E&M Book Suggestions?



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "hetware"
Date: 12 May 2007 10:03:13 PM
Object: E&M Book Suggestions?
Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a clear,
concise and comprehensive way? I have several books on the subject,
including Feynman Vol II, Misner, Thorn and Wheeler (they do give a fairly
extensive treatment of E&M.) Serway is another decent book which covers it
fairly extensively. I probably have 3 dozen books which present Maxwell's
equations, and give some level of explanation. I'm looking for something
that just focuses on the core subject of what Maxwell's equations mean,
preferably from both the 19th and 20th century perspectives (without, and
with relativity), deals with what the wave solutions mean, etc.
I suspect such a book would show Maxwell's equations in both the integral
and differential form on the same page, and discuss the relationship
between them.
--
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/
http://www.germarrudolf.com/
http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/051115chicago.htm
.

User: ""

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 13 May 2007 09:05:32 AM
On 12 mai, 23:03, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a cle=

ar,

concise and comprehensive way? I have several books on the subject,
including Feynman Vol II, Misner, Thorn and Wheeler (they do give a fairly
extensive treatment of E&M.) Serway is another decent book which covers =

it

fairly extensively. I probably have 3 dozen books which present Maxwell's
equations, and give some level of explanation. I'm looking for something
that just focuses on the core subject of what Maxwell's equations mean,
preferably from both the 19th and 20th century perspectives (without, and
with relativity), deals with what the wave solutions mean, etc.

I suspect such a book would show Maxwell's equations in both the integral
and differential form on the same page, and discuss the relationship
between them.

--http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.htmlhttp://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth=

/http://www.germarrudolf.com/http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articl=
es/051115chicago.htm
If you want to dig in deep, "Electromagnetic Theory" by Julius Adams
Stratton. The older the issue you can lay hands on, the better.
For intro, covering both differential and integral forms, "Physics II"
by
Halliday and Resnick, any edition prior to 1990
Andr=E9 Michaud
.
User: "hetware"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 13 May 2007 06:13:09 PM
wrote:

On 12 mai, 23:03, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a
clear,
concise and comprehensive way? I have several books on the subject,
including Feynman Vol II, Misner, Thorn and Wheeler (they do give a
fairly
extensive treatment of E&M.) Serway is another decent book which covers
it
fairly extensively. I probably have 3 dozen books which present
Maxwell's
equations, and give some level of explanation. I'm looking for something
that just focuses on the core subject of what Maxwell's equations mean,
preferably from both the 19th and 20th century perspectives (without, and
with relativity), deals with what the wave solutions mean, etc.

I suspect such a book would show Maxwell's equations in both the integral
and differential form on the same page, and discuss the relationship
between them.

--http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.htmlhttp://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/http://www.germarrudolf.com/http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/051115chicago.htm


If you want to dig in deep, "Electromagnetic Theory" by Julius Adams
Stratton. The older the issue you can lay hands on, the better.

For intro, covering both differential and integral forms, "Physics II"
by
Halliday and Resnick, any edition prior to 1990

André Michaud

Somebody stole my Halliday and Resnick.
--
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/
http://www.germarrudolf.com/
http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/051115chicago.htm
.

User: "Timo A. Nieminen"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 13 May 2007 03:35:10 PM
On Mon, 13 May 2007,
wrote:

On 12 mai, 23:03, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a clear,
concise and comprehensive way?

If you want to dig in deep, "Electromagnetic Theory" by Julius Adams
Stratton. The older the issue you can lay hands on, the better.

There was only the one edition of Stratton. I checked, and IEEE/Wiley have
re-released Stratton, as of January. This is a reprint of the old 1941
edition with a couple of extra forewards, so effectively still only 1
edition.
--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
.
User: ""

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 14 May 2007 09:42:38 AM
On 13 mai, 16:35, "Timo A. Nieminen" <t...@physics.uq.edu.au> wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2007,

wrote:

On 12 mai, 23:03, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a =

clear,

concise and comprehensive way?

If you want to dig in deep, "Electromagnetic Theory" by Julius Adams
Stratton. The older the issue you can lay hands on, the better.


There was only the one edition of Stratton. I checked, and IEEE/Wiley have
re-released Stratton, as of January. This is a reprint of the old 1941
edition with a couple of extra forewards, so effectively still only 1
edition.

--
Timo Nieminen - Home page:http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints:http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits:http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html

Thanks for the info and glad t hear it.

From the uncalled for chopping of I heard the last edition of H&R was

subjected to, I tend to recommend older versions, when not privy
to info such as you are now giving me for the Stratton.
Regards
Andr=E9 Michaud
.



User: "PD"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 14 May 2007 06:59:40 AM
On May 12, 10:03 pm, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a clear,
concise and comprehensive way? I have several books on the subject,
including Feynman Vol II, Misner, Thorn and Wheeler (they do give a fairly
extensive treatment of E&M.) Serway is another decent book which covers it
fairly extensively. I probably have 3 dozen books which present Maxwell's
equations, and give some level of explanation. I'm looking for something
that just focuses on the core subject of what Maxwell's equations mean,
preferably from both the 19th and 20th century perspectives (without, and
with relativity), deals with what the wave solutions mean, etc.

I suspect such a book would show Maxwell's equations in both the integral
and differential form on the same page, and discuss the relationship
between them.

Others have given you excellent recommendations. But the truth of it
is that you'll gain the best understanding of the subject not from one
book but from several. This is how physicists actually learn the
subject, corkscrewing several revolutions through the subject, a
little deeper each time. In this vein, suggest you try
1. Halliday & Resnick
2. Griffiths
3. Jackson
in that order.
PD
.
User: "Bruce Scott TOK"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 15 May 2007 01:26:20 PM

1. Halliday & Resnick
2. Griffiths
3. Jackson

That's the way most people get it, and imho the reason the forest gets
lost for the trees. E&M needs something clean and concise without all
the "engineering" type clutter. And (please) something that introduces
it as a _field theory_ from the very start. Not one which cements the
student with the statics mentality and then has to undo it with the time
dependent field theory part.
The right way to do it is Landau Lifshitz, but I would agree that
(especially nowadays) one would like to see the same order of
introduction in a simpler package. But the order of introduction of the
ideas is the most important thing, and L&L is the only text I've ever
seen get it right.
Field theory, with time dependence first.
Wave propagation and guage symmetry.
Spend lots of time on all the conservation properties, and (if you
can) energy transfer between magnetic and electric energy. Do the
Poynting vector and energy/momentum flux here, not later.
Then do all the statics as a special case, so people really understand
what the (1/c) d/dt << grad limit really means.
Then do the retarded potentials after the student has seen both of the
above.
Jackson's "historical approach" with all the statics first is exactly
the wrong way to do it, even if it makes more sense for engineers (and
our dear universities are invited to stop using physics courses as a
filter for engineers...)
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
.
User: "hetware"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 16 May 2007 05:52:04 AM
Bruce Scott TOK wrote:

1. Halliday & Resnick
2. Griffiths
3. Jackson


That's the way most people get it, and imho the reason the forest gets
lost for the trees. E&M needs something clean and concise without all
the "engineering" type clutter. And (please) something that introduces
it as a _field theory_ from the very start. Not one which cements the
student with the statics mentality and then has to undo it with the time
dependent field theory part.

The right way to do it is Landau Lifshitz, but I would agree that
(especially nowadays) one would like to see the same order of
introduction in a simpler package. But the order of introduction of the
ideas is the most important thing, and L&L is the only text I've ever
seen get it right.

Field theory, with time dependence first.

Wave propagation and guage symmetry.

Spend lots of time on all the conservation properties, and (if you
can) energy transfer between magnetic and electric energy. Do the
Poynting vector and energy/momentum flux here, not later.

I believe you just told me to review what I have read from Feynman, and
finish Vol II.

Then do all the statics as a special case, so people really understand
what the (1/c) d/dt << grad limit really means.

Then do the retarded potentials after the student has seen both of the
above.

Jackson's "historical approach" with all the statics first is exactly
the wrong way to do it, even if it makes more sense for engineers (and
our dear universities are invited to stop using physics courses as a
filter for engineers...)

My observation is that, if you can kill people with it, some one will pay
you for it.
I will probably buy Pauli's book since the price is attractive, it appears
from comments that it is a very good presentation, and it is IIRC, fewer
than 200 pages. That is the kind of thing I was looking for. One of my
goals has been to get a better intuitive grasp of of special relativity
before I spend too much time on E&M. I like to really "feel" the physics
when I study a subject. Knowing how the twiddle symbols and crunch numbers
is all good and well, but I want the kind of understanding that transcends
the math.
--
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/
http://www.germarrudolf.com/
http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/051115chicago.htm
.

User: "Timo A. Nieminen"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 15 May 2007 03:06:33 PM
On Tue, 15 May 2007, Bruce Scott TOK wrote:

1. Halliday & Resnick
2. Griffiths
3. Jackson


That's the way most people get it, and imho the reason the forest gets
lost for the trees. E&M needs something clean and concise without all
the "engineering" type clutter. And (please) something that introduces
it as a _field theory_ from the very start. Not one which cements the
student with the statics mentality and then has to undo it with the time
dependent field theory part.

The right way to do it is Landau Lifshitz, but I would agree that
(especially nowadays) one would like to see the same order of
introduction in a simpler package. But the order of introduction of the
ideas is the most important thing, and L&L is the only text I've ever
seen get it right.

Field theory, with time dependence first.

Wave propagation and guage symmetry.

Spend lots of time on all the conservation properties, and (if you
can) energy transfer between magnetic and electric energy. Do the
Poynting vector and energy/momentum flux here, not later.

Then do all the statics as a special case, so people really understand
what the (1/c) d/dt << grad limit really means.

Then do the retarded potentials after the student has seen both of the
above.

I think that, ideally, conservation properties (in general) belongs in a
"Foundations of field theory" course to be taken before doing EM, quantum
field theory, GR, etc. Why teach it multiple times when you should be able
to teach it once? In practice, one will need to review it multiple times
even if it has already been taught, but I think still worthwhile. Why not
teach this stuff (briefly, and introductorily) in the course where
students are first taught Hamiltonian/Lagrangean methods in classical
mechanics?
Anyway, basics of field theory, conservation properties first. This should
include gauge symmetry, retarded potentials (why do you suggest leaving
retarded potentials until later?), special relativity, etc.
Follow with a brief coverage of the general time-dependent case, but this
must be brief since there is so little that can be done short of
computational methods. The special case of time-harmonic time-dependence
should be left until later since it's really a time-independent special
case. I cover this after electro/magneto-statics, since electrostatics
gives a simpler introduction to Green function methods, separation of
variables, images, etc.
Then the "engineering" stuff. This can't be left out if it's to be a
respectable and useful EM course. I don't like the way it's usually done,
with an emphasis on memorising a selection of Mickey Mouse problems for
the final exam - if a problem is easy enough to do on the final exam, then
you don't need to be able to do it; you can look it up in a textbook. I am
experimenting on students by giving them problems that take them 4 days (I
was trying for 2-3, but they manage to stretch the time).
The math behind the most common computational methods needs to be done, so
that ex-students will understand something about what computational EM is,
what CEM can and cannot do for them, etc.

Jackson's "historical approach" with all the statics first is exactly
the wrong way to do it, even if it makes more sense for engineers (and
our dear universities are invited to stop using physics courses as a
filter for engineers...)

--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
.


User: ""

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 14 May 2007 09:51:26 AM
On 14 mai, 07:59, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:

On May 12, 10:03 pm, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a c=

lear,

concise and comprehensive way? I have several books on the subject,
including Feynman Vol II, Misner, Thorn and Wheeler (they do give a fai=

rly

extensive treatment of E&M.) Serway is another decent book which cover=

s it

fairly extensively. I probably have 3 dozen books which present Maxwel=

l's

equations, and give some level of explanation. I'm looking for somethi=

ng

that just focuses on the core subject of what Maxwell's equations mean,
preferably from both the 19th and 20th century perspectives (without, a=

nd

with relativity), deals with what the wave solutions mean, etc.


I suspect such a book would show Maxwell's equations in both the integr=

al

and differential form on the same page, and discuss the relationship
between them.


Others have given you excellent recommendations. But the truth of it
is that you'll gain the best understanding of the subject not from one
book but from several. This is how physicists actually learn the
subject, corkscrewing several revolutions through the subject, a
little deeper each time. In this vein, suggest you try
1. Halliday & Resnick
2. Griffiths
3. Jackson
in that order.

PD

Absolute agreement.
In this line of reasoning, I also recommend
"University Physics" by Sears Zermansky and Young,
published by Addison Wesley
I also like "University Physics" by Harris Benson, Wiley&Sons
Andr=E9 Michaud
.
User: "hetware"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 14 May 2007 01:49:30 PM
wrote:

Absolute agreement.

In this line of reasoning, I also recommend
"University Physics" by Sears Zermansky and Young,
published by Addison Wesley

That was in the same box as H&R when the box was stolen.

I also like "University Physics" by Harris Benson, Wiley&Sons

André Michaud

I have read a few developments of E&M. For example, that found in Joos's
_Theoretical_ _Physics_ , Menzel's _Mathematical_ _Physics_ and all of
Feynman Vol I[*], as well as several chapters of Vol II, which I am
currently working through. Though Jackson is probably well worth reading,
it is not the book I am looking for right now. Perhaps reading Maxwell's
original paper will address much of what I am interested in.
What I am trying to remedy is the fact that, although I can go through the
math describing E&M, and I have read formal developments of all pieces of
the theory, I don't have a good integrated understanding. The suggestion
of Pauli's book is the one I am most likely to follow up on.
[*] Vol I does not deal with Maxwell's equations, per se. It does, however
present a good deal of material on radiation.
--
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/
http://www.germarrudolf.com/
http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articles/051115chicago.htm
.
User: ""

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 15 May 2007 10:32:19 AM
On 14 mai, 14:49, hetware <massl...@nutrino.none> wrote:

s...@microtec.net wrote:

Absolute agreement.


In this line of reasoning, I also recommend
"University Physics" by Sears Zermansky and Young,
published by Addison Wesley


That was in the same box as H&R when the box was stolen.

I also like "University Physics" by Harris Benson, Wiley&Sons


Andr=E9 Michaud


I have read a few developments of E&M. For example, that found in Joos's
_Theoretical_ _Physics_ , Menzel's _Mathematical_ _Physics_ and all of
Feynman Vol I[*], as well as several chapters of Vol II, which I am
currently working through. Though Jackson is probably well worth reading,
it is not the book I am looking for right now. Perhaps reading Maxwell's
original paper will address much of what I am interested in.

What I am trying to remedy is the fact that, although I can go through the
math describing E&M, and I have read formal developments of all pieces of
the theory, I don't have a good integrated understanding. The suggestion
of Pauli's book is the one I am most likely to follow up on.

[*] Vol I does not deal with Maxwell's equations, per se. It does, howev=

er

present a good deal of material on radiation.
--http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.htmlhttp://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth=

/http://www.germarrudolf.com/http://www.ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/articl=
es/051115chicago.htm
I have heard very good comments more than once about Griffith's book,
although I have not read it myself. It possibly would be the book that
will
allow you final integration.
Andr=E9 Michaud
.




User: "Timo A. Nieminen"

Title: Re: E&M Book Suggestions? 12 May 2007 11:33:47 PM
On Sat, 12 May 2007, hetware wrote:

Is there any book on theoretical E&M which pulls it all together in a clear,
concise and comprehensive way? I have several books on the subject,
including Feynman Vol II, Misner, Thorn and Wheeler (they do give a fairly
extensive treatment of E&M.) Serway is another decent book which covers it
fairly extensively. I probably have 3 dozen books which present Maxwell's
equations, and give some level of explanation. I'm looking for something
that just focuses on the core subject of what Maxwell's equations mean,
preferably from both the 19th and 20th century perspectives (without, and
with relativity), deals with what the wave solutions mean, etc.

For concise, Pauli, Electrodynamics, a cheap Dover edition. It's a quite
good book, as well as short. Gaussian units. IIRC, Pauli covers stuff in
the "historical" order, ie electrostatics, magnetostatics, then the
Maxwell equations.
For clear and comprehensive, I like Stratton. I heard a rumour that it's
going to be back in print soon. SI units. It's an old book, and covers
hollow conducting microwave waveguides as cutting edge stuff. Stratton
starts from Maxwell, both integral and differential (iirc, not on the same
page, but ...), has a good discussion of what the constitutive equations
mean, and so on. A lot of space is devoted to a somewhat old-fashioned
treatment of the small number of problems with analytical solutions, but
that isn't necessarily a bad thing if you want to understand what it all
means, rather than just pull some numbers out of the computer.
It's been a while since I looked at it, but I recall Eyges as being quite
good. Also Dover and cheap. This might be a good compromise between
concise and comprehensive.
The 3 classics other than Stratton deserve mention. Jackson is
comprehensive, but famous for being difficult. Even more comprehensive
(though less focus on particles) are the 2 volumes of Landau & Lifshitz
that cover EM. Clear in their own way, but not for the average reader -
even more famous for being difficult than Jackson. Finally, there is
Griffiths, the most comprehensive introductory book on the topic I've
seen. If you value clear the most, maybe this is the one for you.
On the other hand, to see what they (ie Maxwell, wave solutions) mean, you
could do worse than to do visualisations of computational solutions.
That's an entirely different game.
--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
.


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