Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Jay R. Yablon"
Date: 16 Oct 2005 10:52:02 PM
Object: Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors
Hello again:
I just posted some further materials at
http://home.nycap.rr.com/jry/FermionMass.htm, regarding my very strong
suspicion that baryons are third rank antisymmetric tensors, including the
basic Feynman and scattering diagrams for a third rank antisymmetric tensor
which you will see seem to be suggestive of a baryon.
Jay.
_____________________________
Jay R. Yablon
Email:

.

User: "FrediFizzx"

Title: Re: Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors 17 Oct 2005 03:24:36 AM
"Jay R. Yablon" <jyablon@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CdF4f.71186$7b6.63826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Hello again:
|
| I just posted some further materials at
| http://home.nycap.rr.com/jry/FermionMass.htm, regarding my very strong
| suspicion that baryons are third rank antisymmetric tensors, including
the
| basic Feynman and scattering diagrams for a third rank antisymmetric
tensor
| which you will see seem to be suggestive of a baryon.
Jay, I was reading in Weinberg's "Supersymmetry" book that spinors can't
have a tensor representation. So if a baryon is a composite of three
spinors (quarks), how can we have a tensor representation of a single
baryon that is a composite fermion? What am I missing? Now, I
understand that bosons composed of two spinors can have a tensor
representation.
FrediFizzx
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps
http://www.vacuum-physics.com
.
User: "Jay R. Yablon"

Title: Re: Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors 17 Oct 2005 07:50:43 AM
Fred,
I don't think Weinberg is necessarily saying this. For example, the current
for a fermion is J^u = (psi-bar gamma^u psi) where gamma^u are the Dirac
matrices. J^u of course, is a four-vector (first rank tensor) in spacetime,
and represent the current originating from the Fermion. The baryons I am
constructing follow a similar path. In both cases, a psi-bar is hooked
together with psi via a Dirac gamma, and it is this pairing that allows a
tensor formulation.
Jay.
_____________________________
Jay R. Yablon
910 Northumberland Drive
Schenectady, New York 12309-2814
Phone / Fax: 518-377-6737
Email:

"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3rh56qFj2f3vU1@individual.net...

"Jay R. Yablon" <

> wrote in message
news:CdF4f.71186$7b6.63826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Hello again:
|
| I just posted some further materials at
| http://home.nycap.rr.com/jry/FermionMass.htm, regarding my very strong
| suspicion that baryons are third rank antisymmetric tensors, including
the
| basic Feynman and scattering diagrams for a third rank antisymmetric
tensor
| which you will see seem to be suggestive of a baryon.

Jay, I was reading in Weinberg's "Supersymmetry" book that spinors can't
have a tensor representation. So if a baryon is a composite of three
spinors (quarks), how can we have a tensor representation of a single
baryon that is a composite fermion? What am I missing? Now, I
understand that bosons composed of two spinors can have a tensor
representation.

FrediFizzx

http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
or postscript
http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps

http://www.vacuum-physics.com

.
User: "FrediFizzx"

Title: Re: Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors 17 Oct 2005 02:19:33 PM
"Jay R. Yablon" <jyablon@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D6N4f.71208$7b6.43320@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Fred,
|
| I don't think Weinberg is necessarily saying this. For example, the
current
| for a fermion is J^u = (psi-bar gamma^u psi) where gamma^u are the
Dirac
| matrices. J^u of course, is a four-vector (first rank tensor) in
spacetime,
| and represent the current originating from the Fermion. The baryons I
am
| constructing follow a similar path. In both cases, a psi-bar is
hooked
| together with psi via a Dirac gamma, and it is this pairing that
allows a
| tensor formulation.
Oops, maybe I phrased that poorly? Let me quote what he actually says
in chapter 31;
"Supergravity necessarily involves spinor as well as tensor fields, so
we will have to describe gravitational fields in terms of a vierbein (or
tetrad) e^a_u(x) rather than a metric,..."
So why would he be specifying spinor and tensor fields separately here?
Then in the Appendix for 31 he says;
"Unlike vectors and tensors, spinors have a Lorentz transformation rule
that has no natural generalization to arbitrary coordinate systems."
He does seem to be saying that spinors are different from vectors and
tensors. Well, it just seems obvious to me since spinors do have a
unique direction. So maybe it is not that baryons are a third rank
antisymmetric tensor but this tensor is representing something about the
baryon? Similar to how J^u is the current for a fermion?
FrediFizzx
| "FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:3rh56qFj2f3vU1@individual.net...
| > "Jay R. Yablon" <jyablon@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
| > news:CdF4f.71186$7b6.63826@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| > | Hello again:
| > |
| > | I just posted some further materials at
| > | http://home.nycap.rr.com/jry/FermionMass.htm, regarding my very
strong
| > | suspicion that baryons are third rank antisymmetric tensors,
including
| > the
| > | basic Feynman and scattering diagrams for a third rank
antisymmetric
| > tensor
| > | which you will see seem to be suggestive of a baryon.
| >
| > Jay, I was reading in Weinberg's "Supersymmetry" book that spinors
can't
| > have a tensor representation. So if a baryon is a composite of
three
| > spinors (quarks), how can we have a tensor representation of a
single
| > baryon that is a composite fermion? What am I missing? Now, I
| > understand that bosons composed of two spinors can have a tensor
| > representation.
| >
| > FrediFizzx
| >
| > http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.pdf
| > or postscript
| > http://www.vacuum-physics.com/QVC/quantum_vacuum_charge.ps
| >
| > http://www.vacuum-physics.com
.
User: "Jay R. Yablon"

Title: Re: Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors 17 Oct 2005 02:44:54 PM
So maybe it is not that baryons are a third rank

antisymmetric tensor but this tensor is representing something about the
baryon? Similar to how J^u is the current for a fermion?

Yes, Fred, I like better, your way of putting this.
Jay.
.

User: "Ken S. Tucker"

Title: Re: Baryons as Third Rank Antisymmetric Tensors 20 Oct 2005 12:10:33 AM
Hi Fred Jay and all
FrediFizzx wrote:

"Jay R. Yablon" <jyablon@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D6N4f.71208$7b6.43320@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
| Fred,
|
| I don't think Weinberg is necessarily saying this. For example, the
current
| for a fermion is J^u = (psi-bar gamma^u psi) where gamma^u are the
Dirac
| matrices. J^u of course, is a four-vector (first rank tensor) in
spacetime,
| and represent the current originating from the Fermion. The baryons I
am
| constructing follow a similar path. In both cases, a psi-bar is
hooked
| together with psi via a Dirac gamma, and it is this pairing that
allows a
| tensor formulation.

Oops, maybe I phrased that poorly? Let me quote what he actually says
in chapter 31;

"Supergravity necessarily involves spinor as well as tensor fields, so
we will have to describe gravitational fields in terms of a vierbein (or
tetrad) e^a_u(x) rather than a metric,..."

So why would he be specifying spinor and tensor fields separately here?
Then in the Appendix for 31 he says;

"Unlike vectors and tensors, spinors have a Lorentz transformation rule
that has no natural generalization to arbitrary coordinate systems."

He does seem to be saying that spinors are different from vectors and
tensors. Well, it just seems obvious to me since spinors do have a
unique direction. So maybe it is not that baryons are a third rank
antisymmetric tensor but this tensor is representing something about the
baryon? Similar to how J^u is the current for a fermion?

Weinberg in Grav&Cosmo pg 58, 1st paragraph, discusses
introducing spinors, in the Lorentz transform to account
for "1/2 integer spin" denoted by omega in 2.12.5, and
is anti-symmetric.
Later on pg 365, "The Tetrad Formalism" he shows how
"spinors" can be incorporated into GR.
For interest see pg 367 where he mentions "dual
classification".
((IMHO I'm uncomfortable with spinors together with
a continuum, look at his 2.12.5 again and see the
condition,
|omega^a_b| << 1
that's a bit of a "shoe horn"))
Anyway he's trying to lay the ground work for
relativistic quantum field theory.

FrediFizzx

Regards
Ken S. Tucker
.





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