| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
02 Dec 2006 08:21:56 AM |
| Object: |
Continuity of spacetime |
Hello.
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
If length is probabilistic, then continuity is also probablistic.
I cannot find any paper like that on PROLA or AMS abstract. Someone
know something about this one ?
Thank you
Huang
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
02 Dec 2006 06:00:22 PM |
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a =E9crit :
Hello.
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
If length is probabilistic, then continuity is also probablistic.
It seems to me that the real "according to some guy" is that length is
hypothezised as being "relativistic", not probabilistic, and it is
a premise of Special Relativity.
To my knowledge, continuity is not dependant on length.
I cannot find any paper like that on PROLA or AMS abstract. Someone
know something about this one ?
Look up Lorentz - Einstein.
=20
Andr=E9 Michaud
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
02 Dec 2006 11:39:20 PM |
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wrote:
huangxienchen@yahoo.com a =E9crit :
Hello.
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
If length is probabilistic, then continuity is also probablistic.
It seems to me that the real "according to some guy" is that length is
hypothezised as being "relativistic", not probabilistic, and it is
a premise of Special Relativity.
To my knowledge, continuity is not dependant on length.
I cannot find any paper like that on PROLA or AMS abstract. Someone
know something about this one ?
Look up Lorentz - Einstein.
Andr=E9 Michaud
I dont think that Lorentz or Einstein, or even Feynman did anything
like this.
Take for example Heine definition of continuity.
A real function f is continuous if for any sequence (xn) such that
lim x_n =3D x_o, as n->inf
it holds that
lim f(x_n) =3D f(x_o), as n->inf
(We assume that all points xn, x0 belong to the domain of f.)
If length is taken to be probabilistic, then for all x_n there is a
real valued probability that x_n exists, or not. We simply assign a
real value to each of the x_n and call it a probability.
Heine's definition is changed, but still valid as long as the
probability is everywhere nonzero.
If some of the x_n have probability 0, then f(x_n) is simply undefined
for those x_n.
But this is continuity of a function, I think we need probabilistic
compactness.
Huang
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 09:49:39 AM |
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a =E9crit :
srp@microtec.net wrote:
a =E9crit :
Hello.
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
If length is probabilistic, then continuity is also probablistic.
It seems to me that the real "according to some guy" is that length is
hypothezised as being "relativistic", not probabilistic, and it is
a premise of Special Relativity.
To my knowledge, continuity is not dependant on length.
I cannot find any paper like that on PROLA or AMS abstract. Someone
know something about this one ?
Look up Lorentz - Einstein.
Andr=E9 Michaud
I dont think that Lorentz or Einstein, or even Feynman did anything
like this.
You'd be well served with Feynman for discontinuity though. But
I don't recall having read about him having hypothesized that length
could be probabilistic.
Take for example Heine definition of continuity.
A real function f is continuous if for any sequence (xn) such that
lim x_n =3D x_o, as n->inf
it holds that
lim f(x_n) =3D f(x_o), as n->inf
(We assume that all points xn, x0 belong to the domain of f.)
If length is taken to be probabilistic, then for all x_n there is a
real valued probability that x_n exists, or not.
Ok, then you seem to be talking about the "length" of the actual
possibly disconnected continuous segments of the curve possibly
drawn by a function in this context.
We simply assign a real value to each of the x_n and call it a
probability. Heine's definition is changed, but still valid as long as
the probability is everywhere nonzero.
Then you get a continuous probability curve of course, but in real
life, such a curve can only be a mathematical tool that needs to
represent something physicaly possible to be of some use, and
as far as I can see, such a curve (for example the relativistic
velocities curve with respect to energy of motion) always refers
to the complete set of possibilities with only one actually
becoming true at any specific moment when a specific physical
case is considered.
It seems to me that "length" is normally defined in reference to
occurrences in physical reality and not to that of probability
curves, which by definition, can only be a help in visualizing some
range or other of discrete physical possibilities.
If some of the x_n have probability 0, then f(x_n) is simply undefined
for those x_n.
But this is continuity of a function, I think we need probabilistic
compactness.
Huang
Strangely, this reminds me of the Allegory of the Cave by Plato.
I see the probability curves as the shadows on the cave wall.
If you turn around and look towards the fire behind you casting the
shadows, you will see the real objects lying between you and the
fire casting those shadows.
The answers to your interrogations should stem from such a
perspective.
Andr=E9 Michaud
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 01:30:41 AM |
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In article <1165124360.516503.257730@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, writes:
srp@microtec.net wrote:
a =E9crit :
Hello.
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
If length is probabilistic, then continuity is also probablistic.
It seems to me that the real "according to some guy" is that length is
hypothezised as being "relativistic", not probabilistic, and it is
a premise of Special Relativity.
To my knowledge, continuity is not dependant on length.
I cannot find any paper like that on PROLA or AMS abstract. Someone
know something about this one ?
Look up Lorentz - Einstein.
Andr=E9 Michaud
I dont think that Lorentz or Einstein, or even Feynman did anything
like this.
Take for example Heine definition of continuity.
A real function f is continuous if for any sequence (xn) such that
lim x_n =3D x_o, as n->inf
it holds that
lim f(x_n) =3D f(x_o), as n->inf
(We assume that all points xn, x0 belong to the domain of f.)
If length is taken to be probabilistic, then for all x_n there is a
real valued probability that x_n exists, or not. We simply assign a
real value to each of the x_n and call it a probability.
Heine's definition is changed, but still valid as long as the
probability is everywhere nonzero.
If some of the x_n have probability 0, then f(x_n) is simply undefined
for those x_n.
But this is continuity of a function, I think we need probabilistic
compactness.
You're confusing mathematical theory and physical reality, I'm afraid.
In mathematical theory length (and whatever other concept is being
used) is whatever it is *by its definition". There is no "I wonder
what if "really' is", there is no other "really" there than the axioms
and the consequences deduced from them. Whether a particular
mathematical theory forms a faithful model of observable physical
reality that's a different issue but if and when it doesn't, it is not
a flaw of the theory, simply a different model is needed.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "hagman" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 10:06:44 AM |
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schrieb:
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
Maybe you can get more specific as to where you read that?
-hagman
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 01:22:39 PM |
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hagman wrote:
huangxienchen@yahoo.com schrieb:
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
Maybe you can get more specific as to where you read that?
-hagman
Point-set topological definition of a closed set is a set which
contains all of its limit points.
But if every x_n in the set has a realvalued probability associated to
represent probability of existence, then openness and closure of a set
is probabilistic and depend on the associated probabilities. A set is
then probably open of probably closed, probably continuous or discrete,
with realvalued probabilities for all of these things.
Not sure if this Hilbert Space anymore.
I try to read ancient text, by characterset so old I have trouble with
the caligraphy. I contact my old master teacher for some help to read
this one.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 02:40:59 PM |
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I try to read ancient text, by characterset so old I have trouble with
the caligraphy. I contact my old master teacher for some help to read
this one.
OK, I think I translate one example from ancient text.
It say, consider unit length [ 0, 1 ], and to each point on [ 0, 1 ] we
assign probability .9 that the point exists. Then, length is
probabilistic and most likely distance = .9. Reely wierd.
[ 0, 1 ] is both continuous and discrete.
I not making this stuff up !
Huang
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| User: "Christophe de Dinechin" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 08:32:35 AM |
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wrote:
Hello.
I read somewhere that physical length is probabilistic, according to
some guy theory out there.
If length is probabilistic, then continuity is also probablistic.
I don't know about the theory you refer to, but the topic of continuity
is discussed in http://cc3d.free.fr/tim.pdf.
Christophe
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 09:20:54 AM |
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This guy website not completely explain everything.
Sounds like he trying to make some kind of modified Hilbert space where
you have Euclidean metric, but the metric is subject to probability of
existence of points in the domain.
For example, the distance between any two points A and B in regular
Hilbert space is |A-B|. But if domain is probabilistic, then so is your
metric. You have a certain probability that the distance is |A-B|,
which correspond to a bending of a space.
There is very old wood carving in my country, I think from Chin
dynasty, show something like that but nobody can understand.
Huang
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| User: "Ben Newsam" |
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| Title: Re: Continuity of spacetime |
03 Dec 2006 11:59:24 AM |
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On 3 Dec 2006 07:20:54 -0800, wrote:
There is very old wood carving in my country, I think from Chin
dynasty, show something like that but nobody can understand.
We need to see a picture of that!
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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