| Topic: |
Science > Philosophy |
| User: |
"SDR" |
| Date: |
08 May 2004 05:27:02 AM |
| Object: |
Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
(Mark K.) wrote in message news:<7a6f91bb.0405071702.65d4e087@posting.google.com>...
sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com (SDR) wrote in message news:<58087ec7.0405071055.55e2e76a@posting.google.com>...
And I don't really care whether the homicidal maniac is
Christian or Muslim. Jesus Christ!!!!!
But Rodent, aren't you judeist?
M.K.
No, I am jesuist. But, seriously...
Sorry, Marka-Ka, I don't support the Israelis because of
some third party reason but because they are mostly right.
And for the opposite reason, because they are mostly wrong,
I oppose the Islamic crusaders.
It is not because I am trying to promote one superstition
(Christianity) that I oppose a clearly worst one (Islam).
I oppose all superstitions. Belief in the supernatural is
always goofy and often fatal.
Though I often say it, I am not the fellow who's saying
there is no God. I am merely NOT the fellow who is saying
there is a God. So don't try to demand I prove there is no
God (as my fundamentalist cousins always insist I do). Sure
I can do that. But I don't have to, so there!
You don't KNOW there is a God, and I don't KNOW there
isn't a God. The key word there is "know." Human knowledge
does not extend to the existence of God. So don't demand
to know... one way or the other. I but ask of those who say
there is a God that they prove their claim. Is that too much?
It may be if Islam takes over the world. I shall be dead then
though. Thus I consider myself lucky to have cheated the ole
proverbial "fate worst than death" twice (I have lived in a world
where I didn't have to be superstitious, and I shall die in that
world... come what may.) I have been a lucky fellow!
All human beings are the same. Only their ideas differ.
Islam is a bad idea. But this doesn't mean it may not
take over the world and give us another thousand years of
dark, dark ages: When people can't have it all their way
sometimes they just stop caring what way they have it.
That's when Nazism and Communism and Islam move in.
If Islam takes over the world the End of The World will
come upon a mankind walking the Earth like zombies.
(People don't realize that it takes hundreds of years, and
perhaps even thousands, for Islam to suck out all the
humanity from a people... when they see Islamic nations
that were only recently taken over like Indonesia and those
which are closely bound to the non-Islamic world like
Turkey hanging on. But if Islam succeeds eventually you
will see the world zapped of all its splendor/glory.) Even
the Islamic Golden Age was but for the brief time that
the non-Islamic nations conquered by the sword of Islam
managed to survive in it apart from Islam. Then came
the death of all human knowledge, the death of civilization
itself. And men became merely the murmurers of the Koran.
I too am a kind of perfectionist myself; but only when I'm
building Tinkertoys & their ilk. The world of man is a messy
affair... though in my spare time I try to do some good in it,
whatever good that may do:
And if I defend Israel it's because it's the right thing to do,
because it makes me a better human being to do it; and not
because of any other reason than that one: And certainly not
because any one superstition is worthy of defending.
The triumph of the West, where it is due to the Judeo-Christian
tradition, is due to that tradition not having the Islamic will
to thwart human civilization. We in the West have been lucky
that we've been able to evade our superstitions (and in some
cases even push them out of the way). That's the difference.
When Israel is in the wrong don't look for me to defend her.
Just as don't look for me to defend those American bastards
who mistreat prisoners, whether in Iraq or in Michigan. They
do more damage to America than all al-Qaida put together.
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
.
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| User: "Zaphon B." |
|
| Title: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
10 May 2004 01:15:19 PM |
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Well SDR belief in the supernatural is always a personal belief or opinion.
Considering these goofy people who might be on the road to death (in your
opinion) can no more prove the existence of one of these superstitions say
ones belief in God any more then you can disprove their Gods existence, it
might behoove you to remember that you and those goofy fatalistic people and
you are merely looking at two sides of the same coin.
In my opinion you are no more right then they are. I have found that most
(and I'm only using this group as an example) hard core religious people
will if you push long and hard enough, tell you that there beliefs are a
matter of faith and personal opinion and belief.
In which case, anyone can believe anything they want to in this country, it
is only when they say I have to believe as they do that the trouble starts.
I can stand around all day telling someone how stupid they are to believe
what they believe but how ignorant would I be to think that my improvable
beliefs are any better or worse then theirs?
All of this is just my opinion though.
Zaphod.
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
news:58087ec7.0405080227.36cd45ef@posting.google.com...
I oppose all superstitions. Belief in the supernatural is
always goofy and often fatal.
Though I often say it, I am not the fellow who's saying
there is no God. I am merely NOT the fellow who is saying
there is a God. So don't try to demand I prove there is no
God (as my fundamentalist cousins always insist I do). Sure
I can do that. But I don't have to, so there!
You don't KNOW there is a God, and I don't KNOW there
isn't a God. The key word there is "know." Human knowledge
does not extend to the existence of God. So don't demand
to know... one way or the other. I but ask of those who say
there is a God that they prove their claim. Is that too much?
It may be if Islam takes over the world. I shall be dead then
though. Thus I consider myself lucky to have cheated the ole
proverbial "fate worst than death" twice (I have lived in a world
where I didn't have to be superstitious, and I shall die in that
world... come what may.) I have been a lucky fellow!
All human beings are the same. Only their ideas differ.
Islam is a bad idea. But this doesn't mean it may not
take over the world and give us another thousand years of
dark, dark ages: When people can't have it all their way
sometimes they just stop caring what way they have it.
That's when Nazism and Communism and Islam move in.
If Islam takes over the world the End of The World will
come upon a mankind walking the Earth like zombies.
(People don't realize that it takes hundreds of years, and
perhaps even thousands, for Islam to suck out all the
humanity from a people... when they see Islamic nations
that were only recently taken over like Indonesia and those
which are closely bound to the non-Islamic world like
Turkey hanging on. But if Islam succeeds eventually you
will see the world zapped of all its splendor/glory.) Even
the Islamic Golden Age was but for the brief time that
the non-Islamic nations conquered by the sword of Islam
managed to survive in it apart from Islam. Then came
the death of all human knowledge, the death of civilization
itself. And men became merely the murmurers of the Koran.
I too am a kind of perfectionist myself; but only when I'm
building Tinkertoys & their ilk. The world of man is a messy
affair... though in my spare time I try to do some good in it,
whatever good that may do:
And if I defend Israel it's because it's the right thing to do,
because it makes me a better human being to do it; and not
because of any other reason than that one: And certainly not
because any one superstition is worthy of defending.
The triumph of the West, where it is due to the Judeo-Christian
tradition, is due to that tradition not having the Islamic will
to thwart human civilization. We in the West have been lucky
that we've been able to evade our superstitions (and in some
cases even push them out of the way). That's the difference.
When Israel is in the wrong don't look for me to defend her.
Just as don't look for me to defend those American bastards
who mistreat prisoners, whether in Iraq or in Michigan. They
do more damage to America than all al-Qaida put together.
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
.
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| User: "SDR" |
|
| Title: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
10 May 2004 05:39:16 PM |
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"Zaphon B." <sagkc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<AyPnc.102887$oN1.83957@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...
You needn't apologize for your opinion, Zaphon:
It's as valid as anybody else's. But a couple of points.
1: People who believe in God believe He is omnipotent
and omniscient, so there's NO POINT WHATSOEVER in
trying to argue the logic/illogic of God's existence. And
2: I know there is no God, but I believe in Him: Because
belief in the ability of the Will to affect reality is hard-wired
into the human brain. Apparently this superstition is essential
for the mental health of our primitive brains. And since we
just can not believe that we ourselves can use the magic of
our own personal Will Power to do this (as this is just too goofy),
we can still believe it can be done through some "bargain" with
God (and the masters of organized religions & other cults use this
to define what "God" expects of thee... which usually includes
Mo Powah to Them). [pun, but no kidding]
Therefore, no human being can drive up to a traffic light without
praying... to try to affect the light one way or the other. And only
"space cadets" try to change the light by using mumbo jumbo, Luke.
"C'on, baybe! Turn green 4 me, now. You know I've been good."
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
re:
Well SDR belief in the supernatural is always a personal belief or opinion.
Considering these goofy people who might be on the road to death (in your
opinion) can no more prove the existence of one of these superstitions say
ones belief in God any more then you can disprove their Gods existence, it
might behoove you to remember that you and those goofy fatalistic people and
you are merely looking at two sides of the same coin.
In my opinion you are no more right then they are. I have found that most
(and I'm only using this group as an example) hard core religious people
will if you push long and hard enough, tell you that there beliefs are a
matter of faith and personal opinion and belief.
In which case, anyone can believe anything they want to in this country, it
is only when they say I have to believe as they do that the trouble starts.
I can stand around all day telling someone how stupid they are to believe
what they believe but how ignorant would I be to think that my improvable
beliefs are any better or worse then theirs?
All of this is just my opinion though.
Zaphod.
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
news:58087ec7.0405080227.36cd45ef@posting.google.com...
I oppose all superstitions. Belief in the supernatural is
always goofy and often fatal.
Though I often say it, I am not the fellow who's saying
there is no God. I am merely NOT the fellow who is saying
there is a God. So don't try to demand I prove there is no
God (as my fundamentalist cousins always insist I do). Sure
I can do that. But I don't have to, so there!
You don't KNOW there is a God, and I don't KNOW there
isn't a God. The key word there is "know." Human knowledge
does not extend to the existence of God. So don't demand
to know... one way or the other. I but ask of those who say
there is a God that they prove their claim. Is that too much?
It may be if Islam takes over the world. I shall be dead then
though. Thus I consider myself lucky to have cheated the ole
proverbial "fate worst than death" twice (I have lived in a world
where I didn't have to be superstitious, and I shall die in that
world... come what may.) I have been a lucky fellow!
All human beings are the same. Only their ideas differ.
Islam is a bad idea. But this doesn't mean it may not
take over the world and give us another thousand years of
dark, dark ages: When people can't have it all their way
sometimes they just stop caring what way they have it.
That's when Nazism and Communism and Islam move in.
If Islam takes over the world the End of The World will
come upon a mankind walking the Earth like zombies.
(People don't realize that it takes hundreds of years, and
perhaps even thousands, for Islam to suck out all the
humanity from a people... when they see Islamic nations
that were only recently taken over like Indonesia and those
which are closely bound to the non-Islamic world like
Turkey hanging on. But if Islam succeeds eventually you
will see the world zapped of all its splendor/glory.) Even
the Islamic Golden Age was but for the brief time that
the non-Islamic nations conquered by the sword of Islam
managed to survive in it apart from Islam. Then came
the death of all human knowledge, the death of civilization
itself. And men became merely the murmurers of the Koran.
I too am a kind of perfectionist myself; but only when I'm
building Tinkertoys & their ilk. The world of man is a messy
affair... though in my spare time I try to do some good in it,
whatever good that may do:
And if I defend Israel it's because it's the right thing to do,
because it makes me a better human being to do it; and not
because of any other reason than that one: And certainly not
because any one superstition is worthy of defending.
The triumph of the West, where it is due to the Judeo-Christian
tradition, is due to that tradition not having the Islamic will
to thwart human civilization. We in the West have been lucky
that we've been able to evade our superstitions (and in some
cases even push them out of the way). That's the difference.
When Israel is in the wrong don't look for me to defend her.
Just as don't look for me to defend those American bastards
who mistreat prisoners, whether in Iraq or in Michigan. They
do more damage to America than all al-Qaida put together.
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
.
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Green lights Was: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
10 May 2004 08:48:36 PM |
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SDR wrote:
(snip)
Therefore, no human being can drive up to a traffic light without
praying... to try to affect the light one way or the other. And only
"space cadets" try to change the light by using mumbo jumbo, Luke.
"C'on, baybe! Turn green 4 me, now. You know I've been good."
Strange that you should bring up asking traffic lights to turn green.
Many lights now contain metal detector coils in the roadway that you
must park on to play "Mother may I?" with the green light. Look for
lines that have been cut into the pavement and filled with tar to
cover the wires. I see people sitting too far into the intersection
(past the coil) with very impatient looks on their faces, having no
idea that as far as the light is concerned, they have already gone
through the intersection. They don't get a green till somebody pulls
up behind them.
Other kinds of signals have an overhead optical sensor that bounces an
infrared beam off your turn signal lenses (that act as a
retro-reflector to make them show up brightly in headlights so they
also return the infrared beam back to the sensor). Again. if you pull
up too far, your turn signal lenses may be out of the beam of the
overhead sensor so you don't get a green.
So getting a prompt green has nothing to do with whether or not you
have been good (or how well you beg), but a lot to do with where you
stop your car. I am a motorcyclist and have lots of fun trying to get
enough metal over just the right spot in the coils to be noticed. I
go through lots of red lights after giving up on "Mother may I?". I
don't pray to the lights, though. Superstition tries to fill in where
knowledge is missing.
It is strange that you hear so little official educational information
about the technology of traffic signals but you deal with them every
day. I think they enjoy tormenting those who think they are getting
ahead by pulling way to far into the intersection while waiting for
their green.
--
John Popelish
.
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| User: "Doc Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: Green lights Was: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
10 May 2004 09:02:29 PM |
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John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in
news:40A030F4.9D62D7BE@rica.net:
So getting a prompt green has nothing to do with whether or not you
have been good (or how well you beg), but a lot to do with where you
stop your car. I am a motorcyclist and have lots of fun trying to get
enough metal over just the right spot in the coils to be noticed. I
go through lots of red lights after giving up on "Mother may I?".
There's an intersection near me that utterly pisses me off because the car
sensor ignores single cars, especially (it seems) any car I'm in.
It is strange that you hear so little official educational information
about the technology of traffic signals but you deal with them every
day. I think they enjoy tormenting those who think they are getting
ahead by pulling way to far into the intersection while waiting for
their green.
I came up with "Traffic Laws of Physics" a few years ago while I was
working as a delivery driver. Some of them are:
Traffic Laws of Physics:
Creeping forward makes a red light turn green more quickly. Especially true
if you're first in line--you control the light for all of us!
Spinning your tires means you're going faster.
Tailgating means you're going faster.
Stopping on the wrong side of the stop bar makes the light change
sooner. And it means you'll go faster when the light changes.
The time you save by aggressive driving, speeding, etc. get
applied to the end of your life. (the Time Bank law) Do it enough
and you'll be immortal.
The bigger/flashier/pricier/tackier/louder your music/more fucked
up your paint/more expensive your rims are...the less that traffic
laws actually apply to YOU. (the Law of Exemption)
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Dr. Smartass is unnaturally high in carbohydrates, fats, and sodium.
Consult your physician before consuming Dr. Smartass.
Join us in atheism! There's nothing to be afraid of.
.
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| User: "Zaphon B." |
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| Title: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
10 May 2004 06:49:46 PM |
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Thank you SDR
On your first point. I believe in God, but to me
God is the active principal of causation, behind all other principals.
With my definition/belief I'm not sure the terms omnipotent and omniscient
would apply. For example if you asked me if God knew about x, y, z I would
likely say, he knows about it in the same way as the ocean is aware of each
individual wave.
There is never a point in trying to argue the logic or illogic of God's
existence. You can not prove the existence of God, anymore then you can
prove that one doesn't exist. Unless you would like to prove to me that God
doesn't exist?
I didn't think you would. In my experience most people who would take the
time to try and convince another that there is no God are trying to
accomplish what exactly? Rob another person of a belief that perhaps
comforts them or at least maybe it's something they can hang there reality
on. If it's a dangerous belief or Cult that's one thing but trying to
convince your run of the mill cracker Baptist that there isn't a God is sort
of cruel. If nothing else you're playing with an unarmed opponent and it's
not nice to pick on weaker people.
As far as your second point goes, I believe I understand what you're saying
that perhaps theist should believe that they have the power to create and
change things without having to depend on some mythical being that they have
made up in their heads that not only does all the creating but is also the
creator. You didn't mention it but the biggest advantage of this belief is
that it removes personal responsibility from all of the life and creation
processes. It's great to have both a God and Devil to blame all your dumb
***** mistakes on. Did I come close to what you were saying?
Well I believe (here I go again) that thoughts are things or
"Thoughts held in mind, produce after their kind".
Once you believe that thoughts are things and that they are the foundation
for all that you create or do in your life time, then it really behooves one
to take responsibility for their thoughts. First the thought, then the
spoken word, then the word is made manifest. I'm pretty sure it was the
point that was trying to be made in the book of John and it's pretty much
what the Greeks, I believe, were tripping on with the concept of "Logos".
So even though I would say I'm a Taoist with Christian tendencies, I don't
believe in no devil or evil so most of those Baptist folks would say I'm
going to hell.
Oh well, I hope they have good fries. :0)
Zaphod.
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
news:58087ec7.0405101439.2127f97f@posting.google.com...
"Zaphon B." <sagkc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<AyPnc.102887$oN1.83957@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...
You needn't apologize for your opinion, Zaphon:
It's as valid as anybody else's. But a couple of points.
1: People who believe in God believe He is omnipotent
and omniscient, so there's NO POINT WHATSOEVER in
trying to argue the logic/illogic of God's existence. And
2: I know there is no God, but I believe in Him: Because
belief in the ability of the Will to affect reality is hard-wired
into the human brain. Apparently this superstition is essential
for the mental health of our primitive brains. And since we
just can not believe that we ourselves can use the magic of
our own personal Will Power to do this (as this is just too goofy),
we can still believe it can be done through some "bargain" with
God (and the masters of organized religions & other cults use this
to define what "God" expects of thee... which usually includes
Mo Powah to Them). [pun, but no kidding]
Therefore, no human being can drive up to a traffic light without
praying... to try to affect the light one way or the other. And only
"space cadets" try to change the light by using mumbo jumbo, Luke.
"C'on, baybe! Turn green 4 me, now. You know I've been good."
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
re:
Well SDR belief in the supernatural is always a personal belief or
opinion.
Considering these goofy people who might be on the road to death (in
your
opinion) can no more prove the existence of one of these superstitions
say
ones belief in God any more then you can disprove their Gods existence,
it
might behoove you to remember that you and those goofy fatalistic people
and
you are merely looking at two sides of the same coin.
In my opinion you are no more right then they are. I have found that
most
(and I'm only using this group as an example) hard core religious people
will if you push long and hard enough, tell you that there beliefs are a
matter of faith and personal opinion and belief.
In which case, anyone can believe anything they want to in this country,
it
is only when they say I have to believe as they do that the trouble
starts.
I can stand around all day telling someone how stupid they are to
believe
what they believe but how ignorant would I be to think that my
improvable
beliefs are any better or worse then theirs?
All of this is just my opinion though.
Zaphod.
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
news:58087ec7.0405080227.36cd45ef@posting.google.com...
I oppose all superstitions. Belief in the supernatural is
always goofy and often fatal.
Though I often say it, I am not the fellow who's saying
there is no God. I am merely NOT the fellow who is saying
there is a God. So don't try to demand I prove there is no
God (as my fundamentalist cousins always insist I do). Sure
I can do that. But I don't have to, so there!
You don't KNOW there is a God, and I don't KNOW there
isn't a God. The key word there is "know." Human knowledge
does not extend to the existence of God. So don't demand
to know... one way or the other. I but ask of those who say
there is a God that they prove their claim. Is that too much?
It may be if Islam takes over the world. I shall be dead then
though. Thus I consider myself lucky to have cheated the ole
proverbial "fate worst than death" twice (I have lived in a world
where I didn't have to be superstitious, and I shall die in that
world... come what may.) I have been a lucky fellow!
All human beings are the same. Only their ideas differ.
Islam is a bad idea. But this doesn't mean it may not
take over the world and give us another thousand years of
dark, dark ages: When people can't have it all their way
sometimes they just stop caring what way they have it.
That's when Nazism and Communism and Islam move in.
If Islam takes over the world the End of The World will
come upon a mankind walking the Earth like zombies.
(People don't realize that it takes hundreds of years, and
perhaps even thousands, for Islam to suck out all the
humanity from a people... when they see Islamic nations
that were only recently taken over like Indonesia and those
which are closely bound to the non-Islamic world like
Turkey hanging on. But if Islam succeeds eventually you
will see the world zapped of all its splendor/glory.) Even
the Islamic Golden Age was but for the brief time that
the non-Islamic nations conquered by the sword of Islam
managed to survive in it apart from Islam. Then came
the death of all human knowledge, the death of civilization
itself. And men became merely the murmurers of the Koran.
I too am a kind of perfectionist myself; but only when I'm
building Tinkertoys & their ilk. The world of man is a messy
affair... though in my spare time I try to do some good in it,
whatever good that may do:
And if I defend Israel it's because it's the right thing to do,
because it makes me a better human being to do it; and not
because of any other reason than that one: And certainly not
because any one superstition is worthy of defending.
The triumph of the West, where it is due to the Judeo-Christian
tradition, is due to that tradition not having the Islamic will
to thwart human civilization. We in the West have been lucky
that we've been able to evade our superstitions (and in some
cases even push them out of the way). That's the difference.
When Israel is in the wrong don't look for me to defend her.
Just as don't look for me to defend those American bastards
who mistreat prisoners, whether in Iraq or in Michigan. They
do more damage to America than all al-Qaida put together.
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
.
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| User: "SDR" |
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| Title: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
11 May 2004 08:40:57 AM |
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"Zaphon B." <sagkc@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<8sUnc.104197$oN1.58072@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...
Thank you SDR
On your first point. I believe in God, but to me
God is the active principal of causation, behind all other principals.
Sorry, that's The Unified Field Thoery, not God.
I'll post the comprehensive explanation for the universe
in a month or so. (If I find the time and enthusiasm....
which is not easy to find when you know how spectacularly
pointless it is to point out to ants the meaning of their
existence).
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
.
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| User: "Zaphon B." |
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| Title: Re: What is George W. Bush doing still in Iraq? |
11 May 2004 11:49:34 AM |
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|
You say tomato and I say potato, er , well something like that. The last
interview I read that was done with Steven Hawkins one of his post graduate
students was interviewing him and of course they were talking string theory
and all the groovy quantum stuff and the question asked to Hawkins and I
don't have the exact context but "Are you talking about God", Hawkins reply
"Well you could call it God if you wanted to, but it would be a very
impersonal God."
That's my God, pretty impersonal, doesn't have a long white rope, doesn't
live in never-never land and really isn't aware of our exist, except perhaps
in the sense that you or I are aware of each and every heartbeat.
Z.
"SDR" <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> wrote in message
news:58087ec7.0405110540.75c130f2@posting.google.com...
"Zaphon B." <sagkc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<8sUnc.104197$oN1.58072@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...
Thank you SDR
On your first point. I believe in God, but to me
God is the active principal of causation, behind all other principals.
Sorry, that's The Unified Field Thoery, not God.
I'll post the comprehensive explanation for the universe
in a month or so. (If I find the time and enthusiasm....
which is not easy to find when you know how spectacularly
pointless it is to point out to ants the meaning of their
existence).
S D Rodrian
http://poems.sdrodrian.com
http://physics.sdrodrian.com
http://democracy.sdrodrian.com
.
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