* HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *

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Topic:	Science > Physics
User:	"Mohib N Durrani"
Date:	14 Sep 2004 08:41:52 PM
Object:	* HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *

Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)
Dr. Mohib. N. DURRANI, mnd0@columbia.edu, Copyright (c) 2004
Homepage: http://www.Hilal-Sighting.Com
SUBJECT: CRESCENT MOON: FIRST VISIBILITY (every lunar month)
**************************************************************
ISLAMIC Year and Month 1425 AH Shaban [8th Islamic Month]
Astronomical New Moon Date 2004 Sep 14d 14h 29m (UT) (Tue)
[INVISIBLE]
Sighting Date, Evening of 2004 Sep 14 (Tue) evening
Sighting Date Increase 0 [day(s) from Astro New Moon Date]
Event times are approximate Civil -- Clock -- Standard -- Time
(nearest) (+N,-S) (+E) Zone QIBLA SUN MOON AGEat [MOON - SUN]
Unaided-Eye
CITY LAT LONG -UT East SET SET Sunset Elg Alt Azm SIGHTING
*********** deg deg hr MagN Hr:Mn Hr:Mn Hr:Min Deg Deg Deg
**********
..MAKKAH-SArb 21.4 39.8 +3 0 18:26 18:33 0: 57 +3 +2 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
..DARSLM-Tnzn -6.8 39.2 +3 1 18:21 18:23 0: 52 +3 +0 +3 IMPOSSIBLE
%MOSCOW-Rusa 55.8 37.6 +3 176 18:50 19: 7 1: 21 +2 +2 -0 IMPOSSIBLE
%ISTNBUL-Trk 41.0 28.9 +2 152 18:16 18:29 1: 47 +2 +2 +1 IMPOSSIBLE
..CAIRO-Egypt 30.1 31.3 +2 137 18: 2 18:12 1: 33 +3 +2 +1 IMPOSSIBLE
..KHRTUM-Sudn 15.5 32.6 +2 48 17:53 18: 0 1: 24 +3 +2 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
..CPETOWN-SAf -33.8 18.6 +2 23 18:38*18:35 2: 9 +3 -0 +3 IMPOSSIBLE
..LAGOS-Nigra 6.5 3.4 +1 63 18:47 18:56 3: 18 +3 +2 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
..ALGIERS-Alg 36.8 3.0 +0 106 17:57 18:10 3: 28 +3 +3 +0 IMPOSSIBLE
%GRENWCH-Eng 51.5 0.0 +0 119 18:16 18:33 3: 47 +3 +3 -1 IMPOSSIBLE
..DAKAR-Sengl 14.7 -17.5 +0 74 19:11 19:23 4: 42 +3 +3 +1 IMPOSSIBLE
%RIOJNRO-Brz -22.9 -43.2 -3 68 17:46 17:57 6: 17 +4 +2 +3 IMPOSSIBLE
..PARAMRI-Sur 5.9 -55.2 -3 68 18:40 18:56 7: 11 +4 +4 +1 IMPOSSIBLE
..BNSARS-Argn -34.7 -58.4 -3 76 18:44 18:54 7: 15 +4 +2 +4 IMPOSSIBLE
%LIMA---Peru -12.4 -77.0 -5 72 18: 4 18:21 8: 35 +4 +4 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
%HALIFX-Cand 44.6 -63.6 -4 66 18:25 18:44 7: 56 +4 +3 -3 IMPOSSIBLE
%NEWYORK-USA 40.8 -74.0 -5 59 18: 6 18:26 8: 37 +5 +4 -3 IMPOSSIBLE
%MIAMI---USA 25.8 -80.2 -5 57 18:25 18:45 8: 56 +5 +4 -1 IMPOSSIBLE
%CHICAGO-USA 41.2 -87.6 -6 49 18: 0 18:20 9: 31 +5 +4 -3 IMPOSSIBLE
%DALLAS--USA 32.8 -96.8 -6 44 18:33 18:54 10: 4 +5 +4 -3 IMPOSSIBLE
%DENVER--USA 39.7 -105.0 -7 35 18: 9 18:31 10: 40 +5 +4 -3 IMPOSSIBLE
%SnDIEGO-USA 32.7 -117.1 -8 25 17:55 18:18 11: 26 +6 +5 -3 IMPOSSIBLE
%SnFRNCS-USA 37.7 -122.4 -8 19 18:17 18:40 11: 48 +6 +5 -4 IMPOSSIBLE
%VANCOVR-Cnd 49.3 -123.1 -8 17 18:26 18:49 11: 57 +6 +4 -5 IMPOSSIBLE
%ANCHORG-Als 61.1 -150.0 -9 351 19:23 19:44 13: 54 +7 +3 -7 IMPOSSIBLE
..HONOLU--Hwi 21.3 -157.5 -10 337 18:32 18:59 14: 3 +7 +6 -3 IMPOSSIBLE$
(INCREASE date one day, if crossing EAST TO WEST)
##################### INTERNATIONAL DATE LINE ######################
(DECREASE date one day, if crossing WEST TO EAST)
%SYDNEY-Aust -33.9 151.2 +10 278 17:46*17:22 -6: 43 +6 -5 +3 IMPOSSIBLE@
..TOKYO-Japan 35.7 139.7 +9 293 17:51 17:54 -5: 38 +4 +1 +4 IMPOSSIBLE
%BEIJING-Chn 39.9 116.4 +8 279 18:25 18:32 -4: 4 +4 +1 +3 IMPOSSIBLE
..JAKARTA-Ind -6.3 106.9 +7 295 17:51*17:44 -3: 38 +4 -2 +4 IMPOSSIBLE@
..DHAKA-BngDs 23.8 90.3 +6 278 18: 4 18: 7 -2: 25 +3 +1 +3 IMPOSSIBLE
..AGRA--India 27.2 77.9 +5 269 17:55 18: 1 -1: 34 +3 +1 +3 IMPOSSIBLE
..PESHAWR-Pks 33.6 71.4 +5 255 18:23 18:31 -1: 6 +3 +2 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
..BUKHRA-Uzbk 39.6 64.6 +4 237 17:53 18: 3 0:-36 +3 +2 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
..TEHRAN-Iran 35.7 51.4 +3 218 17:43 17:53 0: 14 +3 +2 +2 IMPOSSIBLE
*********************************************************
Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)
Dr. Mohib. N. DURRANI, mnd0@columbia.edu, Copyright (c) 2004
Homepage: http://www.Hilal-Sighting.Com
SUBJECT: CRESCENT MOON: FIRST VISIBILITY (every lunar month)
**************************************************************
ISLAMIC Year and Month 1425 AH Shaban [8th Islamic Month]
Astronomical New Moon Date 2004 Sep 14d 14h 29m (UT) (Tue)
[INVISIBLE]
Sighting Date, Evening of 2004 Sep 15 (Wed) evening
Sighting Date Increase 1 [day(s) from Astro New Moon Date]
Event times are approximate Civil -- Clock -- Standard -- Time
(nearest) (+N,-S) (+E) Zone QIBLA SUN MOON AGEat [MOON - SUN]
Unaided-Eye
CITY LAT LONG -UT East SET SET Sunset Elg Alt Azm SIGHTING
*********** deg deg hr MagN Hr:Mn Hr:Mn Hr:Min Deg Deg Deg
**********
..MAKKAH-SArb 21.4 39.8 +3 0 18:25 19: 8 24: 56 +12+10 -7 MOST PROBL
..DARSLM-Tnzn -6.8 39.2 +3 1 18:21 19:10 24: 52 +12+12 -1 MOST PROBL
%MOSCOW-Rusa 55.8 37.6 +3 176 18:47 19:14 25: 18 +13 +4 -12 IMPOSSIBLE
%ISTNBUL-Trk 41.0 28.9 +2 152 18:15 18:51 25: 46 +13<+7 -11 DIFFICULT
..CAIRO-Egypt 30.1 31.3 +2 137 18: 0 18:41 25: 31 +13 +9 -9 PROBABLE
..KHRTUM-Sudn 15.5 32.6 +2 48 17:52 18:37 25: 23 +12+11 -6 MOST PROBL
..CPETOWN-SAf -33.8 18.6 +2 23 18:38 19:37 26: 9 +13+12 +5 MOST PROBL
..LAGOS-Nigra 6.5 3.4 +1 63 18:47 19:37 27: 18 +13+12 -5 VISIBLE
..ALGIERS-Alg 36.8 3.0 +0 106 17:55 18:36 27: 26 +14<+8 -11 PROBABLE
%GRENWCH-Eng 51.5 0.0 +0 119 18:14 18:45 27: 45 +14 +5 -13 VERY DFCLT$
..DAKAR-Sengl 14.7 -17.5 +0 74 19:10 20: 1 28: 41 +14+12 -7 VISIBLE
%RIOJNRO-Brz -22.9 -43.2 -3 68 17:47 18:52 30: 18 +15+15 +2 VISIBLE
..PARAMRI-Sur 5.9 -55.2 -3 68 18:40 19:38 31: 11 +15+14 -6 VISIBLE
..BNSARS-Argn -34.7 -58.4 -3 76 18:45 19:57 31: 16 +15+14 +5 VISIBLE
%LIMA---Peru -12.4 -77.0 -5 72 18: 4 19:11 32: 35 +16+16 -1 VISIBLE
%HALIFX-Cand 44.6 -63.6 -4 66 18:23 19: 3 31: 54 +16 +7 -14 PROBABLE
%NEWYORK-USA 40.8 -74.0 -5 59 18: 4 18:48 32: 35 +16 +8 -14 PROBABLE
%MIAMI---USA 25.8 -80.2 -5 57 18:24 19:17 32: 55 +16+12 -11 VISIBLE
%CHICAGO-USA 41.2 -87.6 -6 49 17:58 18:42 33: 29 +17 +8 -15 MOST PROBL
%DALLAS--USA 32.8 -96.8 -6 44 18:31 19:22 34: 2 +17+10 -13 MOST PROBL
%DENVER--USA 39.7 -105.0 -7 35 18: 8 18:54 34: 39 +17 +9 -15 MOST PROBL
%SnDIEGO-USA 32.7 -117.1 -8 25 17:54 18:46 35: 25 +18+11 -14 VISIBLE
%SnFRNCS-USA 37.7 -122.4 -8 19 18:16 19: 5 35: 47 +18+10 -15 MOST PROBL
%VANCOVR-Cnd 49.3 -123.1 -8 17 18:24 19: 3 35: 55 +18 +6 -17 DIFFICULT
%ANCHORG-Als 61.1 -150.0 -9 351 19:20 19:42 37: 51 +19 +3 -19 IMPOSSIBLE$
..HONOLU--Hwi 21.3 -157.5 -10 337 18:32 19:34 38: 3 +19+14 -13 VISIBLE
(INCREASE date one day, if crossing EAST TO WEST)
##################### INTERNATIONAL DATE LINE ######################
(DECREASE date one day, if crossing WEST TO EAST)
%SYDNEY-Aust -33.9 151.2 +10 278 17:47 18:23 17: 18 +8 +7 +4 VERY DFCLT$
..TOKYO-Japan 35.7 139.7 +9 293 17:50 18:20 18: 21 +9 +6 -7 VERY DFCLT$
%BEIJING-Chn 39.9 116.4 +8 279 18:24 18:55 19: 55 +10<+6 -8 VERY DFCLT$
..JAKARTA-Ind -6.3 106.9 +7 295 17:51 18:31 20: 22 +10+10 -1 PROBABLE
..DHAKA-BngDs 23.8 90.3 +6 278 18: 3 18:40 21: 34 +10 +8 -6 DIFFICULT
..AGRA--India 27.2 77.9 +5 269 17:54 18:32 22: 25 +11 +8 -7 DIFFICULT
..PESHAWR-Pks 33.6 71.4 +5 255 18:21 18:58 22: 52 +11 +7 -8 DIFFICULT
..BUKHRA-Uzbk 39.6 64.6 +4 237 17:51 18:26 23: 22 +12<+7 -9 VERY DFCLT$
..TEHRAN-Iran 35.7 51.4 +3 218 17:42 18:19 24: 13 +12 +7 -9 DIFFICULT
*********************************************************
.

User: "Mike Hale"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 09:05:05 PM

"Mohib N Durrani" <mdurrani@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:A5N1d.5949$MS1.4899@trnddc02...

SIGHTING

*********** deg deg hr MagN Hr:Mn Hr:Mn Hr:Min Deg Deg Deg
**********

.MAKKAH-SArb 21.4 39.8 +3 0 18:26 18:33 0: 57 +3 +2 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

.DARSLM-Tnzn -6.8 39.2 +3 1 18:21 18:23 0: 52 +3 +0 +3

IMPOSSIBLE

%MOSCOW-Rusa 55.8 37.6 +3 176 18:50 19: 7 1: 21 +2 +2 -0

IMPOSSIBLE

%ISTNBUL-Trk 41.0 28.9 +2 152 18:16 18:29 1: 47 +2 +2 +1

IMPOSSIBLE

.CAIRO-Egypt 30.1 31.3 +2 137 18: 2 18:12 1: 33 +3 +2 +1

IMPOSSIBLE

.KHRTUM-Sudn 15.5 32.6 +2 48 17:53 18: 0 1: 24 +3 +2 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

.CPETOWN-SAf -33.8 18.6 +2 23 18:38*18:35 2: 9 +3 -0 +3

IMPOSSIBLE

.LAGOS-Nigra 6.5 3.4 +1 63 18:47 18:56 3: 18 +3 +2 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

.ALGIERS-Alg 36.8 3.0 +0 106 17:57 18:10 3: 28 +3 +3 +0

IMPOSSIBLE

%GRENWCH-Eng 51.5 0.0 +0 119 18:16 18:33 3: 47 +3 +3 -1

IMPOSSIBLE

.DAKAR-Sengl 14.7 -17.5 +0 74 19:11 19:23 4: 42 +3 +3 +1

IMPOSSIBLE

%RIOJNRO-Brz -22.9 -43.2 -3 68 17:46 17:57 6: 17 +4 +2 +3

IMPOSSIBLE

.PARAMRI-Sur 5.9 -55.2 -3 68 18:40 18:56 7: 11 +4 +4 +1

IMPOSSIBLE

.BNSARS-Argn -34.7 -58.4 -3 76 18:44 18:54 7: 15 +4 +2 +4

IMPOSSIBLE

%LIMA---Peru -12.4 -77.0 -5 72 18: 4 18:21 8: 35 +4 +4 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

%HALIFX-Cand 44.6 -63.6 -4 66 18:25 18:44 7: 56 +4 +3 -3

IMPOSSIBLE

%NEWYORK-USA 40.8 -74.0 -5 59 18: 6 18:26 8: 37 +5 +4 -3

IMPOSSIBLE

%MIAMI---USA 25.8 -80.2 -5 57 18:25 18:45 8: 56 +5 +4 -1

IMPOSSIBLE

%CHICAGO-USA 41.2 -87.6 -6 49 18: 0 18:20 9: 31 +5 +4 -3

IMPOSSIBLE

%DALLAS--USA 32.8 -96.8 -6 44 18:33 18:54 10: 4 +5 +4 -3

IMPOSSIBLE

%DENVER--USA 39.7 -105.0 -7 35 18: 9 18:31 10: 40 +5 +4 -3

IMPOSSIBLE

%SnDIEGO-USA 32.7 -117.1 -8 25 17:55 18:18 11: 26 +6 +5 -3

IMPOSSIBLE

%SnFRNCS-USA 37.7 -122.4 -8 19 18:17 18:40 11: 48 +6 +5 -4

IMPOSSIBLE

%VANCOVR-Cnd 49.3 -123.1 -8 17 18:26 18:49 11: 57 +6 +4 -5

IMPOSSIBLE

%ANCHORG-Als 61.1 -150.0 -9 351 19:23 19:44 13: 54 +7 +3 -7

IMPOSSIBLE

.HONOLU--Hwi 21.3 -157.5 -10 337 18:32 18:59 14: 3 +7 +6 -3

IMPOSSIBLE$

(INCREASE date one day, if crossing EAST TO WEST)
##################### INTERNATIONAL DATE LINE

######################

(DECREASE date one day, if crossing WEST TO EAST)

%SYDNEY-Aust -33.9 151.2 +10 278 17:46*17:22 -6: 43 +6 -5 +3

IMPOSSIBLE@

.TOKYO-Japan 35.7 139.7 +9 293 17:51 17:54 -5: 38 +4 +1 +4

IMPOSSIBLE

%BEIJING-Chn 39.9 116.4 +8 279 18:25 18:32 -4: 4 +4 +1 +3

IMPOSSIBLE

.JAKARTA-Ind -6.3 106.9 +7 295 17:51*17:44 -3: 38 +4 -2 +4

IMPOSSIBLE@

.DHAKA-BngDs 23.8 90.3 +6 278 18: 4 18: 7 -2: 25 +3 +1 +3

IMPOSSIBLE

.AGRA--India 27.2 77.9 +5 269 17:55 18: 1 -1: 34 +3 +1 +3

IMPOSSIBLE

.PESHAWR-Pks 33.6 71.4 +5 255 18:23 18:31 -1: 6 +3 +2 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

.BUKHRA-Uzbk 39.6 64.6 +4 237 17:53 18: 3 0:-36 +3 +2 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

.TEHRAN-Iran 35.7 51.4 +3 218 17:43 17:53 0: 14 +3 +2 +2

IMPOSSIBLE

*********************************************************
Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)
Dr. Mohib. N. DURRANI, mnd0@columbia.edu, Copyright (c) 2004
Homepage: http://www.Hilal-Sighting.Com

SUBJECT: CRESCENT MOON: FIRST VISIBILITY (every lunar month)
**************************************************************
ISLAMIC Year and Month 1425 AH Shaban [8th Islamic Month]
Astronomical New Moon Date 2004 Sep 14d 14h 29m (UT) (Tue)
[INVISIBLE]
Sighting Date, Evening of 2004 Sep 15 (Wed) evening
Sighting Date Increase 1 [day(s) from Astro New Moon Date]

Event times are approximate Civil -- Clock -- Standard -- Time
(nearest) (+N,-S) (+E) Zone QIBLA SUN MOON AGEat [MOON - SUN]
Unaided-Eye
CITY LAT LONG -UT East SET SET Sunset Elg Alt Azm

SIGHTING

*********** deg deg hr MagN Hr:Mn Hr:Mn Hr:Min Deg Deg Deg
**********

.MAKKAH-SArb 21.4 39.8 +3 0 18:25 19: 8 24: 56 +12+10 -7 MOST

PROBL

.DARSLM-Tnzn -6.8 39.2 +3 1 18:21 19:10 24: 52 +12+12 -1 MOST

PROBL

%MOSCOW-Rusa 55.8 37.6 +3 176 18:47 19:14 25: 18 +13 +4 -12

IMPOSSIBLE

%ISTNBUL-Trk 41.0 28.9 +2 152 18:15 18:51 25: 46 +13<+7 -11 DIFFICULT
.CAIRO-Egypt 30.1 31.3 +2 137 18: 0 18:41 25: 31 +13 +9 -9 PROBABLE
.KHRTUM-Sudn 15.5 32.6 +2 48 17:52 18:37 25: 23 +12+11 -6 MOST

PROBL

.CPETOWN-SAf -33.8 18.6 +2 23 18:38 19:37 26: 9 +13+12 +5 MOST

PROBL

.LAGOS-Nigra 6.5 3.4 +1 63 18:47 19:37 27: 18 +13+12 -5 VISIBLE

.ALGIERS-Alg 36.8 3.0 +0 106 17:55 18:36 27: 26 +14<+8 -11 PROBABLE
%GRENWCH-Eng 51.5 0.0 +0 119 18:14 18:45 27: 45 +14 +5 -13 VERY

DFCLT$

.DAKAR-Sengl 14.7 -17.5 +0 74 19:10 20: 1 28: 41 +14+12 -7 VISIBLE

%RIOJNRO-Brz -22.9 -43.2 -3 68 17:47 18:52 30: 18 +15+15 +2 VISIBLE
.PARAMRI-Sur 5.9 -55.2 -3 68 18:40 19:38 31: 11 +15+14 -6 VISIBLE
.BNSARS-Argn -34.7 -58.4 -3 76 18:45 19:57 31: 16 +15+14 +5 VISIBLE
%LIMA---Peru -12.4 -77.0 -5 72 18: 4 19:11 32: 35 +16+16 -1 VISIBLE

%HALIFX-Cand 44.6 -63.6 -4 66 18:23 19: 3 31: 54 +16 +7 -14 PROBABLE
%NEWYORK-USA 40.8 -74.0 -5 59 18: 4 18:48 32: 35 +16 +8 -14 PROBABLE
%MIAMI---USA 25.8 -80.2 -5 57 18:24 19:17 32: 55 +16+12 -11 VISIBLE
%CHICAGO-USA 41.2 -87.6 -6 49 17:58 18:42 33: 29 +17 +8 -15 MOST

PROBL

%DALLAS--USA 32.8 -96.8 -6 44 18:31 19:22 34: 2 +17+10 -13 MOST

PROBL

%DENVER--USA 39.7 -105.0 -7 35 18: 8 18:54 34: 39 +17 +9 -15 MOST

PROBL

%SnDIEGO-USA 32.7 -117.1 -8 25 17:54 18:46 35: 25 +18+11 -14 VISIBLE
%SnFRNCS-USA 37.7 -122.4 -8 19 18:16 19: 5 35: 47 +18+10 -15 MOST

PROBL

%VANCOVR-Cnd 49.3 -123.1 -8 17 18:24 19: 3 35: 55 +18 +6 -17 DIFFICULT

%ANCHORG-Als 61.1 -150.0 -9 351 19:20 19:42 37: 51 +19 +3 -19

IMPOSSIBLE$

.HONOLU--Hwi 21.3 -157.5 -10 337 18:32 19:34 38: 3 +19+14 -13 VISIBLE

(INCREASE date one day, if crossing EAST TO WEST)
##################### INTERNATIONAL DATE LINE

######################

(DECREASE date one day, if crossing WEST TO EAST)

%SYDNEY-Aust -33.9 151.2 +10 278 17:47 18:23 17: 18 +8 +7 +4 VERY

DFCLT$

.TOKYO-Japan 35.7 139.7 +9 293 17:50 18:20 18: 21 +9 +6 -7 VERY

DFCLT$

%BEIJING-Chn 39.9 116.4 +8 279 18:24 18:55 19: 55 +10<+6 -8 VERY

DFCLT$

.JAKARTA-Ind -6.3 106.9 +7 295 17:51 18:31 20: 22 +10+10 -1 PROBABLE

.DHAKA-BngDs 23.8 90.3 +6 278 18: 3 18:40 21: 34 +10 +8 -6 DIFFICULT
.AGRA--India 27.2 77.9 +5 269 17:54 18:32 22: 25 +11 +8 -7 DIFFICULT
.PESHAWR-Pks 33.6 71.4 +5 255 18:21 18:58 22: 52 +11 +7 -8 DIFFICULT
.BUKHRA-Uzbk 39.6 64.6 +4 237 17:51 18:26 23: 22 +12<+7 -9 VERY

DFCLT$

.TEHRAN-Iran 35.7 51.4 +3 218 17:42 18:19 24: 13 +12 +7 -9 DIFFICULT
*********************************************************

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???
.

User: "Aidan Karley"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 09:53:47 PM

In article <lrN1d.26676$XP3.22956@edtnps84>, Mike Hale wrote:

SUBJECT: CRESCENT MOON: FIRST VISIBILITY (every lunar month)
**************************************************************
ISLAMIC Year and Month 1425 AH Shaban [8th Islamic Month]
Astronomical New Moon Date 2004 Sep 14d 14h 29m (UT) (Tue)

[SNIP]

.TEHRAN-Iran 35.7 51.4 +3 218 17:42 18:19 24: 13 +12 +7 -9 DIFFICULT
*********************************************************

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a posting of predictions of the visibility of the crescent moon,
so is very definitely on topic. There are two groups of people who are
particularly interested in this - one small group of people who try to see
(and even photograph) the "youngest" moon they can after the time of
conjunction, which is an admirably pointless project comparable with stamp
collecting. And the other group interested are Muslims, since their calendar
is regulated not just by astronomically defined time, but also by this
decidedly subjective criterion of "can I actually see the horns of the
crescent moon. In this latter case they need to make sure that they're fasting
on the correct dates.
If you're not in one of these two groups, then you might not be
interested in the post. But unless it's printed out and then composted it's
not going to be much use for the rose bushes <G>.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57�10'11" N, 02�08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
.

User: "Mike Hale"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 10:12:00 PM

If you're not in one of these two groups, then you might not be
interested in the post. But unless it's printed out and then composted

it's

not going to be much use for the rose bushes <G>.

And Moe Hammad makes this all happen..right?
.

User: "Product developer"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 03:34:18 PM

"Mike Hale" <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote in message news:<4qO1d.20794$KU5.1444@edtnps89>...

If you're not in one of these two groups, then you might not be
interested in the post. But unless it's printed out and then composted

it's

not going to be much use for the rose bushes <G>.

And Moe Hammad makes this all happen..right?

Only with the help of Curly and Larry Mammad.
Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
.

User: "Mike Hale"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 11:05:49 PM

"Product developer" <jdurban@vorel.com> wrote in message
news:118afaeb.0409151234.25cb5135@posting.google.com...

"Mike Hale" <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote in message

news:<4qO1d.20794$KU5.1444@edtnps89>...

If you're not in one of these two groups, then you might not be
interested in the post. But unless it's printed out and then composted

it's

not going to be much use for the rose bushes <G>.

And Moe Hammad makes this all happen..right?

Only with the help of Curly and Larry Hammad.

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk

LMAO...
.

User: "Zark"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 11:55:48 PM

Aidan Karley said:

If you're not in one of these two groups, then you might not be
interested in the post. But unless it's printed out and then composted
it's not going to be much use for the rose bushes <G>.

Then why the crossposting to irrelevant newsgroups?
Sure, some of the people in these groups may be astronomers, and
some may be muslims, but for at least two of the newsgroups this
post is marginally on topic at best.
.

User: "Chris L Peterson"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 12:29:59 AM

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 04:55:48 GMT, Zark <Zark@Karz.com> wrote:

Which ones?
sci.astro - lots of astronomers, some of whom are interested in when the Moon is
marginally visible
sci.astro.amateur - same
sci.astro.planetarium - same, and this is material is both scientifically and
culturally interesting for anybody designing planetarium shows
sci.optics - the first and last times of Moon visibility are strongly influenced
by atmospheric refraction, scatter, and other optical phenomena, as well as the
optical properties of the eye itself.
sci.physics - same
I simply see no grounds to complain about the posting of this material on these
groups. It is fairly topical, and of interest to at least a minority of members
of each. It is pretty obvious that some people get upset just because the
motivation of the poster in collecting this data happens to be religious.
I've certainly got no respect for Islam. Or Christianity or any other baseless
superstition. But that doesn't mean that its adherents can't produce information
useful to others, and for different purposes. This is a perfect example of that.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
.

User: "DonJan"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	17 Sep 2004 08:28:19 AM

Chris L Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<57kfk0dsuf52511e5nn5b6ntd8q9i1aom8@4ax.com>...

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 04:55:48 GMT, Zark <Zark@Karz.com> wrote:

Which ones?

sci.astro - lots of astronomers, some of whom are interested in when the Moon is
marginally visible

sci.astro.amateur - same

sci.astro.planetarium - same, and this is material is both scientifically and
culturally interesting for anybody designing planetarium shows

sci.optics - the first and last times of Moon visibility are strongly influenced
by atmospheric refraction, scatter, and other optical phenomena, as well as the
optical properties of the eye itself.

sci.physics - same

I simply see no grounds to complain about the posting of this material on these
groups. It is fairly topical, and of interest to at least a minority of members
of each. It is pretty obvious that some people get upset just because the
motivation of the poster in collecting this data happens to be religious.

I've certainly got no respect for Islam. Or Christianity or any other baseless
superstition. But that doesn't mean that its adherents can't produce information
useful to others, and for different purposes. This is a perfect example of that.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

I would agree that this is of marginal interest. One or two postings is enough.
.

User: "Esmail Bonakdarian ebonak at hotmail dot com"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 07:26:33 AM

DonJan wrote:

Chris L Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<57kfk0dsuf52511e5nn5b6ntd8q9i1aom8@4ax.com>...

<...>

I would agree that this is of marginal interest. One or two postings is enough.

Hi,
Better yet, to post a link to a site containing this info perhaps.
Esmail
.

User: "Aidan Karley"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 10:00:13 AM

In article <57kfk0dsuf52511e5nn5b6ntd8q9i1aom8@4ax.com>, Chris L Peterson wrote:

I've certainly got no respect for Islam. Or Christianity or any other baseless
superstition. But that doesn't mean that its adherents can't produce information
useful to others, and for different purposes. This is a perfect example of that.

Indeed, a perfect example.
BTW, Discordian, Discworldian, Finegalian, or The Seventh Church of Rodney?

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57�10'11" N, 02�08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
.

User: "Martin Brown"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	16 Sep 2004 01:49:23 AM

In message <57kfk0dsuf52511e5nn5b6ntd8q9i1aom8@4ax.com>, Chris L
Peterson <clp@alumni.caltech.edu> writes

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 04:55:48 GMT, Zark <Zark@Karz.com> wrote:

I am inclined to agree.

Which ones?

sci.astro - lots of astronomers, some of whom are interested in when
the Moon is
marginally visible

But largely abandoned by serious amateurs because of poor signal to
noise. Mostly contains lunatic fringe theories of everything.

sci.astro.amateur - same

I think that this (s.a.a) is by far the most appropriate group concerned
with amateur observational astronomy and seeing the earliest possible
moon is a recognised challenge. The thinnest sliver of crescent moon in
a clear blue evening sky is in fact very beautiful and worth looking for
when you have the chance.
I do have a gripe with this months posting in that all the entries for
the first day 14/10 are "IMPOSSIBLE" and could be summarised in a single
line.
But it should not be so widely cross posted since it invariably attracts
the attention of "patriotic" xenophobes and ignorant bigots in some of
the other groups.

sci.astro.planetarium - same, and this is material is both scientifically and
culturally interesting for anybody designing planetarium shows

Also seems perfectly OK here too.

I simply see no grounds to complain about the posting of this material on these
groups. It is fairly topical, and of interest to at least a minority of members
of each. It is pretty obvious that some people get upset just because the
motivation of the poster in collecting this data happens to be religious.
I've certainly got no respect for Islam. Or Christianity or any other baseless
superstition. But that doesn't mean that its adherents can't produce
information
useful to others, and for different purposes. This is a perfect example

of that.
Although it would be nice if it didn't create a monthly firestorm. And
sadly his cross posting it to the 2 groups outside sci.astro.*
invariably provoke one :(
Regards,
--
Martin Brown
.

User: "Greg Crinklaw"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 10:53:15 AM

Zark wrote:

Sure, some of the people in these groups may be astronomers, and
some may be muslims, but for at least two of the newsgroups this
post is marginally on topic at best.

I'd say your basis for complaining is very thin and has more to do with
intolerance than anything else. Let it be.
--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)
SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html
Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html
To reply have a physician remove your spleen
.

User: "Esmail Bonakdarian ebonak at hotmail dot com"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 07:24:30 AM

Mike Hale wrote:

"Mohib N Durrani" <mdurrani@verizon.net> wrote in message

<..SNIP SNIP>

DFCLT$

.TEHRAN-Iran 35.7 51.4 +3 218 17:42 18:19 24: 13 +12 +7 -9 DIFFICULT
*********************************************************

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

Can't be that bad since you felt compelled to re-post ALL of it.
Nice going.
Esmail
.

User: "Shawn"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 09:33:03 PM

Mike Hale wrote:

"Mohib N Durrani" <mdurrani@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:A5N1d.5949$MS1.4899@trnddc02...

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

Sounds like the OP is letting Muslims who read these news groups know
when the month begins.
Off topic on the sci. ngs but not horse *****.
HTH
Shawn
.

User: "Davoud"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 10:28:36 PM

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Mike Hale <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.
Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.
I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.
Davoud
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
.

User: "Mike Hale"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	14 Sep 2004 11:54:37 PM

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

You sound like one too. Who is ignorant and who isn't?? This I gotta see.
I'm not the only one accused of _ hit and run, _tire tracs all across your
back
I can see you had your fun, but with you my signals turn, from to green, to
red, and with you
I can see a traffic jam..STRAIGHT UP AHEAD..you're- just -like...Crossstown
Traffic..all ya wanna do
is slow me down...
.

User: "Rudolph_X"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	18 Sep 2004 12:29:01 AM

Mike Hale wrote:

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

You sound like one too. Who is ignorant and who isn't?? This I gotta see.

I'm not the only one accused of _ hit and run, _tire tracs all across your
back
I can see you had your fun, but with you my signals turn, from to green, to
red, and with you
I can see a traffic jam..STRAIGHT UP AHEAD..you're- just -like...Crossstown
Traffic..all ya wanna do
is slow me down...

Probably some kind of Satanic coded message in this last post. If you
played it backwards, reversed speech, you'd probably hear the devil
himself talking!!! Ha!
.

User: "Steve Sands"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 03:40:49 PM

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote in message news:<140920042328366045%star@sky.net>...

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Mike Hale <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

Would the world be better off if every one of you were to vanish?
May all your prayer rugs acquire the ability to fly without user control.
.

User: "George Dishman"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 04:07:19 PM

"Steve Sands" <hybridyne2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4c9fff45.0409151240.2c440c9f@posting.google.com...

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote in message

news:<140920042328366045%star@sky.net>...

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Mike Hale <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

Would the world be better off if every one of you were to vanish?

May all your prayer rugs acquire the ability to fly without user control.

Why do you assume he is "one of them"? His views
are shared by a large percentage of the world of
all religious persuasions. Though I am British,
my sister-in-law lives in Florida so we have been
watching US tv news a lot recently and the
overwhelming impression I get of your presidential
campaigns is of two guys arguing over who has the
biggest mop to dry the floor while nobody is
wondering where the burst pipe might be. The only
way to beat the terrorists is to remove the
motivation of their supporters and until you start
to wonder what you are doing to elicit these sort
of attacks, nothing is going to change.
I desperately hope my view is wrong and just too
pessimistic but there seems to be very little
attempt by your media to understand this problem.
George
.

User: "Coater"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 06:32:53 PM

"George Dishman" <george@briar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1095282440.82654.0@*****.uk.clara.net...

"Steve Sands" <hybridyne2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4c9fff45.0409151240.2c440c9f@posting.google.com...

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote in message

news:<140920042328366045%star@sky.net>...

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Why do you assume he is "one of them"? His views
are shared by a large percentage of the world of
all religious persuasions. Though I am British,
my sister-in-law lives in Florida so we have been
watching US tv news a lot recently and the
overwhelming impression I get of your presidential
campaigns is of two guys arguing over who has the
biggest mop to dry the floor while nobody is
wondering where the burst pipe might be. The only
way to beat the terrorists is to remove the
motivation of their supporters and until you start
to wonder what you are doing to elicit these sort
of attacks, nothing is going to change.

I desperately hope my view is wrong and just too
pessimistic but there seems to be very little
attempt by your media to understand this problem.

George

Sorry about the wordiness, but what has to be said, shouldn't be said with
one-liners.
George,
First, given the atmosphere in the US right now, the simple beginning of the
good Dr's. notice is offensive to a large number of US Citizens. We are
asked to be more 'sensitive', and I believe it only a matter of common
courtesy for others to be a little sensitive to us. Although there may be
some helpful if not interesting calculations, the religious beginnings
(customary or otherwise) are still what many of us find offensive.
Now:
Thanks for the 'helpful suggestions'. I also have British relatives, and
still am amazed at the difference in opinions seen by them.
We (the US) have not been angels in our behavior, and I doubt anyone with
any intelligence would say so. We've backed some pretty rotten people;
Stalin, for example, WWII. BTW: you're welcome. In my opinion, it was
usually a choice of the lesser of two evils, but I'm sure there are other
opposing opinions on that subject. On the otherhand, I'd like to know just
what you think we did to deserve the hatred being spewed forth from radical
Muslims. These people (a term I use because I can think of no better civil
term) want all non Muslims dead, beginning with the Jews, and working its
way down to the not so strict Muslims.
Just what do you think we can give them to appease them? I ask this, because
being British, you have a history of appeasement that worked oh so well in
the past. Why does the British government not look deep within itself, and
find out why the Irish hate them, and do what is necessary to appease them?
It may only mean the massive disruption of many British lives, and the
giving in to a religion that a significant portion of the population cannot
tolerate. A small price to pay.
I would think that by now, it should be obvious that we (the world
population) are in a life-or-death struggle with fundamentalists that will
stop at nothing to gain their way. They are not fighting in defense of being
wrongfully attacked. They are fighting to ultimately conquer the earth with
their form of Islam. We have consistently opposed their rabid hatred for the
Jews. I'm sorry if this seems wrong to you. But, as I recall, it was the
British government that created the whole dispute. We (the Western World)
have given their oil rich countries trillions of dollars in oil revenue. So,
I would believe they have no reason to claim we have kept them in poverty.
The redistribution of wealth in Muslim countries should not be regulated by
us. It seems to me, they are their own worst enemies.
I have seen no real outrage from the Muslim countries concerning the brutal
beheadings of unarmed, helpless civilians. Where is the outrage for the
heinous slaughter of helpless school children? Surely these decent,
upstanding, mosque going Muslims attend the same mosques as their radical
Muslim friends, and must also know who the radicals are. Still, there is no
effort to quell the mad-dogs that are holding a major religion hostage. I
must conclude that the vast majority of Muslims would not mind seeing me and
my nation dead. I understand that it is not politically correct to throw ALL
people of a religion in one basket. I try not to do that. But, sometimes
there exceptions to the rule. I believe Muslims are in the process of
creating that exception, right now.
I believe my thoughts are coincident with those of millions of US Citizens.
We don't all agree on all the points, but I do believe it is important for
non US Citizens to get a perspective on our views, without name calling, or
irrational war-mongering.
Regards,
Coater
And, my apologies for using more bandwidth on off topic posts. It just
needed saying.
.

User: "Esmail Bonakdarian ebonak at hotmail dot com"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 07:32:54 AM

Coater wrote:

First, given the atmosphere in the US right now, the simple beginning
of the good Dr's. notice is offensive to a large number of US
Citizens.

Excuse me??? Are you referring to:
Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)
Why in the world would this be offensive to anyone, unless they are
perhaps an atheist (but even that's stretching it).
The horror!
You realize that Allah is the Arabic word for God, so calling God
most beneficent and merciful is offensive?? I would have never guessed.
Sometimes it seems people are just looking really hard to find
divisions amongst each other.... there are lots of other, real problems
that need our attention.
Esmail
.

User: "West Coast Engineering"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 09:19:07 AM

Esmail Bonakdarian <"ebonak at hotmail dot com"> wrote:

Coater wrote:

First, given the atmosphere in the US right now, the simple beginning
of the good Dr's. notice is offensive to a large number of US
Citizens.

Excuse me??? Are you referring to:

Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)

Most respectfully,
I would think that the followers of a god who is "most merciful" would
not take life so seriously that they could not tolerate those who
would believe differently than they do.
Then again, Christians have been just as "merciful"
Could it possibly be that the darker parts of our human spirit, the
parts that come from our inner, animal brain, have created the
individual gods to which we pray and for which we kill?
Jim Klein
.

User: "Esmail Bonakdarian ebonak at hotmail dot com"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 10:02:52 AM

West Coast Engineering wrote:

Esmail Bonakdarian <"ebonak at hotmail dot com"> wrote:

Coater wrote:

First, given the atmosphere in the US right now, the simple beginning
of the good Dr's. notice is offensive to a large number of US
Citizens.

Excuse me??? Are you referring to:

Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)

agreed!
I don't think any religion, or group of people, have a monopoly
on cruelty. The vast majority of people (including Muslims) are appalled
by terrorist acts. To think otherwise as some do (I am not saying you,
your message in fact points the other way) is to think of David Koresh
and Timothy McVeigh as prototypes for U.S. Christians (toss in Jerry
Falwell if so inclined) .. quite obviously distorted and wrong. (I'm
not tossing in Falwell with terrorists, but rather an example of how
he, IMHO, does not represent main stream Christianity to me)
We must be careful not to allow a relatively small minority to try
to falsely represent the majority.

Could it possibly be that the darker parts of our human spirit, the
parts that come from our inner, animal brain, have created the
individual gods to which we pray and for which we kill?

I would hope not.
Esmail (quite OT now .. back to astronomy)
.

User: "West Coast Engineering"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 12:11:25 PM

Esmail Bonakdarian <"ebonak at hotmail dot com"> wrote:

West Coast Engineering wrote:

Esmail Bonakdarian <"ebonak at hotmail dot com"> wrote:

Coater wrote:

First, given the atmosphere in the US right now, the simple beginning
of the good Dr's. notice is offensive to a large number of US
Citizens.

Excuse me??? Are you referring to:

Bismillah hir-Rahman nir-Rahim
(In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)

agreed!

I don't think any religion, or group of people, have a monopoly
on cruelty. The vast majority of people (including Muslims) are appalled
by terrorist acts. To think otherwise as some do (I am not saying you,
your message in fact points the other way) is to think of David Koresh
and Timothy McVeigh as prototypes for U.S. Christians (toss in Jerry
Falwell if so inclined) .. quite obviously distorted and wrong. (I'm
not tossing in Falwell with terrorists, but rather an example of how
he, IMHO, does not represent main stream Christianity to me)

We must be careful not to allow a relatively small minority to try
to falsely represent the majority.

Could it possibly be that the darker parts of our human spirit, the
parts that come from our inner, animal brain, have created the
individual gods to which we pray and for which we kill?

I would hope not.

I would hope not too but then Hitler thought he had god on his side so
"his" god must not have been a good guy (aka an evil god).
Jim Klein

Esmail (quite OT now .. back to astronomy)

User: "Rudolph_X"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	19 Sep 2004 07:40:54 PM

Esmail Bonakdarian wrote:

Coater wrote:

First, given the atmosphere in the US right now, the simple beginning
of the good Dr's. notice is offensive to a large number of US
Citizens.

No, they are not atheists, they are Satanists, friggin' devil
worshipping freaks.
.

User: "Davoud"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 04:49:26 PM

Mohib N Durrani:

Ignoramus Mike Hale:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

Davoud:

Steve Sands:

Would the world be better off if every one of you were to vanish?

I don't know. When you say "you," I assume you are referring to my
religion. The United Methodist Church, of which I am a life-long
member, is one of the larger Protestant denominations in the United
States, but unless there are things going on sub rosa of which I am
unaware, I feel quite certain that we aren't widely perceived as a
threat to U.S. or world security and stability.
If as I suspect, you were referring to the adherents of Islam, the
question is moot, because Islam is not going to disappear. The
foregoing statement is an example of what is known as "realpolitik."
That's why I advocate understanding and dealing with Islam in an
intelligent manner rather than stumbling in the darkness (a gross
understatement) in ignorance.

May all your prayer rugs acquire the ability to fly without user control.

We Methodists don't use prayer rugs ritually,* but thanks for the
blessing, anyway.
Davoud
*That I own a few as a result of having lived in the Middle East for
some years is coincidental and irrelevant.
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
.

User: "Coater"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening of Tue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 06:41:00 PM

"Davoud" <star@sky.net> wrote in message
news:150920041749269400%star@sky.net...

Mohib N Durrani:

<snip>

No, that would be the Baptists. ;^)

If as I suspect, you were referring to the adherents of Islam, the
question is moot, because Islam is not going to disappear. The
foregoing statement is an example of what is known as "realpolitik."

Yes, that is the reality. The other reality is, neither are we. We being the
rest of the world. The world that it seems radical Muslims can't seem to get
along with.
Shouldn't conversion to a religion be done by setting an example of good
deeds and decency?
Beheading of unarmed, helpless civilians, the demolition and back-shooting
of fleeing school children are hardly conducive to religious conversion. On
the contrary, it invites the scourn of all decent human beings.
It seems radical fundamentalists have regressed to the early days of
religious puberty where they have to forcefully establish themselves. Do
they not understand that their religion is already established? We can ill
afford the kind of warfare that religious wars will entail with today's
weapons.

That's why I advocate understanding and dealing with Islam in an
intelligent manner rather than stumbling in the darkness (a gross
understatement) in ignorance.

I'm really trying to understand, but there are many Muslims that are going
out of their way to convince me the world would be better without them.
<snip>
Regards,
Coater
.

User: "Uncle Al"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	15 Sep 2004 03:59:31 PM

Steve Sands wrote:

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote in message news:<140920042328366045%star@sky.net>...

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Mike Hale <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

Would the world be better off if every one of you were to vanish?

May all your prayer rugs acquire the ability to fly without user control.

Syrian Red in Arabian carpets is the alum mordant of Syrian rue seed
extract - a collection of harmine alkaloids. They are hallucinogenic
as all get out. Snuggling your sweating butt on a bright red carpet
for an hour may indeed get you flying.
Islam was once the proud protector of human civilization when the
Church of Rome decided to extinct the tree of knowledge - the Age of
Faith. Catholicism has atrophied to dried crap and Islam now holds
its chalice of boiling blood. Unless you want to wait 500 years for
Islam's fanatic vicious stupidity to wither and die in turn, the
simple and economic solution is to globally ablate its adherents in
real time.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.

User: "Rudolph_X"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	18 Sep 2004 12:34:27 AM

Uncle Al wrote:

Steve Sands wrote:

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote in message news:<140920042328366045%star@sky.net>...

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Mike Hale <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

Would the world be better off if every one of you were to vanish?

May all your prayer rugs acquire the ability to fly without user control.

Syrian Red in Arabian carpets is the alum mordant of Syrian rue seed
extract - a collection of harmine alkaloids. They are hallucinogenic
as all get out. Snuggling your sweating butt on a bright red carpet
for an hour may indeed get you flying.

Islam was once the proud protector of human civilization when the
Church of Rome decided to extinct the tree of knowledge - the Age of
Faith. Catholicism has atrophied to dried crap and Islam now holds
its chalice of boiling blood. Unless you want to wait 500 years for
Islam's fanatic vicious stupidity to wither and die in turn, the
simple and economic solution is to globally ablate its adherents in
real time.

What Satainc cult do you belong to?
.

User: "Rudolph_X"
Title: Re: * HILAL SIGHTING (Crescent Moon) Shaban 1425 AH, Evening ofTue/Wed 14/15 Sep 2004 CE *	18 Sep 2004 12:24:23 AM

Steve Sands wrote:

Davoud <star@sky.net> wrote in message news:<140920042328366045%star@sky.net>...

Mohib N Durrani wrote:

Mike Hale <Mikhale@yahoo.net> wrote:

WTF is THIS HORSE-*****???

It's a set of astromonical data, ignoramus. Moreover, it's not just any
set of data, but a set that is very important to more than one billion
people, and, more to the point, to a lot of astronomers, both amateur
and professional -- some of whom read these newsgroups. There is no
other set of astronomical data that is personally important to so many
people.

Furthermore, this group of more than one billion people, considered
collectively, is the focus of great interest and concern to the United
States at the moment. Ignoramuses like you, who called something very
important, and even sacred to these people, "horse-*****," have been
trying to figure out how to deal with these people for many years.
These ignoramuses have failed miserably, as made evident by events that
have occurred in the past several years, and most particularly by the
events of 2001/09/11. The best that the current group of ignoramuses
have come up with is to invade one of these peoples' lands, which is
curious, because the land that they invaded had nothing to do with the
events that have caused the United States to be interested and
concerned with this group, thus causing even more concern about these
people.

I don't hold much hope that our attempts to come to terms with this
group of over one billion people will succeed as long as arrogant
ignoramuses like you and the current U.S. ruling regime are out and
about trumpeting the fact that they are ignorant and proud to be
ignorant.

Davoud

Would the world be better off if every one of you were to vanish?

May all your prayer rugs acquire the ability to fly without user control.

Typical example of a cult member trying to cast an evil spell. It is
not hard to sense the pure evil in that last post. They are probably all
Satanist trying to deflect attention away from their hideous cults and
toward the scape-goated Muslims.
.

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