| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Rushtown" |
| Date: |
25 Apr 2006 11:42:40 PM |
| Object: |
Consciousness created |
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
Without these the world is a mass of random electromagnetic
vibrations, and maybe not even that.
Consciousness not only creates colors, smells, tastes, and memories----
it creates everything. There is no universe without conscious beings.
People who doubt this are like people who believe in "uncorporeal
beings"
or "the undead dead."----they don't exist except in words
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| User: "foolsrushin" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 01:01:39 AM |
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Dear Rushtown,
A rather laborious definition of what it means to be 'dead'. Imagine
this: you are the Last Man (sorry, Person), and you are just getting to
grips with bits of a huge post-armageddon library, when you keel over.
What would be the status of the library? [He does not seek a biological
answer, but .... .]
--
'foolsrushin'
Rushtown wrote:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
Without these the world is a mass of random electromagnetic
vibrations, and maybe not even that.
Consciousness not only creates colors, smells, tastes, and memories----
it creates everything. There is no universe without conscious beings.
People who doubt this are like people who believe in "uncorporeal
beings"
or "the undead dead."----they don't exist except in words
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| User: "zookumar yelubandi" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 09:30:26 AM |
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'foolsrushin' wrote:
Dear Rushtown,
A rather laborious definition of what it means to be 'dead'. Imagine
this: you are the Last Man (sorry, Person), and you are just getting to
grips with bits of a huge post-armageddon library, when you keel over.
What would be the status of the library? [He does not seek a biological
answer, but .... .]
The library becomes a code waiting to be deciphered by the next
sapient form that discovers it. Which brings me to the question of
the September 11, 2001 code; specifically, who designed it? Rushtown,
how do you transcribe that ?
-zookumar-
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| User: "Gordon" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 08:33:38 AM |
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On 25 Apr 2006 21:42:40 -0700, "Rushtown" <Rushtown@aol.com>
wrote:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
Without these the world is a mass of random electromagnetic
vibrations, and maybe not even that.
Consciousness not only creates colors, smells, tastes, and memories----
it creates everything. There is no universe without conscious beings.
People who doubt this are like people who believe in "uncorporeal
beings"
or "the undead dead."----they don't exist except in words
The universe has existed since the big bang. Life on this planet
came into existence very recently. Life on other planets, if
indeed there is life anywhere else, also came into existence long
after the big bang.
The "consciousness" that you stipulate as being necessary for the
universe to exist is the same consciousness that is recognized as
God.
Gordon
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| User: "Jan Pantelje" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 07:17:36 AM |
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On a sunny day (25 Apr 2006 21:42:40 -0700) it happened "Rushtown"
<Rushtown@aol.com> wrote in
<1146026560.216634.90200@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
You mean TO YOU (in YIOUR experience), BUT even that is wrong,,
think hologram (= 2 dimensional pattern holding 3D info)..
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Non-sense? ;-)
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
So, if YOU died, the whole universe would vanish?
Think again (or for the first time even).
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| User: "foolsrushin" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 01:38:40 PM |
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Jan Pantelje wrote:
On a sunny day (25 Apr 2006 21:42:40 -0700) it happened "Rushtown"
<Rushtown@aol.com> wrote in
<1146026560.216634.90200@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
<snip>
So, if YOU died, the whole universe would vanish?
Think again (or for the first time even).
Louis MacNeice wrote of a dagger such that:
'I have but to stick it in my heart:
The starry heavens will fly;
The earth's foundations will depart.
And you, dear folk, will die!
I also like Zook's sort of Rosetta Stone answer:
Captain Quirk: What do you make of it?
Spock: It's a library, Captain.
Quirk: Is it open? Is there a launderette?
In what sense might a notice-board be said to be conscious?
--
'foolsrushin'.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 02:10:25 PM |
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On a sunny day (26 Apr 2006 11:38:40 -0700) it happened "'foolsrushin'"
<dolomite8@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1146076720.562986.290110@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
'I have but to stick it in my heart:
The starry heavens will fly;
The earth's foundations will depart.
And you, dear folk, will die!
I also like Zook's sort of Rosetta Stone answer:
Captain Quirk: What do you make of it?
Spock: It's a library, Captain.
Quirk: Is it open? Is there a launderette?
In what sense might a notice-board be said to be conscious?
Do not see the point you try to make.
I will give the old example again I gave in sci.physics many times.
Suppose you have a light sensor and a sunshade that can move,
and both are connected.
Now the system is so that when the sun comes, the shade closes.
Like your eyelids (maybe even now..).
This system, in its own way, is already conscious (of light).
Add some measuring circuit that measures the frequency of the
variations.
That circuit is now 'conscious' of day and night cycles, winter summer,
and with that earth movement around the sun etc...
Keep adding layers.
Now switch of the power to that circuit.
Days and nights will happen still.
You, are that circuit.
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| User: "foolsrushin" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 05:37:33 PM |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (26 Apr 2006 11:38:40 -0700) it happened "'foolsrushin'"
<dolomite8@hotmail.com> wrote in
<1146076720.562986.290110@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
'I have but to stick it in my heart:
The starry heavens will fly;
The earth's foundations will depart.
And you, dear folk, will die!
I also like Zook's sort of Rosetta Stone answer:
Captain Quirk: What do you make of it?
Spock: It's a library, Captain.
Quirk: Is it open? Is there a launderette?
In what sense might a notice-board be said to be conscious?
Do not see the point you try to make.
I will give the old example again I gave in sci.physics many times.
Suppose you have a light sensor and a sunshade that can move,
and both are connected.
Now the system is so that when the sun comes, the shade closes.
Like your eyelids (maybe even now..).
This system, in its own way, is already conscious (of light).
Add some measuring circuit that measures the frequency of the
variations.
That circuit is now 'conscious' of day and night cycles, winter summer,
and with that earth movement around the sun etc...
Keep adding layers.
Now switch of the power to that circuit.
Days and nights will happen still.
You, are that circuit.
Indeed! Perhaps I am a bit oblique, Jan, but, I hope, not opaque! I
think we may well be on the same page.
Churchill impressed Popper with a similar argument, though it concerned
a device that continued to record in the absence.
The sooner we drop Occham's razor, the better.
--
'foolsrushin'.
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| User: "platopes" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 01:26:39 AM |
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Rushtown wrote:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
Don't get the patch then; Nascar race in Phoenix this weekend! You
don't want to f**k that up for everyone, do you?
p
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 12:00:29 AM |
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Rushtown wrote:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
Without these the world is a mass of random electromagnetic
vibrations, and maybe not even that.
Consciousness not only creates colors, smells, tastes, and memories----
it creates everything. There is no universe without conscious beings.
People who doubt this are like people who believe in "uncorporeal
beings"
or "the undead dead."----they don't exist except in words
Tell that to the primitive life forms on the Earth 3.75 billion
years ago.
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| User: "Rushtown" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
27 Apr 2006 05:56:39 PM |
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I understand the objection that there must have been "an unconscious
past" that evolved into conscious beings.
However the idea that "consciousness creates reality" depends on
"Quantum Weirdness", ie experiments such as the double slit experiment
and Aspect's "delayed choice" experiment.
These experiments show that a delayed choice can change whether a
photon passed through a certain slit or not.
In fact, the experimenter can change the past and change whether a
certain photon has been traveling through space for the last billion
years or not.
In a universe with no consciousness there is no established
past---there is no collapse of the wave function. So there is nothing
but unrealized probabilities, ie no universe.
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| User: "Rushtown" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 12:18:50 AM |
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See Science magazine this week. Hawkings says we create the past by
our present conscious choices. We create the most probable past for
our present consciousness.
Which is a refreshing thought for me---that you didn't really exist ten
minutes ago when you ostensibly posted the above post---but were only
create 30 seconds ago when I read it.
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| User: "Fredrik Bulow" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
27 Apr 2006 01:11:30 AM |
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"Rushtown" <Rushtown@aol.com> writes:
See Science magazine this week. Hawkings says we create the past by
our present conscious choices. We create the most probable past for
our present consciousness.
Which is a refreshing thought for me---that you didn't really exist ten
minutes ago when you ostensibly posted the above post---but were only
create 30 seconds ago when I read it.
Then again you might have experienced the that previous article (that
you refer to without quoting) in some secondary way before reading it
but you were to dumb to understand it. Indeed, does an article
exist (where exists is defined the way you use it) after being "read"
by an illiterate person?
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| User: "paddy" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 05:31:36 PM |
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Rushtown wrote:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
Without these the world is a mass of random electromagnetic
vibrations, and maybe not even that.
Consciousness not only creates colors, smells, tastes, and memories----
it creates everything. There is no universe without conscious beings.
People who doubt this are like people who believe in "uncorporeal
beings"
or "the undead dead."----they don't exist except in words
It still exist but not to you.
What you are saying is that you wouldn't be able to appreciate it.
That's all.
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| User: "Stephen Dedalus" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 01:15:00 PM |
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Rushtown wrote:
If instead of eyes I only had a light sensitive patch, the the world
would not be a three dimensional world of objects and space and
distance.
One might argue that it still would be because of my sense of touch.
OK, take that away too.
Color, depth, distance, solidness, temperture are only there because
I have the senses to consciously experience them. Take the senses away
and take memory away.
Without these the world is a mass of random electromagnetic
vibrations, and maybe not even that.
Consciousness not only creates colors, smells, tastes, and memories----
it creates everything. There is no universe without conscious beings.
People who doubt this are like people who believe in "uncorporeal
beings"
or "the undead dead."----they don't exist except in words
The Universe doesn't care about you. It doesn't care about anyone, or
anything.
It is external. It doesn't exist in your egotistical head. In your head
there is a representation of reality. A model. Look at an optical
illusion. It's a model that already isn't 100% percent accurate. If you
went partially blind etc.. as you allude to, it'd just get a whole lot
worse.
This wouldn't change anything.
The Universe existed long before any other intelligent life could have
existed, and it will continue forever, long after all life everywhere
has died out (expansion + unstoppable rise in entropy makes this a
certainty).
The fraction of the Universe's existence when it was inhabited by life
will therefore asymptotically tend to zero.
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
26 Apr 2006 03:51:15 PM |
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Sophomore solipsism...
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
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| User: "Geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
30 Apr 2006 10:53:07 PM |
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A worm can feel, but does it have any form of consciousness?
My roboraptor (computerized dinosaur toy) can run about, see and hear and
responds to sounds, objects, touch etc. It appears to be an intelligent
being, yet it is really a machine with no consciousness whatsoever.
And a budgie can never understand that the bird in his mirror is himself.
(Only the apes appear able to do this). Yet the budgie obviously has some
form of consciousness, and as birds go, he is rather intelligent, even
though he is not self-aware.
Geopelia
(xtra, my ISP, is closing down all the newsgroups here in New Zealand, so
I'll have to move to Google).
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| User: "Prai Jei" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
01 May 2006 02:13:37 PM |
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Geopelia (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<lCf5g.6843$0Y5.7414@news.xtra.co.nz>:
(xtra, my ISP, is closing down all the newsgroups here in New Zealand, so
I'll have to move to Google).
I had that with Dontwannadooanymore here in the UK, just change your news
server setting to nntp.aioe.org and you should be up and running again just
as before.
--
Warning: keel away from child for hot bulb
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
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| User: "Geopelia" |
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| Title: Re: Consciousness created |
01 May 2006 05:14:07 PM |
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"Prai Jei" <pvstownsend@zyx-abc.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e35lsr$hld$1@emma.aioe.org...
Geopelia (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<lCf5g.6843$0Y5.7414@news.xtra.co.nz>:
(xtra, my ISP, is closing down all the newsgroups here in New Zealand, so
I'll have to move to Google).
I had that with Dontwannadooanymore here in the UK, just change your news
server setting to nntp.aioe.org and you should be up and running again
just
as before.
--
Several people on nz.general and nz.test recommend that server too.
I don't know much about computers, but I'll try it.
Thank you.
Geopelia
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