Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "habshi"
Date: 03 Aug 2005 12:11:40 PM
Object: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA
Jim try and say something useful in this thread except the usual islamic moaning and
whingeing. Just as a sail can tack into an oncoming wind , why cant these planes do the same to get
the energy to stay afloat forever?
excerpt
European efforts
In 2000, the Belgian Flemish Institute for Technological Research (Vito) set up the Pegasus project.
Pegasus (Policy support for European Governments by Acquisition of information from Satellite and
UAV-borne Sensors) was designed to spearhead Europe's development of solar-powered UAVs that can
stay airborne for long periods.

Mercator: The craft has a wingspan of 16m
"One of these craft could get anywhere in the world in 24 hours," explains Dr Rogoyski.
"A UAV will be able to keep up over a particular part of the world for months at a time, whereas
satellites have to continue travelling in orbit."
Precise, high-quality images and data can be sent back in under 30 minutes to a mobile ground
station which can then disseminate images online.
But for a solar eternal plane to be exactly that it needs an efficient energy harvesting, conversion
and storage system that will work when the Sun has set.
"We use a lightweight solar array coupled to lithium-based rechargeable batteries. They are
incorporated into the carbon fibre airframe which gives us a low-mass structure capable of flying at
high altitude," says Dr Davey.
The challenge is to make the craft as light as possible, carrying payloads of 2kg, while making it
robust enough to withstand the extreme conditions it has to navigate. Temperatures at the altitudes
UAVs fly drop to 50 degrees below zero.
Based on computer modelling, the craft QinetiQ has developed thus far could complete a day-night
cycle. It would use solar power during the day, while recharging the batteries, which would then
provide enough "juice" to fly at night.
It seems straightforward, but it is only the improved efficiencies in solar cell and battery
technologies, even over the last year, that has made this at all possible.

The light weight is achieved by using paper-thin solar panels
"The key technologies are solar cells and batteries. Battery technology is receiving billions
worldwide and it is a very rapidly evolving technology," says Dr Rogoyski.
The solar panels on the craft are paper thin and deformable so they hug the surface of the plane
itself, cutting out excess material.
Initial tests on a 40% scale model of the QinetiQ Mercator UAV have proved successful.
"The technology we have right now will enable us to stay up in the air for 60 hours, but we will not
be trying that tomorrow," says Dr Davey. "Trials are planned for next year."
By then, Dr Davey expects improvements in battery efficiency of about 20%.
.

User: "Mr Clarke"

Title: Re: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA 03 Aug 2005 04:17:04 PM
Considering its -50.C at that altitude but with 50% more sunshine, the
temperature
difference seems ideal for sterling generators (rather than solar).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ashley Clarke
-------------------------------------------------------
"habshi" <habshi@anony.net> wrote in message
news:42f0f61d.10074701@news.clara.net...

Jim try and say something useful in this thread except the usual islamic

moaning and

whingeing. Just as a sail can tack into an oncoming wind , why cant these

planes do the same to get

the energy to stay afloat forever?

excerpt
European efforts

In 2000, the Belgian Flemish Institute for Technological Research (Vito)

set up the Pegasus project.



Pegasus (Policy support for European Governments by Acquisition of

information from Satellite and

UAV-borne Sensors) was designed to spearhead Europe's development of

solar-powered UAVs that can

stay airborne for long periods.


Mercator: The craft has a wingspan of 16m
"One of these craft could get anywhere in the world in 24 hours," explains

Dr Rogoyski.


"A UAV will be able to keep up over a particular part of the world for

months at a time, whereas

satellites have to continue travelling in orbit."

Precise, high-quality images and data can be sent back in under 30 minutes

to a mobile ground

station which can then disseminate images online.

But for a solar eternal plane to be exactly that it needs an efficient

energy harvesting, conversion

and storage system that will work when the Sun has set.

"We use a lightweight solar array coupled to lithium-based rechargeable

batteries. They are

incorporated into the carbon fibre airframe which gives us a low-mass

structure capable of flying at

high altitude," says Dr Davey.

The challenge is to make the craft as light as possible, carrying payloads

of 2kg, while making it

robust enough to withstand the extreme conditions it has to navigate.

Temperatures at the altitudes

UAVs fly drop to 50 degrees below zero.

Based on computer modelling, the craft QinetiQ has developed thus far

could complete a day-night

cycle. It would use solar power during the day, while recharging the

batteries, which would then

provide enough "juice" to fly at night.

It seems straightforward, but it is only the improved efficiencies in

solar cell and battery

technologies, even over the last year, that has made this at all possible.


The light weight is achieved by using paper-thin solar panels
"The key technologies are solar cells and batteries. Battery technology is

receiving billions

worldwide and it is a very rapidly evolving technology," says Dr Rogoyski.

The solar panels on the craft are paper thin and deformable so they hug

the surface of the plane

itself, cutting out excess material.

Initial tests on a 40% scale model of the QinetiQ Mercator UAV have proved

successful.


"The technology we have right now will enable us to stay up in the air for

60 hours, but we will not

be trying that tomorrow," says Dr Davey. "Trials are planned for next

year."


By then, Dr Davey expects improvements in battery efficiency of about 20%.




.
User: ""

Title: Re: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA 03 Aug 2005 08:30:53 PM
In sci.physics Mr Clarke <news@ashley-clarke.com> wrote:

Considering its -50.C at that altitude but with 50% more sunshine, the
temperature
difference seems ideal for sterling generators (rather than solar).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ashley Clarke
-------------------------------------------------------

What temperature difference?
It is cold everywhere at altitude.
<snip habshi babble rehash>
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.


User: ""

Title: Re: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA 03 Aug 2005 03:56:22 PM
In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.net> wrote:

Jim try and say something useful in this thread except the usual islamic moaning and
whingeing. Just as a sail can tack into an oncoming wind , why cant these planes do the same to get
the energy to stay afloat forever?

Idiot.
<snip UAV crap>
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.

User: "Mark Fergerson"

Title: Re: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA 04 Aug 2005 10:42:07 AM
habshi wrote:


Jim try and say something useful in this thread except the usual islamic moaning and
whingeing. Just as a sail can tack into an oncoming wind , why cant these planes do the same to get
the energy to stay afloat forever?

Who's Jim?
Sailboats can tack because they operate in the interface between
two media, air and water. They get energy from wind, but they also
have keels that provide resistance against the water they're
immersed in. They can therefore exploit the vector difference
between wind direction and keel resistance to tack into the wind
(assuming the pilot knows what he/she is doing). Aircraft operate in
one medium only with no vector difference to exploit.

excerpt
European efforts

Where's the alleged part about "watching over the USA"?
Wassamatter, can't they afford actual satellites?
And where does Islam come into this, other than the fact that
Islam hasn't invented anything for a very long time?
Mark L. Fergerson
.
User: "Edward Green"

Title: Re: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA 10 Aug 2005 12:15:15 AM
Mark Fergerson wrote:

habshi wrote:


Jim try and say something useful in this thread except the usual islamic moaning and
whingeing. Just as a sail can tack into an oncoming wind , why cant these planes do the same to get
the energy to stay afloat forever?


Who's Jim?

Sailboats can tack because they operate in the interface between
two media, air and water. They get energy from wind, but they also
have keels that provide resistance against the water they're
immersed in. They can therefore exploit the vector difference
between wind direction and keel resistance to tack into the wind
(assuming the pilot knows what he/she is doing). Aircraft operate in
one medium only with no vector difference to exploit.

You know, tacking is one of the things I never could quite grok: no,
don't bother to explain it -- I'm perfectly capable of working out the
vector diagrams myself. I just mean, no matter how long I thought
about them, they never became second nature, and on each fresh approach
to the subject I must start from scratch. I do recall that there is
some similar mental dislocation in the behavior of polarized light --
repeated vector resolution can seemingly create components out of
nothing.

excerpt
European efforts


Where's the alleged part about "watching over the USA"?
Wassamatter, can't they afford actual satellites?

And where does Islam come into this, other than the fact that
Islam hasn't invented anything for a very long time?

Right -- even religious intolerance and inciting to violence. They are
just reversing the roles of 500 years ago when the arabs were
preserving ancient culture while the Europeans were burning witches.
.
User: "Mark Fergerson"

Title: Re: Europeans to make eternal planes to watch over the USA 18 Aug 2005 11:09:59 AM
Edward Green wrote:

Mark Fergerson wrote:

habshi wrote:

Jim try and say something useful in this thread except the usual islamic moaning and
whingeing. Just as a sail can tack into an oncoming wind , why cant these planes do the same to get
the energy to stay afloat forever?


Who's Jim?

Sailboats can tack because they operate in the interface between
two media, air and water. They get energy from wind, but they also
have keels that provide resistance against the water they're
immersed in. They can therefore exploit the vector difference
between wind direction and keel resistance to tack into the wind
(assuming the pilot knows what he/she is doing). Aircraft operate in
one medium only with no vector difference to exploit.

You know, tacking is one of the things I never could quite grok: no,
don't bother to explain it -- I'm perfectly capable of working out the
vector diagrams myself. I just mean, no matter how long I thought
about them, they never became second nature, and on each fresh approach
to the subject I must start from scratch. I do recall that there is
some similar mental dislocation in the behavior of polarized light --
repeated vector resolution can seemingly create components out of
nothing.

IMNSHO it's a matter of concretizing abstract concepts; in the
case of tacking, it's best to go sailing so your intuition has a
chance to get a handle on it. I'm sure the first person to discover
it was badly unsettled by the "counterintuitive" aspect. There are
any number of other physical activities that express such
counterintuitive physics as well. Me, I've never actually been
sailing, but surfing in a crosswind was pretty close.
Hey, remember the conservation of linear vs angular momentum
experiment with the swivel chair some time ago? That's the kind of
concretizing I meant.

excerpt
European efforts


Where's the alleged part about "watching over the USA"?
Wassamatter, can't they afford actual satellites?

And where does Islam come into this, other than the fact that
Islam hasn't invented anything for a very long time?

Right -- even religious intolerance and inciting to violence. They are
just reversing the roles of 500 years ago when the arabs were
preserving ancient culture while the Europeans were burning witches.

Yep. I still say Islam desperately needs its own Martin Luther,
or at least a Jonathan Swift; Rushdie is a start but they want to
kill him instead of listening to him.
Mark L. Fergerson
.




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