| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"Robert Cohen" |
| Date: |
08 Oct 2006 11:02:22 AM |
| Object: |
hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
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| User: "Sir Frederick" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
08 Oct 2006 11:48:26 AM |
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On 8 Oct 2006 09:02:22 -0700, "Robert Cohen" <robtcohen@msn.com> wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Pain sells.
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
08 Oct 2006 01:45:02 PM |
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Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/culture2.html
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| User: "Brian Fletcher" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
08 Oct 2006 10:20:43 PM |
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"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160333102.037455.221070@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
As an ex angler from way back, I used to wonder that if I had a hook stuck
in my mouth, would I pull against it with all my will?.
Of course if I was hooked in a burning building at the time, I might just
act in a fish like manner.
I suspect there would be ample evidence somewhere to illustrate pain
response in a fish's brain.
BOfL
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 01:35:04 PM |
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Brian Fletcher wrote:
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160333102.037455.221070@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
As an ex angler from way back, I used to wonder that if I had a hook stuck
in my mouth, would I pull against it with all my will?.
Of course if I was hooked in a burning building at the time, I might just
act in a fish like manner.
I suspect there would be ample evidence somewhere to illustrate pain
response in a fish's brain.
Animals respond to threats in many ways, not only by fighting and
fleeing. Rats, for instance, try to escape when threatened, but will
fight when cornered. Some animals stand perfectly still so that
predators will not see them. Others have more exotic self-protection
methods.
Some species of fish change color swiftly,
to camouflage themselves.
Although these responses are triggered by the sympathetic nervous
system, they do not fit the simple model of fight or flight.
Furthermore, it is relatively rare that a threat from another animal
results immediately in fight or flight. Usually there is a period of
heightened awareness, during which each animal interprets behavioral
signals from the other. Signs such as paling, piloerection, immobility,
sounds, and body language communicate the status and intentions of each
animal. There may be a sort of negotiation, after which fight or flight
may ensue, but which might also result in playing, mating, or nothing
at all. An example of this is kittens playing: each kitten shows the
signs of sympathetic arousal, but they are aware of each other's
intent not to inflict real damage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_or_flight
BOfL
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| User: "Robert Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 07:42:49 AM |
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ISN'T THUS SPORT FISHING IMMORAL as per sport hunting?
Brian Fletcher wrote:
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160333102.037455.221070@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
As an ex angler from way back, I used to wonder that if I had a hook stuck
in my mouth, would I pull against it with all my will?.
Of course if I was hooked in a burning building at the time, I might just
act in a fish like manner.
I suspect there would be ample evidence somewhere to illustrate pain
response in a fish's brain.
BOfL
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| User: "Brian Fletcher" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 08:51:40 AM |
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It is for me, but what of the fish I eat? I know of no way that fish can be
caught in a humanitarian way, or is it the 'sport' factor you are refering
to?
BOfL
"Robert Cohen" <robtcohen@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1160397769.175306.46090@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
ISN'T THUS SPORT FISHING IMMORAL as per sport hunting?
Brian Fletcher wrote:
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1160333102.037455.221070@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
As an ex angler from way back, I used to wonder that if I had a hook
stuck
in my mouth, would I pull against it with all my will?.
Of course if I was hooked in a burning building at the time, I might just
act in a fish like manner.
I suspect there would be ample evidence somewhere to illustrate pain
response in a fish's brain.
BOfL
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 07:56:55 AM |
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Robert Cohen wrote:
ISN'T THUS SPORT FISHING IMMORAL as per sport hunting?
Naaa I'm an angler and yeah fish do feel pain, but it don't matter coz
they only remember it for 4 secs....hehehheheheheh
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| User: "Robert Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 08:49:56 AM |
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I have not fished for years; but in my childhood it was what we ofen
did:
Circa early 1950s, my Dad had won a boat with 40 Horse Power Evinrude
(ior Johnson?) outboard motor by catching a seven and half pound bass
in a new lake promotion contest.
I think he must hyave sort of looked down upon night fishing, because
casting a fishing line was his skill--not merely catching
dozens/hundreds of crappie at night off a bridge or however they did it
with multiple "trot" lines & flashlight
Well, once (age 14 or so) I got a barb hook through finger when
taking-off a pained-squiggling fish, I quit.
THE FISH SO RIGHTLY BEAT ME
lee@rdfmedia.com wrote:
Robert Cohen wrote:
ISN'T THUS SPORT FISHING IMMORAL as per sport hunting?
Naaa I'm an angler and yeah fish do feel pain, but it don't matter coz
they only remember it for 4 secs....hehehheheheheh
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| User: "tg" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 12:22:51 PM |
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Immortalist wrote:
Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
One technique for fishing with minnows as bait is to hook through one
of the small openings over the upper lip. Another is to go through the
back muscle---this presents a somewhat more natural swimming effect.
In both cases, the minnow seems to swim normally except when the
hook/line exerts drag.
If I had a wire threaded through my back muscle, I expect that the
slightest movement would cause a reaction. But the most dangerous thing
that a minnow can do is to act as if it is injured. So, is it Heroic
Stoic self-control, or is there a mechanism that negates the effect of
having the flesh pierced as long as the fish isn't constrained---as
long as it doesn't feel as if a predator has a hold of it?
tales from the old fisherman
-tg
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/culture2.html
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| User: "Robert Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: hOLY mACKEREL: fISH fEEL pAIN tOO |
09 Oct 2006 01:24:06 PM |
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When ya buy a dozen or so minnows, there's often a coupla golden
minnows included, and they make trerrificer baits.
Use white bread dough balls for carp.
tg wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
Robert Cohen wrote:
What the h has this got to do with anything sensible?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Fish are ... well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp
when you accidentally step on their feet.
Fish don't cry out or look sad or respond in a
particularly recognizable way. So we feel free
to treat them in a way that we would
not treat mammals or even birds.
It appears that the author is implying that it is a common
mis-perception that "fish do not feel pain."
One technique for fishing with minnows as bait is to hook through one
of the small openings over the upper lip. Another is to go through the
back muscle---this presents a somewhat more natural swimming effect.
In both cases, the minnow seems to swim normally except when the
hook/line exerts drag.
If I had a wire threaded through my back muscle, I expect that the
slightest movement would cause a reaction. But the most dangerous thing
that a minnow can do is to act as if it is injured. So, is it Heroic
Stoic self-control, or is there a mechanism that negates the effect of
having the flesh pierced as long as the fish isn't constrained---as
long as it doesn't feel as if a predator has a hold of it?
tales from the old fisherman
-tg
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/pain/microsite/culture2.html
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