Dirac's aether



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "mountain man"
Date: 20 Aug 2005 09:21:55 AM
Object: Dirac's aether
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm
.

User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 20 Aug 2005 09:32:42 AM
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote in message
news:70HNe.5687$FA3.1010@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
| http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm
"We can now see that we may very well have an aether,
subject to quantum mechanics and conformable to
relativity, provided we are willing to consider a
perfect vacuum as an idealized state, not
attainable in practice. "
Phuckwit.
Androcles.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 25 Aug 2005 09:30:32 PM
Could you move on to learning a second word, Amdro-cheese?
.


User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 20 Aug 2005 11:31:43 AM
mountain man wrote:


http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm

Empirical idiot.
Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether to 1.7x10^(-15) relative
http://fsweb.berry.edu/academic/mans/clane/
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/3/7
No Lorentz violation
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 21 Aug 2005 06:59:16 PM
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:43075AEF.392CD1A8@hate.spam.net...

mountain man wrote:


http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm


Empirical idiot.

"Just because the results happen to be in agreement
with observation does not prove that one's
theory is correct" (Dirac 1987, p. 196).

Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether to 1.7x10^(-15) relative

The above results are for two specific types of devices:
vacuum based and solid-state based interferometers. What
are the results for gas mode interferometers, and why do
they differ from the vacuum and solid state configurations?
Absence of evidence is not equivalent to
evidence of absence. (logic is supposed to
be one of the cornerstones of physics).

http://fsweb.berry.edu/academic/mans/clane/
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/3/7
No Lorentz violation

Contemplate Lorentz's
Aether Theory.
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au/aetherqr.htm
.
User: "Nick"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 21 Aug 2005 07:49:34 PM
I am an Aether man and I'll tell you why.
Dynamic dimensions.
If the time-aether moves at the speed of light you
can catch up to it causing it to go slower and space
to shrink. Sound familiar?
It should its the results of relativity.
How can then emptiness of space-time curve?
You gotta give it substance.
The Aether is the very substance of the universe.
How's that for you?
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 22 Aug 2005 06:25:17 AM
There is the story about seven blind men trying to
agree on the proper description of an elephant by
the sense of touch alone.
Physics is like this elephant and its observers.
It has distinct regions or parts, each of which
is not the same as the unified whole.
The unification of the whole of physics will not
come about except by way of (ie: based upon)
its set of admissable postulates.
Thus my insistence upon the reconsideration
of the aether hypothesis. That's all.
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 22 Aug 2005 05:49:59 AM
In article <xCiOe.7205$FA3.1900@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

There is the story about seven blind men trying to
agree on the proper description of an elephant by
the sense of touch alone.

Physics is like this elephant and its observers.
It has distinct regions or parts, each of which
is not the same as the unified whole.

The unification of the whole of physics will not
come about except by way of (ie: based upon)
its set of admissable postulates.

Thus my insistence upon the reconsideration
of the aether hypothesis. That's all.

The hypothesis was falsified by experiment. Try insisting on something
that works.
Your insistence is similar to insisting that the kitchen
light isn't working because the bulb is burnt out when,
in reality, the power grid is down. You can keep insisting
that your analysis is correct and keep changing light bulbs,
but your kitchen won't be lit until the grid powers back up.
/BAH
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 22 Aug 2005 07:15:21 AM
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:decakn$8nc_003@s808.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <xCiOe.7205$FA3.1900@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

There is the story about seven blind men trying to
agree on the proper description of an elephant by
the sense of touch alone.

Physics is like this elephant and its observers.
It has distinct regions or parts, each of which
is not the same as the unified whole.

The unification of the whole of physics will not
come about except by way of (ie: based upon)
its set of admissable postulates.

Thus my insistence upon the reconsideration
of the aether hypothesis. That's all.


The hypothesis was falsified by experiment.

This is a common misconception. Absence
of evidence is not equivalent to evidence
of absence.
Both Dirac (1951) and Einstein (1920) understood
that the aether hypothesis was not falsified
by experiment.
Dirac:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm
Einstein:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au/aetherqr.htm
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 04:59:53 AM
In article <tljOe.7295$FA3.5370@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:decakn$8nc_003@s808.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <xCiOe.7205$FA3.1900@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

There is the story about seven blind men trying to
agree on the proper description of an elephant by
the sense of touch alone.

Physics is like this elephant and its observers.
It has distinct regions or parts, each of which
is not the same as the unified whole.

The unification of the whole of physics will not
come about except by way of (ie: based upon)
its set of admissable postulates.

Thus my insistence upon the reconsideration
of the aether hypothesis. That's all.


The hypothesis was falsified by experiment.



This is a common misconception. Absence
of evidence is not equivalent to evidence
of absence.

You completely ignored my analogy. I suspect it was on
purpose because it negates your belief that scientists
should spend their precious and limited time on finding
ether rather than working on productive efforts.


Both Dirac (1951) and Einstein (1920) understood
that the aether hypothesis was not falsified
by experiment.


Dirac:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm

Einstein:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html

I can't read those; why are you referring to old papers of
scientists? A lot of work has been done since then, including
man-centuries of kiddies doing the experiment. In all of
that time, there has been no evidence of your ether. Why
don't you also include purple unicorns on your list of
insisting what scientists should do?
Have you ever done the experiment?
/BAH
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 24 Aug 2005 07:16:10 AM
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dees2p$8qk_001@s930.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <tljOe.7295$FA3.5370@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:decakn$8nc_003@s808.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <xCiOe.7205$FA3.1900@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

There is the story about seven blind men trying to
agree on the proper description of an elephant by
the sense of touch alone.

Physics is like this elephant and its observers.
It has distinct regions or parts, each of which
is not the same as the unified whole.

The unification of the whole of physics will not
come about except by way of (ie: based upon)
its set of admissable postulates.

Thus my insistence upon the reconsideration
of the aether hypothesis. That's all.


The hypothesis was falsified by experiment.



This is a common misconception. Absence
of evidence is not equivalent to evidence
of absence.


You completely ignored my analogy.

And you the elephant analogy.

I suspect it was on
purpose because it negates your belief that scientists
should spend their precious and limited time on finding
ether rather than working on productive efforts.

I actually believe that theoretical scientists and
experimental scientists are a different species
of academic hat.

Both Dirac (1951) and Einstein (1920) understood
that the aether hypothesis was not falsified
by experiment.


Dirac:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm

Einstein:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html


I can't read those; why are you referring to old papers of
scientists? A lot of work has been done since then, including
man-centuries of kiddies doing the experiment. In all of
that time, there has been no evidence of your ether.

And I say to you a second time, the absence of evidence
is not equivalent to evidence of absence. This is the
simple logic of the issue, which you (and many others)
apparently fail to fully appreciate.

Why
don't you also include purple unicorns on your list of
insisting what scientists should do?

The only thing that is insistent is logic.

Have you ever done the experiment?

Have you ever gone out fishing
but not caught anything. Have you
ever used a net which is too large?
Today if you use a net with mesh of 10^-14
experimental results show nothing is being caught.
However, from a logical standpoint it says
absolutely nothing about going fishing in 2
years time with a net with a mesh of 10^-16.
What might get caught in that future net is
not in any way constrained by what is currently
happening in experimental physics today.
Absence of evidence is not equivalent
to evidence of absence.
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au
.

User: "Paul Stowe"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 07:52:23 AM
On Tue, 23 Aug 05 09:59:53 GMT,
wrote:

In article <tljOe.7295$FA3.5370@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

<

> wrote in message
news:decakn$8nc_003@s808.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...

In article <xCiOe.7205$FA3.1900@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote:

There is the story about seven blind men trying to
agree on the proper description of an elephant by
the sense of touch alone.

Physics is like this elephant and its observers.
It has distinct regions or parts, each of which
is not the same as the unified whole.

The unification of the whole of physics will not
come about except by way of (ie: based upon)
its set of admissable postulates.

Thus my insistence upon the reconsideration
of the aether hypothesis. That's all.


The hypothesis was falsified by experiment.



This is a common misconception. Absence
of evidence is not equivalent to evidence
of absence.


You completely ignored my analogy.

I'm sorry but, what 'analogy'?

I suspect it was on purpose because it negates your
belief that scientists should spend their precious
and limited time on finding ether rather than working
on productive efforts.

Precious? Fixated on a ring are you? :)

Both Dirac (1951) and Einstein (1920) understood
that the aether hypothesis was not falsified
by experiment.


Dirac:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm

Einstein:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html


I can't read those;

No surprise there...

why are you referring to old papers of scientists?

< A lot of work has been done since then, including

man-centuries of kiddies doing the experiment. In
all of that time, there has been no evidence of your
ether.

Wrong! BTW, what, IS his ether?

Why don't you also include purple unicorns on your
list of insisting what scientists should do?

Have you ever done the experiment?

"Ah arrogance & stupidity all in the same package, how
efficient of you!"
Paul Stowe
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 08:10:25 AM
Luminiferous Ether
http://www.google.com/search?q=aether+site%3Awww.aip.org+update
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Ether.html
Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether
Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether
Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether". He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century, but his remarks have been seized upon ever since,
by various cranks and other ill-informed persons, as evidence that
"gtr is an aether theory".
Special Relativity
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SpecialRelativity.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 09:59:03 PM
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:5fFOe.272193$x96.88866@attbi_s72...

Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and
Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be
said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether". He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century,

...[snip]...
The above is not the complete picture.
Hilman clearly exhibits injudiciousness
for not painting the complete picture.
I know John Baez wouldn't call Einstein "injudicious"
because it is not a very scientific thing to do, especially
on a web page in his personal .edu.domain that is
devoted to Scientifically Inaccurate Claims.
Einstein's comments were not localised to 1924, but
covered a period which commenced as soon as he
attempted to move from special relativity to his general
relativity, and continued throughout his life.
He could adequately deal with a new type of aether
and in many articles he provided limiting specifications
for this new kind of aether - as a postulate.
In other articles and public addresses, he did not
appear to exhibit the characteristics of a person who
was "injudicious"!
See for yourself, here is an earlier address given
on May 5th, 1920, in the University of Leyden.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html
He clearly did not mean that the postulate of aether
in physics MUST be banished, Crackpot Patrolman Sam.
Dirac obviously agreed with Einstein in this seeing he
developed a theory from the postulate, published in 1951.
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au/aetherqr.htm
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 24 Aug 2005 07:06:01 AM
mountain man wrote:

"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:5fFOe.272193$x96.88866@attbi_s72...


Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and
Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be
said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether". He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century,



..[snip]...


The above is not the complete picture.
Hilman clearly exhibits injudiciousness
for not painting the complete picture.

I know John Baez wouldn't call Einstein "injudicious"
because it is not a very scientific thing to do, especially
on a web page in his personal .edu.domain that is
devoted to Scientifically Inaccurate Claims.


Einstein's comments were not localised to 1924, but
covered a period which commenced as soon as he
attempted to move from special relativity to his general
relativity, and continued throughout his life.

He could adequately deal with a new type of aether
and in many articles he provided limiting specifications
for this new kind of aether - as a postulate.

In other articles and public addresses, he did not
appear to exhibit the characteristics of a person who
was "injudicious"!

See for yourself, here is an earlier address given
on May 5th, 1920, in the University of Leyden.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html



He clearly did not mean that the postulate of aether
in physics MUST be banished, Crackpot Patrolman Sam.

Dirac obviously agreed with Einstein in this seeing he
developed a theory from the postulate, published in 1951.




http://www.aip.org/pnu/1993/split/pnu143-4.htm
Number 143 (Story #4), September 9, 1993 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein
THE STANDARD MODEL (circa 1993) , consisting of quarks and leptons
interacting via force- carrying bosons, is not the first theory of
everything. Berkeley science historian J.L. Heilbron describes two
others. The Napoleonic standard model (circa 1800), based on the work
of Coulomb, Laplace, Poisson, Ampere, and others, sought to make
physics more like astronomy. According to Heilbron, they especially
liked gravity's straightforward dependence on the inverse square of the
distance between interacting bodies. The primary ingredients in the
Napoleonic model were the electrical fluids (positive and negative),
magnetic fluids (north and south), heat fluid (caloric), light, and the
newly discovered infrared radiation. This model was done in partly by
Fresnel's wave theory of light and Fourier's work on heat. Heilbron's
other example, the Victorian standard model (circa 1890), based on the
work of Maxwell, Lord Kelvin, Joule, Larmor and others, synthesized
electricity, magnetism, and light, and pictured heat as being related
to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 24 Aug 2005 07:33:25 AM
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:JoZOe.276896$_o.124691@attbi_s71...

mountain man wrote:

"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:5fFOe.272193$x96.88866@attbi_s72...


Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and
Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be
said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that
sense,
to involve a kind of "aether". He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century,



..[snip]...


The above is not the complete picture.
Hilman clearly exhibits injudiciousness
for not painting the complete picture.

I know John Baez wouldn't call Einstein "injudicious"
because it is not a very scientific thing to do, especially
on a web page in his personal .edu.domain that is
devoted to Scientifically Inaccurate Claims.


Einstein's comments were not localised to 1924, but
covered a period which commenced as soon as he
attempted to move from special relativity to his general
relativity, and continued throughout his life.

He could adequately deal with a new type of aether
and in many articles he provided limiting specifications
for this new kind of aether - as a postulate.

In other articles and public addresses, he did not
appear to exhibit the characteristics of a person who
was "injudicious"!

See for yourself, here is an earlier address given
on May 5th, 1920, in the University of Leyden.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html



He clearly did not mean that the postulate of aether
in physics MUST be banished, Crackpot Patrolman Sam.

Dirac obviously agreed with Einstein in this seeing he
developed a theory from the postulate, published in 1951.






http://www.aip.org/pnu/1993/split/pnu143-4.htm
Number 143 (Story #4), September 9, 1993 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben
Stein

THE STANDARD MODEL (circa 1993) , consisting of quarks and leptons
interacting via force- carrying bosons, is not the first theory of
everything. Berkeley science historian J.L. Heilbron describes two
others. The Napoleonic standard model (circa 1800), based on the work
of Coulomb, Laplace, Poisson, Ampere, and others, sought to make
physics more like astronomy. According to Heilbron, they especially
liked gravity's straightforward dependence on the inverse square of the
distance between interacting bodies. The primary ingredients in the
Napoleonic model were the electrical fluids (positive and negative),
magnetic fluids (north and south), heat fluid (caloric), light, and the
newly discovered infrared radiation. This model was done in partly by
Fresnel's wave theory of light and Fourier's work on heat. Heilbron's
other example, the Victorian standard model (circa 1890), based on the
work of Maxwell, Lord Kelvin, Joule, Larmor and others, synthesized
electricity, magnetism, and light, and pictured heat as being related
to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)

I would not be contemplating a parallel between
either Einstein or Dirac and "Victorian thinking",
would you?
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au
.
User: "Nick"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 25 Aug 2005 10:13:11 PM
Pete, even a blind man can see the Aether!
It is the very substance of the universe.
.
User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 26 Aug 2005 10:18:37 AM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125025991.424100.305350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Pete, even a blind man can see the Aether!

How?

It is the very substance of the universe.

Prove it.
.
User: "Nick"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 27 Aug 2005 12:54:28 AM
OK.
I can see that its true!!!
.


User: "Robert Kolker"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 26 Aug 2005 10:40:17 AM
Nick wrote:

Pete, even a blind man can see the Aether!

It is the very substance of the universe.

Really? Then why can it not be detected?
Bob Kolker


.





User: "Paul Stowe"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 06:17:16 PM
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:10:25 GMT, Sam Wormley <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote:


Luminiferous Ether
http://www.google.com/search?q=aether+site%3Awww.aip.org+update

Hmmm,
http://www.aip.org/pnu/2001/556.html
is evidence for aether...
http://www.aip.org/pnu/2001/split/556-2.html
is not relevant to any Lorentz Covariant aether models...

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Ether.html

Is as much of a red-herring as Unc'Al's ranting...

Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether

Care to supply a valid name & password? Otherwise, a useless
reference.

Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether". He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century, but his remarks have been seized upon ever since,
by various cranks and other ill-informed persons, as evidence that
"gtr is an aether theory".

http://www.cox-internet.com/hermital/book/holoprt2-4.htm
http://itis.volta.alessandria.it/episteme/ep3-24.htm

Special Relativity
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SpecialRelativity.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html

Totally irrelevant to the issue...
Now Sammy, if you're going to revert back to your mindless robo-droning
ways, your request to "bury the hatchet" would seem to be duplicitous
don't you think?
Paul Stowe
.









User: "Paul Stowe"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 20 Aug 2005 11:48:20 AM
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:31:43 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

mountain man wrote:


http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm


Empirical idiot.

Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether to 1.7x10^(-15) relative

http://fsweb.berry.edu/academic/mans/clane/
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/3/7
No Lorentz violation

Uncle Al is the 'self-imposed' ignorant!
(but certainly not stupid)
There is a clear difference between not necessary
for inclusion in an evaluation and non-existence.
The above references are, as always, the formaer
and have NOTHING! whatsoever to do with the latter.
Paul Stowe
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 21 Aug 2005 06:59:17 PM
"Paul Stowe" <ps@acompletelyjunkaddress.net> wrote in message
news:ajmeg1hgctl6h4c0ruoagn4gumtvv8uj0p@4ax.com...

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 09:31:43 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net>
wrote:

mountain man wrote:


http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm


Empirical idiot.

Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether to 1.7x10^(-15) relative

http://fsweb.berry.edu/academic/mans/clane/
http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/3/7
No Lorentz violation


Uncle Al is the 'self-imposed' ignorant!
(but certainly not stupid)

There is a clear difference between not necessary
for inclusion in an evaluation and non-existence.

When Einstein considered special relativity, and the
simplistic relationship between intertial frames of reference
he did not need to consider the aether postulate.
Ten years down the track, when he then expanded
his consideration to the more general concept of non
inertial frames and gravitation, he realised that the
aether postulate was still viable.

The above references are, as always, the formaer
and have NOTHING! whatsoever to do with the latter.

Paul Stowe

.
User: "tj Frazir"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 09:37:42 AM
Dark Energy is 0 wavelength at c .
Our visible universe is like one atom in the sea . None of the photons
from outside the universe can be detected at our speeds.
Evry photon from outside the visible univers will pass us a c but with
no wavelenth .
Hubble constant in einsteins head predicted Dark Energy.
The atoms orbiting parts slice an empty place as they take up space and
move taking up more space at c .
The void matter cuts into space is a low energy presure gravity is
the energy slope between dark energy and nothingness.

.




User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Dirac's aether 23 Aug 2005 08:31:53 AM
mountain man wrote:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm


Luminiferous Ether
http://www.google.com/search?q=aether+site%3Awww.aip.org+update
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Ether.html
Physics Today 57(7) 40 (2004)
http://physicstoday.org/vol-57/iss-7/p40.shtml
No aether
Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether
Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether". He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century, but his remarks have been seized upon ever since,
by various cranks and other ill-informed persons, as evidence that
"gtr is an aether theory".
Special Relativity
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SpecialRelativity.html
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Injudiciousness, Einstein and Scientifically Inaccurate Claims 23 Aug 2005 09:59:04 PM
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:dzFOe.274637$_o.180950@attbi_s71...

mountain man wrote:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm

....[trim]...

Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and
Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be
said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether".

The above is not the complete picture.
Hilman clearly exhibits injudiciousness
for not painting the complete picture.
I know John Baez wouldn't call Einstein "injudicious"
because it is not a very scientific thing to do, especially
on a web page in his personal .edu.domain that is
devoted to Scientifically Inaccurate Claims.
Einstein's comments were not localised to 1924, but
covered a period which commenced as soon as he
attempted to move from special relativity to his general
relativity, and continued throughout his life.
He could adequately deal with a new type of aether
and in many articles he provided limiting specifications
for this new kind of aether.
In other articles and public addresses, he did not
appear to exhibit the characteristics of a person who
was "injudicious"!
See for yourself, here is an earlier address given
on May 5th, 1920, in the University of Leyden.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html

He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century, but his remarks have been seized upon ever since,
by various cranks and other ill-informed persons, as evidence that
"gtr is an aether theory".

He clearly did not mean that the postulate of aether
in physics MUST be banished, Crackpot Patrolman Sam.
Dirac obviously agreed with Einstein in this seeing he
developed a theory from the postulate, published in 1951.
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au
.
User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Injudiciousness, Einstein and Scientifically Inaccurate Claims 24 Aug 2005 07:06:50 AM
mountain man wrote:

"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:dzFOe.274637$_o.180950@attbi_s71...

mountain man wrote:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm



...[trim]...


Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and
Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be
said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that sense,
to involve a kind of "aether".




The above is not the complete picture.
Hilman clearly exhibits injudiciousness
for not painting the complete picture.

I know John Baez wouldn't call Einstein "injudicious"
because it is not a very scientific thing to do, especially
on a web page in his personal .edu.domain that is
devoted to Scientifically Inaccurate Claims.


Einstein's comments were not localised to 1924, but
covered a period which commenced as soon as he
attempted to move from special relativity to his general
relativity, and continued throughout his life.

He could adequately deal with a new type of aether
and in many articles he provided limiting specifications
for this new kind of aether.

In other articles and public addresses, he did not
appear to exhibit the characteristics of a person who
was "injudicious"!

See for yourself, here is an earlier address given
on May 5th, 1920, in the University of Leyden.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html




He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century, but his remarks have been seized upon ever since,
by various cranks and other ill-informed persons, as evidence that
"gtr is an aether theory".



He clearly did not mean that the postulate of aether
in physics MUST be banished, Crackpot Patrolman Sam.

Dirac obviously agreed with Einstein in this seeing he
developed a theory from the postulate, published in 1951.




http://www.aip.org/pnu/1993/split/pnu143-4.htm
Number 143 (Story #4), September 9, 1993 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein
THE STANDARD MODEL (circa 1993) , consisting of quarks and leptons
interacting via force- carrying bosons, is not the first theory of
everything. Berkeley science historian J.L. Heilbron describes two
others. The Napoleonic standard model (circa 1800), based on the work
of Coulomb, Laplace, Poisson, Ampere, and others, sought to make
physics more like astronomy. According to Heilbron, they especially
liked gravity's straightforward dependence on the inverse square of the
distance between interacting bodies. The primary ingredients in the
Napoleonic model were the electrical fluids (positive and negative),
magnetic fluids (north and south), heat fluid (caloric), light, and the
newly discovered infrared radiation. This model was done in partly by
Fresnel's wave theory of light and Fourier's work on heat. Heilbron's
other example, the Victorian standard model (circa 1890), based on the
work of Maxwell, Lord Kelvin, Joule, Larmor and others, synthesized
electricity, magnetism, and light, and pictured heat as being related
to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)
.
User: "mountain man"

Title: Re: Injudiciousness, Einstein and Scientifically Inaccurate Claims 24 Aug 2005 07:33:26 AM
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:upZOe.276898$_o.49802@attbi_s71...

mountain man wrote:

"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:dzFOe.274637$_o.180950@attbi_s71...

mountain man wrote:

http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_8.htm



...[trim]...


Some Scientifically Inaccurate Claims Concerning Cosmology and
Relativity
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/wrong.html#aether

Albert Einstein, in his essay On the Aether (1924), made some
injudicious comments to the effect that relativity theory could be
said
to ascribe physical properties to spacetime itself, and in that
sense,
to involve a kind of "aether".




The above is not the complete picture.
Hilman clearly exhibits injudiciousness
for not painting the complete picture.

I know John Baez wouldn't call Einstein "injudicious"
because it is not a very scientific thing to do, especially
on a web page in his personal .edu.domain that is
devoted to Scientifically Inaccurate Claims.


Einstein's comments were not localised to 1924, but
covered a period which commenced as soon as he
attempted to move from special relativity to his general
relativity, and continued throughout his life.

He could adequately deal with a new type of aether
and in many articles he provided limiting specifications
for this new kind of aether.

In other articles and public addresses, he did not
appear to exhibit the characteristics of a person who
was "injudicious"!

See for yourself, here is an earlier address given
on May 5th, 1920, in the University of Leyden.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/aether_0.html




He clearly did not mean the kind of
"aether" which had been envisioned by Maxwell and others in the
nineteenth century, but his remarks have been seized upon ever since,
by various cranks and other ill-informed persons, as evidence that
"gtr is an aether theory".



He clearly did not mean that the postulate of aether
in physics MUST be banished, Crackpot Patrolman Sam.

Dirac obviously agreed with Einstein in this seeing he
developed a theory from the postulate, published in 1951.






http://www.aip.org/pnu/1993/split/pnu143-4.htm
Number 143 (Story #4), September 9, 1993 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben
Stein

THE STANDARD MODEL (circa 1993) , consisting of quarks and leptons
interacting via force- carrying bosons, is not the first theory of
everything. Berkeley science historian J.L. Heilbron describes two
others. The Napoleonic standard model (circa 1800), based on the work
of Coulomb, Laplace, Poisson, Ampere, and others, sought to make
physics more like astronomy. According to Heilbron, they especially
liked gravity's straightforward dependence on the inverse square of the
distance between interacting bodies. The primary ingredients in the
Napoleonic model were the electrical fluids (positive and negative),
magnetic fluids (north and south), heat fluid (caloric), light, and the
newly discovered infrared radiation. This model was done in partly by
Fresnel's wave theory of light and Fourier's work on heat. Heilbron's
other example, the Victorian standard model (circa 1890), based on the
work of Maxwell, Lord Kelvin, Joule, Larmor and others, synthesized
electricity, magnetism, and light, and pictured heat as being related
to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)

I would not be contemplating a parallel between
either Einstein or Dirac and "Victorian thinking",
would you?
--
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
OZ
www.mountainman.com.au
.

User: "Robert Kolker"

Title: Re: Injudiciousness, Einstein and Scientifically Inaccurate Claims 24 Aug 2005 07:52:43 AM
Sam Wormley wrote:

to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)

In one of Maxwell's treatises on electrodynamics he pictures space
filled with hex nuts and teeny tiny idler wheels.
Bob Kolker
.
User: "Paul Stowe"

Title: Re: Injudiciousness, Einstein and Scientifically Inaccurate Claims 24 Aug 2005 07:08:01 PM
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 08:52:43 -0400, Robert Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:

Sam Wormley wrote:

to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)


In one of Maxwell's treatises on electrodynamics he pictures
space filled with hex nuts and teeny tiny idler wheels.

This is pure ***** (and YOU must be terribly STUPID! to keep
repeating this myth).
Show us ANY! and I mean ANY! mention by Maxwell of a/any Hex Nuts.
Any referencable quote to ANY! of his writings will be acceptable.
While this may still be beyond your conprehension skills, see:
http://www.nps.gov/depo/kidsactivities/insertcopy.pdf
For the rest of the readers, Maxwell drew a hexagonal pattern for
the cellular lattice structure of his proposal for (vortex-sponge)
the spacial medium. For explicit fluidic examples of such
structures see:
http://www.cfdlab.ae.utexas.edu/~peterson/masters_final.pdf
(See Figure 1.2 page 12)
http://www.newton.cam.ac.uk/webseminars/pg+ws/2005/pfd/pfdw01/0801/hoyle1/all.pdf
To Kolker, why it seems that your powers of retension are
rarer than a politician's honesty, even YOU! should have
gotten this thru your thick skull by now. I await you showing
us Maxwell's mention of "Hex Nuts"...
As for idler wheels, Maxwell said:
"I have found great difficulty in conceiving of the existence
of vortices in a medium, side by side, revolving in the same
direction about parallel axes. The contiguous portions of
consecutive vortices must be moving in opposite directions;
and it is difficult to understand how the motion of one part
of the medium can coexist with, and even produce, an opposite
motion of a part in contact with it.
The only conception which has at all aided me in conceiving
of this kind of motion is that of the vortices being separated
by a layer of particles, revolving each on its own axis in the
opposite direction to that of the vortices, so that the
contiguous surfaces of the particles and of the vortices have
the same motion.
In mechanism, when two wheels are intended to revolve in the
same direction, a wheel is placed between them so as to be in
gear with both, and this-wheel is called an "idle wheel." The
hypothesis about the vortices which I have to suggest is that
a layer of particles, ACTING AS idle wheels, is interposed
between each vortex and the next, so that each vortex has a
tendency to make the neighbouring vortices revolve in the same
direction with itself."
and while it seems that you cannot comprehend A-N-A-L-O-G-I-E-S
I think other, more reasonably minded people can!
Paul Stowe

Bob Kolker

.
User: "Paul Stowe"

Title: Re: Injudiciousness, Einstein and Scientifically Inaccurate Claims 25 Aug 2005 09:22:16 PM
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:08:01 GMT, Paul Stowe <ps@acompletelyjunkaddress.net>
wrote:

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 08:52:43 -0400, Robert Kolker <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:

Sam Wormley wrote:

to the motion of molecules. The Victorians were interested in studying
the hypothetical aether continuum, whose mechanical properties could
presumably be compared to those of springs, flywheels, and rubber
bands. But Victorian thinking, like Napoleonic thinking, collapsed when
it outran experimental results. (SLAC Beam Line, Summer 1993.)


In one of Maxwell's treatises on electrodynamics he pictures
space filled with hex nuts and teeny tiny idler wheels.


This is pure ***** (and YOU must be terribly STUPID! to keep
repeating this myth).

Show us ANY! and I mean ANY! mention by Maxwell of a/any Hex Nuts.
Any referencable quote to ANY! of his writings will be acceptable.

While this may still be beyond your conprehension skills, see:

http://www.nps.gov/depo/kidsactivities/insertcopy.pdf

For the rest of the readers, Maxwell drew a hexagonal pattern for
the cellular lattice structure of his proposal for (vortex-sponge)
the spacial medium. For explicit fluidic examples of such
structures see:

http://www.cfdlab.ae.utexas.edu/~peterson/masters_final.pdf
(See Figure 1.2 page 12)

http://www.newton.cam.ac.uk/webseminars/pg+ws/2005/pfd/pfdw01/0801/hoyle1/all.pdf

To Kolker, why it seems that your powers of retension are
rarer than a politician's honesty, even YOU! should have
gotten this thru your thick skull by now. I await you showing
us Maxwell's mention of "Hex Nuts"...

Hmmm, still waiting Bobby... It seems the cat suddenly got your
tongue & you're all choked up with a furball...

As for idler wheels, Maxwell said:

"I have found great difficulty in conceiving of the existence
of vortices in a medium, side by side, revolving in the same
direction about parallel axes. The contiguous portions of
consecutive vortices must be moving in opposite directions;
and it is difficult to understand how the motion of one part
of the medium can coexist with, and even produce, an opposite
motion of a part in contact with it.
The only conception which has at all aided me in conceiving
of this kind of motion is that of the vortices being separated
by a layer of particles, revolving each on its own axis in the
opposite direction to that of the vortices, so that the
contiguous surfaces of the particles and of the vortices have
the same motion.
In mechanism, when two wheels are intended to revolve in the
same direction, a wheel is placed between them so as to be in
gear with both, and this-wheel is called an "idle wheel." The
hypothesis about the vortices which I have to suggest is that
a layer of particles, ACTING AS idle wheels, is interposed
between each vortex and the next, so that each vortex has a
tendency to make the neighbouring vortices revolve in the same
direction with itself."

and while it seems that you cannot comprehend A-N-A-L-O-G-I-E-S
I think other, more reasonably minded people can!

Paul Stowe
.







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