Can Photon have an Internal Structure??



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Kyle"
Date: 21 Aug 2005 03:08:35 AM
Object: Can Photon have an Internal Structure??
http://www.unifiedphysics.com/Photon%20chemistry_UP_Mar_2004.pdf
http://www.unifiedphysics.com/photonics.htm
Is it possible or 100% impossible? What do you think?
Kyle
.

User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 02:13:13 PM
Kyle wrote:


http://www.unifiedphysics.com/Photon%20chemistry_UP_Mar_2004.pdf

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/photonics.htm

Is it possible or 100% impossible? What do you think?

It's crap. It's *****. The links are undignified turds
celebrating the power and majesty of congenital stupidity amplified by
willful ignorance.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.

User: "John Sefton"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 30 Aug 2005 12:53:44 PM
Kyle wrote:

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/Photon%20chemistry_UP_Mar_2004.pdf

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/photonics.htm


Is it possible or 100% impossible? What do you think?

Kyle

It is impossible for *anything* to NOT
have an internal structure.
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 30 Aug 2005 03:44:31 PM
John Sefton wrote:


It is impossible for *anything* to NOT
have an internal structure.

Thanks for registering at crank dot net
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22GALAXY+MODEL+For+The+ATOM%22+site%3Awww.crank.net
.
User: "TomGee"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 09:47:15 AM
See, John? When you play with pigs, they will ***** on you.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 10:53:28 AM
See, John? When you play with pigs, they will ***** on you.
Cowz do the same thing. Only bigger.
"Best just to joots from endless, meaningless debate" - Douglas R.
Hofstadter
.
User: "Orion"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 01:39:51 PM
Good question. Unfortunately we don't have any means to answer that.
In fact if electrons appear in and out of existence at various points
around the nucleus then there must be something more fundamental
between the electrons and the nucleus like vacuum signals or something.
.



User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 31 Aug 2005 12:41:06 AM
i dont know if th photon has an internal or external structure
yet
*it has some structure*
because a photon is not a dumb formula on a flat paper
it is some physical entity
and a physical entity has structure!
it certainly has mass
because
energy is mass in motion
got it mathematics parrots ??
ATB
Y.Porat
-------------
.
User: "tony fleming"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 09:33:14 AM
(1) at the atomic level we have the particles as the electron, proton,
etc, and the field is composed of photons we can use either QM or EMSFT
to investigate its structure and energy spectroscopy
(2) if we assume that the 'field' is fractal, in particular there is a
lower level of 'field' in the normal sense of fractal; we now have the
photon as a particle;
(3) we can use the same mathematics that was used to investigate the
hydrogen atom. i.e. either QM or SFT. note that this field is NOT an
EM field but it does have a similar composition in that there is now a
tiny tiny particle that makes up ITS field
(4) when we do this we must now have certain conditions on the photon's
internal structure; since its energy spectrum is continuous, one way to
arrange this via the mathematics is to have two subophotonic particles
of equal mass and opposite charge. now from the balmer-like solution
ANY frequency is a valid solution to the maxwell-lorentz equations.
(5) the mass and charge can be determined from the maths to see whether
this matches other phenomena including the energy density foe E-fields
etc.
(6) is there proof for any such photon spectroscopy? yes, in brief the
physics of hydration and its role in the functioning of DNA.
(7) what does all this mean? well it gives us a "photon chemistry"
which yields a picture not unlike the standard model of particle
physics, and extends our depth of view from what QFT gives us. it
gives us a "unified" picture of phenomena; this picture is really an
extension of the findings some 100 years ago when it was found that
electromagnetics could be extended over decades and decades of
frequency and many previously thought separate phenomena such as light
were brought under the one theoretical umbrella. now we find, like the
standard model, that the equations can be modified to suit the force
involved; something very like gauge groups exists in SFT as it does in
the standard model
(8) note that there are differences between SFT and 'classical' EM and
SFT and QFT; mainly the fact that centre-of-motion fields are used by
SFT means that HUP is not present in any form in SFT and hence we can
obtain the motions rather than just the probability that a particle is
at a point in space-time.
(9) SFT allows various 2D spinorial structures that are apriori
relativistic and can be seen to approximate to special relativity where
the curvature of one of the spinors is very large.
(10) the differences in SFT to QFT and the standard model will
influence many areas of physics and biophysics over the coming decades.
i have no personal or monetary ambitions in ANY of this; i want to
'spread my gospel' for the betterment of mankind, it is my earnest
belief that SFT contains the germ of knowledge we need going into the
new millenium to help us search for new energy sources and improved
medical techniques. so please feel free to ask me anything about SFT
and if you feel inclined to use it in your academic studies do with the
usual reference to my work of course please.
.
User: "Autymn D. C."

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 13 Sep 2005 02:12:07 PM
millenium -> millennium
.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 15 Sep 2005 02:31:57 AM
Hi psycho!
you are disturbing the physics discussion.
no one is interested in your spelling lectures.crook!
Y.P
-------------------------
.
User: "G=EMC^2 Glazier"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 15 Sep 2005 08:21:01 AM
Yes a photon has a structure but not internal. The external structure of
a photon is it goes everywhere with its twin the "virtual" photon. The
two never touch because they have a wave seperating them. Reality is
the shorter the wave between them the more energy they can have, and
visa-versa. My theory of the photon comes out of my "Spin is in"
theory" Best to keep in mind nature only can create in pairs. That is
proven easily by our great accelerators creatingn electron and
positrons. Bert
.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 15 Sep 2005 09:58:06 AM
how it is proven?
TIA
Y.Porat
-------------------------------------------------------
.

User: "Autymn D. C."

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 16 Sep 2005 12:06:34 AM
separating
vice
.




User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 10:46:11 AM
tony fleming wrote:

(1) at the atomic level we have the particles as the electron, proton,
etc, and the field is composed of photons we can use either QM or EMSFT
to investigate its structure and energy spectroscopy

who assured you that the photons make the fields??
a photon moves in astright line!!
so it can do only repulsion just at the goo Case that it is not
lost by missing the target!!.....
--


(2) if we assume that the 'field' is fractal, in particular there is a
lower level of 'field' in the normal sense of fractal; we now have the
photon as a particle;

see above
in my understanding the photon is not a field maker but
*a result* of some force that pushes it out.
-----


(3) we can use the same mathematics that was used to investigate the
hydrogen atom. i.e. either QM or SFT. note that this field is NOT an
EM field but it does have a similar composition in that there is now a
tiny tiny particle that makes up ITS field

nice yet we dont know what are the properties of that tiny particle!
------


(4) when we do this we must now have certain conditions on the photon's
internal structure; since its energy spectrum is continuous, one way to
arrange this via the mathematics is to have two subophotonic particles

mathematics cannot be a leader on that issue
there must be a physics understanding first
the idea the mathematics can lead the stuck in the mud situation
proved again and again false.
we are now stuck in the mud!! not accidentally!!
--

of equal mass and opposite charge.

that is just a guess!
guesses are OK but should be considered as such.
---------
now from the balmer-like solution

ANY frequency is a valid solution to the maxwell-lorentz equations.

that is one of the big mistakes!!
one should realize that physics is not all along overlapping the Maths
iow
a mathematic equation in physics generally has its
*limits of validation!!
that is one of the big misunderstandings of physics mathematicians!!
----------


(5) the mass and charge can be determined from the maths to see whether
this matches other phenomena including the energy density foe E-fields
etc.

see above:
according the existing maths -the photon has zero mass
that is a direct result from the above big misunderstanding!
------


(6) is there proof for any such photon spectroscopy? yes, in brief the
physics of hydration and its role in the functioning of DNA.

some news for you
the Hydrogen spectrum is far from the complexity of much heavier
Atoms
there is now no complete solution for all the periodic table
and that is again because of false *physical* assumptions./
----------


(7) what does all this mean? well it gives us a "photon chemistry"
which yields a picture not unlike the standard model of particle

not unlike??
that is jumping to conclusions!!
iow wrong extrapolation.
--------

physics, and extends our depth of view from what QFT gives us. it
gives us a "unified" picture of phenomena; this picture is really an
extension of the findings some 100 years ago when it was found that
electromagnetics could be extended over decades and decades of
frequency

??????
--
and many previously thought separate phenomena such as light

were brought under the one theoretical umbrella.

a very wishful thinking far from the real situation
of knowledge.
---------
now we find, like the

standard model, that the equations can be modified to suit the force
involved; something very like gauge groups exists in SFT as it does in
the standard model

????????
----


(8) note that there are differences between SFT and 'classical' EM and
SFT and QFT;

i hope so !! (:-)
----------
mainly the fact that centre-of-motion fields are used by

SFT means that HUP is not present in any form in SFT and hence we can
obtain the motions rather than just the probability that a particle is
at a point in space-time.

the only thing i can agree with you is that
The HUP can be bypassed by the proper experimental data
i published a thread on it lately!1
--------


(9) SFT allows various 2D spinorial structures that are apriori
relativistic and can be seen to approximate to special relativity where
the curvature of one of the spinors is very large.

how do you get hat curvature??
have you ever hared about my 'Circlon'??
----------


(10) the differences in SFT to QFT and the standard model will
influence many areas of physics and biophysics over the coming decades.

i have no personal or monetary ambitions in ANY of this; i want to
'spread my gospel' for the betterment of mankind, it is my earnest
belief that SFT contains the germ of knowledge we need going into the
new millenium to help us search for new energy sources and improved
medical techniques. so please feel free to ask me anything about SFT
and if you feel inclined to use it in your academic studies do with the

i am not a fromal academy man
yet i join your optimism!!
--------

usual reference to my work of course please.

ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------
.
User: "Autymn D. C."

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 13 Sep 2005 02:14:15 PM
what are the properties of that tiny particle -> what the properties of
that tiny particle are
stuck in the mud situation -> stuck-in-the-mud situation
i -> I
i -> I
.



User: "PD"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 03:06:42 PM
Y.Porat wrote:

i dont know if th photon has an internal or external structure
yet
*it has some structure*
because a photon is not a dumb formula on a flat paper
it is some physical entity
and a physical entity has structure!

That's a remarkable statement. What defines "structure" in your
meaning? Smaller parts? Coupling between the smaller parts? Different
interaction to account for the different size scale of the composite?


it certainly has mass
because
energy is mass in motion
got it mathematics parrots ??

ATB
Y.Porat
-------------

.
User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 11:40:12 PM
OK
at last a good question of a non parrot!!
because the known parrots never even started asking those questions
so
disclaimer:
anything i say now is *guesses*
because no one really know
*and it should well be known that it is unknown* (:-)
i could start from the end line of my guess:
suppose a very tiny basic particle that moves naturally in a closed
circle
that in addition to its circular motion got another kick from a
'friend'
in some Angle to its plan of circular movement
the result of that is ...... *a helix movement*
oh yes i forgot that this 'Circlon particle' moves naturally and
perpetually
(in its circular movement) with the speed of light!!
(sound fantastic to our imagination to move so fast in such a small
dimensions)
now to go on with my wild guesses:
that helix can have not lust one Circlon but many of them in a
procession
at the same helix imaginary path
(i forgot to note that this 'hellix is imaginaty* since it is not all
laong
populated with subparticles but only 'tels them where to go'....
and that heliximaginaryLongsub particles can be of a small radius or a
huge one
depends on the start movement of that Circlon.
and the 'pace; of that helixhelix can be small (high frequency)
or very big (low frequency)!
how is that guess for a start ??
TIA
Y.Porat
------------------------------
.



User: "tony fleming"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 30 Aug 2005 09:44:35 PM
i guess one issue is whether the 'massless' photon is an approximation
used by earlier physicists and STILL being used by many today, or
whether we now have a theoretical reason (see the hydrogen paper and
the eigenvalue structure in which the electron energy is balanced by
the photon energy, and this leads to a mathematical insight as to the
fracticality of the field.
i guess its 'crap' to those engineering gung-ho types who asked the
military to stand around watching the a-bomb to see if there were any
health effects to the soldiers.
.


User: "PD"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 02:43:23 PM
John Sefton wrote:

Kyle wrote:

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/Photon%20chemistry_UP_Mar_2004.pdf

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/photonics.htm


Is it possible or 100% impossible? What do you think?

Kyle


It is impossible for *anything* to NOT
have an internal structure.

That is a remarkable statement. What makes you think so?
Moreover, please define "structure" so I can be sure we're talking
about the same thing.
PD
.


User: "Jim Black"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 07:40:54 AM
Kyle wrote:

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/Photon%20chemistry_UP_Mar_2004.pdf

http://www.unifiedphysics.com/photonics.htm


Is it possible or 100% impossible? What do you think?

Kyle

It is definitely not 100% impossible. This, of course, means that it
takes just as much faith to believe in the Standard Model as it does to
believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Intelligent Falling, Last
Thursdayism, and Cinquirer not trolling us.
I thought you were going to learn how to use a remailer. It's just as
well; it wouldn't help you any.
.
User: "mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 08:35:39 AM
In article <1124628727.605188.217440@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:

What's a remailer? I'm a newbie.

Of course, a photon doesn't have internal structure. It along with

photons are self propagating impulse structure in space time
all properties of photons are derived from wave interaction within the structure
arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together
the erisian constancy - though chaos is transformed
but never lost to sea - grey ordered ranks are swarmed
.

User: "mariposas rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 09:03:01 AM
In article <1124629976.428634.87800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:

I love you.

im not that kind of bot
arf meow arf - dogs and cats living together
the erisian constancy - though chaos is transformed
but never lost to sea - grey ordered ranks are swarmed
.


User: "TomGee"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 06:48:07 PM
Yes. As explained in my model of the universe, the structure of a
photon is Dark Matter initially, or, negative mass. It is a latent
photon particle then, or, an invisible particle. As an em wave
collides with it, the invisible particle is transformed into a visible
particle and we see it then as light.
A photon, then, has a structure of negative mass at first while it is
invisible to us, and one of positive mass with +energy when it becomes
visible to us.
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 08:09:02 PM
TomGee wrote:

Yes. As explained in my model of the universe, the structure of a
photon is Dark Matter initially, or, negative mass.

Total ***** TomGee--BTW, your list of Immortal Fumbles is
getting quite long.
http://www.google.com/search?q=TomGee+fumble+site%3Ausers.pandora.be
Highly embarrassing!
.
User: "TomGee"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 22 Aug 2005 12:20:21 AM
My my Worms. You continue to make those weird noises like pigs farting
only its coming out of your mouth! Yes, I agree that can be very
embarrassing for some people, but not you because you're not really a
person who can be embarrassed by anything, are you?
Instead of just mouthing your pigshit, why not try to say why you
disagree? You haven't a clue about that, do you? Lemmings don't care
to say why, they just do or die whatever their Head Lemming says.
Too bad you turned into such an idiot, Worms, you started out not too
badly but I guess everyone putting down your pigshit has got you down
to where you grovel nowadays. Pity....
.
User: "John Sefton"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 22 Aug 2005 09:43:34 AM
TomGee wrote:

My my Worms. You continue to make those weird noises like pigs farting
only its coming out of your mouth! Yes, I agree that can be very
embarrassing for some people, but not you because you're not really a
person who can be embarrassed by anything, are you?

Instead of just mouthing your pigshit, why not try to say why you
disagree? You haven't a clue about that, do you? Lemmings don't care
to say why, they just do or die whatever their Head Lemming says.

Too bad you turned into such an idiot, Worms, you started out not too
badly but I guess everyone putting down your pigshit has got you down
to where you grovel nowadays. Pity....

What you know about lemmings is from a movie
and is totally false.
Unfortunately, movies are providing most of what
people take in these days.
Advice: read books.
John
.
User: "TomGee"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 22 Aug 2005 11:42:30 AM
John, the book I read has Lemmings following their leaders over cliffs
every so often. What's false about that? And what movie are you
talking about? Is Worms in it? I'd go see it just to see him go over
the cliff. Saaaayyyy! You're not trying to pull a Worms act on me,
are you? The topic has to do with photon structure, not Lemmings or
pigshit.
When pigshit Worms has no clue - which is almost always - he resorts to
"off-tracking", the act of distraction from the topic of discussion.
Do you have any position on whether or not photons have structure?
.




User: "PD"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 12 Sep 2005 03:03:59 PM
TomGee wrote:

Yes. As explained in my model of the universe, the structure of a
photon is Dark Matter initially, or, negative mass. It is a latent
photon particle then, or, an invisible particle. As an em wave
collides with it, the invisible particle is transformed into a visible
particle and we see it then as light.

What are the inertial and gravitational properties of negative mass?
What is the nature of the interaction (e.g. what is the proposed
exchange boson?) between an e.m. wave and the dark matter particle?
What is the speed of a latent photon particle? Does the speed of the
emergent visible photon depend on the speed of the latent photon
particle? Why or why not?
Does the latent photon particle carry momentum? What is the connection
between the momentum of the wave (if any), the momentum of the latent
photon particle, and the emergent photon particle?
If negative mass is converted into positive mass, where does the change
in invariant mass come from? Or does your model violate invariant mass
conservation?
If the e.m. wave converts to a radio photon or a gamma photon, neither
of these are visible light. What is the process involved there?


A photon, then, has a structure of negative mass at first while it is
invisible to us, and one of positive mass with +energy when it becomes
visible to us.

A photon has positive mass? How much? (If that's energy dependent, then
what's the formula for the relationship between the photon's energy and
its mass?)
If a photon has mass, this means it can have a helicity flip, depending
on the frame of reference. That is, if I produce a photon in a process
that determines its helicity to be a particular value, then I should be
able to observe that process in a frame of reference where the flip is
reversed, as is true for all massive particles. Is this so?
What is it about positive and negative energy that makes positive
energy visible and negative energy invisible?
What is the interaction of negative energy with matter?
PD
.


User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 08:17:09 AM
try ahellix
generally many 'photon particles' runing inside that hellix (just a
wild guess)
ATB
Y.Porat
-------------------------------
.
User: "Zigoteau"

Title: Re: Can Photon have an Internal Structure?? 21 Aug 2005 10:07:44 AM
Hi, Yehiel,

try ahellix
generally many 'photon particles' runing inside that hellix

What's happened to your spellchecker?

(just a wild guess)

You, Yehiel? Given to wild guessing? Well, I never.
Cheers,
Zigoteau.
.



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