| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Scottie" |
| Date: |
24 Mar 2005 05:19:00 AM |
| Object: |
complex mass travelling beyond c? |
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Scottie
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
24 Mar 2005 02:57:38 PM |
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In article <1111663140.408390.224960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Scottie <whatishiggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Scottie
Relativistic momentum is p=mv/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2). If v>c, then
p = -i m v / sqrt(v^2/c^2 - 1)
If m = i*|m|, them p=|m|v/sqrt(v^2/c^2-1) and the momentum remains
real.
I don't know what physical interpretation can be given to a complex mass.
--
"Is that plutonium on your gums?"
"Shut up and kiss me!"
-- Marge and Homer Simpson
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| User: "Helmut Wabnig " |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
25 Mar 2005 01:15:09 AM |
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:57:38 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article <1111663140.408390.224960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Scottie <whatishiggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Scottie
Relativistic momentum is p=mv/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2). If v>c, then
p = -i m v / sqrt(v^2/c^2 - 1)
If m = i*|m|, them p=|m|v/sqrt(v^2/c^2-1) and the momentum remains
real.
I don't know what physical interpretation can be given to a complex mass.
Hmm....
Whenever that number i (or j) appears in equations,
it tells us, something is oscillating.
We need another Carl Friedrich Gauss :-)
w.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
25 Mar 2005 03:44:29 AM |
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On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:15:09 +0100) it happened Helmut Wabnig <>
wrote in <g9e7419nbn36v4r8rb7r2at1ktkrejfo13@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:57:38 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article <1111663140.408390.224960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Scottie <whatishiggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Scottie
Relativistic momentum is p=mv/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2). If v>c, then
p = -i m v / sqrt(v^2/c^2 - 1)
If m = i*|m|, them p=|m|v/sqrt(v^2/c^2-1) and the momentum remains
real.
I don't know what physical interpretation can be given to a complex mass.
Hmm....
Whenever that number i (or j) appears in equations,
it tells us, something is oscillating.
Not exactly, if I write Z = jwl (impedance inductor), then nothing 'oscililates'.
It merely represents a phase shift (i(current) versus U(applied voltage).
You can write it as 2 vectors, 90 degrees apart in a plane.
Electronic types use 'j' so as not to confuse with 'i' for current.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
25 Mar 2005 09:12:19 AM |
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In article <1111743871.71757982ef7c4ea8cd300b5de7229d86@teranews>,
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:15:09 +0100) it happened Helmut Wabnig <>
wrote in <g9e7419nbn36v4r8rb7r2at1ktkrejfo13@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:57:38 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article <1111663140.408390.224960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Scottie <whatishiggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Scottie
Relativistic momentum is p=mv/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2). If v>c, then
p = -i m v / sqrt(v^2/c^2 - 1)
If m = i*|m|, them p=|m|v/sqrt(v^2/c^2-1) and the momentum remains
real.
I don't know what physical interpretation can be given to a complex mass.
Hmm....
Whenever that number i (or j) appears in equations,
it tells us, something is oscillating.
Not exactly, if I write Z = jwl (impedance inductor), then nothing
'oscililates'.
It merely represents a phase shift (i(current) versus U(applied voltage).
You can write it as 2 vectors, 90 degrees apart in a plane.
Electronic types use 'j' so as not to confuse with 'i' for current.
What's that w?
--
"Coincidences, in general, are great stumbling blocks in the way of that
class of thinkers who have been educated to know nothing of the theory of
probabilities." -- Edgar Allen Poe
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
25 Mar 2005 09:36:37 AM |
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On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:12:19 +0000 (UTC)) it happened
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote in
<d219oj$27k$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>:
In article <1111743871.71757982ef7c4ea8cd300b5de7229d86@teranews>,
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:15:09 +0100) it happened Helmut Wabnig <>
wrote in <g9e7419nbn36v4r8rb7r2at1ktkrejfo13@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:57:38 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
In article <1111663140.408390.224960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Scottie <whatishiggs@yahoo.com> wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Scottie
Relativistic momentum is p=mv/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2). If v>c, then
p = -i m v / sqrt(v^2/c^2 - 1)
If m = i*|m|, them p=|m|v/sqrt(v^2/c^2-1) and the momentum remains
real.
I don't know what physical interpretation can be given to a complex mass.
Hmm....
Whenever that number i (or j) appears in equations,
it tells us, something is oscillating.
Not exactly, if I write Z = jwl (impedance inductor), then nothing
'oscililates'.
It merely represents a phase shift (i(current) versus U(applied voltage).
You can write it as 2 vectors, 90 degrees apart in a plane.
Electronic types use 'j' so as not to confuse with 'i' for current.
What's that w?
hehe, omega, and now you will likely argue that 2 * pi * f is a frequency,
and 'frequency' implies some oscillation.
I realized after I posted that that it was sort of ehhh beginning of alzheimer
perhaps ? But then I realized that it still holds for f = 0 Hz.
Of cause the whole idea of using DC simplifies the relation as then i = t / L.
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
26 Mar 2005 06:46:20 AM |
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did it not occured to all above parrots
that the Lorentz factor has its limits ???
ie
it does not apply to the photon??!!
if you stick it to your parrots mind than anything becomes
amazingly simple
no need to invent relativistic shmetatlivistc complex shmomplex mass
Ghosh!
is there no limit to scientists stopidily ??!!!
all the best
Y.Porat
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
24 Mar 2005 08:21:18 AM |
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Scottie wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
The speed of light is a *defined* constant.
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SpeedofLight.html
It represent the upper speed limit for propagation of
o light
o gravity waves
o information
o velocity
o etc.
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| User: "Ben Rudiak-Gould" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
24 Mar 2005 06:35:58 AM |
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Scottie wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Whoever said that was slightly confused. What's true is this: the momentum
vector of a particle can be "timelike", "null", or "spacelike". These
correspond to v<c, v=c, and v>c, respectively. If the vector is timelike,
there's a formula for the mass which comes out to the square root of a
certain quantity which is related to the momentum vector. If the vector is
null, the quantity inside the square root is zero, which is why people say
that things travelling at v=c are massless. If the vector is spacelike, the
quantity inside the square root is negative. But that doesn't mean that you
should naively take the square root, getting an imaginary number. It makes
just as much sense to negate the value inside the square root, which gives
you an imaginary mass in the *timelike* case. Much more sensible than either
of these is to say that there are two kinds of mass, "timelike mass" and
"spacelike mass", and that tachyons would have the latter.
As far as properties go, in general, Lorentz symmetry means that statements
about time become statements about space when you're talking about tachyons,
and vice versa. For example, an unstable tachyon would have a characteristic
life-distance, instead of a characteristic life-time. The fact that you can
form a closed loop in space, but not in time, is one way of understanding
why tachyons cause trouble with causality.
-- Ben
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| User: "Schoenfeld" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
24 Mar 2005 04:14:24 PM |
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Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
Scottie wrote:
I heard it said that nothing can travel faster than light
except if it has complex mass. What is meant by complex
mass?? What are its properties??
Whoever said that was slightly confused. What's true is this: the
momentum
vector of a particle can be "timelike", "null", or "spacelike". These
correspond to v<c, v=c, and v>c, respectively. If the vector is
timelike,
there's a formula for the mass which comes out to the square root of
a
certain quantity which is related to the momentum vector. If the
vector is
null, the quantity inside the square root is zero, which is why
people say
that things travelling at v=c are massless. If the vector is
spacelike, the
quantity inside the square root is negative. But that doesn't mean
that you
should naively take the square root, getting an imaginary number. It
makes
just as much sense to negate the value inside the square root, which
gives
you an imaginary mass in the *timelike* case. Much more sensible than
either
of these is to say that there are two kinds of mass, "timelike mass"
and
"spacelike mass", and that tachyons would have the latter.
As far as properties go, in general, Lorentz symmetry means that
statements
about time become statements about space when you're talking about
tachyons,
and vice versa. For example, an unstable tachyon would have a
characteristic
life-distance, instead of a characteristic life-time. The fact that
you can
form a closed loop in space, but not in time, is one way of
understanding
why tachyons cause trouble with causality.
Tachyon relative timelines allow causal time-travel.
-- Ben
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: complex mass travelling beyond c? |
24 Mar 2005 04:49:51 PM |
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Schoenfeld wrote:
Tachyon relative timelines allow causal time-travel.
What are the governing equations?
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