| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
06 Nov 2006 01:12:04 PM |
| Object: |
analytic solution to Navier-Stokes |
hi
Can I be clued in what's going on with all the Google results on
"analytic solution to Navier-Stokes"?
I thought that problem has no analytical solution.
Thanks.
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| User: "Ken Muldrew" |
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| Title: Re: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes |
06 Nov 2006 02:44:22 PM |
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wrote:
hi
Can I be clued in what's going on with all the Google results on
"analytic solution to Navier-Stokes"?
I thought that problem has no analytical solution.
A mathematician submitted a paper claiming to prove the existance of a
smooth solution for all time for the 3D Navier-Stokes equation and
also posted a preprint to the ArXiv. Errors were found in the proof
and the paper was retracted but not before Nature (and others) jumped
on the hype bandwagon and publicized the event. The brief flurry of
activity must have alerted Google to put forward a plethora of results
to your query.
Ken Muldrew
kmuldrezw@ucalgazry.ca
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes |
08 Nov 2006 03:52:34 PM |
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Ken Muldrew wrote:
perltcl@yahoo.com wrote:
hi
Can I be clued in what's going on with all the Google results on
"analytic solution to Navier-Stokes"?
I thought that problem has no analytical solution.
A mathematician submitted a paper claiming to prove the existance of a
smooth solution for all time for the 3D Navier-Stokes equation and
also posted a preprint to the ArXiv.
Was that the woman whose area of research was D.E.'s, I think taught at
the University of Pennsylvania, and came up with this solution after
looking at the problem for about 3 months, submitting it for the Clay
prize?
Errors were found in the proof
and the paper was retracted but not before Nature (and others) jumped
on the hype bandwagon and publicized the event. The brief flurry of
activity must have alerted Google to put forward a plethora of results
to your query.
Oh. Thank God. After thinking for five years "I ought to try looking
at that", and then "damn! It's too late!", I can now procrastinate for
another five years, or until senility sets in, which ever comes first.
I think the solution to two Clay problems will probably come out at the
same time -- one a consequence of the other, in either order (the other
is the NP complete stuff).
Senility must be like a black hole horizon: you can never tell when
you've crossed it, everything looks the same to you locally.
.
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| User: "Ken Muldrew" |
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| Title: Re: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes |
09 Nov 2006 03:12:03 PM |
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"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
Ken Muldrew wrote:
perltcl@yahoo.com wrote:
hi
Can I be clued in what's going on with all the Google results on
"analytic solution to Navier-Stokes"?
I thought that problem has no analytical solution.
A mathematician submitted a paper claiming to prove the existance of a
smooth solution for all time for the 3D Navier-Stokes equation and
also posted a preprint to the ArXiv.
Was that the woman whose area of research was D.E.'s, I think taught at
the University of Pennsylvania, and came up with this solution after
looking at the problem for about 3 months, submitting it for the Clay
prize?
That's her, but she just submitted it to a journal and put a preprint
on the arXiv; she didn't submit anything for a Clay prize nor partake
in any other unseemly self-aggrandizement. The Clay prize hype came
from the Nature news article which was based on the appearance of the
preprint. She used to post here as Penny314 and I bet Google Groups
would show that you have corresponded with here at some point.
Errors were found in the proof
and the paper was retracted but not before Nature (and others) jumped
on the hype bandwagon and publicized the event. The brief flurry of
activity must have alerted Google to put forward a plethora of results
to your query.
Oh. Thank God. After thinking for five years "I ought to try looking
at that", and then "damn! It's too late!", I can now procrastinate for
another five years, or until senility sets in, which ever comes first.
I think the solution to two Clay problems will probably come out at the
same time -- one a consequence of the other, in either order (the other
is the NP complete stuff).
Just make sure you get someone clever to review it before posting to
the arXiv.
Senility must be like a black hole horizon: you can never tell when
you've crossed it, everything looks the same to you locally.
<Insert Einstein quote about the Universe not being malicious>
Ken Muldrew
kmuldrezw@ucalgazry.ca
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
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| User: "Rock Brentwood" |
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| Title: I'm Taking On All The Clay Problems (was: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes) |
08 Nov 2006 04:21:01 PM |
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Edward Green wrote:
Oh. Thank God. After thinking for five years "I ought to try looking
at that", and then "damn! It's too late!", I can now procrastinate for
another five years, or until senility sets in, which ever comes first.
I think the solution to two Clay problems will probably come out at the
same time -- one a consequence of the other, in either order (the other
is the NP complete stuff).
Senility must be like a black hole horizon: you can never tell when
you've crossed it, everything looks the same to you locally.
You better hurry ... on both counts. I've finally decided to actually
take on the problems. All of them.
If their intractibility is not intrinsic, I will find a resolution --
unless someone else gets there first, sooner. Poincare', I think, is
already down. Navier-Stokes is under discussion in sci.math.research.
At the outset I'm banking on being able to pull off a Bohm-Nelson in
reverse and convert it to a Schroedinger equation or something similar.
Another approach relates to what I call the "Lagrangian method".
Section 30 of Lecture Notes in Physics 107 covers the symplectic
approach to fluid mechanics. (The only problem is that I think the
problem formulated by the Clay Foundation may not always admit a
Lagrangian). The "Lagrangian method" is an approximation method I
developed a while back to directly resolving Lagrangian problems by
optimizing the action integral. Its chief characteristic is that it
avoids the explicit use of calculus and of solving partial differential
equations; instead, directly finding the update equations for a
simulated evolution. The task at hand, here, would then be to prove a
multi-variant version of Picard's theorem, showing that the "Lagrangian
method" approximations uniformly converge to a regular solution over
some interval containing the boundary of the problem in its interior.
(The Navier-Stokes problem, at least as formulated in the Millennium
Prize challenge, is posed as one of two boundary-value problems).
There are two approaches to Yang-Mills; though unfortunately they may
deviate too far from what Clay wants for a solution. One poses
Yang-Mills as a Cauchy problem over a Big Bang universe (or an
inflationary universe), using the compactness of the past light cone,
or a similar spacelike surface, to establish the desired gaps in the
"frequency space". Another formulates quantum field theory as a theory
in a thermal vacuum, and attempts to link the mass gap to the 3rd law
of thermodynamics. The latter approach has been in the back of my mind
for quite a while, but I've never gone too far with it, because it may
deviate too far from what Clay would count as a legitimate solution.
A third approach works directly off of the Connes algebraic
characterization of Yang-Mills theory. Connes found a nice global
algebraic formulation of the Yang-Mills equations that completely
abstracts out the "calculus" and differential equations. There may be a
way to exploit this to find a quantized theory that admits the
discretization of the frequency spectrum around 0.
In addition, there are a couple other approaches I've entertained, that
it would take me too far afield to mention here.
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| User: "FrediFizzx" |
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| Title: Re: I'm Taking On All The Clay Problems (was: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes) |
08 Nov 2006 08:06:18 PM |
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"Rock Brentwood" <markwh04@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163024461.859787.3920@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Edward Green wrote:
Oh. Thank God. After thinking for five years "I ought to try
looking
at that", and then "damn! It's too late!", I can now procrastinate
for
another five years, or until senility sets in, which ever comes
first.
I think the solution to two Clay problems will probably come out at
the
same time -- one a consequence of the other, in either order (the
other
is the NP complete stuff).
Senility must be like a black hole horizon: you can never tell when
you've crossed it, everything looks the same to you locally.
You better hurry ... on both counts. I've finally decided to actually
take on the problems. All of them.
Good for you.
If their intractibility is not intrinsic, I will find a resolution --
unless someone else gets there first, sooner. Poincare', I think, is
already down.
Yep, I think Perlman, et al, beat you on Poincare.
Navier-Stokes is under discussion in sci.math.research.
At the outset I'm banking on being able to pull off a Bohm-Nelson in
reverse and convert it to a Schroedinger equation or something
similar.
Another approach relates to what I call the "Lagrangian method".
Section 30 of Lecture Notes in Physics 107 covers the symplectic
approach to fluid mechanics. (The only problem is that I think the
problem formulated by the Clay Foundation may not always admit a
Lagrangian). The "Lagrangian method" is an approximation method I
developed a while back to directly resolving Lagrangian problems by
optimizing the action integral. Its chief characteristic is that it
avoids the explicit use of calculus and of solving partial
differential
equations; instead, directly finding the update equations for a
simulated evolution. The task at hand, here, would then be to prove a
multi-variant version of Picard's theorem, showing that the
"Lagrangian
method" approximations uniformly converge to a regular solution over
some interval containing the boundary of the problem in its interior.
(The Navier-Stokes problem, at least as formulated in the Millennium
Prize challenge, is posed as one of two boundary-value problems).
There are two approaches to Yang-Mills; though unfortunately they may
deviate too far from what Clay wants for a solution. One poses
Yang-Mills as a Cauchy problem over a Big Bang universe (or an
inflationary universe), using the compactness of the past light cone,
or a similar spacelike surface, to establish the desired gaps in the
"frequency space". Another formulates quantum field theory as a theory
in a thermal vacuum, and attempts to link the mass gap to the 3rd law
of thermodynamics. The latter approach has been in the back of my mind
for quite a while, but I've never gone too far with it, because it may
deviate too far from what Clay would count as a legitimate solution.
A third approach works directly off of the Connes algebraic
characterization of Yang-Mills theory. Connes found a nice global
algebraic formulation of the Yang-Mills equations that completely
abstracts out the "calculus" and differential equations. There may be
a
way to exploit this to find a quantized theory that admits the
discretization of the frequency spectrum around 0.
In addition, there are a couple other approaches I've entertained,
that
it would take me too far afield to mention here.
IMHO, there is only one true way for Yang-Mills. The new ether, the
organization of the quantum "vacuum", but Clay will probably never
accept it. You are actually on a pretty good track for this from what I
gather from your previous posts. It is simply a modified Dirac-like Sea
scenario. There are no negative energy states. Only possible positive
ones allowed by the interactional geometry of the quantum "vacuum's"
quantum objects. So it is bounded from below. And the hexagonal-like
lattice doesn't go to zero due to the properties of the fundamental
entities. So it is also bounded from above. Ya have to think of energy
states as being more like left and right handed instead of positive and
negative. There may even be a 3-way or more chirality involved. It is
the interactional geometry of the quantum objects in the "vacuum" that
create the mass gap. However, we don't know what the exact properties
are of the "vacuum" quantum objects. Yet. I suspect the solution is a
fractal one. But this scenario means we are riding on a tremendous sea
of positive energy. No problem because we can only detect changes in
energy anywise.
FrediFizzx
Quantum Vacuum Charge papers;
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/physics/0601110
http://www.vacuum-physics.com
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| User: "Rock Brentwood" |
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| Title: Re: I'm Taking On All The Clay Problems (was: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes) |
09 Nov 2006 01:14:02 PM |
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FrediFizzx wrote:
"Rock Brentwood" <markwh04@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1163024461.859787.3920@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You better hurry ... on both counts. I've finally decided to actually
take on the problems. All of them.
Good for you.
If their intractibility is not intrinsic, I will find a resolution --
unless someone else gets there first, sooner. Poincare', I think, is
already down.
Yep, I think Perlman, et al, beat you on Poincare.
I think you're right. But I thought it was the Russian dude back in
June or so who came up with the final answer. Wasn't he supposed to be
the one who refused the field medal and then said he might consider the
Clay prize?
IMHO, there is only one true way for Yang-Mills.
There's a LOT of possible ways to handle Yang-Mills. I only cited 3 of
them. Connes algebra, if I recall simply used the covariant derivative
as a generator and then posed all the relations it satisfied (namely
the Bianchi identities). From you, get you an abstract algebra of a
rather complicated sort whose definition totally does away with the
underlying continuum.
There's another approach to Yang-Mills, of a very interesting sort,
which underlies the whole LQG programme. The first few chapters of
"Loops, knots, gauge theory and quantum gravity" discusses what can
only be described as a whole new algebraic foundation to all things
related to gauge theory, itself. The "loop groups" and its associated
calculus, described in chapter 1, provide a kind of "universal"
formalism which maps onto every Yang-Mills or gauge theory.
Stage #1, as it were, and as I outlined in the sci.math article under
the same subject header, is to completely bone up on all the background
information relating to each of these problem fields. There are two
problems already central to my research focus (and which have long been
so): P=NP and Yang-Mills; three are peripheral (Navier-Stokes, Riemann
Hypothesis, Poincare'), the others alien to me.
Time permitting, I'll probably put up on the Web a thorough briefing on
all the problem areas that combines what's on arXiv, Wolfram, the
Wikipedia and other sources, but goes well beyond them all. It doesn't
actually take very long to do a Net-raid and pull down everything
that's needed. The rest is in the library on campus near here and/or in
the research journals.
The Poincare' problem's apparent resolution is interesting in itself.
I've been trying to figure out for quite a while what the meaning and
significance of the Ricci tensor actually is. It shows up in the
Raychaudhuri equation too. But there hasn't been a whole lot written
directly about it, which is surprising, given that it figures centrally
in General Relativity. A good geometric interpretation of the tensor,
abstracted away from the local details of continuua, derivatives,
coordinate indices, etc., could go a long way toward resolving what
General Relativity actually looks like in the context of quantum theory.
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| User: "Andy Resnick" |
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| Title: Re: analytic solution to Navier-Stokes |
06 Nov 2006 02:27:04 PM |
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wrote:
hi
Can I be clued in what's going on with all the Google results on
"analytic solution to Navier-Stokes"?
I thought that problem has no analytical solution.
There are lots of closed-form solutions to the Navier-Stokes equations.
Channel flow, tube flow, Stokes first and second problems, flow around
a sphere, flow around a cylinder, Rayleigh-Taylor instabilities, fluid
jets, Couette flow...
There are no analytic solutions for turbulent flow, for many types of
complex flow geometries (around airfoils, for example), many types of
flow involving free surfaces, stuff like that.
--
Andrew Resnick, Ph.D.
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Case Western Reserve University
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