| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
22 May 2005 01:47:51 AM |
| Object: |
design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 03:35:38 AM |
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<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
Build a cubicle and the extract moist air outside. Use a heat exchanger in
the exit to recover the water?
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 11:30:08 AM |
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to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
Build a cubicle and the extract moist air outside. Use a heat exchanger in
the exit to recover the water?
Electrostatic precipitators will pull water droplets out of the air, but
there are some obvious safety issues.
If you pump the air through the right type of fabric it would probably
filter the air of water droplets, but not all fabrics would work. You would
probably need a fairly large cloth membrane.
The best option would be electrostatic, where your collectors are cooled to
effect precipitation of gas phase water as well. An electrically charged
automotive radiator filled with relatively cool water would probably do the
job, would probably be about 95% efficient.
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 09:56:19 AM |
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In this application such a heat exchanger would be called a condensor,
since its objective would be to recover the water, not the heat.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 01:28:36 PM |
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"tadchem" <thomas.davidson@dla.mil> wrote in message
news:1116860179.810230.285700@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In this application such a heat exchanger would be called a condensor,
since its objective would be to recover the water, not the heat.
Well you could always use the heat to heat the water for the shower as well.
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 10:39:33 PM |
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Dear CWatters:
"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:ohpke.99277$WN5.5665839@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
"tadchem" <thomas.davidson@dla.mil> wrote in message
news:1116860179.810230.285700@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In this application such a heat exchanger would
be called a condensor, since its objective would
be to recover the water, not the heat.
Well you could always use the heat to heat the
water for the shower as well.
Not if the reservoir were covered (without evaporation), and in
equilibrium with ambient air. It would not condense water in
this state, so it would have to be chilled. Then you'd be into a
refrigeration cycle...
David A. Smith
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 11:07:54 AM |
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<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
What do they do in the space station?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 11:56:45 PM |
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CWatters wrote:
What do they do in the space station?
I answer the question with another question.... do they get paid
overtime if they work for more than 8 hours?
To answer your question.... sponge baths.
They don't do laundry. Clothes are thrown away after they are adjudged
to be too smelly. Really.
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
24 May 2005 12:01:19 AM |
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<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
<humor>
Seal the shower
Do while (O2 > 0% ) OR (DiHydrogen Monoxide < 100%)
Lather
Rinse
Repeat
Break seal
Towel off
</humor>
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| User: "Carl" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
24 May 2005 12:35:45 AM |
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"Carl" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:zyyke.989$JY1.562@news02.roc.ny...
Seal the shower
Do while (O2 > 0% ) OR (DiHydrogen Monoxide < 100%)
Lather
Rinse
Repeat
Break seal
Towel off
<humor again>
Of course, the dangers of DiHydrogen Monoxide cannot be over stated. Nearly
every person on the planet is addicted to it, requiring daily doses to
sustain a feeling of well-being, and many die each year from over exposure.
If you desire more information, please head over to http://www.dhmo.org/ for
more information. Extreme caution should be taken.
</humor>
[snickers]
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
24 May 2005 12:04:55 AM |
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Dear Carl:
"Carl" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:zyyke.989$JY1.562@news02.roc.ny...
<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish
to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for
showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible
amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that
my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not
infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
<humor>
Seal the shower
Do while (O2 > 0% )
O2 > 14%, so you stay conscious.
OR (DiHydrogen Monoxide < 100%)
Lather
Rinse
Repeat
Break seal
Towel off
</humor>
David A. Smith
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| User: "Old Man" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 07:12:32 PM |
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<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
Take a bath instead.
[Old Man]
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 09:56:31 PM |
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Cold water does not increase humidity as much as hot water.
You could shower using very cold water, or simply scrape your body with
small blocks of ice.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 12:05:15 AM |
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Cold water does not increase humidity as much as hot water
Ah, but I always use up my cold-water-shower supply from never
getting laid.
simply scrape your body with small blocks of ice.
I heard that the self-scourging that Shiite Fundamentalists perform
on the
anniversary of Ali's Martyrdom, does a great job of scraping the
skin clean.
Saves them a lot of water and energy making up ice-cubes, also.....
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 09:42:15 AM |
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Dear alanh_27:
<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home,
I wish to design/build/install a bathshower which
is optimized for showering at (say for example)
104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another
motivation is that my water comes from
rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not
infinite... so I wish to maximize the rinse-useage
of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
R. Buckminster Fuller.
URL:http://www.buckminster.info/Ideas/07-IcosHouseShowerScientific.htm
.... really slow loading. And notice that the shower apparently
blew the guy's privates off. ;>)
David A. Smith
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 06:54:17 PM |
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In article <1116744471.589191.92150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote:
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
Turn on the bathroom fan to suck air out while you shower. The thermostat
isn't in the bathroom, so keep the vapor from circulating through the
house.
--
"Out of the way, you slime, a physicist is coming!"
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 11:58:51 PM |
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Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
Turn on the bathroom fan to suck air out while you shower. The
thermostat
isn't in the bathroom, so keep the vapor from circulating through the
And the make-up air comes from where.... and bears how much humidity?
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 09:06:21 AM |
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In article <1116824331.315560.53970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<alanh_27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
Turn on the bathroom fan to suck air out while you shower. The
thermostat
isn't in the bathroom, so keep the vapor from circulating through the
And the make-up air comes from where.... and bears how much humidity?
The make-up air comes from outside and bears less humidity than the shower
air does, and is likely cooler than 104F.
Compared with the continuous exchange of air and energy along the entire
outside surface of the house 24 hours per day, I suspect that the shower
load is pretty small.
--
"The polhode rolls without slipping on the herpolhode lying in the
invariable plane." -- Goldstein, Classical Mechanics 2nd. ed., p207.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 09:52:16 AM |
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In sci.physics wrote:
to minimize the air-chilling load in a tropical home, I wish to
design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for showering at
(say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible amount of
water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that my water
comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not infinite... so I
wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water.
I open the floor to suggestions.
A swag says the amount of water lost to evaporation is probably trivial
compared to the amount of water going down the drain.
A vent to the outside to keep it out of the air conditioned areas.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 11:07:32 AM |
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<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:d6q6b0$k84$5@mail.specsol.com...
A swag says the amount of water lost to evaporation is probably trivial
compared to the amount of water going down the drain.
Yes but the latter is easy to collect.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 04:41:32 PM |
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In sci.physics CWatters <colin.watters@pandorabox.be> wrote:
<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:d6q6b0$k84$5@mail.specsol.com...
A swag says the amount of water lost to evaporation is probably trivial
compared to the amount of water going down the drain.
Yes but the latter is easy to collect.
True, but then what do you do with it?
Detergents are difficult to filter out.
If it is a tropical area, I would assume there is lots of water around
in general but a lack of drinking grade water.
Solar still?
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 02:00:03 PM |
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In sci.physics, CWatters
<colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be>
wrote
on Sun, 22 May 2005 16:07:32 GMT
<872ke.98285$ru.5557356@phobos.telenet-ops.be>:
<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:d6q6b0$k84$5@mail.specsol.com...
A swag says the amount of water lost to evaporation is probably trivial
compared to the amount of water going down the drain.
Yes but the latter is easy to collect.
True, if one doesn't mind "gray water". It would have to be
filtered prior to reuse, though in the case of a shower that
might not be all that difficult as the impurities are mostly
hydrocarbons (soap).
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 04:15:11 PM |
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Dear The Ghost In The Machine:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net>
wrote in message
news:2bu6m2-a44.ln1@sirius.athghost7038suus.net...
In sci.physics, CWatters
<colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be>
wrote
on Sun, 22 May 2005 16:07:32 GMT
<872ke.98285$ru.5557356@phobos.telenet-ops.be>:
<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:d6q6b0$k84$5@mail.specsol.com...
A swag says the amount of water lost to
evaporation is probably trivial compared to
the amount of water going down the drain.
Yes but the latter is easy to collect.
True, if one doesn't mind "gray water". It
would have to be filtered prior to reuse,
though in the case of a shower that might
not be all that difficult as the impurities are
mostly hydrocarbons (soap).
Surfactants aren't all that easy to filter out. In the case of
most soaps, biological cultures exist that will consume it...
Better to simply minimize the amount of water (and soap) involved
in the process.
David A. Smith
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 06:00:03 PM |
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In sci.physics, N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)
<N>
wrote
on Sun, 22 May 2005 14:15:11 -0700
<zD6ke.905$rr.198@fed1read01>:
Dear The Ghost In The Machine:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net>
wrote in message
news:2bu6m2-a44.ln1@sirius.athghost7038suus.net...
In sci.physics, CWatters
<colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be>
wrote
on Sun, 22 May 2005 16:07:32 GMT
<872ke.98285$ru.5557356@phobos.telenet-ops.be>:
<jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com> wrote in message
news:d6q6b0$k84$5@mail.specsol.com...
A swag says the amount of water lost to
evaporation is probably trivial compared to
the amount of water going down the drain.
Yes but the latter is easy to collect.
True, if one doesn't mind "gray water". It
would have to be filtered prior to reuse,
though in the case of a shower that might
not be all that difficult as the impurities are
mostly hydrocarbons (soap).
Surfactants aren't all that easy to filter out. In the case of
most soaps, biological cultures exist that will consume it...
Better to simply minimize the amount of water (and soap) involved
in the process.
David A. Smith
Hmmm...OK, I stand corrected. An interesting problem.
Sponge bath, anyone? :-)
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "D Akers" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
22 May 2005 07:38:05 PM |
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You wrote;
"I wish to design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for
showering at (say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible
amount of water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that
my water comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not
infinite... so I wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water."
_____________________________________
Re;
Seal the shower area off with a vapor tight door and walls. Allow
adequate volume for breathing during the shower. The dew point will
equilibrate at around the water temperature in a short time and the
relative humidity will quickly rise to 100%; thus further evaporation
and vapor formation from the shower spray is halted or very minimized.
As an additional benefit, these conditions should allow a lower shower
water temperature to be comfortable (net energy savings).
When you are finished showering, exit the shower quickly, closing the
door quickly behind you. The excess vapor will soon condense on the
shower enclosure surfaces and flow to the floor drain where they can be
recovered.
-Dan Akers
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 01:07:19 AM |
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"D Akers" <digikey@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18707-429125ED-316@storefull-3135.bay.webtv.net...
You wrote;
"I wish to design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for
showering at (say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible
amount of water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that
my water comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not
infinite... so I wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water."
_____________________________________
Re;
Seal the shower area off with a vapor tight door and walls. Allow
adequate volume for breathing during the shower. The dew point will
equilibrate
Nice one.
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: design minimal-steaming bathshower? |
23 May 2005 10:37:50 PM |
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You wrote;
"I wish to design/build/install a bathshower which is optimized for
showering at (say for example) 104 F,while giving off the least possible
amount of water vapor into the ambient air. Another motivation is that
my water comes from rainwater-harvesting, and my storage is not
infinite... so I wish to maximize the rinse-useage of my water."
_____________________________________
Re;
Seal the shower area off with a vapor tight door and walls. Allow
adequate volume for breathing during the shower. The dew point will
equilibrate
You will need a wetsuit. The kind used for scuba diving. If you hook up some
hoses to it, you can bath yourself inside the suit with literally zero loss
due to evaporation. Be very careful where you configure the water inlet.
One of those hazmat bubble suits might also work for this purpose. If you
build it, please post video files for general feasability analysis.
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