Science > Physics > Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions?
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Kyle Taylor" |
| Date: |
26 Oct 2003 05:33:31 PM |
| Object: |
Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Suppose we have manage to acquire a car size junk of Dark
Matter and bring it to earth.
1. Would it be subject to gravity? Or would it just float in
the air?
2. Would it interpenetrate physical matter meaning would our
hands just pass thru it when we try to touch it? In other words,
is it solid in the physical sense?
3. What's the arguments against the possibility that Dark Matter
is right now interpenetrating the Earth and solar system and
we don't see it. I mean, how would the behavior of earth and
the solar system differ if Dark Matter are already interpenetrating
the entire earth and solar system?
4. I read the following about Dark Matter and want someone to
repute or support it "Her distribution shows that she's not subject
to gravity, because if she were, her density would decrease at
increasing distances from the center of the galaxy. While,
observing the universe on increasingly larger scale than a galaxy,
more and more conspicuous dark masses have been detected".
What the above author is implying is that Dark Matter may be
on earth and solar system right now interpenetrating even
even in our physical body. What's the argument against it?
5. The author theorized that Dark Matter is 90% of total
mass and is "heavy" because it glues physical matter together
through gravity. Any counter arguments?
6. This physicist theorist also wrote the following, "... soon
after the Big Bang, the observed universe underwent a phase
transition, that changed type of matter, and affected fields
too. Yet cosmology hasn't realized that the observed
universe is just a small portion (10%) of the total mass
that then solidified. That event is recorded in many holy
texts, such as the Bible, in Genesis, as the "separation of
light from darkness". The greater portion didn't solidify at
that time and is still co-existing as a "dark" mass, composing
many other universes, each one in a different phase of one
Substance."
"Dark matter composes all the non-solid phases of the
Substance"
(Further it is written):
"Physical matter is the solid state of the Substance. Its
solidity is evident in the atomic structure: almost the entire
atomic mass is trapped into an extremely small volume, the
nucleus, whose radius is 100,000 times less than the whole
atom. There is huge "vacuum" between the nucleus and
the electrons orbiting around it. This "vacuum" is actually
full of energy, physics has discovered. Its empty appearance
is due to our limited 5-sense perception. "Vacuum" coincides
with dark mass, in my view: it may therefore coexist with
physical matter with any atom, although we can't observe it.
While physical matter is ruled by ferocious nuclear forces
which constrain most of it into the very small nucleus, dark
matter is free and doesn't depend on them. It could be
organized by different laws.... ."
Now can experts pls try to refute or support the above.
I'd like to know specially if Dark Matter can be existing right
now in our physical bodies and interpenetrating the earth.
What's the strong arguments against each one of the above
questions. I've spent days thinking of it but can't quite nail
it. Thanks.
Kyle
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| User: "MorituriMax" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
26 Oct 2003 06:06:24 PM |
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"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Nobody does.
That's why it is called Dark Matter.. Not because it is "dark" in
color, but that we cannot see it with any known observation methods.
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 03:34:16 AM |
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"MorituriMax" <newage@sendarico.net> wrote in message
news:4kZmb.10830$xv4.1990@twister.austin.rr.com...
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Nobody does.
That's why it is called Dark Matter.. Not because it is "dark" in
color, but that we cannot see it with any known observation methods.
The only way "dark matter" can be detected so far is by *inference,* because
the visible matter components of certain cosmic structures do not seem to
possess enough mass to provide the gravitation necessary to keep them from
flying apart. Dark matter is the term for matter that produces the
gravitational attraction that is evident, but that cannot be seen.
I have one interesting hypothesis in this regard.
In addition to the usual "stable state" solutions to the Schroedinger
equation, there are *periodic* solutions - solutions with principal quantum
numbers = 1/n. These solutions describe a hydrogen atom that has no ability
to interact electromagnetically with light, but still posses the attributes
of mass and volume.
These "fractional n" atoms would *only* be able to change energy levels
through highly energetic inelastic collisions - collisions where the
available thermal energy is sufficient to totally ionize normal ground-state
hydrogen atoms. Schematically, two ground state hydrogens atoms could (in
principle) collide with enough kinetic energy to totally ionize each other,
and then recoil with even higher kinetic energy, provided by the transition
of the electrons from stationary-state orbitals with n = 1 to periodic
orbitals with n = 1/2 (the other quantum numbers would remain unchanged).
The absence of a change in angular momentum (both states have L=0)
characterizing a "forbidden transition" is the condition that results in the
necessity for such a mechanism and which prohibits photon (L=1)
interactions.
Such a material could form in a high-temperature, hydrogen-rich environment
and would have half the molecular weight of regular diatomic hydrogen.
Still, it has mass, and would have gravity.
One could possibly produce this matter in the laboratory under the right
conditions. It would persist on cooling and could be analyzed
chromatographically at ppb levels using a thermal conductivity detector in
an argon carrier. One would simply need to confine atomic hydrogen and
provide an environment conducive to inelastic collisions. It would be
interesting if this could be done in a matrix such as within a crystal of
titanium or palladium.
Tom Davidson
Brighton, CO
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| User: "MorituriMax" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 02:23:20 AM |
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"tadchem" <tadchemNOSPAM@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:v-OdnbeWqrnFVwGiRVn-jw@comcast.com...
"MorituriMax" <newage@sendarico.net> wrote in message
news:4kZmb.10830$xv4.1990@twister.austin.rr.com...
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Nobody does.
That's why it is called Dark Matter.. Not because it is "dark" in
color, but that we cannot see it with any known observation
methods.
The only way "dark matter" can be detected so far is by *inference,*
because
the visible matter components of certain cosmic structures do not
seem to
possess enough mass to provide the gravitation necessary to keep
them from
flying apart. Dark matter is the term for matter that produces the
gravitational attraction that is evident, but that cannot be seen.
Rog that.. forgot to append that idea..
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
26 Oct 2003 06:11:41 PM |
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MorituriMax wrote:
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Nobody does.
That's why it is called Dark Matter.. Not because it is "dark" in
color, but that we cannot see it with any known observation methods.
....other than the effect of its gravity.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#DM
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101matter.html
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| User: "MorituriMax" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 02:21:52 AM |
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"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:3F9C62B6.A024A0CE@mchsi.com...
MorituriMax wrote:
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Nobody does.
That's why it is called Dark Matter.. Not because it is "dark" in
color, but that we cannot see it with any known observation
methods.
...other than the effect of its gravity.
Right, that's what I meant to imply.. thanks!
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| User: "EL" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
26 Oct 2003 08:45:18 PM |
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(Kyle Taylor) wrote in message news:<cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com>...
Now can experts pls try to refute or support the above.
I'd like to know specially if Dark Matter can be existing right
now in our physical bodies and interpenetrating the earth.
What's the strong arguments against each one of the above
questions. I've spent days thinking of it but can't quite nail
it. Thanks.
Kyle
[EL]
I bought a set of dark matter from Mitsu-Bishi the other day.
I am no sure if it was a complete set or if some were missing.
The set is labelled by the darkness of the matter on one side and the
hardness of the dark matter on the other side.
The set I have is:
6B, 5B, 4B, 3B, 2B, 1B, B, HB, H, 2H, 3H, 4H, 5H, 6H, 7H, 8H, 9H.
So all of them are dark but darkness of matter differs from one pencil
to the other. :)
EL
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| User: "Double-A" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 03:47:38 AM |
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(Kyle Taylor) wrote in message news:<cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com>...
Another thought about Dark Matter is that unless it has it's own
counterparts to the electromagnetic, strong, and weak nuclear forces,
it should very quickly collapse into singularities, having no way of
resisting gravity.
If it has the forces needed to maintain a material structure, then
there must exist forces of which we are unaware.
If not, then any considerable amount of dark matter interpenetrating
the Earth would form a singularity, which could in turn suck in the
Earth.
Double-A
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 04:59:13 AM |
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Double-A wrote:
If it has the forces needed to maintain a material structure, then
there must exist forces of which we are unaware.
If what you are talking about interacts with ordinary stuff then we
would be aware of it, even if we did not understand it. If we are
unaware of something either its interactions are off scale to our senses
and instruments OR it does not exist. If something does not exist, then
we would be unaware of it.
The way you show there is something to talk about it by exhibiting an
observable interaction with stuff that we do understand, even if only in
part.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Double-A" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 02:21:26 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <bobkolker@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<bnitq9$11l4pf$2@ID-76471.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Double-A wrote:
If it has the forces needed to maintain a material structure, then
there must exist forces of which we are unaware.
If what you are talking about interacts with ordinary stuff then we
would be aware of it, even if we did not understand it. If we are
unaware of something either its interactions are off scale to our senses
and instruments OR it does not exist. If something does not exist, then
we would be unaware of it.
The way you show there is something to talk about it by exhibiting an
observable interaction with stuff that we do understand, even if only in
part.
Bob Kolker
The proposed Dark Matter is said to not interact with ordinary stuff
except through gravity. So whatever forces make it viable as matter,
that is be able to clump together as bodies with extension without
collapsing into singularities, would not be not observable by us.
Thus they would forces of which we are unaware.
If it collapses into singularities, then since it does interact with
us gravitationally, it could suck us in like any other singularity.
However, another possibility is that it does not clump together. That
it is like neutrinos, having too little mass per particle and too much
energy to form into bodies. But could such light particles contribute
enough mass to explain the rapid rotation of galaxies?
Then there is a third possibility. Cosmic strings anyone?
Doouble-A
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| User: "Gordon D. Pusch" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 06:24:37 PM |
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(Double-A) writes:
"Robert J. Kolker" <bobkolker@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<bnitq9$11l4pf$2@ID-76471.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Double-A wrote:
If it has the forces needed to maintain a material structure, then
there must exist forces of which we are unaware.
If what you are talking about interacts with ordinary stuff then we
would be aware of it, even if we did not understand it. If we are
unaware of something either its interactions are off scale to our senses
and instruments OR it does not exist. If something does not exist, then
we would be unaware of it.
The way you show there is something to talk about it by exhibiting an
observable interaction with stuff that we do understand, even if only in
part.
The proposed Dark Matter is said to not interact with ordinary stuff
except through gravity. So whatever forces make it viable as matter,
that is be able to clump together as bodies with extension without
collapsing into singularities, would not be not observable by us.
Thus they would forces of which we are unaware.
No such forces to "prevent clumping" are necessary. Quite the opposite:
If "Dark Matter" is unable to interact via any force except gravitation,
it has no means of "cooling" itself (losing potential and kinetic energy),
and therefore would be _UNABLE_ to "collapse into a singularity."
-- Gordon D. Pusch
perl -e '$_ = "gdpusch\@NO.xnet.SPAM.com\n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
28 Oct 2003 08:18:09 AM |
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"Gordon D. Pusch" <g_d_pusch_remove_underscores@xnet.com> wrote in message
news:gioew2qke2.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
No such forces to "prevent clumping" are necessary. Quite the opposite:
If "Dark Matter" is unable to interact via any force except gravitation,
it has no means of "cooling" itself (losing potential and kinetic energy),
and therefore would be _UNABLE_ to "collapse into a singularity."
I would think that dynamical friction would still apply, no?
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| User: "Gordon D. Pusch" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
28 Oct 2003 10:14:52 AM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> writes:
"Gordon D. Pusch" <g_d_pusch_remove_underscores@xnet.com> wrote in message
news:gioew2qke2.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
No such forces to "prevent clumping" are necessary. Quite the opposite:
If "Dark Matter" is unable to interact via any force except gravitation,
it has no means of "cooling" itself (losing potential and kinetic energy),
and therefore would be _UNABLE_ to "collapse into a singularity."
I would think that dynamical friction would still apply, no?
Yes, but it is not a very efficient mechanism when the particle-masses are
smaller than stars. (Furthermore, since much of the "normal" matter is
concentrated into stars, whereas the "Dark Matter" is believed to be a
thinly dispersed, cold "gas" of particles, the stars ploughing through
the effect of "dynamical friction" will be to "heat" the Dark Matter gas
and cool the stars, causing the "Dark Matter" halo to _expand_, and the
normal matter stars to "sink" to the galactic core |||)
A more plausible mechanism would be "evaporative cooling," but even this
mechanism is ineffective at causing sub-galactic-mass assemblages of
"Cold Dark Matter" to "collapse," even over cosmologically large timescales.
Gravity is simply far too weak a force to cause rapid collapses all by itself,
unless the object is _ALREADY_ on the very verge of becoming a black hole;
prior to that, other energy-loss mechanisms are necessary.
-- Gordon D. Pusch
perl -e '$_ = "gdpusch\@NO.xnet.SPAM.com\n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
28 Oct 2003 12:46:39 PM |
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In article <AUunb.38502$Pt3.1173097@weber.videotron.net>, "Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> writes:
"Gordon D. Pusch" <g_d_pusch_remove_underscores@xnet.com> wrote in message
news:gioew2qke2.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
No such forces to "prevent clumping" are necessary. Quite the opposite:
If "Dark Matter" is unable to interact via any force except gravitation,
it has no means of "cooling" itself (losing potential and kinetic energy),
and therefore would be _UNABLE_ to "collapse into a singularity."
I would think that dynamical friction would still apply, no?
Friction means interaction, one capable of transferring energy to
internal degrees of freedom. No interaction, no friction.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
28 Oct 2003 12:52:22 PM |
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<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:jQynb.92$_4.44972@news.uchicago.edu...
In article <AUunb.38502$Pt3.1173097@weber.videotron.net>, "Greg Neill"
<gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> writes:
"Gordon D. Pusch" <g_d_pusch_remove_underscores@xnet.com> wrote in message
news:gioew2qke2.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
No such forces to "prevent clumping" are necessary. Quite the opposite:
If "Dark Matter" is unable to interact via any force except gravitation,
it has no means of "cooling" itself (losing potential and kinetic energy),
and therefore would be _UNABLE_ to "collapse into a singularity."
I would think that dynamical friction would still apply, no?
Friction means interaction, one capable of transferring energy to
internal degrees of freedom. No interaction, no friction.
The interaction is purely gravitational. Unless, of course,
dark matter has some other interaction with itself that
is unique.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
28 Oct 2003 01:11:56 PM |
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In article <OVynb.2059$Nz5.214311@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> writes:
<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:jQynb.92$_4.44972@news.uchicago.edu...
In article <AUunb.38502$Pt3.1173097@weber.videotron.net>, "Greg Neill"
<gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> writes:
"Gordon D. Pusch" <g_d_pusch_remove_underscores@xnet.com> wrote in message
news:gioew2qke2.fsf@pusch.xnet.com...
No such forces to "prevent clumping" are necessary. Quite the opposite:
If "Dark Matter" is unable to interact via any force except gravitation,
it has no means of "cooling" itself (losing potential and kinetic energy),
and therefore would be _UNABLE_ to "collapse into a singularity."
I would think that dynamical friction would still apply, no?
Friction means interaction, one capable of transferring energy to
internal degrees of freedom. No interaction, no friction.
The interaction is purely gravitational. Unless, of course,
dark matter has some other interaction with itself that
is unique.
Well, purely gravitational interaction is not really capable of
cooling (other than "evaporative" which is very inefficient).
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
28 Oct 2003 01:26:39 PM |
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<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message news:0cznb.94$_4.45068@news.uchicago.edu...
In article <OVynb.2059$Nz5.214311@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Greg Neill"
<gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> writes:
The interaction is purely gravitational. Unless, of course,
dark matter has some other interaction with itself that
is unique.
Well, purely gravitational interaction is not really capable of
cooling (other than "evaporative" which is very inefficient).
Agreed.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 09:01:35 AM |
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In article <79094630.0310270147.14d97959@posting.google.com>,
Double-A <double-a@hush.com> wrote:
kyletaylorny@yahoo.com (Kyle Taylor) wrote in message
news:<cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com>...
Another thought about Dark Matter is that unless it has it's own
counterparts to the electromagnetic, strong, and weak nuclear forces,
it should very quickly collapse into singularities, having no way of
resisting gravity.
And we are the dark matter mystery to them.
--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé
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| User: "Double-A" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 03:08:12 AM |
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(Kyle Taylor) wrote in message news:<cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com>...
[snip]
3. What's the arguments against the possibility that Dark Matter
is right now interpenetrating the Earth and solar system and
we don't see it. I mean, how would the behavior of earth and
the solar system differ if Dark Matter are already interpenetrating
the entire earth and solar system?
In my view, if there were any significant body of dark matter
interpenetrating the Earth, the two bodies, coupled only by gravity
and with no friction between them, would have to be orbiting a common
center of gravity. Frictional forces, such as those arising from the
ocean tides, have long-term effects on the motion of an ordinary
material body such as the Earth. But those forces would not affect
the dark matter counterpart, and so the two bodies are unlikely to
stay in completely synchronous motion. Thus the Earth should display
an observable and unexplained wobble if a dark matter counterpart is
present. But to my knowledge, no such wobble has been observed.
Double-A
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| User: "\formerly" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
26 Oct 2003 06:52:22 PM |
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Dear Kyle Taylor:
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Suppose we have manage to acquire a car size junk of Dark
Matter and bring it to earth.
Be sure and vist the links that Sam Wormley provided.
1. Would it be subject to gravity? Or would it just float in
the air?
Subject to gravity, yes. It would not float in the air.
2. Would it interpenetrate physical matter meaning would our
hands just pass thru it when we try to touch it? In other words,
is it solid in the physical sense?
It is not expected to be "touchable". It is "Dark" for the precise reason
that light is not affected by it. Presumably then, physical touch, which
is moderated by electrostatic forces, would not be possible.
3. What's the arguments against the possibility that Dark Matter
is right now interpenetrating the Earth and solar system and
we don't see it. I mean, how would the behavior of earth and
the solar system differ if Dark Matter are already interpenetrating
the entire earth and solar system?
Dark Matter was proposed to explain why galaxies spin faster at the edges
than their mass would allow. So Dark Matter is expected to be
(conveniently) distributed in increasing proportion, right up to the edge
of a galaxy. If Dark Matter were interpenetrating the inner solar system,
then our determinations of the mass of the Sun, and all the planets would
be in error.
4. I read the following about Dark Matter and want someone to
repute or support it "Her distribution shows that she's not subject
to gravity, because if she were, her density would decrease at
increasing distances from the center of the galaxy. While,
observing the universe on increasingly larger scale than a galaxy,
more and more conspicuous dark masses have been detected".
What the above author is implying is that Dark Matter may be
on earth and solar system right now interpenetrating even
even in our physical body. What's the argument against it?
No argument. We'd just have a disjoint as to what mass is visible and what
isn't. There is pretty good agreement with expected mass the Earth
*should* have based on its size. And this is looking at atomic masses on
up. You might sneak an extra 5% into a planet, but I'd be truly surprised
if it were that much.
5. The author theorized that Dark Matter is 90% of total
mass and is "heavy" because it glues physical matter together
through gravity. Any counter arguments?
Not observed. A nucleus is bonded protons (and neutrons). Gravity is many
orders of magnitude smaller than the electrostatic force, and it is in turn
orders of magnitude smaller than the nuclear forces. Yet strong positive
charges are held quite close together. From the very small to the size of
the Solar System, Dark Matter is pretty much disallowed.
At some point Pioneer 10 passed a threshold, where it is remotely possible,
some Dark Matter added a very small amount to the mass of the Solar System.
There are a number of other very viable explanations for this, including
simple friction against slower "solar wind", so don't think this is
anything like gospel.
6. This physicist theorist also wrote the following, "... soon
after the Big Bang, the observed universe underwent a phase
transition, that changed type of matter, and affected fields
too. Yet cosmology hasn't realized that the observed
universe is just a small portion (10%) of the total mass
that then solidified. That event is recorded in many holy
texts, such as the Bible, in Genesis, as the "separation of
light from darkness". The greater portion didn't solidify at
that time and is still co-existing as a "dark" mass, composing
many other universes, each one in a different phase of one
Substance."
"Dark matter composes all the non-solid phases of the
Substance"
(Further it is written):
"Physical matter is the solid state of the Substance. Its
solidity is evident in the atomic structure: almost the entire
atomic mass is trapped into an extremely small volume, the
nucleus, whose radius is 100,000 times less than the whole
atom. There is huge "vacuum" between the nucleus and
the electrons orbiting around it. This "vacuum" is actually
full of energy, physics has discovered. Its empty appearance
is due to our limited 5-sense perception. "Vacuum" coincides
with dark mass, in my view: it may therefore coexist with
physical matter with any atom, although we can't observe it.
While physical matter is ruled by ferocious nuclear forces
which constrain most of it into the very small nucleus, dark
matter is free and doesn't depend on them. It could be
organized by different laws.... ."
Now can experts pls try to refute or support the above.
I'd like to know specially if Dark Matter can be existing right
now in our physical bodies and interpenetrating the earth.
What's the strong arguments against each one of the above
questions. I've spent days thinking of it but can't quite nail
it. Thanks.
The recent CMBR analyses have been cited as evidence that Dark Matter did
not exist at that time.
Do not spend effort arguing with religious fanatics. Their blindness is
infectious.
David A. Smith
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 07:12:00 AM |
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"dlzc@aol.com \(formerly\)" <dlzc1.cox@net> wrote in message news:<c%Zmb.117594$gv5.75387@fed1read05>...
Dark Matter was proposed to explain why galaxies spin faster at the edges
than their mass would allow.
Ques???
Do you know how observational astronomers determine spin rates of
galaxies? do they time the apparent rotation of the arms? or do the
measure the difference in redshift blueshift between the approaching
receding arms??
I've heard a recent measurment on globular clusters suggest they do
not contain dark matter.
Thanks
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| User: "\formerly" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 08:09:06 AM |
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Dear Bill:
"Bill" <wgilmour@i-zoom.net> wrote in message
news:40a688b4.0310270512.5550c755@posting.google.com...
"dlzc@aol.com \(formerly\)" <dlzc1.cox@net> wrote in message
news:<c%Zmb.117594$gv5.75387@fed1read05>...
Dark Matter was proposed to explain why galaxies spin faster at the
edges
than their mass would allow.
Ques???
Do you know how observational astronomers determine spin rates of
galaxies? do they time the apparent rotation of the arms? or do the
measure the difference in redshift blueshift between the approaching
receding arms??
I believe the latter is correct. It takes millions of years for these
objects to rotate "once". The anomaly with spiral galaxies is they spin
*almost* like a rigid object. The outside spins just a little slower that
the core.
I've heard a recent measurment on globular clusters suggest they do
not contain dark matter.
And the CMBR as well showed no Dark Matter this long after the Big Bang.
David A. Smith
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| User: "Kyle Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 12:10:26 AM |
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"dlzc@aol.com \(formerly\)" <dlzc1.cox@net> wrote in message news:<c%Zmb.117594$gv5.75387@fed1read05>...
Dear Kyle Taylor:
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Suppose we have manage to acquire a car size junk of Dark
Matter and bring it to earth.
Be sure and vist the links that Sam Wormley provided.
1. Would it be subject to gravity? Or would it just float in
the air?
Subject to gravity, yes. It would not float in the air.
Hmm... Suppose a Dark Matter falls from the sky into my bedroom.
Would it stay in my bedroom floor or would it pass thru the
ground to the centre of the earth. How can something have gravity
yet without mass?? Suppose I made a baseball bat out of Dark
Matter and hit a monkey. It won't affect him, yet when I drop it,
it would fall to the center of the earth??
Furthermose, supposed many dark matter reaches the earth and it
gravitates to the core of the earth. Would it get larger and
larger (much like filling a cup with water until it fills up)
finally occupying the mantle and crust of the earth to reach
the surface or would it just stay at the core interpenetrating
amongst themselves? If its the latter, is there a limit to the
interpenetration density. Would the Dark Matter of an entire
galaxy fit in a small cup or basin intepenetrating amongst
themselves?
Kyle
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| User: "\formerly" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 08:06:12 AM |
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Dear Kyle Taylor:
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310262210.1f37fdeb@posting.google.com...
"dlzc@aol.com \(formerly\)" <dlzc1.cox@net> wrote in message
news:<c%Zmb.117594$gv5.75387@fed1read05>...
Dear Kyle Taylor:
"Kyle Taylor" <kyletaylorny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cbc689e8.0310261533.f380e0b@posting.google.com...
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Suppose we have manage to acquire a car size junk of Dark
Matter and bring it to earth.
Be sure and vist the links that Sam Wormley provided.
1. Would it be subject to gravity? Or would it just float in
the air?
Subject to gravity, yes. It would not float in the air.
Hmm... Suppose a Dark Matter falls from the sky into my bedroom.
Would it stay in my bedroom floor or would it pass thru the
ground to the centre of the earth. How can something have gravity
yet without mass?? Suppose I made a baseball bat out of Dark
Matter and hit a monkey. It won't affect him, yet when I drop it,
it would fall to the center of the earth??
It would oscillate up and down through the Earth. What we consider "solid"
is actions based on electrostatic "repulsion". Dark Matter cannot respond
to that, since it is transparent to EM.
Furthermose, supposed many dark matter reaches the earth and it
gravitates to the core of the earth. Would it get larger and
larger (much like filling a cup with water until it fills up)
finally occupying the mantle and crust of the earth to reach
the surface or would it just stay at the core interpenetrating
amongst themselves? If its the latter, is there a limit to the
interpenetration density. Would the Dark Matter of an entire
galaxy fit in a small cup or basin intepenetrating amongst
themselves?
Volume is a constraint that has not been placed on Dark Matter, only
distribution (at the edges of galaxies). But friction is one feature that
it cannot have, except with perhaps other Dark Matter. If it falls in from
orbit, it will propagate out the farside, unless *perhaps* Dark Matter
already at the core can distribute up the falling Matter's energy.
David A. Smith
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
26 Oct 2003 06:48:31 PM |
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Kyle Taylor wrote:
I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
behave on earth
Suppose we have manage to acquire a car size junk of Dark
Matter and bring it to earth.
1. Would it be subject to gravity? Or would it just float in
the air?
Dark matter is curve fitting. As a physical entity It would act like
a SuperSymmetry neutralino - nothing for it to decay into, inherently
relativistic, no electromagnetic interactions at all (no way to cool
by radiation or scattering), subject only to gravitation.
2. Would it interpenetrate physical matter meaning would our
hands just pass thru it when we try to touch it? In other words,
is it solid in the physical sense?
No electromagnetic interactions at all. Invisible and imperceptible.
Freely passes through all matter. No interaction cross-section for
anything. It rides the shape of spacetime (gravitation). It doesn't
agglomerate, either - no mechanism for binding except gravitation. It
cannot condense into "stars" because there is no mechanism for cooling
during coalescence.
3. What's the arguments against the possibility that Dark Matter
is right now interpenetrating the Earth and solar system and
we don't see it. I mean, how would the behavior of earth and
the solar system differ if Dark Matter are already interpenetrating
the entire earth and solar system?
No electromagnetic interactions at all. Invisible, imperceptible,
freely permeable. All dark matter would do is add to the mass of a
galaxy to correct its measured orbital velocity vs. radius.
4. I read the following about Dark Matter and want someone to
repute or support it "Her distribution shows that she's not subject
to gravity, because if she were, her density would decrease at
increasing distances from the center of the galaxy. While,
observing the universe on increasingly larger scale than a galaxy,
more and more conspicuous dark masses have been detected".
What the above author is implying is that Dark Matter may be
on earth and solar system right now interpenetrating even
even in our physical body. What's the argument against it?
Relativistic particles subject only to gravitation and incapable of
cooling will stack density like a loosely bound atmosphere. There is
nothing to detect except gross gravitational interaction.
5. The author theorized that Dark Matter is 90% of total
mass and is "heavy" because it glues physical matter together
through gravity. Any counter arguments?
Either you are misquoting or the author is blowing it out his bottom.
[snip]
"Physical matter is the solid state of the Substance. Its
solidity is evident in the atomic structure: almost the entire
atomic mass is trapped into an extremely small volume, the
nucleus, whose radius is 100,000 times less than the whole
atom. There is huge "vacuum" between the nucleus and
the electrons orbiting around it. This "vacuum" is actually
full of energy, physics has discovered. Its empty appearance
is due to our limited 5-sense perception. "Vacuum" coincides
with dark mass, in my view:
Your view is at odds with all of physics. Learn something about zero
point fluctuations of the quantum vacuum, Casimir effect, Lamb shift,
vacuum Rabi oscillations, electron anomalous g-factor... and dark
matter. If you possess no empirical knowledge your deductions will be
empirical crap.
[snip]
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)
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| User: "Roedy Green" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
26 Oct 2003 10:26:33 PM |
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On 26 Oct 2003 15:33:31 -0800, (Kyle Taylor)
wrote or quoted :
That event is recorded in many holy
texts, such as the Bible, in Genesis, as the "separation of
light from darkness". T
Given that the bible has been wrong on nearly every scientific and
historic matter, it seems hardly a place to go for reliable
cosmological information.
see http://mindprod.com/noah.html
--
Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
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| User: "Arid ace" |
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| Title: Re: Dark Matter Interpenetrating the Earth & Vacuum Constitutions? |
27 Oct 2003 07:52:11 AM |
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On 26 Oct 2003 15:33:31 -0800, (Kyle Taylor) wrote:
*I don't understand Dark Matter behavior very well. So
*I'll try to understand it by getting analogy of how it may
*behave on earth
If i remember well, there's the uncomfortable observation
of Doppler shifts, suggesting the universe is expanding at
an accelerating rate. That requires a force. Hence dark
matter was conjured up, to provide that force.
*
*Suppose we have manage to acquire a car size junk of Dark
*Matter and bring it to earth.
Why not do what Einstein did? The analogy of a cosmological constant (sometimes
termed "fiddle factor").
*
*1. Would it be subject to gravity? Or would it just float in
*the air?
Suppose the gravitational force is proportional to [A/(r^2) - B*r]
with (of course) A>>B and there's a fiddle factor to "explain" long distance
repulsion without recourse to elusive dark matter that is transparent to all EM
waves.
*
<snip>
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