| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"mike3" |
| Date: |
12 Dec 2004 04:01:52 PM |
| Object: |
Black Holes |
Hi.
I'm curious as to what happens when a stellar core
collapses into a black hole. Specifically, what happens
when the neutron degeneracy pressure is overcome and
the collapse to a black hole starts? What is happening
to those neutrons as they are squeezed?
--
We should have a town named Alderaan
someday. No, seriously. Let's put it on
the table.
.
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| User: "Old Man" |
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| Title: Re: Black Holes |
12 Dec 2004 07:54:43 PM |
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"mike3" <mike4ty4@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kd3vd.7648$RV3.1393@news01.roc.ny...
Hi.
I'm curious as to what happens when a stellar core
collapses into a black hole. Specifically, what happens
when the neutron degeneracy pressure is overcome and
the collapse to a black hole starts? What is happening
to those neutrons as they are squeezed?
No one knows. GTR, being a classical theory, is forced
to contradict the predictions of Quantum mechanics in this.
GTR postulates that black holes, "have no hair". That is,
The conservation of quantum number that differentiates a
neutron from other kinds of particle (such as an electron),
called, "baryon number", is violated by black hole formation.
In the core of a star, the baryon number is equal to the
total number of neutrons and protons. Empirically, in all
kinds of experiments, this number is invariably observed to
be conserved, but GTR, without derivation or explanation,
postulates that a black hole has no baryon number. A black
hole has no hair.
What is needed is a quantum theory for gravity.
[Old Man]
.
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| User: "Ross A. Finlayson" |
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| Title: Re: Black Holes |
12 Dec 2004 09:26:51 PM |
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Every particle would seem to have a non-zero Schwarzschild
radius larger than its nucleus, ie be a black hole. The
atomic mass of hydrogen is 1 atomic mass unit, which is ~
1/6.022 * 10^23 g, so its Schwarzschild radius is 1.5/6.022
* 10^-50, so it is not so that every nucleus is smaller than
its Schwarzschild radius if the radius of the proton in
meters is greater than that scalar value, with the radius of
the proton being 0.8 * 10^-15 m that is not so. The density
of the hydrogen nucleus would be around 1/ 4/3 pi r^3 amu,
or (3/4pi) *(6.022/1.5)^3 * 10^150 amu/m^3, divide that by A
to get amus. So about 10 kilograms of hydrogen would have
to be put into the radius of the proton to get a black
hole. It also seems that for a larger radius that less
mass, comparatively, is required, the same amount correlated
to the third order. That's some nonsense. It's just less
density. For example to keep it simple, 2/3 *10^27 grams
has a Schwarzschild radius of 1 m, the density would be 2/3
* 3/4pi * 10^27 g/m^3, or 1/2pi *10^27 g/m^3, or 6.022/2pi *
10^50 amu/m^3, a difference of a hundred orders of decimal
magnitude in density for a change in orders of magnitude of
fifteen in radius.
So, in the large black holes form more easily, ie, with less
density. Is there an asymptotic point where everything is a
black hole?
So, I think we can be less concerned about accidentally
creating black holes here on Earth. If we do, it's
goodnight, Gracie.
Warm regards,
Ross F.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Black Holes |
12 Dec 2004 08:06:36 PM |
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mike3 wrote:
Hi.
I'm curious as to what happens when a stellar core
collapses into a black hole. Specifically, what happens
when the neutron degeneracy pressure is overcome and
the collapse to a black hole starts? What is happening
to those neutrons as they are squeezed?
This is really hard to model in at least two regards
1. knowing the right physics
2. Computation power
Advances in the latter will probably help sorting out
the former.
.
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| User: "mike3" |
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| Title: Re: Black Holes |
13 Dec 2004 02:37:39 AM |
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"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:MO6vd.251582$R05.31709@attbi_s53...
mike3 wrote:
Hi.
I'm curious as to what happens when a stellar core
collapses into a black hole. Specifically, what happens
when the neutron degeneracy pressure is overcome and
the collapse to a black hole starts? What is happening
to those neutrons as they are squeezed?
This is really hard to model in at least two regards
1. knowing the right physics
2. Computation power
Advances in the latter will probably help sorting out
the former.
Why is (2) needed so mcuh? Is it because of the required power
needed to manipulate exact equations millions of letters long?
.
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| User: "John Sefton" |
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| Title: Re: Black Holes |
12 Dec 2004 08:08:07 PM |
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mike3 wrote:
Hi.
I'm curious as to what happens when a stellar core
collapses into a black hole. Specifically, what happens
when the neutron degeneracy pressure is overcome and
the collapse to a black hole starts? What is happening
to those neutrons as they are squeezed?
they get off?
.
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