| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
09 Sep 2006 11:15:58 PM |
| Object: |
CRT stream |
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
.
|
|
| User: "Sam Wormley" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 07:00:16 AM |
|
|
wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Radiation
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Radiation.html
Examples of particle radiation are alpha and beta radiation in
radioactivity, and cosmic rays.
Also solar wind, particle beams, etc. Beta radiation most often
refers to beta emission due to radioactivity.
.
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| User: "PD" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
11 Sep 2006 08:13:04 AM |
|
|
wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
.
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|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
13 Sep 2006 12:31:16 AM |
|
|
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
-----------------------
since beta radiation is mensioned
it might be important to mensin that even by the ordinary electric arch
that is done by a simple electric welding you get beta radiation
typically to physicist not to know it
because non of them ever holded an electric welder in theit hands !!
(:-)
now it is worth to discuss
why is it so
it seems that the electric welder is causing a buch more fundamental
effect that is usualy accepted
i my opinion it goes a bit deeeper than jsut the 'electron shells '
somethng closer to the nuc
in my model there are 'mediating orbitals'
ie not just eelctrons here and protons in the nuc but **ANOTHER
UNKNOWN MEDIATING ENTITY**
that i callsed the medium orbitals
ie mor emassive than the eelcrons !!!
so please dont forget from whom you heared about it first !!!
ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------
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| User: "RP" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
13 Sep 2006 12:51:07 AM |
|
|
Y.Porat wrote:
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
-----------------------
since beta radiation is mensioned
it might be important to mensin that even by the ordinary electric arch
that is done by a simple electric welding you get beta radiation
typically to physicist not to know it
because non of them ever holded an electric welder in theit hands !!
(:-)
now it is worth to discuss
why is it so
it seems that the electric welder is causing a buch more fundamental
effect that is usualy accepted
i my opinion it goes a bit deeeper than jsut the 'electron shells '
somethng closer to the nuc
in my model there are 'mediating orbitals'
ie not just eelctrons here and protons in the nuc but **ANOTHER
UNKNOWN MEDIATING ENTITY**
that i callsed the medium orbitals
ie mor emassive than the eelcrons !!!
so please dont forget from whom you heared about it first !!!
ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------
I think they call those "neutrons".
Richard Perry
.
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|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
13 Sep 2006 07:03:47 AM |
|
|
RP wrote:
Y.Porat wrote:
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
-----------------------
since beta radiation is mensioned
it might be important to mensin that even by the ordinary electric arch
that is done by a simple electric welding you get beta radiation
typically to physicist not to know it
because non of them ever holded an electric welder in theit hands !!
(:-)
now it is worth to discuss
why is it so
it seems that the electric welder is causing a buch more fundamental
effect that is usualy accepted
i my opinion it goes a bit deeeper than jsut the 'electron shells '
somethng closer to the nuc
in my model there are 'mediating orbitals'
ie not just eelctrons here and protons in the nuc but **ANOTHER
UNKNOWN MEDIATING ENTITY**
that i callsed the medium orbitals
ie mor emassive than the eelcrons !!!
so please dont forget from whom you heared about it first !!!
ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------
I think they call those "neutrons".
Richard Perry
------------------------
no Sir
it is one of the(still uknown ) components of the Neutron
3 quarks are only 10 percent of the neutron mass do you know that
Btw had you called those uknowns - quarks- it would amke much more
sense to me
my model detected .........(surprize!!) 3 of those mysterious
components
as the 'medium orbitals ' !!!
ie they come in bundels of 3 !!!!! and are only at the active edge
of the much bigger body of the neutron (or proton)!!
TIA
Y.Porat
-----------------------
.
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|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
11 Sep 2006 05:25:49 PM |
|
|
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
If there is sufficient lead embedded in the glass in a CRT, why isn't
the front opaque or at least tinted by the lead?
Thanks.
.
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|
| User: "PD" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
12 Sep 2006 11:29:10 PM |
|
|
wrote:
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
If there is sufficient lead embedded in the glass in a CRT, why isn't
the front opaque or at least tinted by the lead?
Thanks.
You don't see the electrons. You see light from phosphorescent paint
that glows when electrons hit the surface.
PD
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| User: "RP" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
13 Sep 2006 12:43:15 AM |
|
|
PD wrote:
mike7411@gmail.com wrote:
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
If there is sufficient lead embedded in the glass in a CRT, why isn't
the front opaque or at least tinted by the lead?
Thanks.
You don't see the electrons. You see light from phosphorescent paint
that glows when electrons hit the surface.
PD
Ahem! Light isn't what you see, it's what you see *with*. You don't
see light, you see the electrons.
Also, I Ithink he was asking here how leaded glass remains transparent
with lead in it. Seems you made two distinct errors in a single
statement. It hadn't even occured to me that such a thing was possible.
Well actually three. The third was posting the other two in a place
with trolls lurking about. :)
Richard Perry
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
13 Sep 2006 03:40:37 AM |
|
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"RP" <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158126194.972148.212430@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
|
| PD wrote:
| > wrote:
| > > PD wrote:
| > > > wrote:
| > > > > Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT
tube
| > > > > really radiation?
| > > > >
| > > > > Is it technically Beta radiation?
| > > >
| > > > Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
| > > > speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
| > > > (electrons).
| > > > Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
| > > > energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
| > > > kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
| > > >
| > > > PD
| > >
| > > If there is sufficient lead embedded in the glass in a CRT, why isn't
| > > the front opaque or at least tinted by the lead?
| > >
| > > Thanks.
| >
| > You don't see the electrons. You see light from phosphorescent paint
| > that glows when electrons hit the surface.
| >
| > PD
|
| Ahem! Light isn't what you see, it's what you see *with*. You don't
| see light, you see the electrons.
Ahem! Light isn't what you see, it's what you see *with*.
You don't see electrons, you see *with* the photons from the phosphor
*after* it is hit by the electon, so you see glowing phosphor.
|
| Also, I Ithink he was asking here how leaded glass remains transparent
| with lead in it. Seems you made two distinct errors in a single
| statement. It hadn't even occured to me that such a thing was possible.
| Well actually three. The third was posting the other two in a place
| with trolls lurking about. :)
|
| Richard Perry
Yes, you did.
Androcles
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
11 Sep 2006 06:00:25 PM |
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In article <1158013549.755806.196160@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, writes:
PD wrote:
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Since the source is not a radioactive element, it's not strictly
speaking beta radiation. However, the particles are identical
(electrons).
Beta electrons are given kinetic energy by the difference in binding
energy between parent and daughter nuclei. CRT electrons are given
kinetic energy by a transformer voltage.
PD
If there is sufficient lead embedded in the glass in a CRT, why isn't
the front opaque or at least tinted by the lead?
Why do you think it should become opaque. You're not adding pieces of
metallic lead, you're adding lead oxide while making the glass (mixing
it with the silicone oxide and whatever else is used). The result is
very clear up to quite high concentration. In fact, the so called
"crystal glass", used to make wine goblets, chandeliers etc. contains
lots of lead.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 12:30:25 AM |
|
|
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
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|
|
| User: "Dr. Moria" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 12:59:01 AM |
|
|
<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu...
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
All CRTs emit x-rays, it is a mater of how much.
The first color tubs were quite bad, so they turned down the voltage and
added about 10 pounds of Lead to the Glass to supress x-rays.
Why do monitors weigh so much? It is the lead desolved in the glass to
supress the x-rays.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 04:59:19 AM |
|
|
In article <RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu>,
wrote:
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 02:24:04 PM |
|
|
In article <ee0nln$8ss_002@s777.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, writes:
In article <RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
Old CRTs were letting some (albeit very small) amount of x-rays out.
Newer designs, pretty much nothing. Of course, by now CRTs are
disappearing alltogether.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
|
|
|
| User: "isw" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 11:13:05 PM |
|
|
In article <oDZMg.31$b5.100@news.uchicago.edu>,
wrote:
In article <ee0nln$8ss_002@s777.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu>,
wrote:
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
Old CRTs were letting some (albeit very small) amount of x-rays out.
Newer designs, pretty much nothing. Of course, by now CRTs are
disappearing alltogether.
Most of the problem was with x-radiation coming out the bottom of sets,
not through the faceplate. There used to be a high-voltage regulator
vacuum tube in color sets, and *that* is where the problem was. The
thing had about 26 kilovolts across it; plenty to generate x-rays.
Isaac
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 11:28:01 PM |
|
|
In article <isw-C0516A.21130510092006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>, isw <isw@witzend.com> writes:
In article <oDZMg.31$b5.100@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <ee0nln$8ss_002@s777.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
Old CRTs were letting some (albeit very small) amount of x-rays out.
Newer designs, pretty much nothing. Of course, by now CRTs are
disappearing alltogether.
Most of the problem was with x-radiation coming out the bottom of sets,
not through the faceplate. There used to be a high-voltage regulator
vacuum tube in color sets, and *that* is where the problem was. The
thing had about 26 kilovolts across it; plenty to generate x-rays.
Well, that can be easily shielded, 26 kV x-rays don't take much to
stop.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
|
|
|
| User: "isw" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
11 Sep 2006 11:04:35 PM |
|
|
In article <lB5Ng.33$b5.159@news.uchicago.edu>,
wrote:
In article <isw-C0516A.21130510092006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>, isw
<isw@witzend.com> writes:
In article <oDZMg.31$b5.100@news.uchicago.edu>,
wrote:
In article <ee0nln$8ss_002@s777.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu>,
wrote:
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
Old CRTs were letting some (albeit very small) amount of x-rays out.
Newer designs, pretty much nothing. Of course, by now CRTs are
disappearing alltogether.
Most of the problem was with x-radiation coming out the bottom of sets,
not through the faceplate. There used to be a high-voltage regulator
vacuum tube in color sets, and *that* is where the problem was. The
thing had about 26 kilovolts across it; plenty to generate x-rays.
Well, that can be easily shielded, 26 kV x-rays don't take much to
stop.
Right, and that's what the engineers did as soon as they found out about
the problem. But since they were electrical engineers and not
physicists, they just didn't know about high voltages and x-rays. Color
TV sets were the first pieces of consumer electronic gear that used
voltages anywhere near that high. B&W TVs generally used under 15 KV, so
no problem.
Isaac
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
12 Sep 2006 12:16:31 AM |
|
|
In article <isw-B0F7BE.21043411092006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>, isw <isw@witzend.com> writes:
In article <lB5Ng.33$b5.159@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <isw-C0516A.21130510092006@comcast.dca.giganews.com>, isw
<isw@witzend.com> writes:
In article <oDZMg.31$b5.100@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <ee0nln$8ss_002@s777.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <RpNMg.29$b5.109@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com writes:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
The stream of electrons is not making it through the glass.
Is it technically Beta radiation?
Would've been, would it managed to make it through the glass. Which,
it doesn't.
What can make it through the glass, if it is too thin, are secondary
x-rays and bremmstrahlung radiation, produced by the electrons upon
hitting the glass.
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
Old CRTs were letting some (albeit very small) amount of x-rays out.
Newer designs, pretty much nothing. Of course, by now CRTs are
disappearing alltogether.
Most of the problem was with x-radiation coming out the bottom of sets,
not through the faceplate. There used to be a high-voltage regulator
vacuum tube in color sets, and *that* is where the problem was. The
thing had about 26 kilovolts across it; plenty to generate x-rays.
Well, that can be easily shielded, 26 kV x-rays don't take much to
stop.
Right, and that's what the engineers did as soon as they found out about
the problem. But since they were electrical engineers and not
physicists, they just didn't know about high voltages and x-rays. Color
TV sets were the first pieces of consumer electronic gear that used
voltages anywhere near that high. B&W TVs generally used under 15 KV, so
no problem.
Yes, very true.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
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| User: "MathFreak NoMore" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 02:51:41 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 10 Sep 06 09:59:19 GMT,
wrote:
I remember getting yelled at for sitting too close to the TV
when I was a kid. The reason was to prevent getting zapped
with Xrays. I can't recall when that notion went away. The
screen was maybe a 6" diagonal in a wooden box the size of my
stove.
How things have changed.
Yeah including you.
Woman, get over it! You need someone to pull you out.
"Meron" is just a wimp. Just when are you going to find
that out?
--
"Zio HILLEL ***** deleted."
- Simon Beik
.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
|
| Title: Re: CRT stream |
10 Sep 2006 05:14:25 AM |
|
|
On a sunny day (9 Sep 2006 21:15:58 -0700) it happened
wrote in <1157861758.077512.95000@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
Is the stream of electrons that make it through the glass on a CRT tube
really radiation?
Not one single electron makes it _through_ the glass of the CRT.
.
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