half of life- giving
up the fight against evil, the fight for our own
rights, in a sense, the impulse to correct, punish
others, and defend the innocent but do not let
us become persecutors of those who we think
are wrong. Instead let us take from each time
what is good, add to each time what we would
take to our dreams and our heaven. Let us just
a few of the magnificent thoughts that we have
had that can take us out of the prison of the
present, which it can be, as well as a paradise.
Forgive this writer for being so clumsy and
trying to take credit for that which we all
know... all of us know better than I can express,
and it is I who will be hoping that one of you
can remind me tomorrow that I am more than
this mood or this problem or my sad guilty
self and that I can create, that we can create
simply by refusing to entertain that which we
do not really love and like and realize that we
have to give up one or the other... we can not
hold anger and happiness at one time.
.
|
|
| User: "Immortalist" |
|
| Title: Re: Heaven |
30 Jun 2004 10:47:25 AM |
|
|
"aka Nurse Betty" <goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NXtEc.18390$Yu.1941@fed1read04...
If we can not imagine heaven except as a
projection, a subset of what we have known
on earth...
Then the idea of a oneness being heaven on
earth is discounted. I mean who would want
to take all that we know and make a heaven
from it? And if we can dream and if we can
chose what we think about; what we take
from each experience that we have... why
would we take anger and ugliness with us to
heaven, or to our dreams, or to the next
moment? When we get angry at someone, do
we harbor and entertain the ugliness and hard
feelings when we could look at space or the
inanimate or remember our good selves, ie
our possibility of taking a good self-image
with us into the next moment, situation, or
the next day...
We can not conquer evil. We can not overcome
all of the pain, disease, death, inhumanity of
man to man but we can take from life from
now to our next encounter what is positive.
It might seem like giving up half of life- giving
up the fight against evil, the fight for our own
rights, in a sense, the impulse to correct, punish
others, and defend the innocent but do not let
us become persecutors of those who we think
are wrong. Instead let us take from each time
what is good, add to each time what we would
take to our dreams and our heaven. Let us just
a few of the magnificent thoughts that we have
had that can take us out of the prison of the
present, which it can be, as well as a paradise.
Forgive this writer for being so clumsy and
trying to take credit for that which we all
know... all of us know better than I can express,
and it is I who will be hoping that one of you
can remind me tomorrow that I am more than
this mood or this problem or my sad guilty
self and that I can create, that we can create
simply by refusing to entertain that which we
do not really love and like and realize that we
have to give up one or the other... we can not
hold anger and happiness at one time.
If we forget about all anger and whipe it out of our memory, how will we know
that we are happy. Will all times be just as happy? Without strife how will we
know the elements of wherever we are, hot, cold, wet, or dry? If there be no
seperating out?
.
|
|
|
| User: "aka Nurse Betty" |
|
| Title: Re: Heaven |
30 Jun 2004 02:50:51 PM |
|
|
"Immortalist" <Reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yamdnX1q0bVUfX_dRVn-tA@comcast.com...
:
: "aka Nurse Betty" <goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:NXtEc.18390$Yu.1941@fed1read04...
: > If we can not imagine heaven except as a
: > projection, a subset of what we have known
: > on earth...
: >
: > Then the idea of a oneness being heaven on
: > earth is discounted. I mean who would want
: > to take all that we know and make a heaven
: > from it? And if we can dream and if we can
: > chose what we think about; what we take
: > from each experience that we have... why
: > would we take anger and ugliness with us to
: > heaven, or to our dreams, or to the next
: > moment? When we get angry at someone, do
: > we harbor and entertain the ugliness and hard
: > feelings when we could look at space or the
: > inanimate or remember our good selves, ie
: > our possibility of taking a good self-image
: > with us into the next moment, situation, or
: > the next day...
: >
: > We can not conquer evil. We can not overcome
: > all of the pain, disease, death, inhumanity of
: > man to man but we can take from life from
: > now to our next encounter what is positive.
: > It might seem like giving up half of life- giving
: > up the fight against evil, the fight for our own
: > rights, in a sense, the impulse to correct, punish
: > others, and defend the innocent but do not let
: > us become persecutors of those who we think
: > are wrong. Instead let us take from each time
: > what is good, add to each time what we would
: > take to our dreams and our heaven. Let us just
: > a few of the magnificent thoughts that we have
: > had that can take us out of the prison of the
: > present, which it can be, as well as a paradise.
: > Forgive this writer for being so clumsy and
: > trying to take credit for that which we all
: > know... all of us know better than I can express,
: > and it is I who will be hoping that one of you
: > can remind me tomorrow that I am more than
: > this mood or this problem or my sad guilty
: > self and that I can create, that we can create
: > simply by refusing to entertain that which we
: > do not really love and like and realize that we
: > have to give up one or the other... we can not
: > hold anger and happiness at one time.
: >
:
: If we forget about all anger and whipe it out of our memory, how will we
know
: that we are happy. Will all times be just as happy? Without strife how
will we
: know the elements of wherever we are, hot, cold, wet, or dry? If there be
no
: seperating out?
Dear Immortalist,
First, let me say that while the ideas in my post are real
and I fully believe in them, the way the were presented...
in the middle of the night and like a cathartic ramble...
the presentation sucked. I'm surprised that anyone could
glean anything worth responding to. I will try again later.
I don't mean that we should forget anger or wipe it
out of our memory. I meant that when it has run it's
course and I believe that it is appropriate at times, not
just to feel angry but to express that. I hope that people
find ways to express their true angry feelings about
what is going on in politics today in the US. And I mean
that for people of good will on both sides of the issues.
But we don't have to harbor ill feelings. I've had a near
death experience lately, so maybe I should wait a while
to see if my perspective (metaphor) changes. Maybe
I'll feel like trying again in a little while.
Thanks for responding.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Amananon" |
|
| Title: Re: Heaven |
02 Jul 2004 09:26:00 AM |
|
|
"aka Nurse Betty" <goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<NXtEc.18390$Yu.1941@fed1read04>...
If we can not imagine heaven except as a
projection, a subset of what we have known
on earth...
Then the idea of a oneness being heaven on
earth is discounted. I mean who would want
to take all that we know and make a heaven
from it? And if we can dream and if we can
chose what we think about; what we take
from each experience that we have... why
would we take anger and ugliness with us to
heaven, or to our dreams, or to the next
moment? When we get angry at someone, do
we harbor and entertain the ugliness and hard
feelings when we could look at space or the
inanimate or remember our good selves, ie
our possibility of taking a good self-image
with us into the next moment, situation, or
the next day...
We can not conquer evil. We can not overcome
all of the pain, disease, death, inhumanity of
man to man but we can take from life from
now to our next encounter what is positive.
Agreed. We can attempt to solve problems while not being dragged down
by them-- thus we can at all times pursue the good and have
constructive things in mind, rather than losing sight of that and
getting lost (to no avail) in misery.
It might seem like giving up half of life- giving
up the fight against evil, the fight for our own
rights, in a sense, the impulse to correct, punish
others, and defend the innocent but do not let
us become persecutors of those who we think
are wrong.
But in many cases, admonishment or kind words will be much more
effective than attack. That is, by assaulting those whom we disagree
with, we are creating trouble. Trouble (or unreasonable behavior) is
the half of life we might be wise in giving up.
Instead let us take from each time
what is good, add to each time what we would
take to our dreams and our heaven. Let us just
a few of the magnificent thoughts that we have
had that can take us out of the prison of the
present, which it can be, as well as a paradise.
Again, it is a good idea to strive towards good things rather than
losing sight of solutions (or alternatives) and dwelling only on
problems. The former approach demonstrates the mind as I think it was
designed to function-- that is, solving problems and moving on to
better things, at all times, rather than being toughened-up, cynical,
angry, and erroniously glued to problems made worse by dwelling
thereupon.
Forgive this writer for being so clumsy and
trying to take credit for that which we all
know... all of us know better than I can express,
and it is I who will be hoping that one of you
can remind me tomorrow that I am more than
this mood or this problem or my sad guilty
self and that I can create, that we can create
simply by refusing to entertain that which we
do not really love and like and realize that we
have to give up one or the other... we can not
hold anger and happiness at one time.
A good approach, to refuse to allow what we don't want in our minds to
adhere there. That's an important point-- why do you suppose people
cling to things they do not like or want? Such as cynical or
depressed states of mind? (Perhaps those things stick to us, and we,
thus presided over, buckle and submit to the muck.) Clearly, this
could not be normal for Homo Sapiens, since such a race is not going
to go forward in a natural way towards better things (as we see all
species doing, to their advantage). Thus, I think that's a disorder
we see today, not our natural state. This is all the more reason to
give up things that serve no purpose (except to bind us up), and move
in a good (healthy) direction, constantly, in a way that is helpful
and beneficial; and we need to evaluate what is helping versus what is
harming. Thus, in solving problems constructively, or in moving past
miseries towards better things which we always have in mind, we are
acting rationally-- that, I think, is how the goal-oriented mind of
man is designed to work. When the mind works well, there is always
that good we have in mind, at the front of the mind, that we strive
towards (and what known species strives towards ill or demise?), thus
ills never daunt us when there is that good aim always in our minds to
fill thoughts and provide motivation. That helps to overcome our
cynical ruts or angry vices-- establishing a natural state of healthy
function, which is to our tremendous advantage.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Earnest" |
|
| Title: Re: Heaven |
30 Jun 2004 01:43:03 PM |
|
|
We get touches of heaven in on Earth now and then, and that is how we can
imagine it.
Like those moments when we are about to fall asleep and we are totally
secure with God and man for a few moments.
"aka Nurse Betty" <goodidea1950SPAM-SPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NXtEc.18390$Yu.1941@fed1read04...
If we can not imagine heaven except as a
projection, a subset of what we have known
on earth...
Then the idea of a oneness being heaven on
earth is discounted. I mean who would want
to take all that we know and make a heaven
from it? And if we can dream and if we can
chose what we think about; what we take
from each experience that we have... why
would we take anger and ugliness with us to
heaven, or to our dreams, or to the next
moment? When we get angry at someone, do
we harbor and entertain the ugliness and hard
feelings when we could look at space or the
inanimate or remember our good selves, ie
our possibility of taking a good self-image
with us into the next moment, situation, or
the next day...
We can not conquer evil. We can not overcome
all of the pain, disease, death, inhumanity of
man to man but we can take from life from
now to our next encounter what is positive.
It might seem like giving up half of life- giving
up the fight against evil, the fight for our own
rights, in a sense, the impulse to correct, punish
others, and defend the innocent but do not let
us become persecutors of those who we think
are wrong. Instead let us take from each time
what is good, add to each time what we would
take to our dreams and our heaven. Let us just
a few of the magnificent thoughts that we have
had that can take us out of the prison of the
present, which it can be, as well as a paradise.
Forgive this writer for being so clumsy and
trying to take credit for that which we all
know... all of us know better than I can express,
and it is I who will be hoping that one of you
can remind me tomorrow that I am more than
this mood or this problem or my sad guilty
self and that I can create, that we can create
simply by refusing to entertain that which we
do not really love and like and realize that we
have to give up one or the other... we can not
hold anger and happiness at one time.
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
