| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Thor" |
| Date: |
03 Jan 2006 04:26:45 PM |
| Object: |
Energy Bands in Organic Matter? |
Energy bands occur in crystals due to the atoms being closer together
nulling
the potential energy between them and turning the discrete level of
each atom
orbital into energy bands with discrete energy to obey Pauli exclusion
principle.
Now I'd like to ask if there is anything in living tissues which has
this energy
band property of crystals. I'm evaluating the works of Hameroff,
Penrose, Frohlich,
etc. who state that the crystalline properties of the body such as
microtubules and
even connective tissues act like crystals and even semiconductors as
far as
energy banding is concerned. True?
Thor
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
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| Title: Re: Energy Bands in Organic Matter? |
03 Jan 2006 11:16:26 PM |
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On 1/3/06 2:26 PM, in article
1136327205.009402.247160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Thor"
<thorborne@hotmail.com> wrote:
Energy bands occur in crystals due to the atoms being closer together
nulling
the potential energy between them and turning the discrete level of
each atom
orbital into energy bands with discrete energy to obey Pauli exclusion
principle.
Now I'd like to ask if there is anything in living tissues which has
this energy
band property of crystals. I'm evaluating the works of Hameroff,
Penrose, Frohlich,
etc. who state that the crystalline properties of the body such as
microtubules and
even connective tissues act like crystals and even semiconductors as
far as
energy banding is concerned. True?
Thor
There is nothing magical about crystals that causes energy bands to appear.
The same will be true for amorphous solids, ore even liquids.
In one of Richard Feynman's classes I attended, he gave the problem of
finding the energy levels for a string of atoms that coupled to nearest
neighbors by the same coupling strength. It turns out that this coupling
splits the energy levels for the strings in such a way that resembles energy
bands. If you follow through on the math, you get the same effect even if
the couplings between the atoms are not all equal. This corresponds to an
amorphous substance, but the bands still persist.
The periodicity of a crystal, however, leads to high mobility. Nonuniform
coupling leads to scattering (Born effect).
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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| User: "Andy Resnick" |
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| Title: Re: Energy Bands in Organic Matter? |
04 Jan 2006 07:50:52 AM |
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Thor wrote:
Energy bands occur in crystals due to the atoms being closer together
nulling
the potential energy between them and turning the discrete level of
each atom
orbital into energy bands with discrete energy to obey Pauli exclusion
principle.
Now I'd like to ask if there is anything in living tissues which has
this energy
band property of crystals. I'm evaluating the works of Hameroff,
Penrose, Frohlich,
etc. who state that the crystalline properties of the body such as
microtubules and
even connective tissues act like crystals and even semiconductors as
far as
energy banding is concerned. True?
I'm not familiar with the works you mention, but structural elements of
the mammalian cell (microtubules, actin fibers, intermediate filaments)
while at one level have an extremely regular construction, the 'atoms'
that are used to construct these large structures are themselves very
massive proteins. Therfore, the relevant energy scale needs to be
adjusted accordingly- rather than look for eV-scale electronic energy
bands, I suspect any energy banding effect would occur at very low
frequencies (micro-eV or lower) and would probably be washed out by
thermal excitations. Carbon nanotubes are significantly smaller than
microtubules, and already semiconductor-like properties barely occur, AFAIK.
Moving out to larger tissue superstructures (bones, muscles, etc), one
cannot help but notice the crystalline-like regularity, but continuing
to use the analogy with atomic crystals would be marginally useful at best.
That said, bones and teeth are piezoelectric, just like some crystals.
--
Andrew Resnick, Ph.D.
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Case Western Reserve University
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| User: "Thor" |
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| Title: Re: Energy Bands in Organic Matter? |
04 Jan 2006 04:04:24 PM |
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Andy Resnick wrote:
Thor wrote:
Energy bands occur in crystals due to the atoms being closer together
nulling
the potential energy between them and turning the discrete level of
each atom
orbital into energy bands with discrete energy to obey Pauli exclusion
principle.
Now I'd like to ask if there is anything in living tissues which has
this energy
band property of crystals. I'm evaluating the works of Hameroff,
Penrose, Frohlich,
etc. who state that the crystalline properties of the body such as
microtubules and
even connective tissues act like crystals and even semiconductors as
far as
energy banding is concerned. True?
I'm not familiar with the works you mention, but structural elements of
the mammalian cell (microtubules, actin fibers, intermediate filaments)
while at one level have an extremely regular construction, the 'atoms'
that are used to construct these large structures are themselves very
massive proteins. Therfore, the relevant energy scale needs to be
adjusted accordingly- rather than look for eV-scale electronic energy
bands, I suspect any energy banding effect would occur at very low
frequencies (micro-eV or lower) and would probably be washed out by
thermal excitations. Carbon nanotubes are significantly smaller than
microtubules, and already semiconductor-like properties barely occur, AFAIK.
Moving out to larger tissue superstructures (bones, muscles, etc), one
cannot help but notice the crystalline-like regularity, but continuing
to use the analogy with atomic crystals would be marginally useful at best.
That said, bones and teeth are piezoelectric, just like some crystals.
--
Andrew Resnick, Ph.D.
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Case Western Reserve University
I read that in crystals, the electrostatic potential between them can't
be zero. Does that mean in wood, it is zero. How come in a lattice,
atoms are closer together. In a wood, why can't the atoms get closer
together since it's all wood?
About biological materials. So it basically means the electrostatic
potential between atoms are all zero. Hence no real crystal like
energy band effect? Can one use this potential null thing as basis to
judge whether a material has crystal like properties or not.
Thor
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| User: "Andy Resnick" |
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| Title: Re: Energy Bands in Organic Matter? |
05 Jan 2006 07:59:25 AM |
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Thor wrote:
I read that in crystals, the electrostatic potential between them can't
be zero. Does that mean in wood, it is zero. How come in a lattice,
atoms are closer together. In a wood, why can't the atoms get closer
together since it's all wood?
About biological materials. So it basically means the electrostatic
potential between atoms are all zero. Hence no real crystal like
energy band effect? Can one use this potential null thing as basis to
judge whether a material has crystal like properties or not.
Sorry, but I just can't parse what you are trying to say here.
--
Andrew Resnick, Ph.D.
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Case Western Reserve University
.
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