| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"ta" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2005 07:48:12 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Selfish vs. Self-interest |
tg <tgdenning@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1122912835.949083.312900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
ta wrote:
AE wrote:
ta wrote:
It seems important to me to distinguish between the two for
philosophical
discussions.
In my mind, "selfishness" is placing one's needs/wants/desires above
everyone else's without regard to the consequences for everyone
else.
To act in "self-interest" is simply to act in a way that makes one
feel
good. We all act in our own self-interest at all times (sometimes
the
behaviour is selfish, sometimes it's not). If it feels good, we do
it. But
different things feel good to different people.
For example, the corporate executive who decides to put his
financial
interests ahead of human health impacts by not recalling vehicles
with
exploding gas tanks is selfish (and also acting out of
self-interest).
The volunteer who spends alot of time helping people is not
altruistic -
he's acting out of self-interest (helping people makes him feel
good).
Agreed so far.
Next step would be to see when a selfish action is against one's
self-interest, and when it isn't.
I would say that acting selfishly is ultimately never in one's own
self-interest (though the confusion lies in the *perception* that an
action is actually in one's own self-interest). Using the example
above, the corporate exec *thinks* his cost/benefit analysis will yield
what is in his best interest, and that may be true from a strictly
monetary standpoint, but he is viewing his actions from a very limited
point of view, imo.
You were doing ok to this point. But you can't decide what is in
other's self-interest, by your own definition,
-tg
<3rd, and final, attempt to post a reply to this>
Ah, yes, I see your point. I seem to have confused "self-interest" with the
subsequent consequences.
So the exec is still acting in his own self-interest, as the monetary
benefits "feel better" to him than any of the alternatives, and you are
correct, I cannot decide what is in another's self-interest.
But I can look at the consequences and observe that although the act was in
self-interest, and despite the short-term monetary gains/savings, the act
was ultimately more harmful to him as a human being, as well as those
affected.
.
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| User: "AE" |
|
| Title: Re: Selfish vs. Self-interest |
02 Aug 2005 02:46:28 AM |
|
|
ta wrote:
...
Ah, yes, I see your point. I seem to have confused "self-interest" with the
subsequent consequences.
So the exec is still acting in his own self-interest, as the monetary
benefits "feel better" to him than any of the alternatives, and you are
correct, I cannot decide what is in another's self-interest.
But I can look at the consequences and observe that although the act was in
self-interest, and despite the short-term monetary gains/savings, the act
was ultimately more harmful to him as a human being, as well as those
affected.
Harmful to him as a human being? What way?
.
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| User: "ta" |
|
| Title: Re: Selfish vs. Self-interest |
02 Aug 2005 02:05:05 PM |
|
|
AE wrote:
ta wrote:
...
Ah, yes, I see your point. I seem to have confused "self-interest" with the
subsequent consequences.
So the exec is still acting in his own self-interest, as the monetary
benefits "feel better" to him than any of the alternatives, and you are
correct, I cannot decide what is in another's self-interest.
But I can look at the consequences and observe that although the act was in
self-interest, and despite the short-term monetary gains/savings, the act
was ultimately more harmful to him as a human being, as well as those
affected.
Harmful to him as a human being? What way?
Harmful in terms of personal growth - some would use the term
"spiritual growth" - whatever. Engaging in selfish behaviour tends to
reinforce that kind of behaviour, which I believe hinders one's ability
to become a better person.
So if one gains financially, for example, but takes a step backward in
their evolution as a person, then I could make the observation that the
selfish act was not really benefical to them, in the larger scheme of
things.
.
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| User: "AE" |
|
| Title: Re: Selfish vs. Self-interest |
02 Aug 2005 02:17:15 PM |
|
|
ta wrote:
AE wrote:
ta wrote:
...
Ah, yes, I see your point. I seem to have confused "self-interest" with the
subsequent consequences.
So the exec is still acting in his own self-interest, as the monetary
benefits "feel better" to him than any of the alternatives, and you are
correct, I cannot decide what is in another's self-interest.
But I can look at the consequences and observe that although the act was in
self-interest, and despite the short-term monetary gains/savings, the act
was ultimately more harmful to him as a human being, as well as those
affected.
Harmful to him as a human being? What way?
Harmful in terms of personal growth - some would use the term
"spiritual growth" - whatever. Engaging in selfish behaviour tends to
reinforce that kind of behaviour, which I believe hinders one's ability
to become a better person.
So if one gains financially, for example, but takes a step backward in
their evolution as a person, then I could make the observation that the
selfish act was not really benefical to them, in the larger scheme of
things.
The existence of this larger scheme of things is not provable. Indeed to
argue for it's existence you'll have to take ressort to something as
nebulous as the Greek virtues.
Why should I aim for spiritual growth instead of worldly pleasure?
.
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| User: "ta" |
|
| Title: Re: Selfish vs. Self-interest |
02 Aug 2005 02:41:42 PM |
|
|
AE wrote:
ta wrote:
AE wrote:
ta wrote:
...
Ah, yes, I see your point. I seem to have confused "self-interest" with the
subsequent consequences.
So the exec is still acting in his own self-interest, as the monetary
benefits "feel better" to him than any of the alternatives, and you are
correct, I cannot decide what is in another's self-interest.
But I can look at the consequences and observe that although the act was in
self-interest, and despite the short-term monetary gains/savings, the act
was ultimately more harmful to him as a human being, as well as those
affected.
Harmful to him as a human being? What way?
Harmful in terms of personal growth - some would use the term
"spiritual growth" - whatever. Engaging in selfish behaviour tends to
reinforce that kind of behaviour, which I believe hinders one's ability
to become a better person.
So if one gains financially, for example, but takes a step backward in
their evolution as a person, then I could make the observation that the
selfish act was not really benefical to them, in the larger scheme of
things.
The existence of this larger scheme of things is not provable.
All actions have effects. It's the realization that things do no exist
in isolation . . . everything is interrelated. That is the larger
scheme of things.
Indeed to
argue for it's existence you'll have to take ressort to something as
nebulous as the Greek virtues.
Why should I aim for spiritual growth instead of worldly pleasure?
What you "should" or "should not" do is none of my concern, nor am I
qualified to offer such advice. I'm just making observations about what
I perceive to be the effects of selfish behaviour.
.
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| User: "AE" |
|
| Title: Re: Selfish vs. Self-interest |
03 Aug 2005 02:28:50 AM |
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ta wrote:
AE wrote:
ta wrote:
...
So if one gains financially, for example, but takes a step backward in
their evolution as a person, then I could make the observation that the
selfish act was not really benefical to them, in the larger scheme of
things.
The existence of this larger scheme of things is not provable.
All actions have effects. It's the realization that things do no exist
in isolation . . . everything is interrelated. That is the larger
scheme of things.
There is interaction, which makes things always terribly complex.
Fortunately the interaction is usually damped, so the actual effect of
my actions is minimal.
It's not like there would be a big plan or something like that - it's
more like a physical system with interacting particles.
And now you want to tell these particles to turn their spin all inone
direction, because there would be a larger scheme. Sorry, but this is no
ferrite crystal here - it's just the air in the room.
Indeed to argue for it's existence you'll have to take ressort to
something as nebulous as the Greek virtues.
Why should I aim for spiritual growth instead of worldly pleasure?
What you "should" or "should not" do is none of my concern, nor am I
qualified to offer such advice. I'm just making observations about what
I perceive to be the effects of selfish behaviour.
And these observations are biased due to a world-view I'd call religious.
.
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