| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"OrTiMoN" |
| Date: |
18 Nov 2003 08:07:38 PM |
| Object: |
Dimensions |
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only 2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my depth
:o)
--
OnCe UpOn a TiMe I UsEd A rEaL PoOtEr, NoW I HaVe To UsE A PeEcEe.
SPOT ThE FidoNet mAiL rEaDeR :o|
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| User: "Constantine" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 05:08:07 AM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only 2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my
depth
:o)
A piece of paper?
Kostas.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 09:18:09 AM |
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What so a piece of paper doesent have a 3rd dimension? what about the
thickess of the paper??
--
OnCe UpOn a TiMe I UsEd A rEaL PoOtEr, NoW I HaVe To UsE A PeEcEe.
SPOT ThE FidoNet mAiL rEaDeR :o|
"Constantine" <Konstantinos.Kyritsis@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:bpfj0d$d81$1@sirius.dur.ac.uk...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only
2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my
depth
:o)
A piece of paper?
Kostas.
.
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| User: "Constantine" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
22 Nov 2003 05:35:42 AM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpg56p$khh$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
What so a piece of paper doesent have a 3rd dimension? what about the
thickess of the paper??
Compared to the other two dimensions, it is negligible.
Kostas.
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| User: "Rich" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
22 Nov 2003 08:23:52 AM |
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Constantine replied:
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpg56p$khh$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
What so a piece of paper doesent have a 3rd dimension? what about the
thickess of the paper??
Compared to the other two dimensions, it is negligible.
To have 2D "negligible" is way to much, it needs to be zero, no?
Kostas.
Rich
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| User: "will e" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 08:22:14 PM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only 2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my
depth
:o)
Please elaborate on these keywords so that I am able to give you the answer
that you
need or want to hear.
By "how...can" do you mean a state or do you mean a process?
By "something" do you mean anything or just an object with mass?
By "physically exist" do you mean anything observable and measurable or only
something
that resists force?
By "2 dimensions" do you mean...Uh,...What do you mean?
The rest of the keywords I think I now understand what you mean. I'll ask
you a
question. And how you answer it will give me all the clues I need to choose
whether to
continue or to move on.
In a dark room with all the shades pulled down, a beam of sunlight passes
through a
hole in one of the shades. The beam strikes a front surface mirror and is
reflected to
a white wall on the opposite side of the room. And there, exists a spot of
light on the
wall. The dimensions of the light beam striking the mirror is a square 10 cm
X 10 cm,
and the dimensions of the resultant spot of light on the wall is a 12 cm X
12 cm
square.
How thick is the beam of light ON the mirror's front surface? How thick is
the light
spot on the wall? What are the dimensions of each of these? Regards, Will
E.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 08:01:22 PM |
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"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vro9bos7v67qbc@corp.supernews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only
2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my
depth
:o)
Please elaborate on these keywords so that I am able to give you the
answer
that you
need or want to hear.
By "how...can" do you mean a state or do you mean a process?
By "something" do you mean anything or just an object with mass?
By "physically exist" do you mean anything observable and measurable or
only
something
that resists force?
By "2 dimensions" do you mean...Uh,...What do you mean?
The rest of the keywords I think I now understand what you mean. I'll ask
you a
question. And how you answer it will give me all the clues I need to
choose
whether to
continue or to move on.
In a dark room with all the shades pulled down, a beam of sunlight passes
through a
hole in one of the shades. The beam strikes a front surface mirror and is
reflected to
a white wall on the opposite side of the room. And there, exists a spot of
light on the
wall. The dimensions of the light beam striking the mirror is a square 10
cm
X 10 cm,
and the dimensions of the resultant spot of light on the wall is a 12 cm X
12 cm
square.
How thick is the beam of light ON the mirror's front surface? How thick is
the light
spot on the wall? What are the dimensions of each of these? Regards, Will
E.
Well it would have it's effective mass all along the beam, the light at the
two points are not separate areas they are still a part of the beam of
kinetic energy from source, so in essence the mass is the whole beam! with
the dimensions of the beam of photons to match.
To the rest of Sci.physics
I don't know why from asking a simple question ( the 2D one ) I have been
met by so much animosity in this forum. I Hope this is not the case for
everyone who posts in here, hell it would be enough for the younger
generation to be put off physics for life. For the sake of the future I
hope some of the people in here would lighten up a bit! and please don't
take offence at this as I mean it in all sincerity.
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| User: "will e" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 10:45:41 PM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphapq$50a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
Well it would have it's effective mass all along the beam, the light at
the
two points are not separate areas they are still a part of the beam of
kinetic energy from source, so in essence the mass is the whole beam! with
the dimensions of the beam of photons to match.
O.K. There may be a few arguments on the details but lets assume your
analysis above is correct. Is there space between the beam of light and the
surface of the mirror? The plane of reflection between the light energy and
the surface (in essence) of the mirror is how thick?
To the rest of Sci.physics
I don't know why from asking a simple question ( the 2D one ) I have been
met by so much animosity in this forum. I Hope this is not the case for
everyone who posts in here, hell it would be enough for the younger
generation to be put off physics for life. For the sake of the future I
hope some of the people in here would lighten up a bit! and please don't
take offence at this as I mean it in all sincerity.
Certainly starting this thread with "r u scientists deluded or am I missing
something?"
and making the statement "You lot have the intellect of buffoons..." does
not make for meaningful dialog.
The way your original question was stated you did not ask for the
possibility of mass existing in our universe possessing only 2 dimensions,
you asked if there was something (anything) that existed with only two
dimensions. Many surfaces have only two dimensions, and they do exist here.
Some surfaces may in some interesting mathematical reality actually have
mass, but not density. (Density is a 3 dimensional property by
definition--mass /cm^3).
Hope this helps, Will E.
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| User: "Jim" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 11:36:13 PM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote:
<snip>
To the rest of Sci.physics
I don't know why from asking a simple question ( the 2D one ) I have been
met by so much animosity in this forum. I Hope this is not the case for
everyone who posts in here, hell it would be enough for the younger
generation to be put off physics for life. For the sake of the future I
hope some of the people in here would lighten up a bit! and please don't
take offence at this as I mean it in all sincerity.
Perhaps you forgot the other simple question you asked in the original
post:
"r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my depth"
Accusing these scientists of being deluded, isn't going to win you
a lot of favor. That same attitude, was evident in your other posts,
as well. Don't feel too bad. You may be new, but your attitude and
behavior aren't. They've been seen in sci.physics countless times
before.
Your 'simple question' has a side benefit. I might be able to learn
something from these scientists' replies. Thanks.
Their response was appropriate. Perhaps you'll learn something also.
You might be "put off physics for life"?
Somehow I think science will survive. :)
Jim
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| User: "ghytrfvbnmju7654" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 11:21:37 PM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message news:<bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only 2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my depth
:o)
What is the context of your question?
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| User: "will e" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 12:48:35 PM |
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Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between the Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.? (Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a flat plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and of the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a book. The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only 2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my
depth
:o)
--
OnCe UpOn a TiMe I UsEd A rEaL PoOtEr, NoW I HaVe To UsE A PeEcEe.
SPOT ThE FidoNet mAiL rEaDeR :o|
.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 11:54:28 AM |
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"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vrneoijjt75438@corp.supernews.com...
Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between the
Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.? (Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a flat
plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and of the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a book. The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
Direct contact! What! u are absurd, there's a layer of air between them, do
u know anthing about friction, and the problems in overcoming it!
--
OnCe UpOn a TiMe I UsEd A rEaL PoOtEr, NoW I HaVe To UsE A PeEcEe.
SPOT ThE FidoNet mAiL rEaDeR :o|
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpempr$orh$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Can some one please tell me how something can physically exist with only
2
dimensions, r u scientists deluded or am I missing something? like my
depth
:o)
--
OnCe UpOn a TiMe I UsEd A rEaL PoOtEr, NoW I HaVe To UsE A PeEcEe.
SPOT ThE FidoNet mAiL rEaDeR :o|
.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 02:41:40 PM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpge8t$m1d$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vrneoijjt75438@corp.supernews.com...
Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between the
Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.?
(Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a flat
plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and of the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a book.
The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
Direct contact! What! u are absurd, there's a layer of air between them,
do
u know anthing about friction, and the problems in overcoming it!
The air *is* the atmosphere.
Ignoring perfectly relevant answers: strike two.
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 02:30:20 PM |
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You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance! for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Vince, Stoke on Trent, England.
Now good by and happy hunting down your cul de sac!
--
Wolfric (Woolrich) Seated in Staffordshire from ancient times, and played a
significant roll in the political development of Britain.
The most ancient grant of a coat of arms was:
A chevron between three swans.
The crest is:
An Oak Tree.
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:YzQub.158536$ti.2447464@weber.videotron.net...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpge8t$m1d$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vrneoijjt75438@corp.supernews.com...
Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between the
Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.?
(Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a flat
plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and of the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a book.
The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
Direct contact! What! u are absurd, there's a layer of air between them,
do
u know anthing about friction, and the problems in overcoming it!
The air *is* the atmosphere.
Ignoring perfectly relevant answers: strike two.
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
And who made U MODERATOR? U DIV
.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 03:43:32 PM |
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"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance! for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Add top-posting to the list of annoyances that you display.
Your "ideas" are stimulating in about the same way that
a sticky dorrknob is a pleasant surprise.
[snip]
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
And who made U MODERATOR? U DIV
Add grade-school-cutesy spelling abbreviations to the list
of annoyances.
Hey dolt, I moderate my own reading material. Vacuous
pests end up in the killfile. Others may have more
tolerance.
.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 03:12:41 PM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:YtRub.158547$ti.2491135@weber.videotron.net...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance!
for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in
this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Add top-posting to the list of annoyances that you display.
Your "ideas" are stimulating in about the same way that
a sticky dorrknob is a pleasant surprise.
[snip]
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
And who made U MODERATOR? U DIV
Add grade-school-cutesy spelling abbreviations to the list
of annoyances.
Hey dolt, I moderate my own reading material. Vacuous
pests end up in the killfile. Others may have more
tolerance.
Well you never had anythig constructive to say anyway, so it's a good thing!
--
Wolfric (Woolrich) Seated in Staffordshire from ancient times, and played a
significant roll in the political development of Brittain.
The most ancient grant of a coat of arms was:
A chevron between three swans.
The crest is:
An Oak Tree.
.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 03:36:08 PM |
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In article <bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, OrTiMoN <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote:
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance! for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Does a baseball need a medium to travel through?
--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé
.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 03:10:28 PM |
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X"Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:bpgno8$s1b$2@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
In article <bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, OrTiMoN <LoSt@SeA.CoM>
wrote:
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance!
for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Does a baseball need a medium to travel through?
--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé
Now you are surely not thinking!
--
Wolfric (Woolrich) Seated in Staffordshire from ancient times, and played a
significant roll in the political development of Brittain.
The most ancient grant of a coat of arms was:
A chevron between three swans.
The crest is:
An Oak Tree.
.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 08:51:09 PM |
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In article <bpgps8$e1c$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, OrTiMoN <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote:
X"Gregory L. Hansen" <glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:bpgno8$s1b$2@hood.uits.indiana.edu...
In article <bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, OrTiMoN <LoSt@SeA.CoM>
wrote:
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance!
for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Does a baseball need a medium to travel through?
--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé
Now you are surely not thinking!
You think so? Until the end of the 19th century everyone demanded a
medium for electromagnetic waves to travel through, because if there's a
wave, something must be waving, the argument went. They didn't demand a
medium for a baseball to travel through because the baseball was a chunk
of matter that wasn't waving.
But electrons and other chunks of mass act like waves. Electrons,
neutrons, even Buckyballs have been diffracted and shown other wave
behavior. And electromagnetism demonstrates the photoelectric effect,
Compton scattering, and other particle-like properties. In modern quantum
field theory, fields are the basic unit, and there isn't even a natural
particle interpretation in an arbitrary spacetime. The theory of a
massless field like electromagnetism is almost identical to that of a
massive field like the Dirac field whose exictations are electrons and
positrons. Mass becomes just another parameter that can be varied or sent
to zero as the theorist pleases.
So there's no essential difference between asking which medium propagates
an electromagnetic wave, and which medium propagates a baseball. If you
don't need one for a baseball, you certainly don't need one for a photon.
And in an interesting view, some fans of the aether see massive particles
themselves as vortices or other features in a continuous fluid. I don't
know of any complete and successful theory along those lines, but the idea
isn't inherently flawed, that I know of. But in that line of thinking,
the baseball really would be propagated by a medium, just as light would
be.
--
"Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, then perhaps we shall find the
truth... But let us beware of publishing our dreams before they have been
put to the proof by the waking understanding." -- Friedrich August Kekulé
.
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| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
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| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 05:01:13 PM |
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To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
And Top Posting is a sure sign of problems....
Paul
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance! for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Vince, Stoke on Trent, England.
Now good by and happy hunting down your cul de sac!
--
Wolfric (Woolrich) Seated in Staffordshire from ancient times, and played
a
significant roll in the political development of Britain.
The most ancient grant of a coat of arms was:
A chevron between three swans.
The crest is:
An Oak Tree.
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:YzQub.158536$ti.2447464@weber.videotron.net...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpge8t$m1d$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vrneoijjt75438@corp.supernews.com...
Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between the
Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.?
(Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a
flat
plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and of
the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a
book.
The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
Direct contact! What! u are absurd, there's a layer of air between
them,
do
u know anthing about friction, and the problems in overcoming it!
The air *is* the atmosphere.
Ignoring perfectly relevant answers: strike two.
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
And who made U MODERATOR? U DIV
.
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| User: "OrTiMoN" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 05:50:28 PM |
|
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"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you really
understood my points you would realise!
And Top Posting is a sure sign of problems....
Sure!
Paul
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance!
for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in
this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Vince, Stoke on Trent, England.
Now good by and happy hunting down your cul de sac!
--
Wolfric (Woolrich) Seated in Staffordshire from ancient times, and
played
a
significant roll in the political development of Britain.
The most ancient grant of a coat of arms was:
A chevron between three swans.
The crest is:
An Oak Tree.
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:YzQub.158536$ti.2447464@weber.videotron.net...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpge8t$m1d$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vrneoijjt75438@corp.supernews.com...
Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between
the
Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.?
(Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a
flat
plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and of
the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a
book.
The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
Direct contact! What! u are absurd, there's a layer of air between
them,
do
u know anthing about friction, and the problems in overcoming it!
The air *is* the atmosphere.
Ignoring perfectly relevant answers: strike two.
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
And who made U MODERATOR? U DIV
.
|
|
|
| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 07:02:23 PM |
|
|
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph34c$9th$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you really
understood my points you would realise!
Never B'Leave.... you know, think you know or do not know
but when you B'Leave its religion not science...
So you Think there is "stuff" between all particles
on any scale?
Simple concept is that a vacuum is the space between
any two particles that no other particle exist.. like
the space between two quarks.. a perfect vacuum...
And Top Posting is a sure sign of problems....
Sure!
Yup.....
Paul
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpgnds$6l1$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
You lot have the intellect of buffoons, you seem to think that there
is
nothing in a so called vacuum and that air is not made of a substance!
for
anything to travel i.e. light or radio etc ad infinatum it has to have
a
medium to travel through. I thought I would be stimulating debate in
this
forum but I have been met with abuse and petty argument by people whom
need
to take a cold bath and re-evaluate their place in the human species!
Vince, Stoke on Trent, England.
Now good by and happy hunting down your cul de sac!
--
Wolfric (Woolrich) Seated in Staffordshire from ancient times, and
played
a
significant roll in the political development of Britain.
The most ancient grant of a coat of arms was:
A chevron between three swans.
The crest is:
An Oak Tree.
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:YzQub.158536$ti.2447464@weber.videotron.net...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bpge8t$m1d$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
"will e" <wille1@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:vrneoijjt75438@corp.supernews.com...
Hmmm... The surface of just about anything? The boundary between
the
Pacific
Ocean and the atmosphere? A map showing only Lat. and Long.?
(Topologists
can jump in any time). The two dimensions do not have to be on a
flat
plane,
you just have to define coordinate systems of the "object" and
of
the
observer . Oh here is another one: The space between pages of a
book.
The
pages are in direct contact. Will E.
Direct contact! What! u are absurd, there's a layer of air between
them,
do
u know anthing about friction, and the problems in overcoming it!
The air *is* the atmosphere.
Ignoring perfectly relevant answers: strike two.
Mr. OrTiMoN is rapidly approaching killfiling-threshold.
And who made U MODERATOR? U DIV
.
|
|
|
| User: "OrTiMoN" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 06:39:45 PM |
|
|
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:dPudnYnWbf0-jyGiRVn-tw@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph34c$9th$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you really
understood my points you would realise!
Never B'Leave.... you know, think you know or do not know
but when you B'Leave its religion not science...
So you Think there is "stuff" between all particles
on any scale?
Simple concept is that a vacuum is the space between
any two particles that no other particle exist.. like
the space between two quarks.. a perfect vacuum...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a space
exist without content?
And Top Posting is a sure sign of problems....
Sure!
Yup.....
:)
Paul
.
|
|
|
| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 08:05:04 PM |
|
|
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:dPudnYnWbf0-jyGiRVn-tw@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph34c$9th$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you really
understood my points you would realise!
Never B'Leave.... you know, think you know or do not know
but when you B'Leave its religion not science...
So you Think there is "stuff" between all particles
on any scale?
Simple concept is that a vacuum is the space between
any two particles that no other particle exist.. like
the space between two quarks.. a perfect vacuum...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
And Top Posting is a sure sign of problems....
Sure!
Yup.....
:)
Paul
.
|
|
|
| User: "OrTiMoN" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 08:42:08 PM |
|
|
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:dPudnYnWbf0-jyGiRVn-tw@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph34c$9th$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you
really
understood my points you would realise!
Never B'Leave.... you know, think you know or do not know
but when you B'Leave its religion not science...
So you Think there is "stuff" between all particles
on any scale?
Simple concept is that a vacuum is the space between
any two particles that no other particle exist.. like
the space between two quarks.. a perfect vacuum...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Richard Henry" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 10:10:46 PM |
|
|
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphd6m$va7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a
space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
Vacuum.
And it's vacuum all the way down.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 11:51:48 PM |
|
|
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:e9Xub.18336$cX1.5904@fed1read02...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphd6m$va7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a
space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
Vacuum.
And it's vacuum all the way down.
Well, I postulate that it is Quantum State and is
detectable by effect on particles both locally and
universally. The effect aspect is detected as the
UGC universally and G locally...
The Quantum State is the same exact yet to be defined
finite quantum of unified chaotic energy form that has been
called a singularity, but I term Quantum Point , that
was the source of all matter within this Universe..
The Whole of the universe is that same Quantum Point
(Ciaos Point [Alun Williams], singularity) of the BB
and exists as a inverse tensor relationship (elasticity mode)
between all primordial particles as they are separated by the
induced kinetic energy applied during the inflationary
period.
But nobody believes me.......
Paul R. Mays
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Some where within the Quantum State
Http://Paul.Mays.Com/story.html
http://paul.mays.com/mayday.html
"Now, my suspicion is that the universe is
not only queerer than we suppose, but
queerer than we can suppose... I suspect
that there are more things in heaven and
earth than are dreamed of, in any philosophy"
- J.B.S. Haldane
"The man who cannot occasionally imagine events
and conditions of existence that are contrary to
the causal principle as he knows it will never enrich
his science by the addition of a new idea."
- Max Planck
"Almost all really new ideas have a certain aspect
of foolishness when they are first produced."
- Alfred North
Whitehead
"In questions of science, the authority
of a thousand is not worth the humble
reasoning of a single individual."
- Galileo Galilei
.
|
|
|
| User: "Vince Woolrich" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
21 Nov 2003 11:04:30 PM |
|
|
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:e-CdnTZKH4DlyyGi4p2dnA@giganews.com...
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:e9Xub.18336$cX1.5904@fed1read02...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphd6m$va7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a
space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
Vacuum.
And it's vacuum all the way down.
Well, I postulate that it is Quantum State and is
detectable by effect on particles both locally and
universally. The effect aspect is detected as the
UGC universally and G locally...
The Quantum State is the same exact yet to be defined
finite quantum of unified chaotic energy form that has been
called a singularity, but I term Quantum Point , that
was the source of all matter within this Universe..
The Whole of the universe is that same Quantum Point
(Ciaos Point [Alun Williams], singularity) of the BB
and exists as a inverse tensor relationship (elasticity mode)
between all primordial particles as they are separated by the
induced kinetic energy applied during the inflationary
period.
But nobody believes me.......
Paul R. Mays
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-
Some where within the Quantum State
Http://Paul.Mays.Com/story.html
http://paul.mays.com/mayday.html
So in essence it's all three dimensional!
Sorry for the delay but Bob Dylan was in town and I had to go see him :)
I'm a musician and I've learnt quite a bit (and I do apologise for my out
burst). What got me to post in here was first of all; looking to see if
there was a relationship between the 3 primary notes in the major scale and
the 3 primary colours, and I found that Newton and many more great minds had
contemplated the exact same thing, but lo and behold it led on to my ill
conceived question. What I have realised is that science has to set
boundaries in order to get a workable model.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
22 Nov 2003 01:18:10 AM |
|
|
"Vince Woolrich" <vince@micramaze.com> wrote in message
news:bpmrir$tbt$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:e-CdnTZKH4DlyyGi4p2dnA@giganews.com...
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:e9Xub.18336$cX1.5904@fed1read02...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphd6m$va7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can
a
space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
Vacuum.
And it's vacuum all the way down.
Well, I postulate that it is Quantum State and is
detectable by effect on particles both locally and
universally. The effect aspect is detected as the
UGC universally and G locally...
The Quantum State is the same exact yet to be defined
finite quantum of unified chaotic energy form that has been
called a singularity, but I term Quantum Point , that
was the source of all matter within this Universe..
The Whole of the universe is that same Quantum Point
(Ciaos Point [Alun Williams], singularity) of the BB
and exists as a inverse tensor relationship (elasticity mode)
between all primordial particles as they are separated by the
induced kinetic energy applied during the inflationary
period.
But nobody believes me.......
Paul R. Mays
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-
Some where within the Quantum State
Http://Paul.Mays.Com/story.html
http://paul.mays.com/mayday.html
So in essence it's all three dimensional!
Yup the whole of the universe is 3 spacial dimensions
and 1 etherial..
Sorry for the delay but Bob Dylan was in town and I had to go see him :)
I'm a musician and I've learnt quite a bit (and I do apologise for my out
burst). What got me to post in here was first of all; looking to see if
there was a relationship between the 3 primary notes in the major scale
and
the 3 primary colours, and I found that Newton and many more great minds
had
contemplated the exact same thing, but lo and behold it led on to my ill
conceived question. What I have realised is that science has to set
boundaries in order to get a workable model.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
20 Nov 2003 12:03:28 AM |
|
|
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphd6m$va7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:dPudnYnWbf0-jyGiRVn-tw@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph34c$9th$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you
really
understood my points you would realise!
Never B'Leave.... you know, think you know or do not know
but when you B'Leave its religion not science...
So you Think there is "stuff" between all particles
on any scale?
Simple concept is that a vacuum is the space between
any two particles that no other particle exist.. like
the space between two quarks.. a perfect vacuum...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a
space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
Now that's more like it... That's a question that
has been asked for a very long time and there are
two primary schools of thought ( many secondary
thought )
1 ) Aether.. a 0 viscosity fluid type medium that
is universally dispersed and is undetectable.
2) Nothing.. a ...a... well... nothing
Then there's my postulate but nobody understands
what I'm talking about or they call me bad names
so I won't go into it at the moment, unless you want
to know how the universe really works....
Paul R. Mays
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Some where within the Quantum State
Http://Paul.Mays.Com/story.html
http://paul.mays.com/mayday.html
http://paul.mays.com/rainy.html
"Perhaps the only thing that saves science from
invalid conventional wisdom that becomes
effectively permanent is the presence of mavericks
in every generation - people who keep challenging
convention and thinking up new ideas for the
sheer hell of it or from an innate contrariness."
- Dr. D. M. Raup, Paleontologist, U. Chicago.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Paul R. Mays" |
|
| Title: Re: Dimensions |
19 Nov 2003 11:53:31 PM |
|
|
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bphd6m$va7$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:mMadnfUmmvpXqSGiRVn-vg@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph60p$tcl$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:dPudnYnWbf0-jyGiRVn-tw@giganews.com...
"OrTiMoN" <LoSt@SeA.CoM> wrote in message
news:bph34c$9th$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
"Paul R. Mays" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote in message
news:4YqdnaglTvvMayaiRVn-hQ@giganews.com...
To stimulate debate you really should have a bit
of knowledge of which you speak... You have shown
you do not understand Vacuum, Medium or wave propagation
so you should expect to be responded to based on your
displayed lack of knowledge base...
Thats because I don't believe in absolute vacuum, which if you
really
understood my points you would realise!
Never B'Leave.... you know, think you know or do not know
but when you B'Leave its religion not science...
So you Think there is "stuff" between all particles
on any scale?
Simple concept is that a vacuum is the space between
any two particles that no other particle exist.. like
the space between two quarks.. a perfect vacuum...
But quarks are not a proven fact, and what puzzles me is how can a
space
exist without content?
By definition thats how......
Forget quarks..
Consider two physical particles... any two...
Whats between them? don't say air.. whats between
each molucule of air? don't say smaller particles...
whats between any two of the smallest of small
particles... a purrrrrfect vacuum....
So what's the vacuum composed of then?
Posted the answer in this thread in another response...
.
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