| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Gregory Toomey" |
| Date: |
05 Sep 2003 07:39:06 PM |
| Object: |
Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
gtoomey
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| User: "Trevor Wilson" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 08:09:14 PM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bjbab4$glsnl$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the
market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
**Points:
1) It would not be cheap. A small air con delivers around 1,500 watts of
cold air with less than 1,000 Watts of input power. A typical Peltier device
delivers less than 30 Watts of cold air, with more than 30 Watts of input
power. You'll need *a lot* of Peltier devices, *a lot* of heat sinks and *a
lot* of power.
2) Peltier device generate their heat around away from the cold bit. It
will require heroic methods to shift the heat away.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
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| User: "Gregory Toomey" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 08:27:40 PM |
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"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5933b9$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**Points:
1) It would not be cheap. A small air con delivers around 1,500 watts of
cold air with less than 1,000 Watts of input power. A typical Peltier
device
delivers less than 30 Watts of cold air, with more than 30 Watts of input
power. You'll need *a lot* of Peltier devices, *a lot* of heat sinks and
*a
lot* of power.
I've only seen these devices in the past year, though the effect was
discovered over a century ago. Maybe more research is needed, just like
superconductors/fuel cells/solar panels. Consumers would buy a 500 watt
device with a simple fan that sits in a window, provided it costs less to
manufacture than an evaporative air conditioner.
2) Peltier device generate their heat around away from the cold bit. It
will require heroic methods to shift the heat away.
Just mount it in a window with the hot end outside.
gtoomey
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| User: "Russ" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 12:23:14 AM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bjbd65$gotds$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5933b9$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**Points:
1) It would not be cheap. A small air con delivers around 1,500 watts of
cold air with less than 1,000 Watts of input power. A typical Peltier
device
delivers less than 30 Watts of cold air, with more than 30 Watts of
input
power. You'll need *a lot* of Peltier devices, *a lot* of heat sinks and
*a
lot* of power.
I've only seen these devices in the past year, though the effect was
discovered over a century ago. Maybe more research is needed, just like
superconductors/fuel cells/solar panels. Consumers would buy a 500 watt
device with a simple fan that sits in a window, provided it costs less to
manufacture than an evaporative air conditioner.
I think what you are missing is the reason behind using both heat pumps and
evaporative air conditions - they both exploit physical principles for
efficient cooling - that is, they remove more heat than they require to run.
Peltiers are inherently inefficient, and are thus a poor choice, except for
specific applications where their simplicity and size make them appropriate,
such as esky heater/coolers.
Russ.
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| User: "Rod Speed" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 09:03:41 PM |
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Gregory Toomey <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bjbd65$gotds$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote
Points:
1) It would not be cheap.
Not cheap to run, anyway.
A small air con delivers around 1,500 watts of
cold air with less than 1,000 Watts of input power.
A typical Peltier device delivers less than 30 Watts
of cold air, with more than 30 Watts of input power.
You'll need *a lot* of Peltier devices, *a lot* of heat
sinks and *a lot* of power.
Correct.
I've only seen these devices in the past year, though
the effect was discovered over a century ago.
They've been around for years now,
not uncommon with camping eskys etc.
Maybe more research is needed, just like
superconductors/fuel cells/solar panels.
'more research' wont help, the current ones do close
to whats theoretically possible and thats nothing like
the running cost you get with a true airconditioner.
Basic physics that no 'research' can change.
Consumers would buy a 500 watt device with a simple
fan that sits in a window, provided it costs less to
manufacture than an evaporative air conditioner.
What matters is the running cost, not the purchase price.
2) Peltier device generate their heat around away from the
cold bit. It will require heroic methods to shift the heat away.
Just mount it in a window with the hot end outside.
Pity about the electrical power required to provide useful cooling.
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| User: "Arpit" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 09:25:28 PM |
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2) Peltier device generate their heat around away from the
cold bit. It will require heroic methods to shift the heat away.
Just mount it in a window with the hot end outside.
Pity about the electrical power required to provide useful cooling.
Yep, Even a portable air conditioner beats them.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 08:48:06 PM |
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Gregory Toomey wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5933b9$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**Points:
1) It would not be cheap. A small air con delivers around 1,500 watts of
cold air with less than 1,000 Watts of input power. A typical Peltier
device
delivers less than 30 Watts of cold air, with more than 30 Watts of input
power. You'll need *a lot* of Peltier devices, *a lot* of heat sinks and
*a
lot* of power.
I've only seen these devices in the past year, though the effect was
discovered over a century ago. Maybe more research is needed, just like
superconductors/fuel cells/solar panels. Consumers would buy a 500 watt
device with a simple fan that sits in a window, provided it costs less to
manufacture than an evaporative air conditioner.
2) Peltier device generate their heat around away from the cold bit. It
will require heroic methods to shift the heat away.
Just mount it in a window with the hot end outside.
You do it. Watch the thing melt before your eyes. The cold plate and
hot plate of a Peltier cooler are separated by about 3 mm - and for
good reason. Do you know how a Peltier cooler works?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
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| User: "Gregory Toomey" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 09:10:41 PM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F593CD6.E428D893@hate.spam.net...
Gregory Toomey wrote:
You do it. Watch the thing melt before your eyes. The cold plate and
hot plate of a Peltier cooler are separated by about 3 mm - and for
good reason. Do you know how a Peltier cooler works?
Yes, but I'm no expert at thermodynamics. There are a number of small
Peltier refrigerators (mainly for vehicle use) so I thought an air
conditioner would be possible.
gtoomey
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| User: "Rod Speed" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 01:30:03 PM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:bjbfmr$h34vj$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F593CD6.E428D893@hate.spam.net...
Gregory Toomey wrote:
You do it. Watch the thing melt before your eyes. The cold plate and
hot plate of a Peltier cooler are separated by about 3 mm - and for
good reason. Do you know how a Peltier cooler works?
Yes, but I'm no expert at thermodynamics.
Or even basic physics either.
There are a number of small Peltier refrigerators (mainly for vehicle use)
Correct.
so I thought an air conditioner would be possible.
The difference is that with a small fridge, you only have to pump
out what leaks in thru the insulation. Doing a whole room is completely
different and you basically have to pump a lot more heat, and peltier is
hopeless for that. If you want cheap, evaporative is the way to go unless
its very humid. Otherwise there is no substitute for real airconditioning.
You should have noticed that while peltier is used for
fridges in vehicles, it aint used to cool the vehicle itself.
They use a real airconditioner for a reason.
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| User: "Gregory Toomey" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 09:17:12 PM |
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Dissipating the heat should be possible.
For comparision, modern CPUs put out >60 Watts. With a heatsink, the CPU
fan only consumes about 1 Watt. Some CPUs are even passively cooled.
gtoomey
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| User: "Douglas Eagleson" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 12:54:48 PM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<bjbab4$glsnl$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
gtoomey
My old car's airconditioner is broken and the fan on the dash
does not work all the time. I was supposed to mount a Peltier
decive to the cars metal roof and blow the fan's air across
the inside plate to my face.
Except the car is so old I am supposed to fix the nicer one
and get rid of it. So five years later the same situation
exists. I really just need to play with the device and see how
nice a cool air it would make.
A device mounted to the window would also work. just
make a gooy paste connection of the device to the glass
and have a large thin metal flange covering the hot spot
on the window.
So the cold inside device plate is ready to cool.
Cheap spot air conditioning.
Douglas Eagleson
Gaithersburg, MD USA
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| User: "DarkMatter" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 01:32:45 PM |
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On 7 Sep 2003 10:54:48 -0700, (Douglas
Eagleson) Gave us:
"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<bjbab4$glsnl$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
gtoomey
My old car's airconditioner is broken and the fan on the dash
does not work all the time. I was supposed to mount a Peltier
decive to the cars metal roof and blow the fan's air across
the inside plate to my face.
Except the car is so old I am supposed to fix the nicer one
and get rid of it. So five years later the same situation
exists. I really just need to play with the device and see how
nice a cool air it would make.
A device mounted to the window would also work. just
make a gooy paste connection of the device to the glass
and have a large thin metal flange covering the hot spot
on the window.
So the cold inside device plate is ready to cool.
Cheap spot air conditioning.
Me thinks yer an idiot. Blowing a breeze over a flat plate is about
as efficient as your "cheap" remark is true. Near nil. You need a
heat sink on the cold side to conduct heat out of the air which you
are passing over the fins. A flat plate is...well...retarded.
As far as it being "cheap" , it is not. It is a very INEFFICIENT
(you do understand that word, don't you) heat conversion device.
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| User: "MC" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 09:08:38 PM |
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Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
Some problems.
(1)
Peltiers are not very efficient heat transferers. They move
somewhere around 0.5 to 0.75 of whatever their supplied power is.
A typical gas-based reverse-cycle unit can move 2 to 4 times
the supplied power.
(2)
The cold-surface is rather close to the heating surface, which
makes it 'challenging' to keep the cool-air seperated from the
'hot air'.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 08:45:59 PM |
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Gregory Toomey wrote:
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
Peltier coolers have low efficiency and are unsuited to moving large
amounts of heat. They are good for quiet spot cooling and maintaining
the temp of a well-insulated volume. One ton of air conditioning
might barely do a nice home for 24 hours in the summer - the energy of
melting one ton of ice at 80 cal/gm or 80 million calories. One
cannot imagine a Peltier cooler that large - or its electric bill.
Peltier CPU coolers are not even suitable for (admittedly crappy)
Intel Pentium IV's and their 30-50 watt heat outputs. You would need
a 100-250 watt cooler. What cools the cooler's hot side?
A Ranque-Hilsch vortex tube won't do it either - too inefficient, too
noisy. A freon refrigerator is engineering and thermodynamic heaven
on Earth. Safe and cheap, too. That is why Luddite Enviro-whiners
hate it so. They violate the Enviro-whiner holy trinity: Expensive,
shoddy, deadly. ("Shoddy" was the first recycled wool back in
Industrial Revolution days. How good do you think it was?)
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
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| User: "Ian Stirling" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 07:41:14 PM |
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In sci.physics Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:
Gregory Toomey wrote:
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
Peltier coolers have low efficiency and are unsuited to moving large
amounts of heat. They are good for quiet spot cooling and maintaining
Anyone know what's happening with thermal diodes?
--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
If God hadn't intended us to eat animals,
He wouldn't have made them out of MEAT! - John Cleese
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| User: "Mark van der Eynden" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 08:01:41 PM |
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Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bjdura$j9g$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>...
In sci.physics Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:
Anyone know what's happening with thermal diodes?
Never heard of them. But, then again, if you read a description for a
Peltier device you will see it described as 'a series of PN
junctions'. So, just maybe, a thermal diode is a Peltier device by
another name.
Mark
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| User: "Ian Stirling" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
10 Sep 2003 11:41:21 AM |
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In sci.physics Mark van der Eynden <mvandere@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bjdura$j9g$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>...
In sci.physics Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:
Anyone know what's happening with thermal diodes?
Never heard of them. But, then again, if you read a description for a
Peltier device you will see it described as 'a series of PN
junctions'. So, just maybe, a thermal diode is a Peltier device by
another name.
Nope.
These are using nanostructured plates seperated by very small distances
to pump heat between them.
I believe http://www.eneco-usa.com/ is the company trying to develop them.
Claims of theoretical efficancy approaching 60% carno.
--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | mailto:inquisitor@i.am | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
All I want is a warm bed, a kind word and unlimited power -- Ashleigh Brilliant.
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| User: "Arpit" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
05 Sep 2003 08:11:57 PM |
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THink about it, an average 2 hp air conditioner pumps 1400 watts. say
your pelters pump 80 watts each, you need 18 to match that. At 20
dollars each thats only about 400 dollars. BUT each one will draw
about 7 amps at 12 volts. So your elelctricity charges will be very
large. YOu can power them by 9 good computer power supplies, if you
find a trash bin full of them, your ok, but otherwise expect to pay at
least 30 dollars new. Plus you'll need to give them a resistor to load
the 5 volt rail. THen theres the problem of getting rid of 1400 watts
YOud need a huge ugly black heatsink arrangement, which would be
expensive, or a more elegant solution would be to use lots of computer
amd or p4 cpu coolers. naturally these would be poking out your wall.
And would be really noisy and whiny. Youd need pretty much the same
thing on your side too, to cool the room. FInally comes switching.
PEltiers dont like to be switched at low frequencies so youll need to
build something to drive themm at a few kilohertz. Welll, rather, 9
things, each capable of 18 amps. SO the minimum price list
Peltiers: 360 dollars
Tools to cut holes in your wall: 300 dollars
CpU coolers: 540 dollars
Total: 1200 dollars
More realistic cost list
Pelters: 630 dollars
Power supplies: 450 dollars
Resistors: 5 dollars
Coolers: 1080 dollars
Driver circuitry: 270 dollars
Total: 2435 dollars
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:39:06 +1000, "Gregory Toomey"
<NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote:
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
gtoomey
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| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 02:01:39 AM |
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"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:25cilvg78djp5jalogvuaamd3q9qimmb1t@4ax.com...
THink about it, an average 2 hp air conditioner pumps 1400 watts. say
your pelters pump 80 watts each, you need 18 to match that. At 20
dollars each thats only about 400 dollars. BUT each one will draw
about 7 amps at 12 volts.
Just a couple of points....
a single 2k power supply would supply more than enough
current for 18 pelt's which at 120vac only needs 10 amps
which is less than most AC units of same cooling value..
Then use a dual water cooling and heating system with a
fairly small pump (2) add a couple of fans to move
air across radiators and you have a self contained
window unit that may cost a bit more up front ( not much)
and would be a bit less per month to run... but would
require no leakage coolants in the system.. just water
and antifreeze... and be smaller to...
I could design and build a prototype for maybe
2 grand or so but under production the cost
would be less than half ..maybe down to 500 bucks
for a 8kbtu unit...
So your elelctricity charges will be very
large. YOu can power them by 9 good computer power supplies, if you
find a trash bin full of them, your ok, but otherwise expect to pay at
least 30 dollars new. Plus you'll need to give them a resistor to load
the 5 volt rail. THen theres the problem of getting rid of 1400 watts
YOud need a huge ugly black heatsink arrangement, which would be
expensive, or a more elegant solution would be to use lots of computer
amd or p4 cpu coolers. naturally these would be poking out your wall.
And would be really noisy and whiny. Youd need pretty much the same
thing on your side too, to cool the room. FInally comes switching.
PEltiers dont like to be switched at low frequencies so youll need to
build something to drive themm at a few kilohertz. Welll, rather, 9
things, each capable of 18 amps. SO the minimum price list
Peltiers: 360 dollars
Tools to cut holes in your wall: 300 dollars
CpU coolers: 540 dollars
Total: 1200 dollars
More realistic cost list
Pelters: 630 dollars
Power supplies: 450 dollars
Resistors: 5 dollars
Coolers: 1080 dollars
Driver circuitry: 270 dollars
Total: 2435 dollars
On Sat, 6 Sep 2003 10:39:06 +1000, "Gregory Toomey"
<NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote:
Domestic fan heaters are cheap but air conditioners are a lot more
expensive.
There seem to be lots of cheap Peltier cooling devices coming to the
market.
I was wondering whether a fan could be combined with a Peltier device to
make a cheap air conditioner.
http://www.ferrotec-america.com/pel.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/homework/s95611.htm
gtoomey
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| User: "Gregory Toomey" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 05:24:16 AM |
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"Paul R. Mays" <simatar1@hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:AoednVDTnb3MG8SiRVn-jg@giganews.com...
"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:25cilvg78djp5jalogvuaamd3q9qimmb1t@4ax.com...
THink about it, an average 2 hp air conditioner pumps 1400 watts. say
your pelters pump 80 watts each, you need 18 to match that. At 20
dollars each thats only about 400 dollars. BUT each one will draw
about 7 amps at 12 volts.
Just a couple of points....
a single 2k power supply would supply more than enough
current for 18 pelt's which at 120vac only needs 10 amps
which is less than most AC units of same cooling value..
Then use a dual water cooling and heating system with a
fairly small pump (2) add a couple of fans to move
air across radiators and you have a self contained
window unit that may cost a bit more up front ( not much)
and would be a bit less per month to run... but would
require no leakage coolants in the system.. just water
and antifreeze... and be smaller to...
I could design and build a prototype for maybe
2 grand or so but under production the cost
would be less than half ..maybe down to 500 bucks
for a 8kbtu unit...
I was thinking along the same lines. There is probably a market for a
cheaper (and proably quieter) window unit. If you can just get away with
fans & heatsinks I think there would be a big market.
gtoomey
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| User: "Rod Speed" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 01:35:01 PM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:bjccka$gumf8$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Paul R. Mays" <simatar1@hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:AoednVDTnb3MG8SiRVn-jg@giganews.com...
"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:25cilvg78djp5jalogvuaamd3q9qimmb1t@4ax.com...
THink about it, an average 2 hp air conditioner pumps 1400 watts. say
your pelters pump 80 watts each, you need 18 to match that. At 20
dollars each thats only about 400 dollars. BUT each one will draw
about 7 amps at 12 volts.
Just a couple of points....
a single 2k power supply would supply more than enough
current for 18 pelt's which at 120vac only needs 10 amps
which is less than most AC units of same cooling value..
Then use a dual water cooling and heating system with a
fairly small pump (2) add a couple of fans to move
air across radiators and you have a self contained
window unit that may cost a bit more up front ( not much)
and would be a bit less per month to run... but would
require no leakage coolants in the system.. just water
and antifreeze... and be smaller to...
I could design and build a prototype for maybe
2 grand or so but under production the cost
would be less than half ..maybe down to 500 bucks
for a 8kbtu unit...
I was thinking along the same lines. There is probably a
market for a cheaper (and proably quieter) window unit.
Nope, because of atrocious running costs.
If you want quieter, you just use a split system.
If you can just get away with fans & heatsinks
I think there would be a big market.
You're wrong, because of the running cost.
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| User: "DarkMatter" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 03:19:17 PM |
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On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:35:01 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:
"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:bjccka$gumf8$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Paul R. Mays" <simatar1@hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:AoednVDTnb3MG8SiRVn-jg@giganews.com...
I was thinking along the same lines. There is probably a
market for a cheaper (and proably quieter) window unit.
Nope, because of atrocious running costs.
If you want quieter, you just use a split system.
If you can just get away with fans & heatsinks
I think there would be a big market.
You're wrong, because of the running cost.
It would be nice if the smart folk, like you would extend those
brains to being smart enough to trim the irrelevant parts of your
reply away. DUH!
You put down one idiot's remarks, replying to one sentence, yet your
stupid ***** STILL quoted the entire tripe post. You need to get more
clues than those you have chosen to embrace, boy.
.
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| User: "Trevor Wilson" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 06:04:21 PM |
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"DarkMatter" <DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:l5gklvclhmln0ga0uu68v66pc38gfag2pt@4ax.com...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2003 04:35:01 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
Gave us:
"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bjccka$gumf8$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Paul R. Mays" <simatar1@hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:AoednVDTnb3MG8SiRVn-jg@giganews.com...
I was thinking along the same lines. There is probably a
market for a cheaper (and proably quieter) window unit.
Nope, because of atrocious running costs.
If you want quieter, you just use a split system.
If you can just get away with fans & heatsinks
I think there would be a big market.
You're wrong, because of the running cost.
It would be nice if the smart folk, like you would extend those
brains to being smart enough to trim the irrelevant parts of your
reply away. DUH!
You put down one idiot's remarks, replying to one sentence, yet your
stupid ***** STILL quoted the entire tripe post. You need to get more
clues than those you have chosen to embrace, boy.
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very frustrating.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
.
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| User: "Gregory Toomey" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 08:19:07 PM |
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"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5a67f4$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
gtoomey
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| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 02:24:22 AM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bje120$hngk7$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5a67f4$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he
keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very
frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
gtoomey
A boys gota eat... hehehe
.
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| User: "Trevor Wilson" |
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| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
06 Sep 2003 10:26:07 PM |
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"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bje120$hngk7$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5a67f4$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he
keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very
frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
**A fool and his money......
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
.
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| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 03:08:57 AM |
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"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5aa54e@news.comindico.com.au...
"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bje120$hngk7$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5a67f4$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he
keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very
frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
**A fool and his money......
Now wait a sec... I didn't say I would build
the proto type using MY money... but if he wants
one could have it up and running in a couple weeks...
Paul....
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
.
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| User: "Trevor Wilson" |
|
| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 04:13:34 AM |
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"Paul R. Mays" <simatar1@hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:Duidncs15NMLeseiRVn-tQ@giganews.com...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5aa54e@news.comindico.com.au...
"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bje120$hngk7$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5a67f4$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons
why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he
keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very
frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
**A fool and his money......
Now wait a sec... I didn't say I would build
the proto type using MY money...
**Of course. I wasn't talking about your money.
but if he wants
one could have it up and running in a couple weeks...
**Sure. I'll take his money too. I've been mucking about with Peltiers for
the best part of 20 years. Nothing much has changed, either. They're neat,
but they'll never make an air conditioner obsolete.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
.
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| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 05:58:25 AM |
|
|
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5af6ba@news.comindico.com.au...
"Paul R. Mays" <simatar1@hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:Duidncs15NMLeseiRVn-tQ@giganews.com...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5aa54e@news.comindico.com.au...
"Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bje120$hngk7$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f5a67f4$1@news.comindico.com.au...
**I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons
why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet
he
keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very
frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
**A fool and his money......
Now wait a sec... I didn't say I would build
the proto type using MY money...
**Of course. I wasn't talking about your money.
but if he wants
one could have it up and running in a couple weeks...
**Sure. I'll take his money too. I've been mucking about with Peltiers for
the best part of 20 years. Nothing much has changed, either. They're neat,
but they'll never make an air conditioner obsolete.
Shut up about that part !!! I'm trying to
feed the kids.....
But seriously... It would work fine and all that but
what minor point the original poster missed is the
wattage aspect... He seems to think that an 80 watt
rated peltier is equivalent to say an 80 watt load
fluid/gaseous conversion system... and they are not...
Simply because of what someone pointed out...
Efficiency..... a load that uses 100 watts to heat
with a 50% efficiency will not produce the heat
output of a unit that uses 100 watts at 80%... He
seemed to just uses the wattage values as a rationale
for it being a viable option.. and I'm always
looking for funding for my real experiments in
building a dielectric stress quantum field modifier...
Paul
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
.
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| User: "Rod Speed" |
|
| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? |
07 Sep 2003 12:04:12 AM |
|
|
Gregory Toomey <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bje120$hngk7$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de...
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote
I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
Who also doesnt have a clue about the basic physics either.
Plenty make 'prototypes' of perpetual motion machines all the time.
.
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| User: "Another Wise Guy - Macon, GA USA" |
|
| Title: Re: Cheap Peltier air conditioner? -Just Another Internet Wise Guy - Macon, Georgia USA |
07 Sep 2003 03:03:26 AM |
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says...
Gregory Toomey <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote in message
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote
I don't think so. It has been explained to Mr Toomey the reasons why
Peltier devices are completely unsuited to air conditioning, yet he keeps
asking the same questions, in different ways. It can be very frustrating.
With somebody offering to make a prototype ...
Who also doesnt have a clue about the basic physics either.
Plenty make 'prototypes' of perpetual motion machines all the time.
Now now...
Nobody who knows the physics involved says that you can't make a
prototype peltier air conditioner. You could, for example, replace
some walls with banks of cpu peltiers, arrange for your local power
company to supply a gazillion ampere feed to run them, then buy
and tear down the houses on both sides to give a buffer big enough
so that the exterior/hot side doesn't burn the paint off, and then
go deaf from the sound of thousands and thousands of little fans...
Don't confuse the impossible with the stupid.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Just Another Internet Wise Guy Macon, GA USA |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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