| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"habshi" |
| Date: |
16 Aug 2004 10:49:30 AM |
| Object: |
Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water and which is said to be
capable of circling the globe using less power than your average lightbulb, heralds a new age of
clean, quiet motoring. In 15-20 years, hydrogen powered vehicles could be commonplace on the roads,
they say.
But only the diminutive will be able to drive the dolphin-shaped BOC Gh2ost at present - at 40kg, it
weighs less than the interior fittings of a standard family saloon.
The car is expected to need the equivalent of just two gallons of petrol to navigate the globe using
25 watts of power.
This week it will travel to the mainland in an attempt to break the world fuel efficiency record,
which stands at 10,705 miles per gallon, during the Shell Eco Marathon in Aberdeenshire.
"It sounds unbelievable how little power is used to keep the BOC Gh2ost moving," said John Carolin,
global director for the gas giant BOC's hydrogen energy division. "It demonstrates the impact of
careful design.
"Hydrogen power could create a pollution and noise-free environment and bring vital transport
solutions to people in poorer parts of the world. Petrol vehicle emissions are a major contributor
to rising levels of greenhouse gases and the depletion of fossil fuels. Hydrogen is odourless and
tasteless and is the most abundant element in the universe."
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The car's fuel-cell technology has been supplied by the Aberdeen-based firm siGEN, and its
sea-mammal form, designed by a racing car expert is constructed of carbon fibre and lightweight
aluminium. It has been assembled and road-tested in the Shetland isles.
Experts say that to stand a chance of cracking the fuel-efficiency record, the car has to be as
light as possible.
"The total weight of this car will be under 40kg," said Dave McGrath of siGEN. "It will be lighter
that the front seats of an average family car."
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| User: "habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 10:52:59 AM |
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Why cant they make it do 5 or 2000 miles per gallon and able to carry an over 100kg person
like me ? Would love to have to fill up just once every three months.
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| User: "Ian Stirling" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 04:53:51 PM |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.net> wrote:
Why cant they make it do 5 or 2000 miles per gallon and able to carry an over 100kg person
like me ? Would love to have to fill up just once every three months.
No, you don't.
Look at the fuel capacity, and I suspect that it'll only achieve anything
like that on perfectly smooth level roads at constant speed.
Even only considering average driving styles (accellerating and decellerating,
going at highway speeds) and completely neglecting the fact that
the shape isn't really practical (dangerously low) and that the wheels
are not safe at highway speeds, you won't get anything near that milage.
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| User: "Jaxtraw" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 04:44:52 PM |
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"habshi" <habshi@anony.net> wrote in message
news:4120d5f6.7682677@news.clara.net...
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have
become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water
and which is said to be
capable of circling the globe using less power than your average
lightbulb, heralds a new age of
clean, quiet motoring. In 15-20 years, hydrogen powered vehicles could be
commonplace on the roads,
they say.
But only the diminutive will be able to drive the dolphin-shaped BOC
Gh2ost at present - at 40kg, it
weighs less than the interior fittings of a standard family saloon.
The car is expected to need the equivalent of just two gallons of petrol
to navigate the globe using
25 watts of power.
This week it will travel to the mainland in an attempt to break the world
fuel efficiency record,
which stands at 10,705 miles per gallon, during the Shell Eco Marathon in
Aberdeenshire.
"It sounds unbelievable how little power is used to keep the BOC Gh2ost
moving," said John Carolin,
global director for the gas giant BOC's hydrogen energy division. "It
demonstrates the impact of
careful design.
"Hydrogen power could create a pollution and noise-free environment and
bring vital transport
solutions to people in poorer parts of the world. Petrol vehicle emissions
are a major contributor
to rising levels of greenhouse gases and the depletion of fossil fuels.
Hydrogen is odourless and
tasteless and is the most abundant element in the universe."
Sadly though, we haven't got any of it on earth in an uncombined state. The
only way to achieve a net gain of usable energy from hydrogen is with
nuclear fusion, which seems to be pretty much as far in the future as ever
:(
Ian
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| User: "Rob Eldred" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 07:50:32 PM |
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"habshi" <habshi@anony.net> wrote in message
news:4120d5f6.7682677@news.clara.net...
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have
become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water
and which is said to be
capable of circling the globe using less power than your average
lightbulb, heralds a new age of
clean, quiet motoring. In 15-20 years, hydrogen powered vehicles could be
commonplace on the roads,
they say.
But only the diminutive will be able to drive the dolphin-shaped BOC
Gh2ost at present - at 40kg, it
weighs less than the interior fittings of a standard family saloon.
The car is expected to need the equivalent of just two gallons of petrol
to navigate the globe using
25 watts of power.
This week it will travel to the mainland in an attempt to break the world
fuel efficiency record,
which stands at 10,705 miles per gallon, during the Shell Eco Marathon in
Aberdeenshire.
"It sounds unbelievable how little power is used to keep the BOC Gh2ost
moving," said John Carolin,
global director for the gas giant BOC's hydrogen energy division. "It
demonstrates the impact of
careful design.
"Hydrogen power could create a pollution and noise-free environment and
bring vital transport
solutions to people in poorer parts of the world. Petrol vehicle emissions
are a major contributor
to rising levels of greenhouse gases and the depletion of fossil fuels.
Hydrogen is odourless and
tasteless and is the most abundant element in the universe."
Advertiser links
Travel Internationally by Volunteering
Experience a country from a whole new perspective by signing...
crossculturalsolutions.org
The Queen's Award for Voluntary Service
To celebrate her Golden Jubilee, the Queen announced an...
queensawardvoluntary.gov.uk
Volunteer Work in South Africa
Gap year and holiday opportunities to volunteer in Southern...
worktravelcompany.co.uk
The car's fuel-cell technology has been supplied by the Aberdeen-based
firm siGEN, and its
sea-mammal form, designed by a racing car expert is constructed of carbon
fibre and lightweight
aluminium. It has been assembled and road-tested in the Shetland isles.
Experts say that to stand a chance of cracking the fuel-efficiency record,
the car has to be as
light as possible.
"The total weight of this car will be under 40kg," said Dave McGrath of
siGEN. "It will be lighter
that the front seats of an average family car."
A 40Kg car that uses 25 watts? Yeah sure, and I'm the pope. 25 watts is
0.033 horsepower. An average bicycle rider expends nearly10 times this much
power from human muscles! Why is this hydrogen hype surrounded by such BS?
Why do they write such garbage and push it on the gullible public? Even is
such a low power consumption could be reached it's very misleading to call
it a car and in anyway imply that this could be a form of transportation.
Furthermore, if 25watts was the goal it would hardly matter if the power
came from gasoline or whatever. The CO2 released at 25watts would be totally
insignificant.
Bob
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| User: "Eric Gisin" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 08:43:06 PM |
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"Rob Eldred" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sDcUc.851$SR4.811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"crack junkie" <habshi@anony.net> wrote in message
news:4120d5f6.7682677@news.clara.net...
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
A 40Kg car that uses 25 watts? Yeah sure, and I'm the pope. 25 watts is
0.033 horsepower. An average bicycle rider expends nearly10 times this much
power from human muscles! Why is this hydrogen hype surrounded by such BS?
Why do they write such garbage and push it on the gullible public? Even is
such a low power consumption could be reached it's very misleading to call
it a car and in anyway imply that this could be a form of transportation.
Furthermore, if 25watts was the goal it would hardly matter if the power
came from gasoline or whatever. The CO2 released at 25watts would be totally
insignificant.
Bob
But it was published in the respectable Guardian. Just like the respectable
hydrogen hype published by msnbc.com and wired.com. Wait till you hear about
the water powered cars.
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| User: "Richard Herring" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 04:23:37 AM |
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In message <cfrntj0s6p@enews3.newsguy.com>, Eric Gisin
<ericgisin@graffiti.net> writes
"Rob Eldred" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sDcUc.851$SR4.811@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
"crack junkie" <habshi@anony.net> wrote in message
news:4120d5f6.7682677@news.clara.net...
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
A 40Kg car that uses 25 watts? Yeah sure, and I'm the pope. 25 watts is
0.033 horsepower. An average bicycle rider expends nearly10 times this much
power from human muscles! Why is this hydrogen hype surrounded by such BS?
Why do they write such garbage and push it on the gullible public? Even is
such a low power consumption could be reached it's very misleading to call
it a car and in anyway imply that this could be a form of transportation.
Furthermore, if 25watts was the goal it would hardly matter if the power
came from gasoline or whatever. The CO2 released at 25watts would be totally
insignificant.
Bob
But it was published in the respectable Guardian.
Alas, it's still respectable (nay, required) in Grauniad-reading circles
to be scientifically illiterate.
--
Richard Herring
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| User: "R. H. Allen" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 09:12:52 AM |
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:50:32 GMT, "Rob Eldred" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com>
wrote:
A 40Kg car that uses 25 watts? Yeah sure, and I'm the pope. 25 watts is
0.033 horsepower. An average bicycle rider expends nearly10 times this much
power from human muscles! Why is this hydrogen hype surrounded by such BS?
Why do they write such garbage and push it on the gullible public? Even is
such a low power consumption could be reached it's very misleading to call
it a car and in anyway imply that this could be a form of transportation.
Furthermore, if 25watts was the goal it would hardly matter if the power
came from gasoline or whatever. The CO2 released at 25watts would be totally
insignificant.
Heck, a 25W car could easily be covered with enough solar cells that you
wouldn't even need to worry about batteries (except, of course, for
driving at night). Then you could forget about refueling altogether, and
battery replacement costs would be insignificant.
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| User: "Paul E. Bennett" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 03:10:42 PM |
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R. H. Allen wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 00:50:32 GMT, "Rob Eldred" <nsmontassoc@yahoo.com>
wrote:
A 40Kg car that uses 25 watts? Yeah sure, and I'm the pope. 25 watts is
0.033 horsepower. An average bicycle rider expends nearly10 times this
much power from human muscles! Why is this hydrogen hype surrounded by
such BS? Why do they write such garbage and push it on the gullible
public? Even is such a low power consumption could be reached it's very
misleading to call it a car and in anyway imply that this could be a form
of transportation. Furthermore, if 25watts was the goal it would hardly
matter if the power came from gasoline or whatever. The CO2 released at
25watts would be totally insignificant.
Heck, a 25W car could easily be covered with enough solar cells that you
wouldn't even need to worry about batteries (except, of course, for
driving at night). Then you could forget about refueling altogether, and
battery replacement costs would be insignificant.
It is amazing how many people are having a downer on this item. The vehicle
in question is built with just one purpose in mind. Just out and out
maximisation of the distance covered per quantity of fuel. I am sure that
accelleration and speed are almost secondary considerations, except that no
one will wait too long for the vehicle to cover the distances. Good luck to
the guys from BOC attempting this feat and may they do well in the
competition.
I wonder what weight the driver is going to be if the car is only 40kg.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................<email://peb@a...>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy .....<http://www.amleth.demon.co.uk/>
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972 .........NOW AVAILABLE:- HIDECS COURSE......
Tel: +44 (0)1235-811095 .... see http://www.feabhas.com for details.
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
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| User: "habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 11:12:29 AM |
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They probably meant 25kw
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| User: "habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 05:00:41 PM |
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Would it go even further if it was put on steel rails ?
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| User: "J. Todd Wasson" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 12:40:58 PM |
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Google "Fancy Carol car." According to the Guinness World Records web site:
"Team 'Fancy Carol' (Japan) achieved a fuel consumption of 0.025237 l/100 km
(11,193.135 mpg) around a 19.2 km (11.9 mile) course during the Super Mileage
Car Contest 2003 at the Hiroshima License Centre, Japan, on August 24, 2003."
These "cars" fit you like a glove. I had no idea anyone was getting mileage
numbers like that.
Todd Wasson
Racing Software
http://PerformanceSimulations.com
http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 02:13:15 PM |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.net> wrote:
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water
If you use air for the oxygen, you get oxides of nitrogen.
The hotter the burn, the more oxides of nitrogen.
Hydrogen burns hot.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove -spam-sux to reply.
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 09:42:37 PM |
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wrote in message news:<cfr10b$gkr$2@mail.specsol.com>...
In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.net> wrote:
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water
If you use air for the oxygen, you get oxides of nitrogen.
The hotter the burn, the more oxides of nitrogen.
Hydrogen burns hot.
Damn. How could I have noddingly bought in to that "only emission is
water" pipe dream so easily? You may as well claim that the only
emission of gasoline powered cars is water and CO2, because you can
write some balanced stoichiometry which shows these are the products
of burning a mixture of hydrocarbons in oxygen.
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| User: "Fred B. McGalliard" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 09:28:36 AM |
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"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote in message
...
Damn. How could I have noddingly bought in to that "only emission is
water" pipe dream so easily?
Actually I think it is mostly water, though some oxides of nitrogen may
occur. No carbon intermediaries. Of course I have not seen any real emission
curves for a hydrogen engine. Did I miss some real data?
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| User: "quasarstrider" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 01:20:08 PM |
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wrote in message news:<cfr10b$gkr$2@mail.specsol.com>...
In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.net> wrote:
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water
If you use air for the oxygen, you get oxides of nitrogen.
The hotter the burn, the more oxides of nitrogen.
Hydrogen burns hot.
What burn? The thing is using fuel-cells, not an internal combustion
engine:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1283850,00.html
"The car's fuel-cell technology has been supplied by the
Aberdeen-based firm siGEN, and its sea-mammal form, designed by a
racing car expert is constructed of carbon fibre and lightweight
aluminium. It has been assembled and road-tested in the Shetland
isles."
Anyway, I still think hydrogen is too low density for cars.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 01:33:12 PM |
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In sci.physics quasarstrider <quasarstrider@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
jimp@specsol-spam-sux.com wrote in message news:<cfr10b$gkr$2@mail.specsol.com>...
In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.net> wrote:
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water
If you use air for the oxygen, you get oxides of nitrogen.
The hotter the burn, the more oxides of nitrogen.
Hydrogen burns hot.
What burn? The thing is using fuel-cells, not an internal combustion
engine:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1283850,00.html
"The car's fuel-cell technology has been supplied by the
Aberdeen-based firm siGEN, and its sea-mammal form, designed by a
racing car expert is constructed of carbon fibre and lightweight
aluminium. It has been assembled and road-tested in the Shetland
isles."
Anyway, I still think hydrogen is too low density for cars.
I didn't see the fuel cell part.
You are correct; use a fuel cell and all you get out is water.
I should have said, run an internal combustion engine on any fuel with air
supplying the oxygen, you get oxides of nitrogen.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove -spam-sux to reply.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 11:15:46 AM |
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habshi wrote:
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water and which is said to be
capable of circling the globe using less power than your average lightbulb, heralds a new age of
clean, quiet motoring. In 15-20 years, hydrogen powered vehicles could be commonplace on the roads,
they say.
And soon angels will fly out of my arse, all powered by hydrogen.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
17 Aug 2004 05:39:00 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <robert_kolker@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<S45Uc.267504$%_6.197880@attbi_s01>...
habshi wrote:
Future of motoring is dolphin-shaped
Kirsty Scott
Monday August 16, 2004
The Guardian
The Shetland islands may not have much of road network, but they have become the test centre for a
car hailed as the future of motoring.
Its designers say the hydrogen-powered car, whose only emission is water and which is said to be
capable of circling the globe using less power than your average lightbulb, heralds a new age of
clean, quiet motoring. In 15-20 years, hydrogen powered vehicles could be commonplace on the roads,
they say.
And soon angels will fly out of my arse, all powered by hydrogen.
Methane, surely? ;-)
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| User: "harmony" |
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| Title: Re: Car that does 10,000 miles per gallon |
16 Aug 2004 06:26:34 PM |
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pls not NOW; i just bought oil stocks.
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