| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Pentcho Valev" |
| Date: |
08 Aug 2005 11:23:32 AM |
| Object: |
Einstein tests his zombis' loyalty and love |
Consider the rotating disk experiment described by Einstein in Chapter
23 in his "Relativity". Assume that, prior to rotating (the disk is
still immobile in the non-rotating Galileian system K), the periphery
of the disk is covered by exactly 1000 standard measuring-rods so that
the length of the periphery is measured to be 1000. Then, with the rods
still fixed on its periphery, the disk starts rotating. While it is
rotating, Einstein says:
"If the observer applies his standard measuring-rod.... tangentially to
the edge of the disc, then, as judged from the Galileian system, the
length of the rod will be less than 1..."
This implies that, as judged from the Galileian system, the length of
both the 1000 rods and the periphery they cover will be measured to be
less than 1000, e.g. 999. At this very moment however Einstein forces
the zombi to immediately forget the implication and accept, with
enthusiasm and love, the opposite assertion. From now on the zombi
should repeat with Einstein that, as judged from the Galileian system,
the length of the periphery is GREATER than 1000. The manifestation of
love is essential. Loving zombis will become professors. The
indifferent may not become professors.
Pentcho Valev
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| User: "Bill Hobba" |
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| Title: Re: Einstein tests his zombis' loyalty and love |
08 Aug 2005 06:04:17 PM |
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"Pentcho Valev" <pvalev@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123518212.952030.290970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Consider the rotating disk experiment described by Einstein in Chapter
23 in his "Relativity". Assume that, prior to rotating (the disk is
still immobile in the non-rotating Galileian system K), the periphery
of the disk is covered by exactly 1000 standard measuring-rods so that
the length of the periphery is measured to be 1000. Then, with the rods
still fixed on its periphery, the disk starts rotating. While it is
rotating, Einstein says:
"If the observer applies his standard measuring-rod.... tangentially to
the edge of the disc, then, as judged from the Galileian system, the
length of the rod will be less than 1..."
This implies that, as judged from the Galileian system, the length of
both the 1000 rods and the periphery they cover will be measured to be
less than 1000, e.g. 999.
No they will not - the rods will no longer cover the periphery because space
is now non Euclidian and the periphery is continuous while the rods have
spaces in between.
At this very moment however Einstein forces
the zombi to immediately forget the implication and accept, with
enthusiasm and love, the opposite assertion.
At this very moment Pentcho Valev demonstrates he is an idiot.
Bill
From now on the zombi
should repeat with Einstein that, as judged from the Galileian system,
the length of the periphery is GREATER than 1000. The manifestation of
love is essential. Loving zombis will become professors. The
indifferent may not become professors.
Pentcho Valev
.
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| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
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| Title: Re: Einstein tests his zombis' loyalty and love |
08 Aug 2005 12:09:37 PM |
|
|
"Pentcho Valev" <pvalev@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123518212.952030.290970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Consider the rotating disk experiment described by Einstein in Chapter
| 23 in his "Relativity".
Use a Sagnac ring.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci.physics.relativity/browse_frm/thread/43ef355d412abc00/ec05c9365f4dd404?lnk=st&q=Sagnac+Androcles&rnum=1&hl=en#ec05c9365f4dd404
Androcles
Assume that, prior to rotating (the disk is
| still immobile in the non-rotating Galileian system K), the periphery
| of the disk is covered by exactly 1000 standard measuring-rods so that
| the length of the periphery is measured to be 1000. Then, with the
rods
| still fixed on its periphery, the disk starts rotating. While it is
| rotating, Einstein says:
|
| "If the observer applies his standard measuring-rod.... tangentially
to
| the edge of the disc, then, as judged from the Galileian system, the
| length of the rod will be less than 1..."
|
| This implies that, as judged from the Galileian system, the length of
| both the 1000 rods and the periphery they cover will be measured to be
| less than 1000, e.g. 999. At this very moment however Einstein forces
| the zombi to immediately forget the implication and accept, with
| enthusiasm and love, the opposite assertion. From now on the zombi
| should repeat with Einstein that, as judged from the Galileian system,
| the length of the periphery is GREATER than 1000. The manifestation of
| love is essential. Loving zombis will become professors. The
| indifferent may not become professors.
|
| Pentcho Valev
|
.
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| User: "Jan Bielawski" |
|
| Title: Re: Einstein tests his zombis' loyalty and love |
09 Aug 2005 01:38:31 AM |
|
|
Pentcho Valev wrote:
Consider the rotating disk experiment described by Einstein in Chapter
23 in his "Relativity". Assume that, prior to rotating (the disk is
still immobile in the non-rotating Galileian system K), the periphery
of the disk is covered by exactly 1000 standard measuring-rods so that
the length of the periphery is measured to be 1000. Then, with the rods
still fixed on its periphery, the disk starts rotating. While it is
rotating, Einstein says:
"If the observer applies his standard measuring-rod.... tangentially to
the edge of the disc, then, as judged from the Galileian system, the
length of the rod will be less than 1..."
This implies that, as judged from the Galileian system, the length of
both the 1000 rods and the periphery they cover will be measured to be
less than 1000, e.g. 999.
No, remember the rods are not glued to the disc - they are just lying
along the edge. This is crucial. When the disc starts rotating, then -
according to the stationary observer - the rods Lorentz-contract but
the disc circumference *doesn't*. That's because any portion of the
disc near the edge that wants to Lorentz-contract is *prevented* from
doing so by the bulk of the disc surrounding the disc portion in
question. (Assuming the disc is very rigid in the radial direction
which is clearly what Einstein had in mind.)
Thus the entire disc develops a certain amount of internal strain but
does not change the circumference. The rods on the other hand are not
glued to the disc and thus are free to Lorentz-contract which is what
they do.
Therefore, *gaps* develop between the rods and what the stationary
observer measures when he investigates the rotating rods is: 1000 rods
+ gaps = more than 1000 units of length.
Of course according to *his own* rods (which are stationary) the
circumference remains 1000.
Finally, to complete the picture, the observer sitting on the disc edge
and rotating with it will claim that the presence of gaps between his
rods is due to the disc itself stretching circumferentially while -
according to him - the rods obviously do not shorten. (The disc is
stretching according to him because portions of the disc from his point
of view accelerate at different times which results in pulling it
apart. If you are familiar with the "Bell spaceship paradox" then this
is precisely what's happening here).
So both observers agree the disc develops some strain and that gaps
develop although they give different reasons for those.
Notice the silent assumption in all this of the disc being somewhat
elastic in the circumferential direction. If it was perfectly rigid
then any rotation would cause it to crack along a more or less radial
direction.
--
Jan Bielawski
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Einstein tests his zombis' loyalty and love |
09 Aug 2005 07:01:48 AM |
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The fallacy is that the disc must be elastic. If it were not the speed
of sound would be infinite (>c). All the fallacies of special
relativity arise from the fact that material is assumed to be inelasic
for the purposes of the fallacy. Inelasticity cannot be relativistic,
for fairly obvious reasons.
Compared with c sound speeds and elasticities are rather low. Armor
piercing by projectiles is acieved by exceeding the speed of sound in a
tank wall.
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