| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Eric Prebys" |
| Date: |
13 Aug 2003 10:29:01 AM |
| Object: |
Any good books on junk science? |
I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
For my part, I'll pass on a great web site I stumbled on about the history
of perpetual motion machines dating back to the 13th century:
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
Thanks,
Eric
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| User: "Edgar A Pearlstein" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 12:55:59 PM |
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Perhaps the best of all, even though it's now very old, is Fads and
Fallacies in the Name of Science, by Martin Gardner. I think it's still
in print, paperback from Dover.
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| User: "Harry Conover" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 04:28:06 PM |
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"Eric Prebys" <ericprebys@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<bhdl8n$h3k$1@info4.fnal.gov>...
I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
Drop in on the newsgroup sci.physics.fusion. There you'll find a few
people still defending the potential and reality of 'cold fusion.'
(It's a bit like a visit to the 'flat earth society'!)
Let's not assume that members of the scientific establishment are
incapable of publishing pulp...
Consider the best sellers written by Stephen Hawking who at times
comes close to Tom Bearden for straining scientific credibility in his
pop level publications. Similarly, the works of Gerard K. O'Neill.
Harry C.
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| User: "Llertnac Cire" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
14 Aug 2003 05:04:27 PM |
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"Harry Conover" <hhc314@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ce4e226.0308131328.5d2be078@posting.google.com...
Consider the best sellers written by Stephen Hawking who at times
comes close to Tom Bearden for straining scientific credibility in his
pop level publications. Similarly, the works of Gerard K. O'Neill.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about Steve. Anyway,
here's a good one:
http://www.quackwatch.org/
It's not about physics, per se, but equally entertaining.
-Eric de-lurking-lurking
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 02:32:00 PM |
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"Gordon D. Pusch" <gdpusch@NO.xnet.SPAM.com> wrote in message
news:gik79hmlze.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
Steven Milloy has a weekly "Junk Science" column at
<http://www.foxnews.com/junkscience/>,
but it is mostly directed toward lampooning "Politically Motivated
Science,"
AKA "Science In The Public Interest," wherein the policy wonks of this,
that,
or the other Activist Organization have already decided what the
Politically
Correct conclusion of a study or experiment MUST be, and accumulate
evidence
that allegedly supports said conclusion --- often at taxpayer expense...
It's much more American to get Fox News's conclusion.
Or is that "more Australian"?
BTW, did you see how well Fox squelched Al Frankens' new book? After Fox
filed suit, the book went to #1 on Amazon's bestseller list, and it doesn't
come out for another month. Rupert, I'm sure Al thanks you.
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| User: "Eric Prebys" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 05:34:05 PM |
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Richard Henry wrote:
"Gordon D. Pusch" <gdpusch@NO.xnet.SPAM.com> wrote in message
news:gik79hmlze.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
Steven Milloy has a weekly "Junk Science" column at
<http://www.foxnews.com/junkscience/>,
but it is mostly directed toward lampooning "Politically Motivated
Science,"
AKA "Science In The Public Interest," wherein the policy wonks of this,
that,
or the other Activist Organization have already decided what the
Politically
Correct conclusion of a study or experiment MUST be, and accumulate
evidence
that allegedly supports said conclusion --- often at taxpayer expense...
It's much more American to get Fox News's conclusion.
Or is that "more Australian"?
Are you implying you don't trust the network that brought us
"The Moan Hoax"?
BTW, did you see how well Fox squelched Al Frankens' new book? After Fox
filed suit, the book went to #1 on Amazon's bestseller list, and it doesn't
come out for another month. Rupert, I'm sure Al thanks you.
I'm sure that Spike TV ultimately benefitted from Spike Lee's
ridiculous lawsuit as well.
-Eric
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| User: "Gordon D. Pusch" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 04:32:56 PM |
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Eric Prebys <prebys@fnal.gov> writes:
Gordon D. Pusch wrote:
Steven Milloy has a weekly "Junk Science" column at
<http://www.foxnews.com/junkscience/>,
but it is mostly directed toward lampooning "Politically Motivated
Science,"
AKA "Science In The Public Interest," wherein the policy wonks of this, that,
or the other Activist Organization have already decided what the Politically
Correct conclusion of a study or experiment MUST be, and accumulate
evidence that allegedly supports said conclusion --- often at taxpayer
expense...
There's some entertaining stuff there, but of course by carefully
choosing which "junk science" he exposes, he's pushing a pretty
strong agenda of his own. It's a fairly recent column, but reading
through the archives, I can't help but wonder what his reaction would
have been to the first studies showing that, say, cigarettes cause
cancer, or the dangers of beryllium dust, for example.
Frankly, I have similar concerns; there are times when Milloy seems
=TOO= skeptical. OTOH, as Millory himself notes, some of his extreme
skepticism has been brought on by the number of times later studies
(usually with bad statistics) have "reversed" the results of earlier
studies (with even worse statistics).
Milloy epitomizes the large and growing sector of "John Q. Public"
who does =NOT= understand how the scientific method works, or that
=ALL= scientific results are TENTATIVE and potentially subject to
later refutation or revision by better evidence, and who has heard
SO many contradictory reports from so many alleged "experts," that
he now refuses to believe =ANYTHING= that =ANY= 'scientific expert"
tells him, no matter =HOW= solid the evidence for the new claim is.
Milloy has a quite valid point that "scientists" (including the bad ones)
have become the "new priests and shamans" of our culture, and that the state
is now relying on "scientific results" that are _SOMETIMES_ almost as bogus
as the entrail reading performed by the traditional priests and shamans.
And unfortunately for the legitimate, careful, cautious scientists
who practice the proper self-skeptical, self-correcting scientific method,
the politically motivated pseudo-scientists have caused people like Milloy
to tar =ALL= scientists with the same brush... :-(
-- Gordon D. Pusch
perl -e '$_ = "gdpusch\@NO.xnet.SPAM.com\n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
14 Aug 2003 02:14:23 AM |
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In article <gi3cg5meev.fsf@pusch.xnet.com>, (Gordon D. Pusch) writes:
Eric Prebys <prebys@fnal.gov> writes:
Gordon D. Pusch wrote:
Steven Milloy has a weekly "Junk Science" column at
<http://www.foxnews.com/junkscience/>,
but it is mostly directed toward lampooning "Politically Motivated
Science,"
AKA "Science In The Public Interest," wherein the policy wonks of this, that,
or the other Activist Organization have already decided what the Politically
Correct conclusion of a study or experiment MUST be, and accumulate
evidence that allegedly supports said conclusion --- often at taxpayer
expense...
There's some entertaining stuff there, but of course by carefully
choosing which "junk science" he exposes, he's pushing a pretty
strong agenda of his own. It's a fairly recent column, but reading
through the archives, I can't help but wonder what his reaction would
have been to the first studies showing that, say, cigarettes cause
cancer, or the dangers of beryllium dust, for example.
Frankly, I have similar concerns; there are times when Milloy seems
=TOO= skeptical. OTOH, as Millory himself notes, some of his extreme
skepticism has been brought on by the number of times later studies
(usually with bad statistics) have "reversed" the results of earlier
studies (with even worse statistics).
Milloy epitomizes the large and growing sector of "John Q. Public"
who does =NOT= understand how the scientific method works, or that
=ALL= scientific results are TENTATIVE and potentially subject to
later refutation or revision by better evidence, and who has heard
SO many contradictory reports from so many alleged "experts," that
he now refuses to believe =ANYTHING= that =ANY= 'scientific expert"
tells him, no matter =HOW= solid the evidence for the new claim is.
Milloy has a quite valid point that "scientists" (including the bad ones)
have become the "new priests and shamans" of our culture, and that the state
is now relying on "scientific results" that are _SOMETIMES_ almost as bogus
as the entrail reading performed by the traditional priests and shamans.
And unfortunately for the legitimate, careful, cautious scientists
who practice the proper self-skeptical, self-correcting scientific method,
the politically motivated pseudo-scientists have caused people like Milloy
to tar =ALL= scientists with the same brush... :-(
As you say, it is unfortunate. But, you cannot blame the public for
this sad state of affairs, *only* the scientists. When they, for
reasons of expediency, political beliefs, wish to please academic
constituencies or funding agencies, etc. release sloppy and/or bias
results, they're breaking a public trust (and lets not forget that by
and large it is the public that pays for this research). If enough of
them do it, you can't expect the public to engage in fine
distinctions, on individual basis.
Any profession finds, sooner or later, that it has but two choices:
police its members or be subject to policing by laymen. And it should
be obvious which choice is to be preferred.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Laurel Amberdine" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
14 Aug 2003 11:24:24 AM |
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On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:14:23 GMT, <> wrote:
In article <gi3cg5meev.fsf@pusch.xnet.com>, (Gordon D. Pusch) writes:
Eric Prebys <prebys@fnal.gov> writes:
(I wanted to respond to the original post but my newsserver got messed up
and now I can't get to that message. I think I remember what Eric was
asking for...)
There's a book called _Bad Astronomy_ about false claims made in
astronomy, from the moon hoax to planet X. I believe the author has a
website covering the same material. I heard him speak on Art Bell's show
about a year ago and it was interesting. The callers were very upset. :)
I'm sure I have information about other such books but I am too
disogranized to find anything right now. If I find anything else good
I'll let you know.
-Laurel
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| User: "CC" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
11 Sep 2003 04:12:57 PM |
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In article <gi3cg5meev.fsf@pusch.xnet.com>, Gordon D. Pusch
<gdpusch@NO.xnet.SPAM.com> wrote:
Milloy has a quite valid point that "scientists" (including the bad ones)
have become the "new priests and shamans" of our culture, and that the state
is now relying on "scientific results" that are _SOMETIMES_ almost as bogus
as the entrail reading performed by the traditional priests and shamans.
And unfortunately for the legitimate, careful, cautious scientists
who practice the proper self-skeptical, self-correcting scientific method,
the politically motivated pseudo-scientists have caused people like Milloy
to tar =ALL= scientists with the same brush... :-(
As if the shoe didn't fit, eh?
CC
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| User: "George Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 02:19:56 PM |
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Eric Prebys wrote:
I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
For my part, I'll pass on a great web site I stumbled on about the history
of perpetual motion machines dating back to the 13th century:
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
I don't know if it's what you have in mind, but I really like the book
"The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl
Sagan.
Regards,
George
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 12:30:18 PM |
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In article <3F3A8F5C.856C6B9D@yahoo.com>, George Jones <george_llew_jones@yahoo.com> writes:
Eric Prebys wrote:
I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
For my part, I'll pass on a great web site I stumbled on about the history
of perpetual motion machines dating back to the 13th century:
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
I don't know if it's what you have in mind, but I really like the book
"The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl
Sagan.
Also, "Voodoo Science", by Robert Park.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Bruce Scott TOK" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
14 Aug 2003 04:38:16 AM |
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Eric Prebys wrote:
|> Gordon D. Pusch wrote:
|>
|> > Steven Milloy has a weekly "Junk Science" column at
|> >
|> > <http://www.foxnews.com/junkscience/>,
|> >
|> > but it is mostly directed toward lampooning "Politically Motivated Science,"
|> > AKA "Science In The Public Interest," wherein the policy wonks of this, that,
|> > or the other Activist Organization have already decided what the Politically
|> > Correct conclusion of a study or experiment MUST be, and accumulate evidence
|> > that allegedly supports said conclusion --- often at taxpayer expense...
|> >
|> >
|>
|> There's some entertaining stuff there, but of course by carefully
|> choosing which "junk science" he exposes, he's pushing a pretty
|> strong agenda of his own. It's a fairly recent column, but reading
|> through the archives, I can't help but wonder what his reaction would
|> have been to the first studies showing that, say, cigarettes cause
|> cancer, or the dangers of beryllium dust, for example.
You cannot trust Fox or CNN to really go after the sort of bad science
that comes from corporations... or the current administration.
Concerning this, see the recent What's New post by Bob Park...
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
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| User: "Bruce Scott TOK" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
14 Aug 2003 10:36:17 AM |
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Richard Henry asked:
|> "Bruce Scott TOK" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in
|> message news:200308140938.h7E9cG9h025166@ipp.mpg.de...
|>
|> > You cannot trust Fox or CNN to really go after the sort of bad science
|> > that comes from corporations... or the current administration.
|> >
|> > Concerning this, see the recent What's New post by Bob Park...
|>
|> In which newsgroup?
Ah, sorry, forgot to look at Newsgroups:
It was sci.physics. You can also look at the What's New website:
http://www.aps.org/WN/
It is the one from 8 Aug (still on front page)
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
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| User: "Garrison Hilliard" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
29 Aug 2003 03:20:31 PM |
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Bruce Scott TOK <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<200308141536.h7EFaHaW026720@ipp.mpg.de>...
|> > Concerning this, see the recent What's New post by Bob Park...
|>
|> In which newsgroup?
bit.listserv.skeptic
Ah, sorry, forgot to look at Newsgroups:
It was sci.physics. You can also look at the What's New website:
http://www.aps.org/WN/
It is the one from 8 Aug (still on front page)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
14 Aug 2003 07:53:32 AM |
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[spit]
<snip>
The subject title had my hopes up; I thought it was about
archaeology and people figuring out the use of the doodads.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 10:43:54 AM |
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In article <bhdl8n$h3k$1@info4.fnal.gov>,
Eric Prebys <ericprebys@comcast.net> wrote:
I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
For my part, I'll pass on a great web site I stumbled on about the history
of perpetual motion machines dating back to the 13th century:
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
Thanks,
Eric
If you're intrested, I came across
Kholmetskii, "Covariant Ether Theories and Special Relativity", Physica
Scripta 67, 381-387, 2003.
And it references various aether theories. This one probably can't be
classed as kook science, but kooks almost always seem to have something
to say about an aether, so maybe you'd be interested.
--
"A good plan executed right now is far better than a perfect plan
executed next week."
-Gen. George S. Patton
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| User: "CC" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
11 Sep 2003 04:09:45 PM |
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In article <bhdl8n$h3k$1@info4.fnal.gov>, Eric Prebys
<ericprebys@comcast.net> wrote:
I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
For my part, I'll pass on a great web site I stumbled on about the history
of perpetual motion machines dating back to the 13th century:
http://www.phact.org/e/dennis4.html
Thanks,
Eric
Open any college text about nuclear fusion and all you have is junk
science. Read Wheeler and Thorne's "Gravitation". That is junk
science in a tuxedo which has made it into all the best schools. Read
any text touting GR and you've got junk science. Academia is replete
with 'junk science'.
CC
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| User: "Richard Schultz" |
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| Title: Re: Any good books on junk science? |
13 Aug 2003 12:31:22 PM |
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In sci.physics.particle Eric Prebys <ericprebys@comcast.net> wrote:
: I must say, I've had some fun over the past week or so "educating" myself
: about the kook science "establishment" (Tom Bearden, Andrija Puharich,
: Glen Rein, Moray King, etc...) and their through-the-looking-glass world
: of perpetual motion machines, quaternions, scalar waves, non-Hertzian E&M
: and the like. It leads me to ask if anyone knows of any books about this -
: something like Randi's "Flim Flam" or Donna Kossy's "Kooks", but focused on
: junk science. Even some good web sites would be nice. Any suggestions?
The classic work in the field, published in the 1950's and AFAIK still in
print, is _Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science_ by Martin Gardner.
Gardner also published several collections of essays about science and
pseudo-science such as _Science: Good, Bad, and Bogus_, and several
collections of essays he wrote for "The Skeptical Inquirer" magazine.
Speaking of "The Skeptical Inquirer," there are also several books on
the subject written and/or edited by Kendrick Frazier, who is (or was)
the editor of "The Skeptical Inquirer."
Carl Sagan's book _Broca's Brain_ has a few chapters on what you call
"kook science."
This isn't exactly "kook science" in the sense that you mean, but it's
IMO a very worthwhile read: _The Mismeasure of Man_ by Stephen Jay Gould.
I'm in the minority in that I was never a particular fan of his science
writing, but in this one case, I feel that he really outdid himself.
-----
Richard Schultz
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and
if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."
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