Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "glbrad01"
Date: 15 Mar 2005 05:57:03 AM
Object: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko
Astronomers have found newborn, middle-aged, and dead or dying galaxies more
than 12 billion light years from Earth. They now say (from the article at
space.com) that there was as much variety back then as we witness around us
today. But they still put all that space and time variation as altogether
being in the neighborhood of from 2 billion years--to less than 1 billion
years--after a so-called Big Bang beginning to everything. They need to be
put in padded cells immediately. The next thing we are going to hear from
them is that they have discovered more of the same 13.5 billion to 14
billion light years from Earth and that it sprang whole, including springing
aged (or better yet, 'antiqued'), in about six days from the instant of the
Big Bang beginning (the seventh day being a day of rest).
Gen
.

User: "Greysky"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 15 Mar 2005 08:27:09 AM
"glbrad01" <glbrad01@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:j4AZd.70077$Ze3.53611@attbi_s51...

Astronomers have found newborn, middle-aged, and dead or dying galaxies
more than 12 billion light years from Earth. They now say (from the
article at space.com) that there was as much variety back then as we
witness around us today. But they still put all that space and time
variation as altogether being in the neighborhood of from 2 billion
years--to less than 1 billion years--after a so-called Big Bang beginning
to everything. They need to be put in padded cells immediately. The next
thing we are going to hear from them is that they have discovered more of
the same 13.5 billion to 14 billion light years from Earth and that it
sprang whole, including springing aged (or better yet, 'antiqued'), in
about six days from the instant of the Big Bang beginning (the seventh day
being a day of rest).


The big bang false cosmology dies hard. It will only be truly put down after
the current generation of cosmologists die. As quantum physics sprang like a
holy terror from a few little irregularities occurring in classical physics,
so to will the new astronomy spring from all the irregularities we are
already seeing in the universe, from the quasar distribution, to the true
nature of the size of the universe, the true nature of antimatter and where
it is, to the picture of the universe the cosmic background radiation paints
for us... and it cant happen soon enough.
Greysky
www.allocations.cc
Learn how to build a FTL radio.
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 15 Mar 2005 08:40:49 AM
Greysky wrote:


The big bang false cosmology dies hard. It will only be truly put down after
the current generation of cosmologists die. As quantum physics sprang like a
holy terror from a few little irregularities occurring in classical physics,
so to will the new astronomy spring from all the irregularities we are
already seeing in the universe, from the quasar distribution, to the true
nature of the size of the universe, the true nature of antimatter and where
it is, to the picture of the universe the cosmic background radiation paints
for us... and it cant happen soon enough.

From some of the new young (and upcoming) investigators:
WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html
WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
.


User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 16 Mar 2005 06:15:05 AM
glbrad01 wrote:

Astronomers have found newborn, middle-aged, and dead or dying galaxies more
than 12 billion light years from Earth. They now say (from the article at
space.com) that there was as much variety back then as we witness around us
today. But they still put all that space and time variation as altogether
being in the neighborhood of from 2 billion years--to less than 1 billion
years--after a so-called Big Bang beginning to everything.

"less than 1 billion years" is news to me. Where did you get that from?

They need to be put in padded cells immediately.

Why? A few irregularities are not fatal in any way.

The next thing we are going to hear from
them is that they have discovered more of the same 13.5 billion to 14
billion light years from Earth and that it sprang whole, including springing
aged (or better yet, 'antiqued'), in about six days from the instant of the
Big Bang beginning (the seventh day being a day of rest).

Nice straw man. Why don't we wait until we have actual observations
off the stuff existing at such an early time (e.g. in a few years
from the James Webb telescope) and then discuss this further?
Bye,
Bjoern
.
User: "Mitchell Jones"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 17 Mar 2005 06:27:21 PM
In article <d1980a$pcm$2@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
Bjoern Feuerbacher <feuerbac@thphys.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:

glbrad01 wrote:

Astronomers have found newborn, middle-aged, and dead or dying galaxies
more
than 12 billion light years from Earth. They now say (from the article at
space.com) that there was as much variety back then as we witness around us
today. But they still put all that space and time variation as altogether
being in the neighborhood of from 2 billion years--to less than 1 billion
years--after a so-called Big Bang beginning to everything.


"less than 1 billion years" is news to me. Where did you get that from?

***{See
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/galaxies_early_universe.html,
for one possible source.
The big bang has been busted again, Bjoern. But, hey, it never mattered
in the past, so why should it matter now? :-)
--Mitchell Jones}***

They need to be put in padded cells immediately.

***{Yup, but they won't be. They run the asylum, you see. So they'll put
you in, instead! (Is this a great country, or what? :-) --MJ}***

Why? A few irregularities are not fatal in any way.

***{That's right! Not fatal in any way! All the celestial bodies are
perfect spheres, after all! --MJ}***

The next thing we are going to hear from
them is that they have discovered more of the same 13.5 billion to 14
billion light years from Earth and that it sprang whole, including
springing
aged (or better yet, 'antiqued'), in about six days from the instant of the
Big Bang beginning (the seventh day being a day of rest).


Nice straw man. Why don't we wait until we have actual observations
off the stuff existing at such an early time (e.g. in a few years
from the James Webb telescope) and then discuss this further?

***{What would be the point? Establishment cosmologists will just lay
some soothing words on these results and chuck them into the same bag
with cosmic acceleration, anomalous galactic rotation, superluminal
jets, and all the other stuff that gives reasonable people fits. The
"experts" don't care, so the public doesn't care. Result: the big bang
will die when its proponents are in their graves, and thus are forced to
relinquish their positions of influence to younger men who are willing
to follow the evidence. And that's all there is to that story. --MJ}***

Bye,
Bjoern

.
User: "Mitchell Jones"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 18 Mar 2005 06:07:21 PM
***{I noticed that the article referenced in my previous post is
described as a "press release," so I guess there will be no problem in
posting it here. See below. [Source:
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/galaxies_early_universe.html.]
--MJ}***

Galaxies in the Early Universe Came in Every Flavour

Summary - (Mar 9, 2005) It appears that galaxies in the early Universe didn't
evolve at similar speeds or in the same ways. Almost right from the
beginning, the Universe was filled with galaxies large and small, dusty and
clear, active with star formation and relatively sedate. Researchers from the
US used Infrared Array Camera (IRAC) aboard NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope to
study galaxies 10-12 billion light-years away. Instead of finding a similar
set of galaxies, they turned up tremendous varieties, as much as we see in
the night sky today.

Full Story - What did the universe look like when it was only 2 to 3 billion
years old? Astronomers used to think it was a pretty simple place containing
relatively small, young star-forming galaxies. Researchers now are realizing
that the truth is not that simple. Even the early universe was a wildly
complex place. Studying the universe at this early stage is important in
understanding how the galaxies near us were assembled over time.

Jiasheng Huang (Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics) said, "It looks
like vegetable soup! We're detecting galaxies we never expected to find,
having a wide range of properties we never expected to see."

"It's becoming more and more clear that the young universe was a big zoo
with animals of all sorts," said Ivo Labbé (Observatories of the Carnegie
Institution of Washington), lead author on the study announcing this result.

Using the Infrared Array Camera (IRAC) aboard NASA's Spitzer Space
Telescope, the astronomers searched for distant, red galaxies in the Hubble
Deep Field South-a region of the southern sky previously observed by the
Hubble Space Telescope.

Their search was successful. The IRAC images displayed about a dozen very
red galaxies lurking at distances of 10 to 12 billion light-years. Those
galaxies existed when the universe was only about 1/5 of its present age of
14 billion years. Analysis showed that the galaxies exhibit a large range of
properties.

"Overall, we're seeing young galaxies with lots of dust, young galaxies with
no dust, old galaxies with lots of dust, and old galaxies with no dust.
There's as much variety in the early universe as we see around us today,"
said Labbé.

The team was particularly surprised to find a curious breed of galaxy never
seen before at such an early stage in the universe--old, red galaxies that
had stopped forming new stars altogether. Those galaxies had rapidly formed
large numbers of stars much earlier in the universe's history, raising the
question of what caused them to "die" so soon.

The unpredicted existence of such "red and dead" galaxies so early in time
challenges theorists who model galaxy formation.

"We're trying to understand how galaxies like the Milky Way assembled and
how they got to look the way they appear today," said Giovanni Fazio (CfA),
a co-author on the study. "Spitzer offers capabilities that Hubble and other
instruments don't, giving us a unique way to study very distant galaxies
that eventually became the galaxies we see around us now."

The study will be published in an upcoming issue of The Astrophysical
Journal Letters.

This press release is being issued in conjunction with the Observatories of
the Carnegie Institution of Washington.

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the Spitzer
Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington.
Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center, Pasadena,
Calif. JPL is a division of California Institute for Technology, Pasadena.

Headquartered in Cambridge, Mass., the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics (CfA) is a joint collaboration between the Smithsonian
Astrophysical Observatory and the Harvard College Observatory. CfA
scientists, organized into six research divisions, study the origin,
evolution and ultimate fate of the universe.

***{In my view it is simply not reasonable for cosmologists to continue
their established ritual of spinning up equations that "predict" such
results after the fact. The above results, to a reasonable person, stand
against the big bang, and in support of a steady state universe.
I'm not referring to the Gold-Hoyle steady state theory with its
continuous creation of matter out of nothing, of course. That would
violate the principle of continuity, and is therefore out of bounds.
What is needed, instead, is a theory that postulates the appearance of
hydrogen atoms in the voids the outrushing galaxies leave behind, which
is due to some process that makes use of photonic and/or gravitational
energy as the building material, rather than relying on *nothing* as the
building material.
By such a hypothesis, as the present galaxies rush apart the spaces they
leave behind fill up with hydrogen, plus any supernova ejecta left over
from the old galaxies, plus material cast off by galactic jets, etc.
Then that material condenses under the action of gravitation to form
dust clouds, when then contract further to form dim galaxies, and, still
later, as stars within the dim galaxies begin to light up, normal
galaxies of the usual sort appear. Note, however, that as soon as the
new galaxies light up, they begin ejecting photons into the surrounding
intergalactic spaces. And, a bit later, black holes begin forming within
them and, if my hypothesis is correct, they throw off their matter in
the form of axial, superluminal jets of gravity particles. Eventually,
because of such losses, the new galaxies will themselves disappear.
Bottom line: the universe always seems to be expanding, as visible
galaxies rush away from one another, but its overall appearance never
changes much, because new galaxies are always taking the places of the
older galaxies as they rush away.
--Mitchell Jones}***
.
User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 21 Mar 2005 05:19:41 AM
Mitchell Jones wrote:

***{I noticed that the article referenced in my previous post is
described as a "press release," so I guess there will be no problem in
posting it here. See below. [Source:
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/galaxies_early_universe.html.]
--MJ}***


Galaxies in the Early Universe Came in Every Flavour

Summary - (Mar 9, 2005) It appears that galaxies in the early Universe didn't
evolve at similar speeds or in the same ways. Almost right from the
beginning, the Universe was filled with galaxies large and small, dusty and
clear, active with star formation and relatively sedate. Researchers from the
US used Infrared Array Camera (IRAC) aboard NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope to
study galaxies 10-12 billion light-years away. Instead of finding a similar
set of galaxies, they turned up tremendous varieties, as much as we see in
the night sky today.

Full Story - What did the universe look like when it was only 2 to 3 billion
years old? Astronomers used to think it was a pretty simple place containing
relatively small, young star-forming galaxies. Researchers now are realizing
that the truth is not that simple. Even the early universe was a wildly
complex place. Studying the universe at this early stage is important in
understanding how the galaxies near us were assembled over time.

Jiasheng Huang (Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics) said, "It looks
like vegetable soup! We're detecting galaxies we never expected to find,
having a wide range of properties we never expected to see."

"It's becoming more and more clear that the young universe was a big zoo
with animals of all sorts," said Ivo Labbé (Observatories of the Carnegie
Institution of Washington), lead author on the study announcing this result.

Using the Infrared Array Camera (IRAC) aboard NASA's Spitzer Space
Telescope, the astronomers searched for distant, red galaxies in the Hubble
Deep Field South-a region of the southern sky previously observed by the
Hubble Space Telescope.

Their search was successful. The IRAC images displayed about a dozen very
red galaxies lurking at distances of 10 to 12 billion light-years. Those
galaxies existed when the universe was only about 1/5 of its present age of
14 billion years. Analysis showed that the galaxies exhibit a large range of
properties.

"Overall, we're seeing young galaxies with lots of dust, young galaxies with
no dust, old galaxies with lots of dust, and old galaxies with no dust.
There's as much variety in the early universe as we see around us today,"
said Labbé.

The team was particularly surprised to find a curious breed of galaxy never
seen before at such an early stage in the universe--old, red galaxies that
had stopped forming new stars altogether. Those galaxies had rapidly formed
large numbers of stars much earlier in the universe's history, raising the
question of what caused them to "die" so soon.

The unpredicted existence of such "red and dead" galaxies so early in time
challenges theorists who model galaxy formation.

"We're trying to understand how galaxies like the Milky Way assembled and
how they got to look the way they appear today," said Giovanni Fazio (CfA),
a co-author on the study. "Spitzer offers capabilities that Hubble and other
instruments don't, giving us a unique way to study very distant galaxies
that eventually became the galaxies we see around us now."

The study will be published in an upcoming issue of The Astrophysical
Journal Letters.

This press release is being issued in conjunction with the Observatories of
the Carnegie Institution of Washington.

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the Spitzer
Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington.
Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center, Pasadena,
Calif. JPL is a division of California Institute for Technology, Pasadena.

Headquartered in Cambridge, Mass., the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics (CfA) is a joint collaboration between the Smithsonian
Astrophysical Observatory and the Harvard College Observatory. CfA
scientists, organized into six research divisions, study the origin,
evolution and ultimate fate of the universe.



***{In my view it is simply not reasonable for cosmologists to continue
their established ritual of spinning up equations that "predict" such
results after the fact. The above results, to a reasonable person, stand
against the big bang, and in support of a steady state universe.

No. As the article itself says, these results merely
"challenge[s] theorists who model galaxy formation"

I'm not referring to the Gold-Hoyle steady state theory with its
continuous creation of matter out of nothing, of course. That would
violate the principle of continuity,

What does that principle say?
Do you mean "conservation of energy", or what?

and is therefore out of bounds.
What is needed, instead, is a theory that postulates the appearance of
hydrogen atoms in the voids the outrushing galaxies leave behind, which
is due to some process that makes use of photonic

You propose to make hydrogen atoms from photons? Wow.

and/or gravitational energy

Gravitational energy is negative. You can't make matter, which has
positive energy, from it.

as the building material, rather than relying on *nothing* as the
building material.

Who ever said that "nothing" is the building material?

By such a hypothesis, as the present galaxies rush apart the spaces they
leave behind fill up with hydrogen, plus any supernova ejecta left over
from the old galaxies, plus material cast off by galactic jets, etc.
Then that material condenses under the action of gravitation to form
dust clouds, when then contract further to form dim galaxies, and, still
later, as stars within the dim galaxies begin to light up, normal
galaxies of the usual sort appear. Note, however, that as soon as the
new galaxies light up, they begin ejecting photons into the surrounding
intergalactic spaces. And, a bit later, black holes begin forming within
them and, if my hypothesis is correct, they throw off their matter in
the form of axial, superluminal jets of gravity particles.

What are "gravity particles"?

Eventually,
because of such losses, the new galaxies will themselves disappear.

And only jets will be left? Then why were jets without galaxies never
observed?

Bottom line: the universe always seems to be expanding, as visible
galaxies rush away from one another, but its overall appearance never
changes much, because new galaxies are always taking the places of the
older galaxies as they rush away.

Well, if new galaxies are formed all the time, then please explain why
we see only young stars in galaxies which are far away from us, but
older and older stars when we look to galaxies more close to us.
Bye,
Bjoern
.


User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher"

Title: Re: Astronomers, Cosmologists, Finally Gone Bye Bye Wacko 21 Mar 2005 05:14:32 AM
Mitchell Jones wrote:

In article <d1980a$pcm$2@news.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
Bjoern Feuerbacher <feuerbac@thphys.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:


glbrad01 wrote:

Astronomers have found newborn, middle-aged, and dead or dying galaxies
more
than 12 billion light years from Earth. They now say (from the article at
space.com) that there was as much variety back then as we witness around us
today. But they still put all that space and time variation as altogether
being in the neighborhood of from 2 billion years--to less than 1 billion
years--after a so-called Big Bang beginning to everything.


"less than 1 billion years" is news to me. Where did you get that from?



***{See
http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/galaxies_early_universe.html,
for one possible source.

That article does not talk about galaxies at "less than 1 billion
years after the Big Bang".
Try again.

The big bang has been busted again, Bjoern.

Why do you think so?
[snip more ramblings]

The next thing we are going to hear from
them is that they have discovered more of the same 13.5 billion to 14
billion light years from Earth and that it sprang whole, including
springing
aged (or better yet, 'antiqued'), in about six days from the instant of the
Big Bang beginning (the seventh day being a day of rest).


Nice straw man. Why don't we wait until we have actual observations
off the stuff existing at such an early time (e.g. in a few years
from the James Webb telescope) and then discuss this further?



***{What would be the point? Establishment cosmologists will just lay
some soothing words on these results and chuck them into the same bag
with cosmic acceleration, anomalous galactic rotation, superluminal
jets, and all the other stuff that gives reasonable people fits. The
"experts" don't care, so the public doesn't care. Result: the big bang
will die when its proponents are in their graves, and thus are forced to
relinquish their positions of influence to younger men who are willing
to follow the evidence. And that's all there is to that story. --MJ}***

Again: Nice straw man. Why don't we wait until we have actual
observations off the stuff existing at such an early time (e.g. in a
few years from the James Webb telescope) and then discuss this further?
But apparently you two prefer making up wild stories about what *will*
be observed, and what *will* happen then.
Bye,
Bjoern
.




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