Science > Physics > Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible??
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Radium" |
| Date: |
04 Jun 2007 07:18:06 PM |
| Object: |
Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
Hi:
I am again going to ask a theoretical question. I apologize deeply if
anyone is annoyed.
I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
this electric current is 10^-4 volt [now that's some low-voltage!].
For obvious safety reasons, the path of the current is from the source
to my right hand, to my right arm, to the conductor that's connected
to the ground.
What symptoms would I experience as a result of this electric shock as
the amperage starts of at 0.001 and then smoothly climbs to 0.02 in
about 5 seconds, and then plunges back to 0.001 amps after an
additional 5 seconds pass?
Here is my guess. At 0.001 amps, I feel vibrations bounce in my right
hand up my right arms. As the amperage climbs, the vibrations start to
feel stronger. As the current's strength further increases, these
sensations start to get sharply painful and the muscles from my right
hand to my right arm start stiffen [due to electromuscular
stimulation]. At 0.02 amps, my right hand is stuck to the source and I
cannot move the muscles from my right hand to my right arm. The
effects of the electric shock are most severe in my right hand [where
the current enters] and mildest on my upper right arm [where the
current exits]. As the current's strength decreases, the muscles from
my right hand to right arm loosen, the pain mitigates, and the
vibrations start to weaken. Then, back to 0.001 amps [threshold of
perception]!
Do I guess right?
Thanks,
Radium
P.S. Is it really possible to have the low-voltage, strong-amperage
current I described? If not, why?
.
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| User: "CWatters" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
05 Jun 2007 09:24:26 AM |
|
|
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
this electric current is 10^-4 volt
My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
05 Jun 2007 10:15:03 AM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
this electric current is 10^-4 volt
My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
05 Jun 2007 10:37:30 PM |
|
|
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|
|> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|
|> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|
| Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
| indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
| less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|
| By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
.
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| User: "Don Kelly" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
05 Jun 2007 11:32:29 PM |
|
|
<phil-news-nospam@ipal.net> wrote in message
news:f45a5q21dot@news3.newsguy.com...
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag CWatters
<colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|
|> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|
|> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If
a
|> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best
be
|> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|
| Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
| indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
| less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|
| By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below
|
| first name lower case at ipal.net /
|
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
5ma is considered a safe level (0.5% probability of let-go for children if I
remember correctly- too lazy to go down the hall to get the data from
EPRI). Now 100ma is a problem.
--
Don Kelly
remove the X to answer
----------------------------
P.S. Why would one feed a 60 watt bulb from a 200KV transformer- 10 million
such bulbs in parallel is more likely?
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
05 Jun 2007 11:05:03 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|
|> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|
|> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|
| Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
| indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
| less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|
| By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
out 18 kV at multiple amps.
My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
barely.
I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
06 Jun 2007 07:20:18 AM |
|
|
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |
|> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |
|> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |
|> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |
|> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|
|> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|
| Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
| out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|
| My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
| barely.
|
| I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
06 Jun 2007 09:35:03 AM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |
|> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |
|> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |
|> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |
|> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|
|> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|
| Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
| out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|
| My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
| barely.
|
| I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
What's your point?
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
07 Jun 2007 07:39:39 AM |
|
|
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |
|> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |
|> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |
|> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |
|> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |
|> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |
|> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |
|> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> | barely.
|> |
|> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|
|> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|
| What's your point?
200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
07 Jun 2007 09:05:03 AM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |
|> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |
|> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |
|> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |
|> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |
|> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |
|> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |
|> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> | barely.
|> |
|> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|
|> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|
| What's your point?
200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
What's your point?
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
07 Jun 2007 09:30:57 PM |
|
|
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |> |
|> |> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |> |
|> |> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> |> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |> |
|> |> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> |> | barely.
|> |> |
|> |> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|> |
|> |> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|> |
|> | What's your point?
|
|> 200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
|> a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
|
| What's your point?
If you haven't picked up on it by now, something tells me this thread is
like to go on for a dozen more iterations, or worse.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
07 Jun 2007 10:05:02 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |> |
|> |> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |> |
|> |> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> |> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |> |
|> |> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> |> | barely.
|> |> |
|> |> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|> |
|> |> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|> |
|> | What's your point?
|
|> 200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
|> a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
|
| What's your point?
If you haven't picked up on it by now, something tells me this thread is
like to go on for a dozen more iterations, or worse.
Well, let's see...
My original post was about what research shows to be the current levels
for the threshold of sensation and the level of definite discomfort for
60 Hz voltages of less than 1000V.
Since then you've made three inane posts about making one's self a
part of a 200 kV circuit at a current at the discomfort level.
What's your point other than you can't seem to convert amps into
microamps?
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
|
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
08 Jun 2007 08:13:23 AM |
|
|
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> |> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> |> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> |> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> |> |> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> |> |> | barely.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|> |> |
|> |> |> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|> |> |
|> |> | What's your point?
|> |
|> |> 200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
|> |> a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
|> |
|> | What's your point?
|
|> If you haven't picked up on it by now, something tells me this thread is
|> like to go on for a dozen more iterations, or worse.
|
| Well, let's see...
|
| My original post was about what research shows to be the current levels
| for the threshold of sensation and the level of definite discomfort for
| 60 Hz voltages of less than 1000V.
|
| Since then you've made three inane posts about making one's self a
| part of a 200 kV circuit at a current at the discomfort level.
But not lethal.
| What's your point other than you can't seem to convert amps into
| microamps?
I converted _from_ microamps.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
08 Jun 2007 10:15:03 AM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> |> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> |> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> |> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> |> |> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> |> |> | barely.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|> |> |
|> |> |> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|> |> |
|> |> | What's your point?
|> |
|> |> 200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
|> |> a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
|> |
|> | What's your point?
|
|> If you haven't picked up on it by now, something tells me this thread is
|> like to go on for a dozen more iterations, or worse.
|
| Well, let's see...
|
| My original post was about what research shows to be the current levels
| for the threshold of sensation and the level of definite discomfort for
| 60 Hz voltages of less than 1000V.
|
| Since then you've made three inane posts about making one's self a
| part of a 200 kV circuit at a current at the discomfort level.
But not lethal.
I never said it was.
Are you a masochist?
Do you enjoy pain?
What's your point?
| What's your point other than you can't seem to convert amps into
| microamps?
I converted _from_ microamps.
Good for you.
Now, do you understand the difference between "painful" and "lethal"?
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
09 Jun 2007 04:21:44 PM |
|
|
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> |> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> |> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> |> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> |> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> |> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> |> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> |> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> |> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> |> |> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> |> |> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> |> |> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> |> |> |> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> |> |> |> | barely.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | What's your point?
|> |> |
|> |> |> 200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
|> |> |> a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
|> |> |
|> |> | What's your point?
|> |
|> |> If you haven't picked up on it by now, something tells me this thread is
|> |> like to go on for a dozen more iterations, or worse.
|> |
|> | Well, let's see...
|> |
|> | My original post was about what research shows to be the current levels
|> | for the threshold of sensation and the level of definite discomfort for
|> | 60 Hz voltages of less than 1000V.
|> |
|> | Since then you've made three inane posts about making one's self a
|> | part of a 200 kV circuit at a current at the discomfort level.
|
|> But not lethal.
|
| I never said it was.
|
| Are you a masochist?
|
| Do you enjoy pain?
|
| What's your point?
If you can't understand it by now, you won't. It's was all about the
subtle implication. I bet a few others did get it. You'll miss out
because I am not going to even read this thread any more, much less
post any more.
|> | What's your point other than you can't seem to convert amps into
|> | microamps?
|
|> I converted _from_ microamps.
|
| Good for you.
|
| Now, do you understand the difference between "painful" and "lethal"?
Different people feel it at different levels. I knew someone that could
grab 120 volts AC, one handed or two handed. I asked him if it hurt.
he said "no, not really ... I can feel it ... but I can keep on holding
it for a long time if I want". About a minute later he let go. He was
not locked on to it or anything. He would also grab the high voltage
wire on an old tube-type black and white TV and not be affected by it.
--
|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
| first name lower case at ipal.net / |
|------------------------------------/-------------------------------------|
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
09 Jun 2007 05:25:02 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
| In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag wrote:
|> |> |> |> |> In alt.engineering.electrical wrote:
|> |> |> |> |> | In sci.physics.electromag CWatters <colin.watters@turnersnospamoak.plus.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> |> "Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
|> |> |> |> |> |> news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
|> |> |> |> |> |> > I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
|> |> |> |> |> |> > varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
|> |> |> |> |> |> > 0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
|> |> |> |> |> |> > fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
|> |> |> |> |> |> > this electric current is 10^-4 volt
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> |> My wet tounge has a resistance of about 9,000 Ohms per linear inch. If a
|> |> |> |> |> |> voltage (limited to 10^-4A) was applied there the current will at best be
|> |> |> |> |> |> 0.1 x 10^-6Amps.
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> | Ignoring Radium's total lack of understanding of Ohm's Law, studies
|> |> |> |> |> | indicate that the threshold of sensation for 60 Hz low voltage, i.e.
|> |> |> |> |> | less that 1000 V, is around 100 microamps.
|> |> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> | By 500 microamps you are well into the "unpleasant" area.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> |> So you would not let yourself be the conductor in a 200,000 volt system
|> |> |> |> |> powering a transformer fed to a 60 watt light bulb?
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | Back in the 60's I maintained things with power supplies that put
|> |> |> |> | out 18 kV at multiple amps.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | My predecessor had an arm roasted off by that crap; he survived, but
|> |> |> |> | barely.
|> |> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> | I go to great lengths to avoid being part of any circuit.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |> But what if all it can deliver is 0.0005 amps?
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | What's your point?
|> |> |
|> |> |> 200000 volts, 0.0005 amps ... can flow through you ... and be converted at
|> |> |> a transformer to run a 100 watt light bulb.
|> |> |
|> |> | What's your point?
|> |
|> |> If you haven't picked up on it by now, something tells me this thread is
|> |> like to go on for a dozen more iterations, or worse.
|> |
|> | Well, let's see...
|> |
|> | My original post was about what research shows to be the current levels
|> | for the threshold of sensation and the level of definite discomfort for
|> | 60 Hz voltages of less than 1000V.
|> |
|> | Since then you've made three inane posts about making one's self a
|> | part of a 200 kV circuit at a current at the discomfort level.
|
|> But not lethal.
|
| I never said it was.
|
| Are you a masochist?
|
| Do you enjoy pain?
|
| What's your point?
If you can't understand it by now, you won't. It's was all about the
subtle implication. I bet a few others did get it. You'll miss out
because I am not going to even read this thread any more, much less
post any more.
You mean the irrelevant point that power, voltage and current are
three separate things that I've purposefully ignored as being
obvious?
Humans sense electricity based purely on current at voltage levels
less than around 1000V.
|> | What's your point other than you can't seem to convert amps into
|> | microamps?
|
|> I converted _from_ microamps.
|
| Good for you.
|
| Now, do you understand the difference between "painful" and "lethal"?
Different people feel it at different levels. I knew someone that could
grab 120 volts AC, one handed or two handed. I asked him if it hurt.
he said "no, not really ... I can feel it ... but I can keep on holding
it for a long time if I want". About a minute later he let go. He was
not locked on to it or anything. He would also grab the high voltage
wire on an old tube-type black and white TV and not be affected by it.
For your edification, a study is where you take a group of people and
determine average values for the average person.
The average person senses current at 100 microamps and is in pain
by 500 microamps.
That some good old boy you met once is seemingly uneffected by
electricity is irrelevant.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.
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| User: "Charles Perry" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
04 Jun 2007 09:32:06 PM |
|
|
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181002686.999283.254160@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Hi:
I am again going to ask a theoretical question. I apologize deeply if
anyone is annoyed.
I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
this electric current is 10^-4 volt [now that's some low-voltage!].
For obvious safety reasons, the path of the current is from the source
to my right hand, to my right arm, to the conductor that's connected
to the ground.
What symptoms would I experience as a result of this electric shock as
the amperage starts of at 0.001 and then smoothly climbs to 0.02 in
about 5 seconds, and then plunges back to 0.001 amps after an
additional 5 seconds pass?
Here is my guess. At 0.001 amps, I feel vibrations bounce in my right
hand up my right arms. As the amperage climbs, the vibrations start to
feel stronger. As the current's strength further increases, these
sensations start to get sharply painful and the muscles from my right
hand to my right arm start stiffen [due to electromuscular
stimulation]. At 0.02 amps, my right hand is stuck to the source and I
cannot move the muscles from my right hand to my right arm. The
effects of the electric shock are most severe in my right hand [where
the current enters] and mildest on my upper right arm [where the
current exits]. As the current's strength decreases, the muscles from
my right hand to right arm loosen, the pain mitigates, and the
vibrations start to weaken. Then, back to 0.001 amps [threshold of
perception]!
Do I guess right?
NO.
Thanks,
Radium
P.S. Is it really possible to have the low-voltage, strong-amperage
current I described? If not, why?
You body has resistance. This does vary during a "shock", starting out high
and getting lower once conduction through the skin in established. At the
voltage you describe you will not break down the skin to cause conduction.
Think about it, you can lay your thumb across a 9v battery and not feel it
at all. You skin resistance varies from several hundred ohms for wet skin
to as high as 500k ohms for dry skin. At .02 amps that is on the order of
20V for the low end and 10,000 volts on the high end. at 10^-4 volts you
get something like 10^-7 amps. Not likely to feel that.
Just remember V = I * R (or close enough in this case).
Charles Perry P.E.
.
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|
| User: "Edward Green" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
05 Jun 2007 11:42:57 AM |
|
|
On Jun 4, 8:18 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
I am again going to ask a theoretical question. I apologize deeply if
anyone is annoyed.
I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly
varies from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at
0.001 amps and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just
fast enough to notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of
this electric current is 10^-4 volt [now that's some low-voltage!].
For obvious safety reasons, the path of the current is from the source
to my right hand, to my right arm, to the conductor that's connected
to the ground.
You've over-specified the problem: once you specify a current path,
you may either specify the resistance (impedance) or the voltage, but
not both. Since you are not free to dial in your arm's resistance
(AFAIK), that should be regarded as given. You cannot also specify the
voltage.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bill Ward" |
|
| Title: Re: Electric shock: strong-current, low-voltage, 60 Hz, AC - possible?? |
04 Jun 2007 08:20:03 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:18:06 +0000, Radium wrote:
Hi:
I am again going to ask a theoretical question. I apologize deeply if
anyone is annoyed.
I am shocked with AC electricity [at 60 Hz] whose amperage smoothly varies
from 0.001 to 0.02 amps [0.001 & 0.02 included], starts of at 0.001 amps
and then smoothly increases to 0.02 amps at a speed just fast enough to
notice - and last but not least, the max voltage of this electric current
is 10^-4 volt [now that's some low-voltage!]. For obvious safety reasons,
the path of the current is from the source to my right hand, to my right
arm, to the conductor that's connected to the ground.
What symptoms would I experience as a result of this electric shock as the
amperage starts of at 0.001 and then smoothly climbs to 0.02 in about 5
seconds, and then plunges back to 0.001 amps after an additional 5 seconds
pass?
Here is my guess. At 0.001 amps, I feel vibrations bounce in my right hand
up my right arms. As the amperage climbs, the vibrations start to feel
stronger. As the current's strength further increases, these sensations
start to get sharply painful and the muscles from my right hand to my
right arm start stiffen [due to electromuscular stimulation]. At 0.02
amps, my right hand is stuck to the source and I cannot move the muscles
from my right hand to my right arm. The effects of the electric shock are
most severe in my right hand [where the current enters] and mildest on my
upper right arm [where the current exits]. As the current's strength
decreases, the muscles from my right hand to right arm loosen, the pain
mitigates, and the vibrations start to weaken. Then, back to 0.001 amps
[threshold of perception]!
Do I guess right?
Thanks,
Radium
P.S. Is it really possible to have the low-voltage, strong-amperage
current I described? If not, why?
Contact resistance through your skin. It's current that's effective.
I'm not sure how much it takes to knock you to your senses.
.
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