A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !!



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Y.Porat"
Date: 03 Aug 2005 03:55:11 AM
Object: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !!
A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!
(copyright Y.P 3-8-05) unless someone was preceding me...)
now let's see how long it will take you to make the right conclusions-
out of that assertion.
to make *conclusions* out of it seems to be only my copyright idea
.......
PS Uncle Al stay away ............
TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------
.

User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 04 Aug 2005 04:11:28 AM
Now
just an amendment to my above assertion:
The photon is an exception to the above rule
it might be a point particle and still behave like
a wave.
The photon is an exception to other known rules as well!!
ATB
Y.Porat
-------------------------
.

User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave likea wave !! 04 Aug 2005 08:58:36 AM
Y.Porat wrote:


A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-Particle_duality
"In physics, wave-particle duality holds that light and matter can
exhibit properties of both waves and of particles. This concept is
a key part of quantum mechanics".
This has been shown to hold true for any number of elementary
particles and large assemblages of atoms including buckyballs and
viruses.
.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 04 Aug 2005 09:54:16 AM
Sam Wormley wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:


A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!


Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-Particle_duality

"In physics, wave-particle duality holds that light and matter can
exhibit properties of both waves and of particles. This concept is
a key part of quantum mechanics".

Hi Sam
did i said something different ??? (:-)
i said exactly the same !!
yet i am afraid you didnt got my hidden point:
it is that most particles we know like electrons
positrons (no need to mention protons and Neutrons)
are *not point particles*
they are composite particles!!
and while you have a composite particle (of many sub particles]
it can 'deform its geometric shape'!! rhythmically
and behave like a wave
(i am afraid yet to mention my Eel model for the electron-
so i will do it only later ...)
and of course it depends as well once being in a field!!
but any field as for itself is a product of particles!!
do you agree with me??
do you know a field that was not created by the assistance
of matter??
so my suggestion is that the combination of a particle
(as composite creature) to gather with the field
makes the wave behavior
now thinking about it a second thought
i made the exclusion amendment:
IE the Photon is an exception to the above rule
as well as it is an exception to other rules
IE the Photon is a creature for itself to deal with.
it can be based on a point particle' and yet behave
like a wave !!
btw there is still a question i ask myself:
is there a case of a particle that beeves like a wave
*without being in a field?? (except the photon??
(and please dont tell me that the photon is not a particle
because i know that claim but not agree with it )


This has been shown to hold true for any number of elementary
particles and large assemblages of atoms including buckyballs and
viruses.

wonderful it fits nicely my general idea!!!
and i would say rather a fortification to it !!
hope you got me
TIA
Y.Porat
--------------
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave likea wave !! 04 Aug 2005 11:06:31 AM
Y.Porat wrote:

Sam Wormley wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

A 'Point particle ( or a Finite particle'') cannot behave like a wave
!!


Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-Particle_duality

"In physics, wave-particle duality holds that light and matter can
exhibit properties of both waves and of particles. This concept is
a key part of quantum mechanics".



Hi Sam

did i said something different ??? (:-)

You said a '"Finite particle" cannot behave like a wave!'
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-Particle_duality
"In physics, wave-particle duality holds that light and matter can
exhibit properties of both waves and of particles. This concept is
a key part of quantum mechanics".
This has been shown to hold true for any number of elementary
particles and large assemblages of atoms including buckyballs and
viruses.
.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 04 Aug 2005 11:43:51 PM
have you read my reply to that ???
it seems that you just copied your former
post without relating to mine!!
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------
.




User: "Patty"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 03 Aug 2005 04:39:39 AM
Y.Porat wrote:

A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!

(copyright Y.P 3-8-05) unless someone was preceding me...)

now let's see how long it will take you to make the right conclusions-
out of that assertion.
to make *conclusions* out of it seems to be only my copyright idea
......

PS Uncle Al stay away ............

TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------

Let me educate you as you are so lost.
Imagine you are boiling water, bubbles are being formed. The
bubbles represent the electrons, and the boiling water the
field. So electrons are more like oscillations of the dirac
field.
The field is primary, particles are just quantized part of it.
Don't you understand??
Don't worry. I'd send you a free book I'm writing now called
"Cranks, crackpots and the Standard model" where you will be
featured in it along with Lockyer, Sefton, Mccutcheon, Dr.
Yoon and others who are so lost they can lead a generation
of physics illiterate.
Patty
.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 03 Aug 2005 08:35:21 AM
Patty wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!

(copyright Y.P 3-8-05) unless someone was preceding me...)

now let's see how long it will take you to make the right conclusions-
out of that assertion.
to make *conclusions* out of it seems to be only my copyright idea
......

PS Uncle Al stay away ............

TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------


Let me educate you as you are so lost.

Imagine you are boiling water, bubbles are being formed. The
bubbles represent the electrons,

-----------
i just wonder who is lost.......
why should i take your primitive metaphor as representing the
electron??
common pompous dude:
don't you parrot mathematician that considers himself a teacher in
physics
realize that *(listen carefully Poppy)*
a bubble is not a finite particle!!
got it idiot?? do you have some reading comprehension??
it is composed of millions of sub particles got it pompy??
and the boiling water the

field.

----------
from when on boiling water is a field??
2 if an electron behaves *in a real field* -- like a wave
may be it is from some other reasons than a parrot can imagine??!!
-----
So electrons are more like oscillations of the Dirac

field.

-----------
electrons never hear ed about Dirac got it mathematics parrot??
electrons are natures creation that an idiot like you didn't got until
now
the Dirac field might be just a poor model of it !!


The field is primary, particles are just quantized part of it.

particles are quantized parts of a field Eh ???
and without a field there is no particles??
had you asked yourself just that simple question you would not
bring here your stupidity.


Don't you understand??

no i don't understand what you dint understand!!
before educating others educate yourself with reasonable thinking
not just stupid parroting.


Don't worry. I'd send you a free book I'm writing now called
"Cranks, crackpots and the Standard model" where you will be

you should read your book first
so ***** of my mack and deal with your idiotic Friends
not with me
because i don't what to deal with you or alike you anymore!!
let more open minded people than you and more cleaver get in
Y.Porat
--------------------
.
User: "Patty"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 03 Aug 2005 06:35:56 PM
Y.Porat wrote:

Patty wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!

(copyright Y.P 3-8-05) unless someone was preceding me...)

now let's see how long it will take you to make the right conclusions-
out of that assertion.
to make *conclusions* out of it seems to be only my copyright idea
......

PS Uncle Al stay away ............

TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------


Let me educate you as you are so lost.

Imagine you are boiling water, bubbles are being formed. The
bubbles represent the electrons,


-----------
i just wonder who is lost.......

why should i take your primitive metaphor as representing the
electron??

common pompous dude:
don't you parrot mathematician that considers himself a teacher in
physics
realize that *(listen carefully Poppy)*
a bubble is not a finite particle!!
got it idiot?? do you have some reading comprehension??

it is composed of millions of sub particles got it pompy??

air bubble i mean



and the boiling water the

field.

----------
from when on boiling water is a field??

The quantum vacuum has micro fluctuations like boiling water.
The field is one of its inbodiment. When one say an electron
has wave properties. It is because it is part of the field.
This means the particle is just a secondary effect of the field.
Without any field, there is no particle.
In your case. you are trying to model the particle like its
some classical object like a baseball. In this way, you conclude
a point particle can't have wave properties... which is erroneous.
Get it now?
Einstein, Dirac, Born, Feynman, etc. These folks are almost
living imbodiments of God. So parrotting is like praying to
them and God.
Also note our parrotting talies with billions of dollars worth
of experiments and mathemetical model which is the language of
reality. Where's your evidence or proof, genius? Stop wasting
time imagining things. Study some basic physics stuff.
Patty


2 if an electron behaves *in a real field* -- like a wave
may be it is from some other reasons than a parrot can imagine??!!
-----


So electrons are more like oscillations of the Dirac

field.

-----------
electrons never hear ed about Dirac got it mathematics parrot??
electrons are natures creation that an idiot like you didn't got until
now

the Dirac field might be just a poor model of it !!


The field is primary, particles are just quantized part of it.


particles are quantized parts of a field Eh ???

and without a field there is no particles??

had you asked yourself just that simple question you would not
bring here your stupidity.


Don't you understand??

no i don't understand what you dint understand!!
before educating others educate yourself with reasonable thinking
not just stupid parroting.


Don't worry. I'd send you a free book I'm writing now called
"Cranks, crackpots and the Standard model" where you will be


you should read your book first

so ***** of my mack and deal with your idiotic Friends
not with me
because i don't what to deal with you or alike you anymore!!

let more open minded people than you and more cleaver get in

Y.Porat
--------------------

.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 04 Aug 2005 12:30:25 AM
Patty wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

Patty wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!

(copyright Y.P 3-8-05) unless someone was preceding me...)

now let's see how long it will take you to make the right conclusions-
out of that assertion.
to make *conclusions* out of it seems to be only my copyright idea
......

PS Uncle Al stay away ............

TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------


Let me educate you as you are so lost.

Imagine you are boiling water, bubbles are being formed. The
bubbles represent the electrons,


-----------
i just wonder who is lost.......

why should i take your primitive metaphor as representing the
electron??

common pompous dude:
don't you parrot mathematician that considers himself a teacher in
physics
realize that *(listen carefully Poppy)*
a bubble is not a finite particle!!
got it idiot?? do you have some reading comprehension??

it is composed of millions of sub particles got it pompy??


air bubble i mean



and the boiling water the

field.

----------
from when on boiling water is a field??


The quantum vacuum has micro fluctuations

if i follow the rest of your post
you only *start to make sense
but once you say that 'quantum vacuum has micro fluctuations'
*you are not in a position to teach me physics * got it
that is your private imagination!1
so don't complain about My imagination .. (:-)
like boiling water.

The field is one of its embodiment. When one say an electron
has wave properties. It is because it is part of the field.

only now while you actually corrected yourself
you only *start* to make sense!!
yet being a particle does not depend on being in a field or not
will you admit your mistake??
only is you admit it i will take you as a responsible honest
and sincere scintist..!
---------

This means the particle is just a secondary effect of the field.
Without any field, there is no particle.

here you go again with your nonsense!!
no one except you claimers that !!
(are you in a position to write a book about crackpots ??)


In your case. you are trying to model the particle like its
some classical object like a baseball.

not at all
you are too jumpy and understood me quite the opposite way
i didnt want to 'spill' it too soon but my intention was exactly the
opposite.
i intended to lead the readers to exactly to the opposite direction
IE that say an electron is not a point particle More a baseball
nor even a finite particle but ........
composed of smaller sub particles !! got it Mr jumpy ???
---------
---------
In this way, you conclude

a point particle can't have wave properties... which is erroneous.

indeed a point particle cannot have any wave properties
and now i will add the amendment which i forgot to add::
THE PHOTON IS AN EXCEPTION TO MY ABOVE RULE!!
as usual the photon is in many cases an exceptions to rules.
----------


Get it now?

yes and you get it now ???
--------


Einstein, Dirac, Born, Feynman, etc. These folks are almost
living imbodiments of God. So parroting is like praying to
them and God.

---------
here is one of your big mistakes !!
not anything those great scientists claimed is right
just for another example;
Einsteins 'curved space-time' was a big flop that coasted
a huge wast of hum an energy!!!
could you believe it ???
his other innovations are admirable he is Worth to be
the scientist of the 20 th century!!
so the different between an intelligent person and a parrot
is to take those 'tiny ' differences.
btw are you going to write a book about
parrots in the history of science?? (:-)
you could do together with me a real fortune on such a book 1(:-)
-------------
----------


Also note our parroting talies with billions of dollars worth
of experiments and mathemetical model which is the language of
reality.

here is your exaggeration again
mathematics is not th leader of pioneering science
btw have you ever done any pioneering science
beside your * all particles that can exist only in fields ??*
--------
Where's your evidence or proof,
see just some hints of it in my home made site
genius? Stop wasting

time imagining things. Study some basic physics stuff.

i am doing all my life
now its your turn to do it but not as a parrot
use your mind (provided you have some!!
and dont forget:
in addition to all the above -
some personal integrity is needed
and the understanding that was found thousands years ago:
'Human um errata est' hope i spelled it right it is ancient Roman.

----------

ATB
Y.Porat
PS i intent to respect much more people who attend here
with their real identity- that is the first sign of integrity!!
---------------------



2 if an electron behaves *in a real field* -- like a wave
may be it is from some other reasons than a parrot can imagine??!!
-----


So electrons are more like oscillations of the Dirac

field.

-----------
electrons never hear ed about Dirac got it mathematics parrot??
electrons are natures creation that an idiot like you didn't got until
now

the Dirac field might be just a poor model of it !!


The field is primary, particles are just quantized part of it.


particles are quantized parts of a field Eh ???

and without a field there is no particles??

had you asked yourself just that simple question you would not
bring here your stupidity.


Don't you understand??

no i don't understand what you dint understand!!
before educating others educate yourself with reasonable thinking
not just stupid parroting.


Don't worry. I'd send you a free book I'm writing now called
"Cranks, crackpots and the Standard model" where you will be


you should read your book first

so ***** of my mack and deal with your idiotic Friends
not with me
because i don't what to deal with you or alike you anymore!!

let more open minded people than you and more cleaver get in

Y.Porat
--------------------

.
User: "Patty"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 04 Aug 2005 01:15:46 AM
Y.Porat wrote:

Patty wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

Patty wrote:

Y.Porat wrote:

A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave
!!

(copyright Y.P 3-8-05) unless someone was preceding me...)

now let's see how long it will take you to make the right conclusions-
out of that assertion.
to make *conclusions* out of it seems to be only my copyright idea
......

PS Uncle Al stay away ............

TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------


Let me educate you as you are so lost.

Imagine you are boiling water, bubbles are being formed. The
bubbles represent the electrons,


-----------
i just wonder who is lost.......

why should i take your primitive metaphor as representing the
electron??

common pompous dude:
don't you parrot mathematician that considers himself a teacher in
physics
realize that *(listen carefully Poppy)*
a bubble is not a finite particle!!
got it idiot?? do you have some reading comprehension??

it is composed of millions of sub particles got it pompy??


air bubble i mean



and the boiling water the

field.

----------
from when on boiling water is a field??


The quantum vacuum has micro fluctuations


if i follow the rest of your post
you only *start to make sense
but once you say that 'quantum vacuum has micro fluctuations'

*you are not in a position to teach me physics * got it

that is your private imagination!1
so don't complain about My imagination .. (:-)


like boiling water.

The field is one of its embodiment. When one say an electron
has wave properties. It is because it is part of the field.


only now while you actually corrected yourself
you only *start* to make sense!!
yet being a particle does not depend on being in a field or not
will you admit your mistake??
only is you admit it i will take you as a responsible honest
and sincere scintist..!
---------

This means the particle is just a secondary effect of the field.
Without any field, there is no particle.


here you go again with your nonsense!!
no one except you claimers that !!
(are you in a position to write a book about crackpots ??)

I'll explain to you.
Recall the movie Matrix. Imagine the characters inside the computer
trying to figure out what are particles and what are electrons. No
matter
what probes they use, they can't see that they are just inside a
computer
program.
Similarly, a particle is part of a field... the field is part of the
quantum
vacuum... that quantum vacuum is part of spacetime.. and spacetime is
just output of some kind of macro program itself. Get it?? This means
if you pull the plug to whatever power spacetime, then everything from
quantum vacuum to fields to particles will just vanish. You get it? The
reason particles are connected to field to quantum vacuum to space/time
and ultimately to the algorithm is because that is the only way
particles
can be controlled right inside the program algorithm of reality. Do you
understand now?? In your case where you emphasize particles can
exist independently. This is a no-no because then there is longer any
connection to the Matrix program. The programmer (God) must have
accessed to everything in the program much our every pixel of the
screen
(particles) can be change giving you great arcade games.
I know someone who met a Beyonder (who can enter and exit our
spacetime via a backdoor) who can do a local manipulation and
powerdown of a portion of space/time. Then the object just cease to
exist
as in vanishing before your very eyes. So particles are connected
directly
to the fields to the quantum vacuum and to the program because this is
the only way they can be controlled by the program underneath our
reality.
Hope you understand everything by now.
If you still don't understand it... Well.... Don't worry. I'll
write a book about nuts like you who believe particles can exist
independently. In a real classical world.. maybe.. but not in some
kind of Matrix-like reality we live in (note I didn't say we live
inside a computer program but something much more complicated...)
Patty



In your case. you are trying to model the particle like its
some classical object like a baseball.

not at all
you are too jumpy and understood me quite the opposite way

i didnt want to 'spill' it too soon but my intention was exactly the
opposite.

i intended to lead the readers to exactly to the opposite direction
IE that say an electron is not a point particle More a baseball
nor even a finite particle but ........
composed of smaller sub particles !! got it Mr jumpy ???
---------

---------

In this way, you conclude

a point particle can't have wave properties... which is erroneous.


indeed a point particle cannot have any wave properties

and now i will add the amendment which i forgot to add::

THE PHOTON IS AN EXCEPTION TO MY ABOVE RULE!!

as usual the photon is in many cases an exceptions to rules.
----------


Get it now?


yes and you get it now ???

--------


Einstein, Dirac, Born, Feynman, etc. These folks are almost
living imbodiments of God. So parroting is like praying to
them and God.

---------
here is one of your big mistakes !!
not anything those great scientists claimed is right
just for another example;
Einsteins 'curved space-time' was a big flop that coasted
a huge wast of hum an energy!!!
could you believe it ???
his other innovations are admirable he is Worth to be
the scientist of the 20 th century!!
so the different between an intelligent person and a parrot
is to take those 'tiny ' differences.

btw are you going to write a book about
parrots in the history of science?? (:-)
you could do together with me a real fortune on such a book 1(:-)
-------------
----------


Also note our parroting talies with billions of dollars worth
of experiments and mathemetical model which is the language of
reality.

here is your exaggeration again
mathematics is not th leader of pioneering science
btw have you ever done any pioneering science
beside your * all particles that can exist only in fields ??*
--------


Where's your evidence or proof,

see just some hints of it in my home made site

genius? Stop wasting

time imagining things. Study some basic physics stuff.

i am doing all my life
now its your turn to do it but not as a parrot
use your mind (provided you have some!!
and dont forget:
in addition to all the above -
some personal integrity is needed
and the understanding that was found thousands years ago:

'Human um errata est' hope i spelled it right it is ancient Roman.

----------

ATB
Y.Porat

PS i intent to respect much more people who attend here
with their real identity- that is the first sign of integrity!!
---------------------



2 if an electron behaves *in a real field* -- like a wave
may be it is from some other reasons than a parrot can imagine??!!
-----


So electrons are more like oscillations of the Dirac

field.

-----------
electrons never hear ed about Dirac got it mathematics parrot??
electrons are natures creation that an idiot like you didn't got until
now

the Dirac field might be just a poor model of it !!


The field is primary, particles are just quantized part of it.


particles are quantized parts of a field Eh ???

and without a field there is no particles??

had you asked yourself just that simple question you would not
bring here your stupidity.


Don't you understand??

no i don't understand what you dint understand!!
before educating others educate yourself with reasonable thinking
not just stupid parroting.


Don't worry. I'd send you a free book I'm writing now called
"Cranks, crackpots and the Standard model" where you will be


you should read your book first

so ***** of my mack and deal with your idiotic Friends
not with me
because i don't what to deal with you or alike you anymore!!

let more open minded people than you and more cleaver get in

Y.Porat
--------------------

.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: A 'Point particle ( or a 'Finite particle') cannot behave like a wave !! 04 Aug 2005 04:08:34 AM
Ok Patty
we heared you
thank you i got it ......and i got you as well ......
now please let other people get in and present their views
ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------
.







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