On Dec 18, 1:54 pm, Rob Strom <st...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:

On Dec 18, 3:54 pm,

On Dec 18, 12:24 pm, Rob Strom <st...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:

On Dec 17, 3:26 am, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. Neither am
I telling you to accept the word of Scriptures. These things
are largely for believers. If you don't accept what the
Scriptures teach about the failure of the Law, perhaps you
just don't want to believe it is a failed covenant.

No. It's because the scriptures explicitly teach that
it is permanent.

Could you please enlighten us with verse numbers here?

So glad to oblige.
Though I am Jewish, I will use a Christian translation.

"throughout your generations", many places, especially:
Ex. 12:14, 12:17, 31:13, Lev. 23:41

"to a thousand generations", many places, especially Deut. 7:9,
and 1 Chr. 16:15.

"throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant", Ex. 31:16.

--
Rob Strom

OK, thank you. I have taken your three strongest points and commented
on them below. All in all, I am quite unconvinced, especially in
light of Jeremiah 31:27-37. There it is made clear that Israel did
break the covenant and was in danger of losing its inheritance
altogether as a result.

Exodus 31
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my
sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout
your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth
sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every
one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth
any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of
rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day,
he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe
the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in
six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he
rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with
him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone,
written with the finger of God.

This is one of the abominable passages, filled with hate: ostracize
and then kill anyone who violates the Sabbath. Insane, imho. Sheer
evil. The work of a fallen angel, indeed. The cost of the perpetual
covenant is pure fascistic evil enforced upon the people by the threat
of ostracism and death.

Deuteronomy 7
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye
were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all
people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath
which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out
with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from
the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God,
which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his
commandments to a thousand generations;
10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he
will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his
face.

Trying to justify the unjustifiable: why Israel was chosen at the
expense of all other peoples of the world. Here the covenant becomes
less unconditional and more contingent - "keepeth convenant and mercy
with them that love him and keep his commandments" - what happens when
they fall out of love or fail to keep the commandments? Again the
threat of utter destruction.

1 Chronicles 16
8: Give thanks unto the LORD, call upon his name, make known his deeds
among the people.
9: Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous
works.
10: Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek
the LORD.
11: Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
12: Remember his marvellous works that he hath done, his wonders, and
the judgments of his mouth;
13: O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen
ones.
14: He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
15: Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded
to a thousand generations;
16: Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath
unto Isaac;
17: And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for
an everlasting covenant,
18: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your
inheritance;
19: When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.

The covenant here is tied to the land of Canaan, which was "given" at
the expense of the Canaanites. There is a curious juxtaposition of a
more spiritual meaning involving the spiritual Israel and an
"everlasting covenant."