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Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"v4vijayakumar" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2007 11:01:37 AM |
| Object: |
omnipotent / stone / lift |
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
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| User: "tooly" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
10 Feb 2007 07:00:37 PM |
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"v4vijayakumar" <vijayakumar.subburaj@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1171126897.556110.31900@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
If one studied what eternal BEING might be like, perhaps your scenario is a
logical conclusion to stave off things like boredom and emptiness.
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| User: "Daniel T." |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
10 Feb 2007 11:23:53 AM |
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"v4vijayakumar" <vijayakumar.subburaj@gmail.com> wrote:
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
So he can do it by giving up his omnipotence. Got it.
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| User: "jusholm" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
11 Feb 2007 04:25:24 AM |
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"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-29E975.12235210022007@news.west.earthlink.net...
"v4vijayakumar" <vijayakumar.subburaj@gmail.com> wrote:
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
So he can do it by giving up his omnipotence. Got it.
Nice one. This all just shows what a silly idea omnipotence is.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
13 Feb 2007 12:54:38 PM |
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"v4vijayakumar" <vijayakumar.subburaj@gmail.com> wrote:
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
1. Create a world in which omnipotence does not exist.
2. Step into said world
3. Close the door firmly, leaving the key outside.
--
Ug!
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| User: "George Dance" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
11 Feb 2007 05:58:23 PM |
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On Feb 10, 12:01 pm, "v4vijayakumar" <vijayakumar.subbu...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
But can he change himself back, afterward? If so, it's not really
true that he couldn't have lifted the rock; because he could have
changed himself back into ~x (that could have lifted the rock) at any
time.
Here's an analogy: I need money to pay a bunch of debts, and the only
way I can get it is to make myself someone' slave. So I go to him,
agree to be his slave, and start working as his slave - at his beck
and call, doing whatever he wants, etc. But I find he didn't pay his
bills, so I quit. If I can do that, though, I could have quit at any
time; so I was never really his slave.
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| User: "-Phil Clemence" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
13 Feb 2007 12:35:10 PM |
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"George Dance" <georgedance04@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1171238303.520339.260580@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 10, 12:01 pm, "v4vijayakumar" <vijayakumar.subbu...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
But can he change himself back, afterward? If so, it's not really
true that he couldn't have lifted the rock; because he could have
changed himself back into ~x (that could have lifted the rock) at any
time.
Here's an analogy: I need money to pay a bunch of debts, and the only
way I can get it is to make myself someone' slave. So I go to him,
agree to be his slave, and start working as his slave - at his beck
and call, doing whatever he wants, etc. But I find he didn't pay his
bills, so I quit. If I can do that, though, I could have quit at any
time; so I was never really his slave.
It makes me think how we can perceive what we can't conceive (and
vice-versa, I suppose?)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
13 Feb 2007 01:52:18 PM |
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v4vijayakumar wrote:
Question : Can an Omnipotent create a stone which he can not lift?
Answer : yes
here is how.
1. He creates a stone (say, 1 kg)
2. He makes himself into x (x is someone who can not lift 1 kg stone)
done.
just for arguments sake. :)
If God makes himself impotent, he may not be able to get it up again,
so to speak (it=omnipotence).
That is, how could x, as a non-omnipotent being, turn himself back
into God? If there were a built-in time limit to the x-phase, then we
could argue that x is not God, therefore x cannot lift the stone, yet
God (not being x) can. So, XGod is the non-stone-lifting-capable
version of God, and God is the all-powerful. But still, XGod is not
equivalent to God, so while XGod cannot lift the stone, God can.
Thus, God-as-we-usually-describe-him lifts all, and XGod (as modified
by God) lifts it not.
So much for precision. Equate God and XGod (via the fallacy of
equivocation), and the confusion begins...
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| User: "Don Stockbauer" |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
13 Feb 2007 02:03:08 PM |
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Since God and the Universe are identical, what it boils down to is a
systems problem. IE, the Universe creates a stone. If some subset of
the Universe cannot lift it, the U. "gets bigger hammer", so to speak,
say a bigger hoist or whatever, and lifts that sucker that a way..
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| User: "Daniel T." |
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| Title: Re: omnipotent / stone / lift |
13 Feb 2007 03:07:36 PM |
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"Don Stockbauer" <donstockbauer@hotmail.com> wrote:
Since God and the Universe are identical, what it boils down to is a
systems problem.
Once such a correspondence is made, it is meaningless to say God can
create anything. I.E., the universe cannot "create" a stone.
So if God and the Universe are identical, then God is not omnipotent.
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