| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Gunnar Kaestle" |
| Date: |
09 Sep 2006 04:51:24 AM |
| Object: |
Conservation of Value |
Steven Harris wrote in 1999-07-29:
There is no such thing as the "actual value" of anything. Trade
depends on two people swapping things which each of them value
more than the thing given. There is no conservation of value, for
both gain. There is no True value, for the values of each trader
differ, and there is no reference to say which is truely right.
I agree in saying that there is no absolute value. Often price and value
are mixed up. Trade is indeed the clearing of different value ratings.
A trader lives on his information about the different value potentials of
the goods he deals with.
I like the analogies of ecodynamics (dynamics of economy) to statistical
thermodynamics, instead of mechanical equilibrium approaches.
http://www.amazon.com/Entropy-Law-Economic-Process/dp/1583486003/
A. The sum of all economic values E in a closed system is constant. (Money
is a form of value, too.)
B. In a closed economic system the change in entropy dS is always greater
or less zero.
Best,
Gunnar
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| User: "Gunnar Kaestle" |
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| Title: Re: Conservation of Value |
10 Sep 2006 04:59:04 AM |
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Gunnar Kaestle <gunnar.kaestle@gmx.net> wrote:
I like the analogies of ecodynamics (dynamics of economy) to statistical
thermodynamics, instead of mechanical equilibrium approaches.
http://www.amazon.com/Entropy-Law-Economic-Process/dp/1583486003/
A. The sum of all economic values E in a closed system is constant. (Money
is a form of value, too.)
B. In a closed economic system the change in entropy dS is always greater
or less zero.
of course, it is:
or equal zero (dS>=0).
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| User: "Gunnar Kaestle" |
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| Title: Re: Conservation of Value |
12 Sep 2006 11:52:29 AM |
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I've found another quote on the topic,
again by Steve Harris (2001-07-18)
You can even create wealth out of nothing without doing any work.
If I trade some of my bacon for some of your eggs, each of us
is better off, and all we've done is make a make a trade.
Listen up, you good-for-nothing zero-sum-thinking Commies: trade
creates wealth out of NOTHING. The surplus value comes not from
the backs of labor, it comes out of NOWHERE. Got it? There is no
such thing as "conservation of value."
If there is a breakfast room A full of eggs
and a second breakfast room B full of bacon,
the surplus value
(coming out of nowhere when the door between
room A and B is opened and trade allowed,
thus each hotel guest gets his bacon 'n eggs)
is swapped for increasing entropy.
Best
Gunnar
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Conservation of Value |
12 Sep 2006 12:07:34 PM |
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Gunnar Kaestle wrote:
[snip]
A. The sum of all economic values E in a closed system is constant. (Money
is a form of value, too.)
You obviously failed Econ 101 and are bitter about it.
One of the more standard examples of economic activity is two countries
trading with eachother and both having a positive balance of trade.
It's
why people trade with eachother.
You should really try something like _Economics for Dummies_ or
some such text. Get somebody to help you with the big words.
B. In a closed economic system the change in entropy dS is always greater
or less zero.
I'd be quite surprised if you could define entropy in any context,
never mind in an economic one.
Socks
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| User: "Gunnar Kaestle" |
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| Title: Re: Conservation of Value |
12 Sep 2006 04:47:00 PM |
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wrote:
A. The sum of all economic values E in a closed system is constant.
(Money is a form of value, too.)
You obviously failed Econ 101 and are bitter about it.
I don't exactly know what Econ 101 means. Is it North America's
standarised course in microeconmics? I had once VWL (Mikro) and I'm
still ok with it, no bitterness at all.
One of the more standard examples of economic activity is two countries
trading with eachother and both having a positive balance of trade.
It's why people trade with eachother.
Trade is the diffusion of commodities from the center of production, often
coupled with a gradient in the spatial value potential (see the example of
bacon and egg here in the thread).
You should really try something like _Economics for Dummies_ or
some such text. Get somebody to help you with the big words.
I've some problems with the words 'both having a positive balance of
trade'. Can you explain how that works? And does that work too with me
and my bank when we trade cash and credit?
I'd be quite surprised if you could define entropy in any context,
never mind in an economic one.
I guess so.
Best,
Gunnar
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Conservation of Value |
12 Sep 2006 05:16:16 PM |
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Gunnar Kaestle wrote:
puppet_sock@hotmail.com wrote:
A. The sum of all economic values E in a closed system is constant.
(Money is a form of value, too.)
You obviously failed Econ 101 and are bitter about it.
I don't exactly know what Econ 101 means. Is it North America's
standarised course in microeconmics? I had once VWL (Mikro) and I'm
still ok with it, no bitterness at all.
Not surprising you don't exactly know what it means. You don't
exactly know what much means. Econ is short for economics,
a common course name for a class in economics. The 101 means
the first such class at the most basic level.
One of the more standard examples of economic activity is two countries
trading with eachother and both having a positive balance of trade.
It's why people trade with eachother.
Trade is the diffusion of commodities from the center of production, often
coupled with a gradient in the spatial value potential (see the example of
bacon and egg here in the thread).
Trade is not diffusive. Trade is transactive. This trader and that
trader actively pass their trade goods between them. It is not
diffusive, as it is not guided by random processes.
Seriously, you seem to need quite a bit of remedial education.
Perhaps you might want to start with something round about
the level of highschool in N. America. Say, what a 15yo gets
taught.
You should really try something like _Economics for Dummies_ or
some such text. Get somebody to help you with the big words.
I've some problems with the words 'both having a positive balance of
trade'. Can you explain how that works? And does that work too with me
and my bank when we trade cash and credit?
Seriously, you do have some problems with those words.
Consider two countries, Ferronia and Loamonia.
Ferronia has lots of iron ore, and so the folks there have learned
to make hammers. But their soil is poor, refer to the plentiful iron
ore. So watermelons are rare in Ferronia.
Loamonia has lots of fertile top soil. So watermelons are easy to
obtain in Loamonia. But iron ore is rare, and so hammers are
difficult to come by.
Now, they both happen to use the bit as the unit of currency, and
can walk across the border to the other country and freely spend
their bits. Happens their coins are made of some material that is
equally valuable in either country.
In Ferronia, a hammer costs 1 bit, and a watermelon 5 bits.
In Loamonia, a watermelon costs 1 bit, and a hammer 5 bits.
The rest is left as an exercise in toting hammers and watermelons.
I'd be quite surprised if you could define entropy in any context,
never mind in an economic one.
I guess so.
Try. Try hard. Entropy is usually defined by second year in a
university
science or engineering degree. That should only be about six years
away for you.
Socks
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| User: "Gunnar Kaestle" |
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| Title: Re: Conservation of Value |
12 Sep 2006 06:33:09 PM |
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wrote:
Econ is short for economics, a common course name for a class in
economics. The 101 means the first such class at the most basic level.
On this side of the Rhine, basic cources in economics are usally named
VWL I, VWL II, Rewe, BWL I, BWL II, etc. But each university and even each
professor may follow slightly different curricula.
Trade is not diffusive. Trade is transactive. This trader and that
trader actively pass their trade goods between them.
Trade is the clearing between supply and demand, which are regions of
different value potentials. An exchange of goods induces the exchange
of a virtual value particle, money.
It is not diffusive, as it is not guided by random processes.
How often do you go shopping with you wife?-)
Seriously, you seem to need quite a bit of remedial education.
I'm not resitant to special instructions. Please go ahead.
| 'both having a positive balance of trade'?
Consider two countries, Ferronia and Loamonia.
[Ferronia = hammerland, Loamonia = melon country]
In Ferronia, a hammer costs 1 bit, and a watermelon 5 bits.
In Loamonia, a watermelon costs 1 bit, and a hammer 5 bits.
The rest is left as an exercise in toting hammers and watermelons.
The Ferengi brothers Fuark & Lom settle on the planet, Fuark lives in
Ferronia and imports watermelons @ 1 bit, Lom lives in Loamonia and imports
hammers @ 1 bit. They share a solar driven glider, so no transaction cost
occur. Both make a fortune when selling the stuff in their chosen home
country, but I still can't see the bit's bias in the balance of trade.
Ferronia exports 1000 hammers @ 1 bit, Loamonia exports 1000 melons @ 1 bit,
so both balances of trade are even. If one of the two exports less,
then there is a negative and a positive one.
I'd be quite surprised if you could define entropy in any context,
never mind in an economic one.
I guess so.
Try. Try hard. Entropy is usually defined by second year in a
university science or engineering degree.
http://bildung-rp.de/lehrplaene/alleplaene/physik-gym-oberstufe.pdf
No. It's discussed in the Oberstufe (last two years of high-school)
of both basic and intensive course of physics.
If you say that volume is the bucket for potential energy where to store
the potential rho*h*g, then in the case of thermal energy entropy is the
bucket where to fill the temperature in.
Best,
Gunnar
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